Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Let’s take a look at his managerial career then.
He had a poor time at Cardiff and then moved on to Molde where he won 2 league titles with a team that had never won a title in their history. Whiles going into the knockout stages of the Europa league with an unfancied molde side. His managerial career isn’t great . But he has basically had one failed stint in his entire career. So what are you on about? Talking about how badly he has done in his managerial career. Was molde not part of his managerial career?

Yeah the fact you can't even be bothered to look up some stats...

He won with Molde yes, in the Norwegian league, so then Cardiff thought wow okay he's obviously quite good let's give him a chan- oh nope relegation, then they bought him virtually a load of new players of his choice for virtually his own starting 11 and he had them in relegation form before they sacked him, then he went back to Molde for 3/4 seasons and won nothing, infact they got better as a team after he left to join us and the won the league title

He isn't a good manager, you just can't face up to it.
 
Well said it seems every fan other than our very own are able to appropriately assess our current average manager.
Every opposition fan and pundit wants Solskjaer gone.

That tells you everything.

The media is VERY quiet when Solskjaer wins and is very quick to back Lampard now that his back is against the wall.

It's like they're afraid we are gonna roll in to top four if they admit that Solskjaer isn't the mug they're making him out to be.

It's obvious to anyone that we had a player problem. Solskjaer has shown incredible guts and selflessness and a ruthless streak in getting rid of some GOOD players that could have offered us some cover this season. There are few if any managers that I've ever seen strip a club to the bare bones the way Solskjaer has done. Everyone on redcafe, the media, and former players constantly complained that our players were overpaid and not good enough. Solskjaer has set about changing that and we are still complaining because (??)

I wouldn't swap having seen Greenwood, Williams and McTominay become the players they have done for any set of three players in England. The slow improvement we are seeing in the team is really amazing to follow and we have been a bit unlucky if anything this season to be in the position we are in due to injuries and missed penalties stalling our season.

Why you would swap our manager now when we finally seem to have a plan - I get it, but I will 100% back Solskjaer another season. He's doing the right things and the pressure he's done it under shows that he's better than we are giving him credit for
 
It doesn't answer anything. A manager directing his wide players tucking in (and fullbacks over lapping) or wide players stating wide are standard common tactical approaches and switch between them is par for course too. Kudos to him for doing that of course but it's hardly a pointer to managerial excellence which sadly has not been on display for most of his managerial career at United.

At the end of the day, it just seems apparent that he's just a decent manager. And decent isn't what I imagine we want at Manchester United. All the talk of it being a 'process' is, like it was under LVG, just rhetoric to buy him more time.

I don't doubt that Ole isn't a football dunce. Of course he's not sitting there doing feck while in the job. He has experience in football and it trying what he knows and feels to be right. But I don't believe he's displayed genuine excellence as a manager here. And until he does he will not be the man for the job for me. It's just like people who are somewhat completent and knowledgeable at their job tend not to become the CEO of Google. You can make a case for them knowing a fair bit about their field. But they're not going to compete with the absolute best for it.

We've gone so far down in expectations that basic managerial traits are seen as a sign of genius.
 
If Ole fixes our set pieces defending
and improves the team tactically
and improves the consistency of our players
and make us win more games against smaller clubs
and while still maintaining the record against the top four
and bring more quality players to help achieve all those above during the transfer window
then indeed We have a very good manager in our hands.

if he learns to drive, we have a very good driver in our hands.
 
We've gone so far down in expectations that basic managerial traits are seen as a sign of genius.

Who are actually the ones with unrealistic expectations though?

It's a common theme among football fans. You know which clubs sets of fans had expectations of getting in the top four this season and considered them realistic in August? Everton, Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Leicester and Chelsea.

Generally I don't think many Man Utd fans seriously thought we'd make top four this season with the squad we had. We all considered it a rebuild job, and that's what it has been.
 
Who are actually the ones with unrealistic expectations though?

It's a common theme among football fans. You know which clubs sets of fans had expectations of getting in the top four this season and considered them realistic in August? Everton, Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Leicester and Chelsea.

Generally I don't think many Man Utd fans seriously thought we'd make top four this season with the squad we had. We all considered it a rebuild job, and that's what it has been.

So....when can we expect trophies? Like most other top clubs expects?
 
Who are actually the ones with unrealistic expectations though?

It's a common theme among football fans. You know which clubs sets of fans had expectations of getting in the top four this season and considered them realistic in August? Everton, Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Leicester and Chelsea.

Generally I don't think many Man Utd fans seriously thought we'd make top four this season with the squad we had. We all considered it a rebuild job, and that's what it has been.

Rubbish. Most people before the season started agreed Chelsea were fecked with the transfer ban, losing Hazard etc. People are just moving the goal posts now to suit their agenda. Also you're having a laugh if people thought teams like Leicester and Everton had as much of a chance to get into the top 4 as us before the season started.
 
Rubbish. Most people before the season started agreed Chelsea were fecked with the transfer ban, losing Hazard etc. People are just moving the goal posts now to suit their agenda. Also you're having a laugh if people thought teams like Leicester and Everton had as much of a chance to get into the top 4 as us before the season started.

Genuinely believed Leicester had a better sqaud than us at the start of the season man for man even after we took Maguire

Thought the same of Arsenal Tottenham and Everton too.

Did you think we had a better squad than any of those teams at the start of the season???????
 
he went back to Molde and did what? Finished 2nd,3rd and 5th. Let me guess;
Building for the future?
It was 5th, 3rd and 2nd. Progression. When he returned to Molde he made a great run in Europa League, with the result that many of the best Molde players got attractive to bigger clubs, plus the captain and club legend Hestad retired. So: yes, he had to start a rebuilt. Bought young, promising players, that made progression every season:, 5-3-2-and the 1 this season. (Gold for the new manager, built on Oles work).
(greetings from Molde, putting some context in the numbers)
 
Rubbish. Most people before the season started agreed Chelsea were fecked with the transfer ban, losing Hazard etc. People are just moving the goal posts now to suit their agenda. Also you're having a laugh if people thought teams like Leicester and Everton had as much of a chance to get into the top 4 as us before the season started.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/expectations-for-2019-2020-season.448292/

So....when can we expect trophies? Like most other top clubs expects?

All you said in the above thread was a "fix of first 11 and a fix of formation" as your expectation and that's what we got

We are still in the Europa League and FA cup last I checked so a lot of people's predictions (of a quarter final exit generally!!!) are still on the cards, interestingly.

Are you not more optimistic for next season, assuming we sign 1-2 more players? We should have a pretty god damn strong squad by then

and it's weird to think that going in to 20/21 we will have no more Young, Fellaini, Lukaku, Valencia, Darmian or whoever else to complain about

Edit:. Fixed link
 
Last edited:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/expectations-for-2019-2020-season.448292/



All you said in the above thread was a "fix of first 11 and a fix of formation" as your expectation and that's what we got

We are still in the Europa League and FA cup last I checked so a lot of people's predictions (of a quarter final exit generally!!!) are still on the cards, interestingly.

Are you not more optimistic for next season, assuming we sign 1-2 more players? We should have a pretty god damn strong squad by then

and it's weird to think that going in to 20/21 we will have no more Young, Fellaini, Lukaku, Valencia, Darmian or whoever else to complain about

Edit:. Fixed link

I didnt say anything. I'm asking
 
A question for those of you still Ole in: If he gets a good squad together in two years or so, with results being so-so along the way (let's say hovering around 3rd-6th. Do you think that he'd be the guy to get the best performances out of said squad, based on what we've seen from him tactically so far?
 
It was 5th, 3rd and 2nd. Progression. When he returned to Molde he made a great run in Europa League, with the result that many of the best Molde players got attractive to bigger clubs, plus the captain and club legend Hestad retired. So: yes, he had to start a rebuilt. Bought young, promising players, that made progression every season:, 5-3-2-and the 1 this season. (Gold for the new manager, built on Oles work).
(greetings from Molde, putting some context in the numbers)

Dont bother. Interwebz is no place to let facts get in the way of hysteria. Norway is a shite league. He went back after a failure in England and didn't immediately win the league with a record tally at Molde ergo Ole is an incompetent manager.
 
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/expectations-for-2019-2020-season.448292/



All you said in the above thread was a "fix of first 11 and a fix of formation" as your expectation and that's what we got

We are still in the Europa League and FA cup last I checked so a lot of people's predictions (of a quarter final exit generally!!!) are still on the cards, interestingly.

Are you not more optimistic for next season, assuming we sign 1-2 more players? We should have a pretty god damn strong squad by then

and it's weird to think that going in to 20/21 we will have no more Young, Fellaini, Lukaku, Valencia, Darmian or whoever else to complain about

Edit:. Fixed link

That thread was about expectations going into the season. Expectations going into a season have far more to do than simply just the squad. A lot of people not having much faith in our manager, who had a diabolical end to the season, also would have played a part in that, for example. Teams like Chelsea had the transfer ban and lost their best player, Tottenham were expected to spend even less due to the whole stadium thing, Arsenal were Arsenal etc.

Expectations going into this season wasn't to be a single point above fecking Sheffield United at this stage of the season.

Also to suggest that Leicester, who finished 9th and supposedly sold us their best CB were going to comfortably be in the top 4, is rubbish. They are were they are due to great coaching.
 
A question for those of you still Ole in: If he gets a good squad together in two years or so, with results being so-so along the way (let's say hovering around 3rd-6th. Do you think that he'd be the guy to get the best performances out of said squad, based on what we've seen from him tactically so far?

It's really difficult to say. You're judging him against Guardiola and Klopp. Who on planet earth is anywhere near their level?

It's my belief that although there's a chance we can do better than Ole, most managers would do -worse-. Literally no other manager has taken points from Liverpool.

You can take the hipster route and say Nagelsmann or whoever could or would do better but it's really hard to say. Manchester United is a strange club.

Someone once opined to me (a Villa board member) that Moyes would either raise himself to Man Utds standards or lower the clubs standard to everton, that he would either grow into the role or simply change the role to lower than he was

I feel that Solskjaer is growing into the role in a way Moyes never did and given the pressure and bullshit he has had to deal with that nobody else seems to have faced despite having similar shit seasons (Arteta won 3 out of 9 games and somehow gets a pass from the media despite them being shocking quite often, Solskjaer won 14/14 and was passed over as a 'honeymoon)

It's a lot of brainwashing by the media. Lots of struggling teams but they ignore oles successes and focus on individual defeats (some of which unfortunate)
 
Also to suggest that Leicester, who finished 9th and supposedly sold us their best CB were going to comfortably be in the top 4, is rubbish. They are were they are due to great coaching.

My feeling was that without European football to worry about they could focus on the league and have a wolves-like season.
 
A question for those of you still Ole in: If he gets a good squad together in two years or so, with results being so-so along the way (let's say hovering around 3rd-6th. Do you think that he'd be the guy to get the best performances out of said squad, based on what we've seen from him tactically so far?
No, if he gets at least 3 signings this summer, he is expected to compete in the top 3 position next season. Can't be 4th position or worse.
 
Jiust hope we can get some momentum now. Ole go or stay is talked about all the time. Not going to happen before the summer so let's focus on the present.

Will be interesting to see how he fits in Pogba and Bruno in the same team.
 
Genuinely believed Leicester had a better sqaud than us at the start of the season man for man even after we took Maguire

Thought the same of Arsenal Tottenham and Everton too.

Did you think we had a better squad than any of those teams at the start of the season???????
We did. And the consensus here was that we had a better squad than Chelsea as well. It's just that people are conveniently (not you ) changing their tune given he's performed poorly.
 
No, if he gets at least 3 signings this summer, he is expected to compete in the top 3 position next season. Can't be 4th position or worse.


Mate, if this rebuild is actually a thing and they're backing him with 3 first-teamers this summer (plus Fernandes) I expect him to challenge for the title next season. Simple as that. It's been a one-horse race this season, you cannot tell me that with another £150m or so that Ole should not be expected to finish above Leicester City next season, especially with City in turmoil - Top 2, 3rd at the very worst.
 
Mate, if this rebuild is actually a thing and they're backing him with 3 first-teamers this summer (plus Fernandes) I expect him to challenge for the title next season. Simple as that. It's been a one-horse race this season, you cannot tell me that with another £150m or so that Ole should not be expected to finish above Leicester City next season, especially with City in turmoil - Top 2, 3rd at the very worst.
Not too sure about that, we know we need a striker, but will he be first choice or more of a understudy to Martial is not clear, midfield we hope we get someone who can be slotted in right away. Only right winger we would definitely be signing a first choice because we don't have anyone permanent there now.

Yes we have spent a lot, but we have sold quite alot of players and is expected to sell more this year. We have spend a net of around 125 million under Ole till now and is expected to spend another net of 100 million this year (our signings minus sales of Pogba, Smalling, Lingard, Pereira). Total about 225 million.

My expectations for Ole this season, is very simple, get us Champions league, whether it's through 4th/5th place, or winning the Europa league, either one is ok.

Next season, agree with you, we should challenge for the premier league, however beating a very good and consistent Liverpool won't be easy. Top 2 finish is great, top 3 with only few points difference is still somewhat acceptable. As for champions league, we expect to go at least till the quarter finals.
 
Every opposition fan and pundit wants Solskjaer gone.

That tells you everything.

The media is VERY quiet when Solskjaer wins and is very quick to back Lampard now that his back is against the wall.

It's like they're afraid we are gonna roll in to top four if they admit that Solskjaer isn't the mug they're making him out to be.

It's obvious to anyone that we had a player problem. Solskjaer has shown incredible guts and selflessness and a ruthless streak in getting rid of some GOOD players that could have offered us some cover this season. There are few if any managers that I've ever seen strip a club to the bare bones the way Solskjaer has done. Everyone on redcafe, the media, and former players constantly complained that our players were overpaid and not good enough. Solskjaer has set about changing that and we are still complaining because (??)

I wouldn't swap having seen Greenwood, Williams and McTominay become the players they have done for any set of three players in England. The slow improvement we are seeing in the team is really amazing to follow and we have been a bit unlucky if anything this season to be in the position we are in due to injuries and missed penalties stalling our season.

Why you would swap our manager now when we finally seem to have a plan - I get it, but I will 100% back Solskjaer another season. He's doing the right things and the pressure he's done it under shows that he's better than we are giving him credit for

Are you just making stuff up now? What the hell are you talking about

"Every" opposition fan wants Solskjaer gone? are you sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and going lalalalala? Opposition fans are laughing at us and want us to keep Solskjaer, THAT's what tells you everything. Christ go check any social media, particularly Twitter and they are clamouring for him to get a new contract, i have absolutely no idea what dream world you are living in where all the opposition fans are terrified of us keeping Solskjaer because he's going to put all the other managers to shame with his amazing coaching abilities and steamroll us into 4th and beyond.

Apparently all the pundits are against us as well? Where? Where are the pundits calling for Solskjaers sacking due to the fact he might become this absolute godlike manager and it's terrifying them that Manchester United might come back under his leadership? Deluded.

It's true that we do and did have a player problem, all stemming from the management above cultivating a mess of high wages and rewarding mediocrity, and I will praise the fact he has gotten rid of some of the players we've been wanting to be rid of for the longest time. But this type of activity isn't exclusive to Solskjaer, nearly all managers do this, we've chosen poorly beforehand yes, picking ones that have exacerbated the issue rather than sort it, but there are far better managers than Solskjaer out there to be gotten that would have and will no doubt do similar things to this.

You claim we are unlucky, poor old Solskjaer having to fight against injuries and pressure? Like come on, every manager has to deal with injuries and pressure, this isn't exclusive to him. Fact is, everyone 4th and below has been particularly dogshit this season, this is why we are in 5th now, but could end up 8th next match day if results don't go our way, I don't want to hear excuses as to why we've been playing garbage a lot of the time, why we are seemingly clueless in nearly all areas of the field consistently etc.

These last few games we've relied on the individual brilliance of Fernandes, that is pretty obvious because we've seen him dictate tactics to players during games, as well as any attacking output generally going through him.

Solskjaer is not a good manager despite the fact he has done some good things here. We should be going out and getting a great modern manager whilst they are available and not at big clubs, because they will get snapped up and we'll be left in the dust AGAIN, we should not be sticking it out because we feel like we owe him or because he used to play for us.
 
Injuries to key players hasn't been an excuse for us losing games but 'individual brilliance' of a new player is now the reason we are winning games. Interesting logic.
 
Apparently all the pundits are against us as well? Where? Where are the pundits calling for Solskjaers sacking due to the fact he might become this absolute godlike manager and it's terrifying them that Manchester United might come back under his leadership? Deluded.

I'm just comparing the way people speak about Arteta and Lampard on talksport/sky sports to the way they speak about Solskjaer who gets absolutely feck all credit for doing what NONE OF OUR OTHER MANAGERS did and finally replacing Young and Fellaini and the like.

We get like 30 seconds of air time for beating Chelsea or city but if we lose a game it's an hour of "sack sack sack" and there's no room for positivity anywhere. It's draining to never hear anything positive about Ole, because there are positives if you're willing to actually get over your fecking entitlement.

Would any other manager have had the bollocks to come in and sell half the team which just about everyone on redcafe agreed needed to happen (how many times did you see the word rebuild used here???) only to actually see it finally happen and now say that the guy who finally, finally actually did it doesn't deserve a shot at making things work?

Better to be risk being called deluded than reactionary and childish. Which football fans are.
 
If you take the league table over the past 16 games only, we're sitting 3rd, 4 behind City in 2nd. It's depressing that so many folk are still desperate to see him punished for our poor start rather than acknowledge the good progress we've made in the 4 months since then. Would be madness to throw that all away and start again on another unknown project next season, but some people are just too stubborn to even consider changing their opinions.
 
Progression. Progression. That's all he should be judged by. Stagnation bad. Progression good. We were stagnating for a period. Bad. We're progressing at the moment. Not just a couple of results, Bruno, style of play, spirit in team etc. Football is all about the shades. Ole-in, Ole-out, too black and white. Sensible fans allow for the in-between stuff. You give this scenario time to play out. Setting goals on it, top 4, win a cup, points total etc. are all pointless. We know what we had at the end with Mou, once we know where we're going and see that we're getting there, that's good enough for me. I'm backing him as long as that is the arc. I reserve the right to change my mind once that's derailed.
 
Like come on, every manager has to deal with injuries and pressure, this isn't exclusive to him.

Injuries maybe, but pressure you are 'avin a laugh. Every man as his dog has an opinion on everything Ole and United, be it his Managerial style, tactics/formations, substitutions in/out, constantly comparisons to SAF's past achievements where let's be honest it would make anybody look inadequate, transfers in/transfers out, the list is endless .... and you don't get that level of scrutiny, or even a ¼ of it at any other club in the country not even close, and very few anywhere else.
 
I'm just comparing the way people speak about Arteta and Lampard on talksport/sky sports to the way they speak about Solskjaer who gets absolutely feck all credit for doing what NONE OF OUR OTHER MANAGERS did and finally replacing Young and Fellaini and the like.

We get like 30 seconds of air time for beating Chelsea or city but if we lose a game it's an hour of "sack sack sack" and there's no room for positivity anywhere. It's draining to never hear anything positive about Ole, because there are positives if you're willing to actually get over your fecking entitlement.

Would any other manager have had the bollocks to come in and sell half the team which just about everyone on redcafe agreed needed to happen (how many times did you see the word rebuild used here???) only to actually see it finally happen and now say that the guy who finally, finally actually did it doesn't deserve a shot at making things work?

Better to be risk being called deluded than reactionary and childish. Which football fans are.

So you don't want to address the rest of the post apart from the quote you've selected? What a shocker that is.

Again, please point me to this complete media bias against Solskjaer and the absolute love in of Arteta and Lampard, the fact we hired nothing or past it managers has no bearing on what Solskjaer has done it although it has only served to make him look better for being competent in getting rid of some obviously past it players, though in the post I made I did praise him for this.

We do not only get 30 seconds of airtime for beating Chelsea or City, and nobody in the media goes on a tirade for an hour of sack sack sack whenever we lose 1 match. But then we get to the crux of your argument don't we, anybody that doesn't think Ole is good enough is an entitled fan that isn't qualified to be considered a Top Red, because only un-entitled Top Red's are of the mindset to give managers unlimited funds, 10 transfer windows and 5 seasons of time to put anything together, that is, after all, the "United way"

He absolutely doesn't "deserve" anything, especially on the back of, well, selling some players that we wanted previous managers to sell, come on, that's like saying well a manager of a company has an horrendous CV, yet has found himself manager of this company, his performance has been pretty middling, but he has fired some underachieving employees so he definitely deserves to keep his job for at least another 2-3 years minimum, you realise how ridiculous that sounds? This isn't work experience.

I get it though, we obviously see the game in different ways, you see the more romantic, give everyone time, hope he becomes Sir Alex side, where as i'm more, get the best modern manager we can, move forward, cold hearted everyone needs to earn their time kind.
 
I get it though, we obviously see the game in different ways, you see the more romantic, give everyone time, hope he becomes Sir Alex side, where as i'm more, get the best modern manager we can, move forward, cold hearted everyone needs to earn their time kind.
Yep, that is the main theme and truth about all this debate about our manager. Two opposite approaches
 
Maybe Ole just needs better coaches to help him? are Phelan/Carrick/Phil Neville really good enough to produce the sort of football he desires?

People forget that Fergie didn't actually do much of the training, he left that to Muelensteen and Phelan. Maybe we just need some younger, modern coaches to help?
 
Maybe Ole just needs better coaches to help him? are Phelan/Carrick/Phil Neville really good enough to produce the sort of football he desires?

People forget that Fergie didn't actually do much of the training, he left that to Muelensteen and Phelan. Maybe we just need some younger, modern coaches to help?
That is exactly what is one of main problems for Ole out group. Isn't that managers job? To build his own coaching team?
We are not some training center for managers. We should be top challenge (last level) in football job. For managers and players. You prove yourself elsewhere and then you come in United. Which Solskjaer didn't do. He got the job because of pure nepotism
 
Injuries to key players hasn't been an excuse for us losing games but 'individual brilliance' of a new player is now the reason we are winning games. Interesting logic.

Individual brilliance in other teams is classed as great coaching, too.
 
That is exactly what is one of main problems for Ole out group. Isn't that managers job? To build his own coaching team?
We are not some training center for managers. We should be top challenge (last level) in football job. For managers and players. You prove yourself elsewhere and then you come in United. Which Solskjaer didn't do. He got the job because of pure nepotism
While I agree in a sense, we don't really know how in depth Ole is with the players. He might be the complete trainer, he might do nothing with them and concentrate on tactics for the matches coming up.

The majority of the players do seem "happy" under Ole, we don't see sulking players or the team turning against him so that's a good sign.

I genuinely am a little on the fence of whether to give him more time or not, but we've seen with the Bruno addition that the team can look a lot better with better quality players.

People like Lingard, Pereira, Mata should never be near a Manchester United first team anymore, but they've been mainstays and first teamers.

Once we get passed that and have a better squad only then can we really say if he's failing or not. We do have to remember he's lost Lukaku/Herrera/Fellaini who were decent squad players for Jose, and they've not been replaced properly.
 
Becks has spoken.....#OleIn



As much as I love Becks, he's basically said there, if you are in any way discontented with any of the shit we've seen since Sir Alex has retired you aren't a real fan, which is absolutely ridiculous
 
That is exactly what is one of main problems for Ole out group. Isn't that managers job? To build his own coaching team?
We are not some training center for managers. We should be top challenge (last level) in football job. For managers and players. You prove yourself elsewhere and then you come in United. Which Solskjaer didn't do. He got the job because of pure nepotism

Jose had Carrick and McKenna while he was here, Phelan was here when SAF was here. They were good enough for them so under Ole they are under qualified?

You do realise, Ole was in the United set up after he left? He was brought in by SAF to coach the strikers when we had Rooney, Ronaldo?

Ole then took charge of the reserves for a few years then went to Molde. They have kept tabs of his progress throughout.

Lastly, alot of managers/ players get moved / jobs based on people they know. It happens in every industry unless you are the best best.
 


Look at him bringing in others to motivate the team instead of doing it himself.



Christ, that's a fecking weird thing to do. It's just unnecessary - no other clubs are having to do this, if the players are that lacking in motivation then either/or they and the management team needs to get out of the club. That locker room is earning a fecking fortune, some are stealing a living (including the manager who earns more than the world's best) - if they need outside motivation like this, they can do one.
 
Don't people get bored of saying the same thing every day, "ohh Ole is bad, Ohh Ole is crap, Ohh Ole is this, Ole is that" . The truth is Ole is not going anywhere before the season is over. Maybe after the season is over then we might talk about sacking him.
 
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