Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Garethw]

I wonder what the rhetoric would be like on here if we appointed Poch and ended up not winning anything for another 3 years?

Well we aren’t winning anything with Solskjær either. At least in your scenario we’d have a top manager coaching the team properly rather than someone that has been given the job because of his playing career.

 

[Womp]

Sure, why doesn't Klopp still play with Karius, Lovren, etc...? And can you imagine this current Liverpool team when they get Salah, Mane, Firmino injured? Do you think they can still make it? I don't think so, full stop. Just as Spurs can't make it right now without Kane and Son, Leicester without Ndidi, etc... I think we can leave Ole to work with his squad.

He doesn't play with those players because the players he prefers increase his chances of silverware, once again, has nothing to do with the results, rather the quality of football. The quality of the results will be hindered when you lose your best players, of course, but the coaching, movement etc. is still there to see. That's why Liverpool's bench players can somewhat seamlessly fit into the system and be just as effective, even if they aren't as good. Look at Shaqiri etc.

Also it's funny you refer to player like Salah, Mane etc. when they are clear contradictions to your argument. They were never seen or as good as they were before joining Klopp's system. They are proof that players can look far better when coached in a well drilled system.

 

[Gasolin]

He doesn't play with those players because the players he prefers increase his chances of silverware, once again, has nothing to do with the results, rather the quality of football. The quality of the results will be hindered when you lose your best players, of course, but the coaching, movement etc. is still there to see. That's why Liverpool's bench players can somewhat seamlessly fit into the system and be just as effective, even if they aren't as good. Look at Shaqiri etc.

Also it's funny you refer to player like Salah, Mane etc. when they are clear contradictions to your argument. They were never seen or as good as they were before joining Klopp's system. They are proof that players can look far better when coached in a well drilled system.

So losing those players doesn't affect the play on the pitch is your opinion? That's quite interesting.

 

[RedPed]

Well we aren’t winning anything with Solskjær either. At least in your scenario we’d have a top manager coaching the team properly rather than someone that has been given the job because of his playing career.

Ah great so it's not about winning stuff after all then? Brilliant.

 

[RedPed]

Of course it would, the agenda being the manager isn't good enough, so get rid and get another, people aren't clamoring for Ole to get the sack just because he is Ole, it's because he's crap and there are better managers out there. However the people who want Ole in are only clamouring for it because he's Ole, not because he's a fantastic football manager, all evidence has pointed to him not being good enough his entire managerial career so you can't argue otherwise.

Unless you've spoken to every one of them individually, that's just BS. I'm neither Ole in or Ole out. I just don't see any point in making any changes until the end of the season at the very least. It's not as if we're in Arsenal's position. Mourinho's also lost two of his key players and the whining and excuses have begun already. Look at the squad that Spurs have and he reckons he can't do anything with them? We've binned loads of players and have been without Pogba, Martial, McTominay, Bailly and Rashford significantly for large periods. Rashford was having his best season and Greenwood, Fred and McTominay have made huge strides. We're still in the mix so it's not all doom and gloom despite what the Ole Out Crusaders might have you believe.

 

[InspiRED]

Unless you've spoken to every one of them individually, that's just BS. I'm neither Ole in or Ole out. I just don't see any point in making any changes until the end of the season at the very least. It's not as if we're in Arsenal's position. Mourinho's also lost two of his key players and the whining and excuses have begun already. Look at the squad that Spurs have and he reckons he can't do anything with them? We've binned loads of players and have been without Pogba, Martial, McTominay, Bailly and Rashford significantly for large periods. Rashford was having his best season and Greenwood, Fred and McTominay have made huge strides. We're still in the mix so it's not all doom and gloom despite what the Ole Out Crusaders might have you believe.

You’re neither Ole in or Ole out, but you’re Ole in til the end of this season ‘at the very least’. OK then

Clearly neutral there

Also ‘crusaders’... the poll had just dropped from 80 percent who voted wanted Ole replaced by the end of the season to over 70 percent now. ‘ That’s not a crusade, if you are going to use those sort of terms it would be a populist movement.

 

[RedPed]

You’re neither Ole in or Ole out, but you’re Ole in til the end of this season ‘at the very least’. OK then

Clearly neutral there

I'm guessing you can't read.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You’re neither Ole in or Ole out, but you’re Ole in til the end of this season ‘at the very least’. OK then

Clearly neutral there

I also voted till the end of the season, I just don't see the point in changing now. Maybe in December after Watford, that would've given a new manger a chance to come in and have a full January window, training camp etc. However, once we went through Christmas with Ole and got some decent results, the idea of sacking him before May became ridiculous to me.
Might as well then let him have the number 10 he's been missing and see what he can do with the side for the next few months. If he can't get a good run going and show progress between now and the end of the season, even with €214m of his own players and the likes of McTom and Pogba to come back, he'll rightly be moved on.

 

[90 + 5min]

The truth that we are on 38 points after 26 i.e. 1.46 points per game. And he needs to win 9 out of the 12 games just to do better than out worst season under Moyes in terms points tally since Premier League began. You know what that means, he needs 2.25 points per game for this to not be our worst season in Premier League. Were you seeing this truth during Moyes's season or just don't want to see it now because your agenda does not allow that? And what's with the Ole hate thing mate, I don't know him, why should I spend my time hating someone I don't even know personally. Time is not given, you have to earn it not matter what the profession. I want what's best for the club and I also want my club to play nice football. That's all it is.

Edit: I'm repeating again I don't know for what time, we are only comparing the quality of football wrt squad quality, not the managers, not the league position, not the financial power of the club etc. Why do you say "regardless of player"? Could you say Athletico Madrid play attacking attractive football? Aren't they high in the table or were last season? Isn't is down to the player quality? It goes both ways, a good squad can do better with a crap manager (not saying Simeone is bad manager) or a good manager with bad squad can only achieve so much. Ole has to play nice football or if he intends to play crap football at least know how to get points. He cannot not have both.

You are right but I wonder what this year has to do with any other? This year is this year. What happened before doesn’t matter looking at points. Sir Alex Ferguson won leagues by lot less points than Liverpool and ManCity. Does that make him worse? Of course not.
Am I satisfied by our points and position? No. But there is a reason for that and as long as I see progress as whole than I would give Solskjaer time. I have said before. He should at least get time to december so we can evaluate start of next season.

Our squad quality is not that great that you would expect us to play brilliant football. We are making what we can in our position. We lack midfield who I hope is boosted by Fernandes. And we have injuries.

Simeone is and always have been defensive minded coach. They could buy 50 attackers but he would still setup his Madrid in a certain way.

 

[devilish]

I also voted till the end of the season, I just don't see the point in changing now. Maybe in December after Watford, that would've given a new manger a chance to come in and have a full January window, training camp etc. However, once we went through Christmas with Ole and got some decent results, the idea of sacking him before May became ridiculous to me.
Might as well then let him have the number 10 he's been missing and see what he can do with the side for the next few months. If he can't get a good run going and show progress between now and the end of the season, even with €214m of his own players and the likes of McTom and Pogba to come back, he'll rightly be moved on.

All Ole out are clearly Ole in till the end of the season guys. We won't be sacking the manager in February.

 

[InspiRED]

I'm guessing you can't read.

You can guess all you want, but I know you can’t read. ‘End of the season at the very least’ implies you’d like him in charge next season too which makes you, by definition, ‘Ole in’. This is backed up by using terms like ‘crusaders’ to describe the 70 - 80% on here that want him gone by the end of the season ‘at the very most’.Alongside numerous posts criticising posters who take issue with his tenure and generally trotting out the same defences made by his staunch supporters; ‘he’s spent £190m on three players really well!’ Etc etc.

I also voted till the end of the season, I just don't see the point in changing now. Maybe in December after Watford, that would've given a new manger a chance to come in and have a full January window, training camp etc. However, once we went through Christmas with Ole and got some decent results, the idea of sacking him before May became ridiculous to me.
Might as well then let him have the number 10 he's been missing and see what he can do with the side for the next few months. If he can't get a good run going and show progress between now and the end of the season, even with €214m of his own players and the likes of McTom and Pogba to come back, he'll rightly be moved on.

This is fair enough. I’ve even made posts saying he could still turn it around, even though the evidence is not in his favour at this time. If he finishes top four and the squad are playing better and there are promising signs he will deserve more time. My issue is with that poster claiming they’re on the fence - when their post content suggests otherwise - and then using that ‘impartiality’ as a stick to beat those who are unhappy with Ole’s tenure so far. As there’s obviously more than enough reasons to be dissatisfied with that as it stands.

Not really justifiable to attack the posters who point out the shortcomings of this and last season. And it’s extra shitty to do it from a disingenuous ‘neutral’ standpoint.

 

[lysglimt]

The worse excuse for the OLE IN bridgate are injuries. First of all two of them were Ole's fault, secondly even with that squad, the squad is BETTER then the like sof brugge, bournemouth, newcastle and co and we played badly and got outplayes in most of these games...thats up to the manager who is NOT up to pat. So stop bringing injuries as excuses.

Isn't there some childrens tv on that you can watch ?

 

[Bobcat]

The truth that we are on 38 points after 26 i.e. 1.46 points per game. And he needs to win 9 out of the 12 games just to do better than out worst season under Moyes in terms points tally since Premier League began. You know what that means, he needs 2.25 points per game for this to not be our worst season in Premier League. Were you seeing this truth during Moyes's season or just don't want to see it now because your agenda does not allow that? And what's with the Ole hate thing mate, I don't know him, why should I spend my time hating someone I don't even know personally. Time is not given, you have to earn it not matter what the profession. I want what's best for the club and I also want my club to play nice football. That's all it is.

Edit: I'm repeating again I don't know for what time, we are only comparing the quality of football wrt squad quality, not the managers, not the league position, not the financial power of the club etc. Why do you say "regardless of player"? Could you say Athletico Madrid play attacking attractive football? Aren't they high in the table or were last season? Isn't is down to the player quality? It goes both ways, a good squad can do better with a crap manager (not saying Simeone is bad manager) or a good manager with bad squad can only achieve so much. Ole has to play nice football or if he intends to play crap football at least know how to get points. He cannot not have both.

Well, in terms of performances we are still not as bad as you would have us believe, if you look at the xG stats some interesting observations come up. I know xG is not the greatest, but we now have a decent sample size to draw from

• In terms of points haul, we are the worst offenders with almost 9 points less than we should have had
• In terms of xG compared to actual goals we are also pretty bad with -5.22 in goals compared to expected goals and only Chelsea are worse among our table neighbors. In other words, we creating a decent amount of high quality chances, we're just not scoring them
• We are 4th in total shots and 4th in times hit the woodwork
• Norwich that got put ahead as an example as a a decent team are admittedly decent to watch for a neutral, as they throw everyone in attack. In terms of xG they have scored less than they should, but their xGA is pretty flat, which tells you they are not defending very well and concede a lot of goals as well as high quality chances
• Spurs, but especially Leicester and Liverpool are overperforming in every metric

Also, pretty much every top team besides Liverpool have their "worst season ever".

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

As long as his signings don't look worse under him than prior to being signed and over a year into his management, we are seeing actual progress in regards to our football, I'm sure we'd be fine. This isn't about trophies with Ole, people need to understand that. He's a million miles away from having us competing for top honours. This is about literally over a year into his tenure here, our football has not improved at all. We are still heavily reliant on counter attacking, which is by far the easiest football to coach. It's why Mourinho who is known for having a lax approach to coaching prefers it.

That's my view, yeah. If Poch came in and our football was visibly much better, results were better and his signings hadn't regressed under his watch I wouldn't have an issue with not competing for major honours for a few years. However, the three things listed above would probably mean that we'd at least be competing for something - teams who play good football and get solid results, tend to do that, it tends to come with the territory. I'd be happy with the odd domestic cup and top 4 for 2-3yrs but what I'm not happy with is shit football, the worst points haul we've had in the PL and sitting around 8th in the table despite having spent £150-200m on new players.

Nobody is expecting Ole to compete with Liverpool or City right now. We're asking him to be better than Sheff United and Burnley.

 

[Garethw]

Ah great so it's not about winning stuff after all then? Brilliant.

Of course it is about winning things. I was replying to your hypothetical scenario.

 

[Kurton]

Well, in terms of performances we are still not as bad as you would have us believe, if you look at the xG stats some interesting observations come up. I know xG is not the greatest, but we now have a decent sample size to draw from

• In terms of points haul, we are the worst offenders with almost 9 points less than we should have had
• In terms of xG compared to actual goals we are also pretty bad with -5.22 in goals compared to expected goals and only Chelsea are worse among our table neighbors. In other words, we creating a decent amount of high quality chances, we're just not scoring them
• We are 4th in total shots and 4th in times hit the woodwork
• Norwich that got put ahead as an example as a a decent team are admittedly decent to watch for a neutral, as they throw everyone in attack. In terms of xG they have scored less than they should, but their xGA is pretty flat, which tells you they are not defending very well and concede a lot of goals as well as high quality chances
• Spurs, but especially Leicester and Liverpool are overperforming in every metric

Also, pretty much every top team besides Liverpool have their "worst season ever".

Interesting stats mate. I'm not sure if the xG is per game or just summing up all the goal scoring opportunities? If it's the latter it doesn't say much as one or two games can skew the stats a lot. It would also be interesting to break it down on counter-attacks vs. through short passing, which will give a better idea. Even total shots doesn't tell much, we've seen Fred blast shots from nowhere into the stands so many times. I'm not trying to play them down but some stats can be very misleading.

 

[RedPed]

You can guess all you want, but I know you can’t read. ‘End of the season at the very least’ implies you’d like him in charge next season too which makes you, by definition, ‘Ole in’. This is backed up by using terms like ‘crusaders’ to describe the 70 - 80% on here that want him gone by the end of the season ‘at the very most’.Alongside numerous posts criticising posters who take issue with his tenure and generally trotting out the same defences made by his staunch supporters; ‘he’s spent £190m on three players really well!’ Etc etc.


This is fair enough. I’ve even made posts saying he could still turn it around, even though the evidence is not in his favour at this time. If he finishes top four and the squad are playing better and there are promising signs he will deserve more time. My issue is with that poster claiming they’re on the fence - when their post content suggests otherwise - and then using that ‘impartiality’ as a stick to beat those who are unhappy with Ole’s tenure so far. As there’s obviously more than enough reasons to be dissatisfied with that as it stands.

Not really justifiable to attack the posters who point out the shortcomings of this and last season. And it’s extra shitty to do it from a disingenuous ‘neutral’ standpoint.

Excellent detective work. Some sound deductions there, well done.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Interesting stats mate. I'm not sure if the xG is per game or just summing up all the goal scoring opportunities? If it's the latter it doesn't say much as one or two games can skew the stats a lot. It would also be interesting to break it down on counter-attacks vs. through short passing, which will give a better idea. Even total shots doesn't tell much, we've seen Fred blast shots from nowhere into the stands so many times. I'm not trying to play them down but some stats can be very misleading.

It does which is why sites that use it post all sorts of analytics to accompany their basic stats. For example, Liverpool should have been second on the table behind City since they have scored more goals than they deserved and they should have conceded more goals too. This is without taking into account that they have spent 358 fewer minutes than City in a situation where they needed to score a goal (game either level or them chasing the score). City have been wasteful this season but they also needed to play with the foot on the gas pedal far more often than Liverpool.

I posted in the other Solskjaer thread some xG stats that i thought were interesting. Firstly, we have the worst xG per shots taken percentage among the top-seven (Leicester included) and everybody bar Arsenal has scored more goals from open play than us. But this could be just our bad luck or a lack of quality, huh? Turns out that, alongside Arsenal, we have the fewest attempts from both the penalty area and the six-yard box too. You see, when City have 47 more shots in the penalty area than Liverpool (307, the most in the league) and they have scored the same goals as the scousers from that area, they can blame their bad luck. Since we have about 100/150 fewer attempts than the scousers and City in the penalty area, we have to look at what we're doing wrong too.

The second interesting stat is that with a goal difference of 0 (zero) our expected goal percentage is negative only by 0.19 xG, meaning we have scored pretty much as many goals as expected in the 1137 minutes are games were level. From open play, we have 27 goals when the xG stats (understat) credits us with just one more goal. Not a pretty picture. Our xGs percentages get inflated on two occasions: When we have a lead to protect and when we have to throw the kitchen sink in because we're losing. You can blame it on the players and the lack of quality throughout the squad but not all of it. The stats indicate that there's also something wrong with the quality of the chances we create and that we indeed have difficulties to open up compact defences and that our primary tactics don't produce the desired results. As with all stats, there many factors that have to be taken into consideration.

 

[L1nk]

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yes he's our worst manager post Fergie. We all know that bar a few who seem blinded to the fact that he's nowhere near good enough.

 

[TsuWave]

If Pogba gets Ole out of here I might end up tattooing his name on my neck.

 

[90 + 5min]

Let's cut and paste a little so we can keep this Solskjaer-out agenda rolling. Still don't understand what this "permanent stats" means. Should we exclude everything he done before? I thought people were done with this fake news, Solskjaer-hating, stuff.

 

[Gehrman]

Speaks volumes. In his defense injurys are one of the legit excuses, but i stil cant for the life of me find an explanation why Man Utd shouldnt have the best manager available and no one thought that was ole when mourinho was being sacked and his results are there on paper. If he wasnt a player legend the entire fanbase would have wanted him out long ago.

 

[Dinghy]

Loving these hilarious comparisons. Three months shamelessly erased from history to make him look worse than Moyes.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

If Pogba gets Ole out of here I might end up tattooing his name on my neck.

Incredible if true (which it probably isn't) - Ole has been sucking up to Pogba since he was appointed.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Speaks volumes. In his defense injurys are one of the legit excuses, but i stil cant for the life of me find an explanation why Man Utd shouldnt have the best manager available and no one thought that was ole when mourinho was being sacked and his results are there on paper. If he wasnt a player legend the entire fanbase would have wanted him out long ago.

I think it's because we apparently tried it once before and it didn't work. By the same logic, we should never show an interest in signing players like Sancho, Havertz etc because we tried signing great talents like Di Maria and Veron in the past and they flopped.

 

[Bilbo]

You can guess all you want, but I know you can’t read. ‘End of the season at the very least’ implies you’d like him in charge next season too which makes you, by definition, ‘Ole in’. This is backed up by using terms like ‘crusaders’ to describe the 70 - 80% on here that want him gone by the end of the season ‘at the very most’.Alongside numerous posts criticising posters who take issue with his tenure and generally trotting out the same defences made by his staunch supporters; ‘he’s spent £190m on three players really well!’ Etc etc.


This is fair enough. I’ve even made posts saying he could still turn it around, even though the evidence is not in his favour at this time. If he finishes top four and the squad are playing better and there are promising signs he will deserve more time. My issue is with that poster claiming they’re on the fence - when their post content suggests otherwise - and then using that ‘impartiality’ as a stick to beat those who are unhappy with Ole’s tenure so far. As there’s obviously more than enough reasons to be dissatisfied with that as it stands.

Not really justifiable to attack the posters who point out the shortcomings of this and last season. And it’s extra shitty to do it from a disingenuous ‘neutral’ standpoint.

It's the forums obsession with placing everyone into a bracket that has caused such a divide on here. I doubt there is any other football forum doing so with such regularity. There are sensible points of view on all sides of this debate, and then obviously with this being the internet there are also a high number of extreme views.

Seems that people are now discussing things with a little more respect to each other. The 'deluded' types of insults that were commonplace have died down a little, and it's better on here for it.

 

[DFreshKing]

Let's cut and paste a little so we can keep this Solskjaer-out agenda rolling. Still don't understand what this "permanent stats" means. Should we exclude everything he done before? I thought people were done with this fake news, Solskjaer-hating, stuff.

I only joy I take from their pathetic lack of support is the misery they have when United win and the fact Ole will only be sacked when it is the right call not just because these kids want a new shiny toy (who they will get bored of soon enough).

 

[Bilbo]

I think it's because we apparently tried it once before and it didn't work. By the same logic, we should never show an interest in signing players like Sancho, Havertz etc because we tried signing great talents like Di Maria and Veron in the past and they flopped.

I seriously doubt that any fan thinks we should keep Ole because bigger name managers have failed, so I'm not sure what the point of your post is. People get caught up in arguments on here and say stupid things and make wild statements. We've all done it.

 

[Gehrman]

I think it's because we apparently tried it once before and it didn't work. By the same logic, we should never show an interest in signing players like Sancho, Havertz etc because we tried signing great talents like Di Maria and Veron in the past and they flopped.

Yeah whats the point of buying world class players because Veron didnt make it here.

 

[Mainoldo]

He didn’t have the tools the others had. Look at his squad. What do you expect him to do with McTominay, Fred and Matic. Pogba being out for ages and Daniel James not really a premier league player.

No seriously I think we should be calling it a day in May. Let’s just hope he gets us Champions League football.

 

[Mainoldo]

I seriously doubt that any fan thinks we should keep Ole because bigger name managers have failed, so I'm not sure what the point of your post is. People get caught up in arguments on here and say stupid things and make wild statements. We've all done it.

I believe they do. Even if you ask them to be honest about their stupid statements.

 

[Bilbo]

I believe they do. Even if you ask them to be honest about their stupid statements.

There have been a lot of stupid statements on this forum from a whole lot of people. If you doubt that, go back and read this place after a loss, or even more so a win. It's been ridiculous.

 

[Mainoldo]

There have been a lot of stupid statements on this forum from a whole lot of people. If you doubt that, go back and read this place after a loss, or even more so a win. It's been ridiculous.

Yeah very true. Me included.. but there’s always some truth in it.

 

[Mainoldo]

So now you are saying I don't use my eyes. Let's use the eyes together to understand what we're talking about, shall we?
Here's a sequence where we are under pressure and we still don't play long.



Right after that, we can break City completely and be in front of their goal. So the transition was well executed, and fast enough to force City to break their shape.



So there is no difference, we build from the back, and this is something we are determined to do. The eyes are confirming it. Now what else? Your eyes don't want to see it?

Thanks for the Man City clips. But you missed my point no shock. But watch today and let me know the played out chances we create in the attacking half of the pitch that isn’t the result of a 30 yard pass or long shot.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Thanks for the Man City clips. But you missed my point no shock. But watch today and let me know the played out chances we create in the attacking half of the pitch that isn’t the result of a 30 yard pass or long shot.

25 minutes and its the same old, same old. Simply can't create anything.

 

[Stepney73]

25 minutes and its the same old, same old. Simply can't create anything.

We do look poorly coached NQAT

 

[United58]

Watford look like the home team.

They're 19th.

 

[Denis79]

Thanks for the Man City clips. But you missed my point no shock. But watch today and let me know the played out chances we create in the attacking half of the pitch that isn’t the result of a 30 yard pass or long shot.

We've had trouble against a sitting defence for a long time, buying a playmaker like Bruno won't change that either, we are too static upfront.

 

[AC1689]

We deserve this. Our fanbase continue to back him and cheer his name. Praising piss poor performances week in, week out.