Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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I think we should start expecting consistent results as we get more players back from injury. Watford would be a good match to prove that theory.
 
As much as I hate some of his medical management decisions, I can't hate him as a person. He is literally the only person - apart from maybe a couple willing less capable United former players - that could have re-galvanized this club back into a 'United way'. There is a core to this team. An attitude that was devoid for the past 6 years. There is a foundation for players like Bruno to walk into and elevate. It's how you properly run Manchester United. If he left today nobody would fault his short legacy here.
 
Ole irritates me because he literally picks the formation I have dreamt of seeing here at United -

433/4231 with Martial false 9 & Rashford out left - but then messes the whole thing up by playing a right footed winger on the right wing instead of a left footed player like Greenwood. He may not be ready & now Rashford is Injured its just irritating especially when the midfielders have been injured - are coming back + we have got some new and better ones as well. We literally didn't get to see it come to fruition & we now probably never will under a different manager. Fred & Mctomminay/Pogba in midfield with a new CAM absolutely great stuff. Lindelof instead of Smalling? Come on Ole we don't need CB's to create chances that damn much when our midfielders can't do that job for the past decade.

Then on top of that he plays the 352 which I also love if set up in an attacking sense but plays James as a striker - again instead of Greenwood or Ighalo who hopefully starts from now on. 3 at the back with Shaw at the back one day, you never know one day we may see Wan bissaka there as a RCB too. Played bloody Bruno Fernandes as a CAM almost as high up as a deep forward at times - I have been dreaming of a formation like that in a 352 since 5 years ago but played the poor boy James in 3 different positions this season.

I gave up on Ole because he made little petty mistakes. But he was not like Jose who I never saw or believed in what he wanted to build here.

There is a little part of me that still wants this to work.. But I keep myself frustrated at his mistakes because I can't keep myself being turned on and off every game as a switch because he does that - the injuries, the little tactical mistakes, the bad substitutions, the late substitutions.

I give him my support whilst he is here but the mistakes needs to stop.
 
Just heard this on the Man Utd Weekly pod - we have 17 points from top 6 opposition this season and 10 points from bottom 6 opposition.
 
It's an interesting end to the season. March is going to be a very difficult month with games away to Everton, home to City, away to Spurs and home to Sheffield. If we can get through with at least 6 points, then we'll have a series of 6 very winnable games coming up, together with players coming back from injury. I wouldn't say we are favorites by any means, but we have a good chance for top 4 imo. Bruno is key to be the man to create the chances that Lingard and Pereira could not and Ighalo has to chip in with a few goals too.

I'm excited by the run in this season.
 
Better players = better results

Let's see from here on in how things go. We finally have a sorted defence in place with a fair bit of depth and the midfield is in much better shape with the arrival of bruno, consistent good form of Fred and return of Mctominay.

Even in attack, we've managed to get a forward on loan, so we have a little depth there as well as support from greenwood and James.

Very few excuses now, if we don't make top 4 and go deep into the europa stages, especially with Chelsea on the rut that they are and spurs going through an injury crisis.

If he still manages to miss top 4 from this position, then we should definitely change things in the summer. But if we do get top 4 and or the europa then I hope he continues into the summer, mainly because his work with youth, squad culture, signings and getting rid of deadwood has been great.
 
7even said:
Judging a manager is in the end about results. Intelligence or not doesn’t matter.

Ole‘s teams gets results against the top teams but lose to many point against the bottom. Why is that in your opinion? Why is our team better organized, has better intensity, are more clinical and plays with more passions against Chelsea then relegation teams?

Against City and Liverpool (home) we played with one or two touches, our passes was distinct and with accuracy and our movements was good. A week later almost everything is gone and we look like a pub team.

I‘m curious. Is everything about inconsistent players or do you thing coaching, or should I say bad or lack of coaching is one important part in our bad results?
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Think this is the crux of the matter and it bothers me to no end as well. It cant be just a matter of tactics, because if all if took to beat the good teams were "counterattack lol" then they would not be on top of the table. As you said, we play with much more passion and drive in the big games. We seem sharp and focused, where as in some other games (like Burnley recently) so many of the players seemed like they could not give half a feck.

Ole talked a lot about a culture change and people brushed it off as nonsense, but after seeing how the season plays out and the recent interview Fred gave i firmly believe we have had and still have some severe problems with attitude in our squad.

Jose was in no shape or form innocent in his own sacking, but there is no doubt that a pretty sizable portion of the squad had downed tools in his last season. Then Ole comes in and we win 12 games in a row, and every single player is playing with their hearts on their sleeves. Ole gets appointed permanent and we go from great to complete shit overnight. Some of it no doubt down to fatigue and injuries, but not all of it i believe.

Now ideally Ole (or any other manager) would have this lot fall in line and pull in the same direction right away, but i dont think its that easy.
 
Kush said:
Going back to last season, he did the same with Lingard when he rushed him out at home to Liverpool, he got injured like 5 mins after coming on. I mean how many incidents do these people need before they realize that this has been a constant theme under Ole?
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I can never forget that. That has to be one of the stupidest things I've seen happened on a football pitch. And whenever Ole gives an update on injury He always speaks as if He doesn't have a clue about players management or squad rotation at all. It's always the same "He's fine, He'll play through pain" "We need him" "Will come back in a few weeks" even if the players themselves are fecked by his decision to make the squad so thin. It's worrying. Sure the medical team get the most blame but ultimately the manager should be sane enough not to mess around with his player's injury. The cost won't be 3 or 6 points, it can do more harm for the player and ultimately the club in the long run.
 
tenpoless said:
I can never forget that. That has to be one of the stupidest things I've seen happened on a football pitch. And whenever Ole gives an update on injury He always speaks as if He doesn't have a clue about players management or squad rotation at all. It's always the same "He's fine, He'll play through pain" "We need him" "Will come back in a few weeks" even if the players themselves are fecked by his decision to make the squad so thin. It's worrying. Sure the medical team get the most blame but ultimately the manager should be sane enough not to mess around with his player's injury. The cost won't be 3 or 6 points, it can do more harm for the player and ultimately the club in the long run.
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As if Ole doesn’t rotate in his other clubs? The only reason we are struggling is because we don’t have squad depth. When we do, we will rotate. And not just squad depth by bodies but by talent.
 
Gasolin said:
As if Ole doesn’t rotate in his other clubs? The only reason we are struggling is because we don’t have squad depth. When we do, we will rotate. And not just squad depth by bodies but by talent.
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Nobody told him to sell and loan so many players. In the end We loaned Odion when it's already too late. You shouldn't underestimate what injuries can do to players. I feel really bad for Rashford.
 
tenpoless said:
Nobody told him to sell and loan so many players. In the end We loaned Odion when it's already too late. You shouldn't underestimate what injuries can do to players. I feel really bad for Rashford.
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That’s because we needed to change the attitude of the players and those gone didn’t bring the right mentality. But we don’t have the money to buy all at once, that’s all. We wouldn’t have kicked all those players if we decided the change of mentality was more critical for us in the long term.
 
Bobcat said:
Think this is the crux of the matter and it bothers me to no end as well. It cant be just a matter of tactics, because if all if took to beat the good teams were "counterattack lol" then they would not be on top of the table. As you said, we play with much more passion and drive in the big games. We seem sharp and focused, where as in some other games (like Burnley recently) so many of the players seemed like they could not give half a feck.

Ole talked a lot about a culture change and people brushed it off as nonsense, but after seeing how the season plays out and the recent interview Fred gave i firmly believe we have had and still have some severe problems with attitude in our squad.

Jose was in no shape or form innocent in his own sacking, but there is no doubt that a pretty sizable portion of the squad had downed tools in his last season. Then Ole comes in and we win 12 games in a row, and every single player is playing with their hearts on their sleeves. Ole gets appointed permanent and we go from great to complete shit overnight. Some of it no doubt down to fatigue and injuries, but not all of it i believe.

Now ideally Ole (or any other manager) would have this lot fall in line and pull in the same direction right away, but i dont think its that easy.
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Who do you mean by they? Liverpool? I don't think Liverpool just play counter attacking. And you need to beat both good and crap teams. Don't how you can think you can be top of the table just by beating good teams and losing/ drawing against majority (crap) of the teams in the league.

The reason I think the players look like they don't care against these crap teams is because its frustrating play against them as they are so well organised and coached to defend, intercept passes, or close down passing angles. It saps out the enthusiasm if you can't more than a few passes with the general lack of coordination. Its like if you had a good supervisor/manager at work he/she can guide you and things seem so simple, without which you are overwhelmed and don't know where to begin. Whereas against the big teams, they are afforded more space as the opponent team is more focused on attacking than defending coupled with the excitement of playing against better players.
 
Kurton said:
Who do you mean by they? Liverpool? I don't think Liverpool just play counter attacking. And you need to beat both good and crap teams. Don't how you can think you can be top of the table just by beating good teams and losing/ drawing against majority (crap) of the teams in the league.

The reason I think the players look like they don't care against these crap teams is because its frustrating play against them as they are so well organised and coached to defend, intercept passes, or close down passing angles. It saps out the enthusiasm if you can't more than a few passes with the general lack of coordination. Its like if you had a good supervisor/manager at work he/she can guide you and things seem so simple, without which you are overwhelmed and don't know where to begin. Whereas against the big teams, they are afforded more space as the opponent team is more focused on attacking than defending coupled with the excitement of playing against better players.
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No i mean City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and Leichester, teams we have beaten/drawn that occupy the top spots in the table. If it is just a case of the better teams leaving space to exploit, then everyone else would have figured out that a long time ago. No matter how you spin it, its not easier to beat City, Chelsea and Spurs than it is to beat Burnley and Palace. If these big teams leaves so much space to exploit then other teams would have beaten them more often as well.
 
zenith said:
Better players = better results

Let's see from here on in how things go. We finally have a sorted defence in place with a fair bit of depth and the midfield is in much better shape with the arrival of bruno, consistent good form of Fred and return of Mctominay.

Even in attack, we've managed to get a forward on loan, so we have a little depth there as well as support from greenwood and James.

Very few excuses now, if we don't make top 4 and go deep into the europa stages, especially with Chelsea on the rut that they are and spurs going through an injury crisis.

If he still manages to miss top 4 from this position, then we should definitely change things in the summer. But if we do get top 4 and or the europa then I hope he continues into the summer, mainly because his work with youth, squad culture, signings and getting rid of deadwood has been great.
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If barcelona 2009 install me as a manager, I'd go on vacation and ask my assistant to manage them for me. Would still probably won the liga.

Does it make me a league winner quality manager?

Yes. With better player there are better result. But how on par is it? Even moyes can get top 4 if he was given 1billion to spend, he got 4th once with everton.

My biggest fear is that we spend another 400m and another 2 years of excuse, and ole fluke a top 4 or top 3 then we'll be having him for another 10 year.

My biggest worry with moyes wasnt losing point, my biggest worry under him was that we got lucky top 4 and he gets to live to his 6 year contract.
 
Sky1981 said:
If barcelona 2009 install me as a manager, I'd go on vacation and ask my assistant to manage them for me. Would still probably won the liga.

Does it make me a league winner quality manager?

Yes. With better player there are better result. But how on par is it? Even moyes can get top 4 if he was given 1billion to spend, he got 4th once with everton.

My biggest fear is that we spend another 400m and another 2 years of excuse, and ole fluke a top 4 or top 3 then we'll be having him for another 10 year.

My biggest worry with moyes wasnt losing point, my biggest worry under him was that we got lucky top 4 and he gets to live to his 6 year contract.
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In no way will Ole stay here for 10 years, those days are gone.

It has been pretty clear by the board that after this summer window and if he gets the signing he wants, a consistent top 4 and challenging for titles is his benchmark.

If he doesnt get it he will get sacked.

I agree that it can hamper us if he manages to do that but nothing more, but the way United has been in the past, consistent top 4 and decent results in CL would be a sigh of relief for many of us.
And it will also bring some much needed stability.

No matter how you look at it, if the summer window gets as promising as it looks like, he has done a pretty good job of getting us a new squad that can perform the next 5 years or more.
I think much of this is down to how he has sold in and used his legend status for the board to get along with and support him in this renevation of the squad.
And any manager that takes over now will have a much better foundation to build on than any of the post-ferguson managers.

All that beeing said though, I find myself sometimes thinking that the best outcome would be that he is sacked in the summer and Pochettino gets in. But that also means we would miss top 4/5.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
It sure would be amazing to face sides in the premier league that let you make 4 passes in their box.
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Some of the quality of defending in the Bundesliga is a joke.

I watched Sancho's goal on the weekend, the defender comes with a slide tackle whilst sancho is running and slides way past the ball. Ridiculous that.
 
Gasolin said:
That’s because we needed to change the attitude of the players and those gone didn’t bring the right mentality. But we don’t have the money to buy all at once, that’s all. We wouldn’t have kicked all those players if we decided the change of mentality was more critical for us in the long term.
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Personally, I'd keep them as bench warmers for one more season (or half a season, if possible) to prevent players like Rashford getting knackered and playing through injuries. They will also increase our chance to get top 4 regardless if They score some dodgy goals from long balls. With top 4 in our hands, it'll be easier to attract better players, that is when We get rid of them.
 
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When you talk about players attitude and fighting and all that, the first person he sold was our biggest fighter, Fellaini. The man gives 100% all the time inspite of all the hate. He has no clue about playing football or the coaches have no clue.
Professional players look to the coach to get them to win matches. If things are not working out or the tactics are not working then they look at the coach to sort things out. If the coach cannot sort things out ( as is happening at United lots of times now) then the players get disillusioned. I think this has happened at United. In public, they will back the manager but in their hearts they know that he does not have the capability to compete with the top managers.
 
Foxbatt said:
When you talk about players attitude and fighting and all that, the first person he sold was our biggest fighter, Fellaini. The man gives 100% all the time inspite of all the hate. He has no clue about playing football or the coaches have no clue.
Professional players look to the coach to get them to win matches. If things are not working out or the tactics are not working then they look at the coach to sort things out. If the coach cannot sort things out ( as is happening at United lots of times now) then the players get disillusioned. I think this has happened at United. In public, they will back the manager but in their hearts they know that he does not have the capability to compete with the top managers.
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Spot on!
Activity on the side line isn’t only about tactical instructions, it’s probably more about install belief and trust in those who’re unsecured and intensity and fighting sprit in the lame/lazy ones.

Almost all the great coaches are excellent motivators. Their shear presence automatically gives the team energy and confidence. Klopp is a master of getting his players feel special. Hands down.

When I saw Ole rollocking Lingard I was pleasantly surprised. More of this. Call out the under performers, praise those who delivers. Install passion and commitment. Be present. Just show some fu**ing engagement.

I hate when the manager and his team sits on their asses like lame ducks! Look at Zlatan in the EL final. Ronaldo in the EC. Pure passion and commitment. That’s my type of guys.
 
It's funny how so many are sympathetic with that Spurs are having a tough time now. And Mourhino goes full passive agressive mode saying we dont have a bullet in our gun and he would have liked RB Leipzig's bench players.

Quite a comparison for how much stick United have gotten beeing without Pogba most of the season, Martial for a while, and now Rashford. Not to mention how Solskjærs eternal optimism tries to uphold the optimism.
 
theklr said:
It's funny how so many are sympathetic with that Spurs are having a tough time now. And Mourhino goes full passive agressive mode saying we dont have a bullet in our gun and he would have liked RB Leipzig's bench players.

Quite a comparison for how much stick United have gotten beeing without Pogba most of the season, Martial for a while, and now Rashford. Not to mention how Solskjærs eternal optimism tries to uphold the optimism.
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I don’t think any United fan feels sorry for Mourinho. He’s doing the all things he did with us with Spurs. The game yesterday could well have been Sevilla home and away.
 
Mainoldo said:
I don’t think any United fan feels sorry for Mourinho. He’s doing the all things he did with us with Spurs. The game yesterday could well have been Sevilla home and away.
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Yes, i didnt mean United fans mostly, more the general media and fan base.
 
The reason why Solskjaer excels against the top four and is bad against the rest of the league is because he is a defensive minded manager. We can absorb pressure when the impetus isn't on us to hold possession and "snatch a goal" but the moment we are required to dictate a game we often just end up losing.

We need an attack minded manager to coach a system and individually develop a large majority of our starting 11. The video of Rose's tactical fluidity in Germany is the exact profile of candidate we should be looking at. You don't need good players to play attacking football.
 
Most here complain about coaches doing absolutely nothing but average players like Mctomney, Fred who most considered garbage are now playing well and punching above their weight. I feel Carrick has done good in this aspect, sitting down with players and guiding them and enabling them to do well. The next phase would be to do well as a team.
 
We play better against the big teams because we're generally the underdog and we are well organised to defend and capitalise on mistakes. The Martial goal came when their defence was all out of sync and they got punished by that ruthlessness. It's hard to play this way against smaller teams because you're expected to attack more and you have more of the ball. In a very cynical way of looking at it, we kind of play with the mentality of a smaller, dogged team that wants to frustrate and capitalise on mistakes. The method is a bit different than Jose in that we press more and play out from the back, but the mentality is actually pretty similar.

Gary Neville said on the commentary that he thought both Chelsea and United prefer to be the away team at the moment and I kind of agree with that. It wouldn't surprise me to see us lose to City at OT because the expectation will be there for us to show a bit more attacking intent.
 
passing-wind said:
The reason why Solskjaer excels against the top four and is bad against the rest of the league is because he is a defensive minded manager. We can absorb pressure when the impetus isn't on us to hold possession and "snatch a goal" but the moment we are required to dictate a game we often just end up losing.

We need an attack minded manager to coach a system and individually develop a large majority of our starting 11. The video of Rose's tactical fluidity in Germany is the exact profile of candidate we should be looking at. You don't need good players to play attacking football.
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Well... I think it has alot to do with our current midfield players as well.

None of them (bar Pogba and now hopefully Bruno) excels in keeping and recycling possession.

If Pogba gets back or we buy an replacement in Graelish or Maddison + a good CDM, I think we would be better suited to more calmness in the midfield and more forward thinking outside of counters.

But yeah, it seems it is the way he want to play I agree. It is kinda strange seeing he seems to emulate Liverpool under Klopp the first years but always praises City and how they play.
 
theklr said:
Yes, i didnt mean United fans mostly, more the general media and fan base.
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Really? I've seen quite a bit of criticism regarding Mourinho. Reading various articles and what certain journalists are saying on Twitter, i get the feeling that the general consensus among them is that the type of football he wants to play is no longer conducive to long term success. They obviously mentioned the injuries they had last night, but there was little sympathy for him. Quite the opposite, actually.
 
passing-wind said:
The reason why Solskjaer excels against the top four and is bad against the rest of the league is because he is a defensive minded manager.
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No it just means he spent 130M on defenders last summer and until recently had to make do with Lingard, Pereira and a well past expiry date Mata as the creative outlets in attack.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
No it just means he spent 130M on defenders last summer and until recently had to make do with Lingard, Pereira and a well past expiry date Mata as the creative outlets in attack.
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also because he has no frikken idea how to break up teams and knwo sonly how to counter.
 
tenpoless said:
Personally, I'd keep them as bench warmers for one more season (or half a season, if possible) to prevent players like Rashford getting knackered and playing through injuries. They will also increase our chance to get top 4 regardless if They score some dodgy goals from long balls. With top 4 in our hands, it'll be easier to attract better players, that is when We get rid of them.
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Yeah I can see the point but I think we had a choice to make and Ole made the difficult choice. It's a brave one, one that could potentially kill his career forever so we owe him a big one for that. Now, I don't think he expected us to struggle that much but sometimes, things don't go according to the plan. He is adapting now to the new reality of having injuries that are trickier and players not up to the level.

But yeah, point taken, maybe Ole should have been more conservative and tell the board it will be longer but this is "easier".
 
passing-wind said:
The reason why Solskjaer excels against the top four and is bad against the rest of the league is because he is a defensive minded manager. We can absorb pressure when the impetus isn't on us to hold possession and "snatch a goal" but the moment we are required to dictate a game we often just end up losing.

We need an attack minded manager to coach a system and individually develop a large majority of our starting 11. The video of Rose's tactical fluidity in Germany is the exact profile of candidate we should be looking at. You don't need good players to play attacking football.
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Solksjaer is not a defensive manager when he played with Molde so I think that's just the way he is approaching the game with the personnel we have. And btw, no defensive manager would commit 8 players in attack to force a 2/5/3 or 2/4/1/2 as we seem to play in offensive phases with the latest 3/4/3. That's a lot of players going forward.
 
theklr said:
Well... I think it has alot to do with our current midfield players as well.

None of them (bar Pogba and now hopefully Bruno) excels in keeping and recycling possession.

If Pogba gets back or we buy an replacement in Graelish or Maddison + a good CDM, I think we would be better suited to more calmness in the midfield and more forward thinking outside of counters.

But yeah, it seems it is the way he want to play I agree. It is kinda strange seeing he seems to emulate Liverpool under Klopp the first years but always praises City and how they play.
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That's because in his 2 first years winning the league, at Molde, he played possession based football, and he has been influenced by Pep in that regard. But then he changed, probably because of players being sold and therefore not having the ability to continue that kind of football. I think he's a guy who plays a lot like Klopp because he sees more chances of that securing long term wins + he doesn't think a style is set in stone forever, that's really what this is all about.

And he has taken a lot from Klopp recently, including for the use of the full backs, but he is also probably taking from our own team (we talked about it) etc... he is into playing faster now instead of just possession based football now. I for one enjoy fast paced football.
 
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