Ole and his new influx of coaches

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Klopp:
Lijnders - 20 year CV. 8 successful years at Porto, been at Liverpool 7 years.
Krawietz - 20 years with Klopp since his days at Mainz.

Pep:
Borrell - 25 year CV, started at Barcelona with Pep. Coaching in the PL for over 10 years at Liverpool and City.
Lillo - 40 year CV. New to City.
Vicens - New there, but before him it was Kidd who was there 12 years and before that helped us win everything there is to win.

Tuchel (who let's not forget was considered a poor manager until the last game of last season):
Michels - 20 years with Tuchel.
Low - 10 years experience, proved himself at Leipzig and moved on to join Tuchel at PSG.
Barry - the only random one. New coach and still involved with the national team.
Edwards - coaching at Chelsea since 2004.

Ole:
Carrick - 3 year CV. Won nothing.
McKenna - 6 year CV. Won nothing.
Phelan - won a lot 10 years ago. Failed and moved around jobs since then and was in the wilderness until we brought him back.


Other than Phelan, and we dont know how good he is anymore, we have very little experience or proven coaches in our setup. We also have the least experienced and proven manager of the four.

That should close the thread. Upon such details, people like me, who believe in the necessity of having solid experience and solid resumes to be part of first-team coaching at United, rest our case. Being a coach in the first team in this club is no job for inexperienced people; I'm totally against that. I just do not understand why Ole doesn't feel the same need to overhaul the coaching staff the same way that he did with the squad.

Spoken in ignorance. I really can't be arsed to explain why Kidd 'survived'

Go read the quote above. Kidd has both the resume and the reputation to deserve his extended stay.

 

[devilish]

That should close the thread. Upon such details, people like me, who believe in the necessity of having solid experience and solid resumes to be part of first-team coaching at United, rest our case. Being a coach in the first team in this club is no job for inexperienced people; I'm totally against that. I just do not understand why Ole doesn't feel the same need to overhaul the coaching staff the same way that he did with the squad.


Go read the quote above. Kidd has both the resume and the reputation to deserve his extended stay.

Ole is, in my opinion, a modern type of manager. He acknowledges that having a happy dressing room is more important then anything else. For example Carlos Q was immense as an assistant manager. He was tactically sound, he was experienced and he was basically a shadow manager for us. However his training was a bit monotonous which ended up pissing Keane off and nearly causing a rift in the dressing room. It was only thanks to SAF that this rift didn't happen. Ole is not SAF. If there's a rift in the dressing room then he probably ends up going down with it just as Moyes, LVG and Mou did.

Which is why, I believe, that his coaching staff is what it is. Most are young coaches, who come from a similar generation to our players. It wasn't that long ago that Carrick played football so he can relate with these players and keep them happy. Having said that, we can't have an entire coaching setup meant to keep players happy. We need experienced people who can help Ole in areas he surely lack.

 

[largelyworried]

Ole is, in my opinion, a modern type of manager. He acknowledges that having a happy dressing room is more important then anything else. For example Carlos Q was immense as an assistant manager. He was tactically sound, he was experienced and he was basically a shadow manager for us. However his training was a bit monotonous which ended up pissing Keane off and nearly causing a rift in the dressing room. It was only thanks to SAF that this rift didn't happen. Ole is not SAF. If there's a rift in the dressing room then he probably ends up going down with it just as Moyes, LVG and Mou did.

Which is why, I believe, that his coaching staff is what it is. Most are young coaches, who come from a similar generation to our players. It wasn't that long ago that Carrick played football so he can relate with these players and keep them happy. Having said that, we can't have an entire coaching setup meant to keep players happy. We need experienced people who can help Ole in areas he surely lack.

I agree that keeping the dressing room happy is important. I’m not sure I’d describe that as particularly modern though.

 

[devilish]

I agree that keeping the dressing room happy is important. I’m not sure I’d describe that as particularly modern though.

It is. Apart from some exceptions (ex SAF) the previous generations of managers saw players as important chess pieces they controlled. The likes of Mou, LvG and Lippi are typical examples of these Sort of managers.

 

[UnitedSofa]

We need a life coach and a hypnotist to convince the likes of Jones, Martial and Lingard to feck off

Despite winning us matches and playing well (bar one costly mistake) people still want Lingard gone.

Ole is, in my opinion, a modern type of manager. He acknowledges that having a happy dressing room is more important then anything else. For example Carlos Q was immense as an assistant manager. He was tactically sound, he was experienced and he was basically a shadow manager for us. However his training was a bit monotonous which ended up pissing Keane off and nearly causing a rift in the dressing room. It was only thanks to SAF that this rift didn't happen. Ole is not SAF. If there's a rift in the dressing room then he probably ends up going down with it just as Moyes, LVG and Mou did.

Which is why, I believe, that his coaching staff is what it is. Most are young coaches, who come from a similar generation to our players. It wasn't that long ago that Carrick played football so he can relate with these players and keep them happy. Having said that, we can't have an entire coaching setup meant to keep players happy. We need experienced people who can help Ole in areas he surely lack.

Love how literally no one would know how the coaches perform in training and yet here we have redcafe members claiming that the coaches are there to “keep the playing staff happy” - Carrick has been there alongside Mourinho, but yes because it’s Ole, Carrick is there to keep the players happy. Must be.

 

[largelyworried]

It is. Apart from some exceptions (ex SAF) the previous generations of managers saw players as important chess pieces they controlled. The likes of Mou, LvG and Lippi are typical examples of these Sort of managers.

Those guys were exceptions. The overwhelming majority of typical managers - your Alan Curbishley/Peter Taylor/Howard Wilkinson types - valued team spirit and a happy dressing way above tactics. No incoming manager ever talked about formations , they all talked about the state of the dressing room and harmony.

 

[devilish]

Those guys were exceptions. The overwhelming majority of typical managers - your Alan Curbishley/Peter Taylor/Howard Wilkinson types - valued team spirit and a happy dressing way above tactics. No incoming manager ever talked about formations , they all talked about the state of the dressing room and harmony.

I am not saying that previous generation managers were Hannibal Lecters. What I am saying is that tactics, strategy, discipline and formations were deemed more important to them then the actual players in them. I can add more names to the list like Capello and Sacchi. Ancelotti started like them but he turned a weakness into a strength while Conte is pretty much old school. The stories you hear around those managers would shock you. For example Capello expected Foster to return to national duty immediately after his wife gave birth to his child. Foster rushed back to the national team only for Capello not bothering playing him at all. England was playing friendly matches at the time BTW. Sacchi didn't call Vialli to USA 94 because of a prank made on him 2 years before. These sort of things were common among managers of that generation.

Its kind of ironic that we went for the no nonsense type of manager especially SAF spoke regularly about this shift of mentality in players and the need to adapt to it. In the past most players wanted two things ie money and success. These days players want more then that.

 

[devilish]

Love how literally no one would know how the coaches perform in training and yet here we have redcafe members claiming that the coaches are there to “keep the playing staff happy” - Carrick has been there alongside Mourinho, but yes because it’s Ole, Carrick is there to keep the players happy. Must be.

Carrick took over Rui Faria. Few months later Mou got sacked. The guy had like zero coaching experience when he joined the coaching staff in 2018. So I very much doubt that we hired him in the job for his coaching expertise.

 

[largelyworried]

I am not saying that previous generation managers were Hannibal Lecters. What I am saying is that tactics, strategy, discipline and formations were deemed more important to them then the actual players in them. I can add more names to the list like Capello and Sacchi. Ancelotti started like them but he turned a weakness into a strength while Conte is pretty much old school. The stories you hear around those managers would shock you. For example Capello expected Foster to return to national duty immediately after his wife gave birth to his child. Foster rushed back to the national team only for Capello not bothering playing him at all. England was playing friendly matches at the time BTW. Sacchi didn't call Vialli to USA 94 because of a prank made on him 2 years before. These sort of things were common among managers of that generation.

Its kind of ironic that we went for the no nonsense type of manager especially SAF spoke regularly about this shift of mentality in players and the need to adapt to it. In the past most players wanted two things ie money and success. These days players want more then that.

I find the idea that the last 40 years of English football has been about high tactics and formations, with players as chess pieces in complex tactical battles, kind of an incredible claim. But if that's how you see it, so be it.

 

[Galactic]

Klopp:
Lijnders - 20 year CV. 8 successful years at Porto, been at Liverpool 7 years.
Krawietz - 20 years with Klopp since his days at Mainz.

Pep:
Borrell - 25 year CV, started at Barcelona with Pep. Coaching in the PL for over 10 years at Liverpool and City.
Lillo - 40 year CV. New to City.
Vicens - New there, but before him it was Kidd who was there 12 years and before that helped us win everything there is to win.

Tuchel (who let's not forget was considered a poor manager until the last game of last season):
Michels - 20 years with Tuchel.
Low - 10 years experience, proved himself at Leipzig and moved on to join Tuchel at PSG.
Barry - the only random one. New coach and still involved with the national team.
Edwards - coaching at Chelsea since 2004.

Ole:
Carrick - 3 year CV. Won nothing.
McKenna - 6 year CV. Won nothing.
Phelan - won a lot 10 years ago. Failed and moved around jobs since then and was in the wilderness until we brought him back.


Other than Phelan, and we dont know how good he is anymore, we have very little experience or proven coaches in our setup. We also have the least experienced and proven manager of the four.

Who did Fergie have in his early years at United? Just curious.

 

[devilish]

I find the idea that the last 40 years of English football has been about high tactics and formations, with players as chess pieces in complex tactical battles, kind of an incredible claim. But if that's how you see it, so be it.

I was referring to managers putting man management as the central core of their strategy. That's a rather modern view to football. Tactically Ole is lacking big time.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Who did Fergie have in his early years at United? Just curious.

Archie Knox was Fergie's assistant between 1980 and 1983; he won 4 trophies with Fergie at Aberdeen before moving on to Dundee for 3 years and a very short spell back at Aberdeen prior to being hired at United. In April 1991, he left United to work for Rangers under Walter Smith.

Brian Kidd was promoted from being a youth team coach (hired in 1988) into assistant manager in 1991.

 

[Foxbatt]

We need a good bar man if all it needs is to keep the players happy to be a successful football team

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Interesting Eric Ramsey stat. Ole hired a new specialist set piece coach this summer. After 11 games only 4 teams have conceded more goals from set pieces than us. We are the only team in the Premier League that hasn’t scored any goals from a set piece. Fecking hell.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Interesting Eric Ramsey stat. Ole hired a new specialist set piece coach this summer. After 11 games only 4 teams have conceded more goals from set pieces than us. We are the only team in the Premier League that hasn’t scored any goals from a set piece. Fecking hell.

Pretty grim.

Everyone on the coaching staff needs to be replaced.

 

[V.O.]

Interesting Eric Ramsey stat. Ole hired a new specialist set piece coach this summer. After 11 games only 4 teams have conceded more goals from set pieces than us. We are the only team in the Premier League that hasn’t scored any goals from a set piece. Fecking hell.

The interesting part presumably being to try and figure out which four teams could possibly be more shit at defending set pieces than we are. Probably Norwich and Newcastle, after that I'm at a loss.