There was a chat on talksport this afternoon about the Women's Euros and the game at Old Trafford, with the main topic being how dilapidated the stadium is. It's been years since I've been to OT but it was already getting bad. I really hope that whatever development plans they come up with include stadium wide improvements because it's actually embarrassing.
Old Trafford revamp/could be torn down and rebuilt according to Glazer plans
- Thread starter GE
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I go to games pretty regularly and I’ve always thought the stadium looks absolutely fine. Although I haven’t ever been to any stadium other than OT so I can’t say how it stands up in comparison, but I’ve never got the idea OT is crumbling.
People get the perception from what is painted in the media. Although the roof leaks/did leak, the only other problem is the lack of leg room but there's nothing that can be done about that. I've had my season ticket going into my 17th season and I love OT, going up from the concourse and seeing the pitch under the floodlights gives me that same buzz now the same it did the first time I saw it, it has that romance that a new stadium would never achieve.
I agree. I’m always struck by the fact that most of the people who moan about the stadium don’t actually attend.
Agreed. I would love them to finish the south stand but I get how hard that is to achieve. The place is magic, even when we are shite.
Yeah that's the view I have with it. I just get the idea that the younger generation won't appreciate it for what it is because of the more modern and flashier stadiums which are being built and have been built.
It's certainly not a modern stadium by any means. But it's a well-functioning one with its unique 20th century charm. It's in bad need of a proper renovation and update though. Are the toilets still as horrible as pre-covid?
People do go overboard with it, but it definitely needs an update. The sloping roof for me needs completely replacing.
A post that explains itself fully. If you start going to the other big PL stadiums you will notice the difference. People are right when they complain about OT being in a bad way relative to others of its supposed status but if you don't know the standard it's being compared to then sure, it probably seems okay-ish.
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I don’t think so. Yeah I can’t compare it to more modern stadiums, but I do know it’s not some shithole that’s on the verge of falling apart like people would have you believe.
How is it 'in a bad way'?
They need to re-arrange the concourse, not sure if it's just the case of hiring more staff or installing new tech but unless you come down at the 40th minute you aren't getting a half time pint.
It's bit of an odd one really as it depends on which ground you are comparing it against, say for example somewhere like Molineux then I would say there's nothing wrong with our ground but then you can compare it somewhere like White Hart Lane and that's when you realise how dated our ground is.
I've stopped trying.
The place is litteraly falling apart.
You've never been to another ground ever? Unusual!
But yes, I tend to agree with you on your first line.
Leg room, toilets and areas around the food bars etc are pretty poor, but that's inevitable for a stadium built when this one was.
Not sure those situations are resolvable without a huge overhauling.
The roof design blocks most of the view of the stadium, which isn't great either, but again, isn't something you can casually change!
I’d definitely describe Old Trafford as creaking. It’s very fast falling behind the main grounds but not at awful levels yet, although in the shape it is without some major work it will only fall down the rankings faster and faster.
Not that I like Spurs ground, for what it’s worth, and if work was going to make it like that I’d be against that, but yeah, some pretty important work needs doing at Old Trafford and honestly I’m not sure it’s doable. The infrastructure is so old that they seem to have already squeezed as much as they can out of it.
Read through the thread. People have been outlining all their issues with it for 40-odd pages.
I hang around with a group of mixed football fans and they don't like going to Old Trafford for games because it's more uncomfortable and the facilities are generally worse than those at other stadiums, even in terms of absolute basics like how crammed in you are, the condition of the bathrooms, the visibly deteriorated condition of the physical surroundings, etc.
Which means I end up having to attend away games more often instead, which sucks for me but is a fair enough point on their part. Attending games at OT is an objectively worse fan experience than at comprable stadiums. And if you're not in the lucky position of being able to attend league games regularly/easily and you have to actually plan ahead for the games you're going to spend (sometimes quite a bit of) money to see, why would you opt to see them in worse conditions?
Literally just said that I've been to the ground and I'm one of the ones moaning.
Is it really worth spending a billion quid when many of the complaints can be rectified for substantially less? Toilets, food, general appearence can surely be improved with some money put into the place, that stuff does not require a new stadium. You're not solving the seating situation but that's what old grounds are like. Surely the place would turn out quite well with a chunk of money put into it.
You can actually do something about the legroom. It's a really easy fix that happens an awful lot to relay the concrete to improve space but you'd lose capacity in doing so.
It badly needs better legroom, sometimes it's downright uncomfortable depending on where you sit (bottom tier especially).
Add in the need for wider concourses and better facilities, plus a new roof and you might as well rebuild it.
I don't think they're going to find renewing the current ground to an acceptable standard (as in, league leading as it should be) is gonna be cheaper than starting again.
It's also bollocks to say a new stadium would never achieve the romance. All you need to do is keep going to it for 17 years and the moments created there would give you the romance. I hate it when people use it as a justification for not moving with the times because it's such bullshit. Bricks, mortar, metal and glass with some paint and plastic seats, that's all OT is. The romance and memories you associate with it are from the club itself, something that could absolutely be replicated with some great matches and memories at a new ground.
I’ve been going since late 1970. Does that give me licence to moan?
Don't see why it wouldn't? Unless you are going to say "I miss Thatcher" in which case I'd probably leave it.
You're now talking about fan experience but you said before the stadium is in a bad way? There isn't anything wrong with it structurally, it's the make up of it that's the problem, which can be changed dependent on the figures involved. The stadium is over 100 years old, people are comparing it to stadiums that are 10-15 years old, or even younger than that, of course people aren't going to enjoy going to OT as much. But there's nothing wrong with it, shit legroom and dicey toilets but that's it, how long are you playing on spending in the toilets to admire the decor?
It isn't an easy fix, like you say more legroom = less seats and in turn, less revenue so its then a toss up if its worth the gain in fan experience over money.
A complete rebuild was never on the cards, it would cost far too much with the current inflation. Even expanding the south stand by the reported 16k seats might not even be worth the gain for the apparent £200m construction cost, as we'd only be gaining 13.5k seats for that money as we lost 2.5k seats reconfiguring the disabled access in the West stand.
The Emirates has been open 16 years, why don't you ask Arsenal fans if they have the same romance at the Emirates as they did at Highbury to back up your point? I'm sure they will disagree with you but hey, a football stadium is just bricks, mortar, steel, glass and a nice pot to piss in, no history involved
.The modern stadia is a soulless bowl, just like Wembley, great for legroom but when you're in the upper tiers, forget about atmosphere and being able to watch the game with a good enough view. Let me guess your next counterpoint to that, big screens?
correct.
There was a time, a long time ago(?), when people went to revel in the displays of fantastic United football and didn't even give the stadium a second thought. We were only too glad to be able to get into the ground!
The Emirates has been open 16 years, why don't you ask Arsenal fans if they have the same romance at the Emirates as they did at Highbury to back up your point? I'm sure they will disagree with you but hey, a football stadium is just bricks, mortar, steel, glass and a nice pot to piss in, no history involved
Mate, you'd be the one in 1910 saying United should've stayed at Bank Street rather than move to Old Trafford because of the memories.
I bet people moaned then about the soulless bowl that was OT.
And in reality that's what it is.
Old Trafford as redeveloped in 1994 was the prototype for all the soulless bowls developed ever since,
Or perhaps you'd be moaning back then because of the old Stretty with terraces and so on?
It's always, always been the matches played and the players and managers involved that create the memories. The ground itself just happened to paly host to it.
There's absolutely nothing to suggest that had Sir Alex presided over his term in a brand new stadium that you wouldn't be looking back with fondness for something built in 1986 (or any point from when he started winning things after that) rather than 1910. Think about it, honestly. You remember the good nights and the bad ones, but it's not like they can't happen again and again. There's nothing unique to Old Trafford as a structure that has contributed to us having fond memories of things that have happened there.
Ask Arsernal fans when they've been at the Emirates for as long as they'd been at Highbury and then see where it stacks up.
I think the reason regular fans don’t mind the stadium is the same with people pre cataract surgery, it gets bad ever so slowly they don’t realise how bad it is until they have the surgery.Mate, you'd be the one in 1910 saying United should've stayed at Bank Street rather than move to Old Trafford because of the memories.
I bet people moaned then about the soulless bowl that was OT.
And in reality that's what it is.
Old Trafford as redeveloped in 1994 was the prototype for all the soulless bowls developed ever since,
Or perhaps you'd be moaning back then because of the old Stretty with terraces and so on?
It's always, always been the matches played and the players and managers involved that create the memories. The ground itself just happened to paly host to it.
There's absolutely nothing to suggest that had Sir Alex presided over his term in a brand new stadium that you wouldn't be looking back with fondness for something built in 1986 (or any point from when he started winning things after that) rather than 1910. Think about it, honestly. You remember the good nights and the bad ones, but it's not like they can't happen again and again.
Ask Arsernal fans when they've been at the Emirates for as long as they'd been at Highbury and then see where it stacks up.
If you think OT back in '94 was the prototype for all soulless football stadia that came after it then you're so far wide off the mark.Mate, you'd be the one in 1910 saying United should've stayed at Bank Street rather than move to Old Trafford because of the memories.
I bet people moaned then about the soulless bowl that was OT.
And in reality that's what it is.
Old Trafford as redeveloped in 1994 was the prototype for all the soulless bowls developed ever since,
Or perhaps you'd be moaning back then because of the old Stretty with terraces and so on?
It's always, always been the matches played and the players and managers involved that create the memories. The ground itself just happened to paly host to it.
There's absolutely nothing to suggest that had Sir Alex presided over his term in a brand new stadium that you wouldn't be looking back with fondness for something built in 1986 (or any point from when he started winning things after that) rather than 1910. Think about it, honestly. You remember the good nights and the bad ones, but it's not like they can't happen again and again.
You're talking as if atmosphere never played a part or how OT was built/developed to accommodate that atmosphere. The fans played a huge part in creating that atmosphere at OT, hence why it was such a feared place to play for the opposition and you're simply discrediting the fans as if they were nothing.
You're talking if, buts and nothings in your last point, they didn't happen ffs so stop living some silly fantasy. I'm talking about OT, not something that has never materialised.
Old Trafford in 1994 was a one tiered bowl structure with some boxes at the top.
Nigh on every stadium that came afterwards was a variation on it.
Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Derby, Leicester, Southampton, etc all look extremely similar to what it was in 1994. They followed the same template If you can't see that then you've got your blinkers on.
Of course atmosphere plays a huge part in it but I don't know if you've realised it but you've literally sad 'the fans played a huge part in creating that atmosphere'. Guess what'll be there in a new ground too? Those same bloody fans. Making my point for me so thank you.
And the acoustics of the ground have been mentioned for the past decade or so as a reason to redevelop or at least look into improving the fan experience so that suggests that the current ground isn't designed to make the most noise possible.
One thing that is absolutely guaranteed in a new ground is that current stadium architects can completely design a ground to make the maximum amount of noise possible.
A building on its own doesn't do anything, the people inside it make the difference, that goes by your own words.
Tell me exactly what is it about Old Trafford that made us so successful to the point that the ifs and buts don't make a difference? We could've won all those titles and cups absolutely anywhere with the same players, manager and fans.
Nigh on every stadium that came afterwards was a variation on it.
Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Derby, Leicester, Southampton, etc all look extremely similar to what it was in 1994. They followed the same template If you can't see that then you've got your blinkers on.
Of course atmosphere plays a huge part in it but I don't know if you've realised it but you've literally sad 'the fans played a huge part in creating that atmosphere'. Guess what'll be there in a new ground too? Those same bloody fans. Making my point for me so thank you.
And the acoustics of the ground have been mentioned for the past decade or so as a reason to redevelop or at least look into improving the fan experience so that suggests that the current ground isn't designed to make the most noise possible.
One thing that is absolutely guaranteed in a new ground is that current stadium architects can completely design a ground to make the maximum amount of noise possible.
A building on its own doesn't do anything, the people inside it make the difference, that goes by your own words.
Tell me exactly what is it about Old Trafford that made us so successful to the point that the ifs and buts don't make a difference? We could've won all those titles and cups absolutely anywhere with the same players, manager and fans.
Hard disagree, it's far far better than most other PL stadiums, I went to all bar a couple of them last season (and compared to the grounds we go to in Europe it's a different league entirely compared to the majority), people just want to look for problems with it. The roof thing was ridiculous and should have been fixed much quicker than it was and granted there are issues with leg room in some areas, though I don't know exactly where as I can't remember the last time I had to sit for a game.
Spurs is one of the couple I missed last season, but by all accounts that is by far and away the best ground in the league but where else is supposedly better than Old Trafford? The Emirates is boring as feck, it's nowhere near steep enough and there is no atmosphere whatsoever to the place, looks pretty though I guess and there's plenty of leg room so you can keep your megastore bag in front of you if that's what matters? The Olympic stadium is a joke and the pitch is in a different postcode to the away end. If people think OT is cramped then Anfield would give them a nervous breakdown. The Etihad is pretty shite, St James is alright if you don't mind a chance of death when your team scores. Villa Park, Goodison, Elland Road are quite literally falling apart. Leicester's ground is fine as long as you don't mind another team in the league having the exact same stadium in a different colour (and a couple more in the league below).
I'm not saying I'm against OT being modernised but it's ridiculous how much criticism is levelled at the stadium when it's still a considerably better place to watch football than the majority of other grounds in the league.
My opinion on OT changes quite often. It's historic but also miles behind modern stadia. In an ideal world they will demolish all the stands and leave the pitch intact so they can build a new stadium around the very same pitch.
This would obviously mean that we would have to play our home games elsewhere (Carrington maybe, like Madrid did) but to keep the sacred turf of OT as our pitch would be perfect for me.
I love OT as a piece of engineering. I will be gutted to see the beautiful steel bracing holding the cantilever roofs up, be dismantled, but truth be told, the stadium is not fit to host arguably the biggest club in the world. 70+ thousand crammed in every fortnight in a stadium that wouldn't pass modern building regs is perfect for our owners.
This would obviously mean that we would have to play our home games elsewhere (Carrington maybe, like Madrid did) but to keep the sacred turf of OT as our pitch would be perfect for me.
I love OT as a piece of engineering. I will be gutted to see the beautiful steel bracing holding the cantilever roofs up, be dismantled, but truth be told, the stadium is not fit to host arguably the biggest club in the world. 70+ thousand crammed in every fortnight in a stadium that wouldn't pass modern building regs is perfect for our owners.
If we don't make any signings soon the fans will tear it down themselves. Amirite?
The only thing I will add to this topic is that I believe there has to be a way to renovate the stadium the same way that Real Madrid have done with the Santiago Bernabeu. Based on what I've seen from them, the top has been moved higher so people sitting higher would have a full view on the pitch and more. Instead of looking at the engineering firm that worked on Tottenham's stadium, I would call the guys who are behind the renovating process at the Bernabeu, which has to deal with limited space of their own with 4 streets bordering the stadium.
Anyone filled in the survey United have sent via email regarding the redevelopment of OT?
Yeah just did it this morning, they're asking the right questions but doubt they will act on it it.
Is it feck falling apart. They’d shut it down if it was anywhere near as bad as half of you make it out to be on here. You lads should go there sometime, it’s a magical place, even without a new lick of paint.
Another waste of a billion in a world that knows the value of nothing. So I say let it deteriorate. Build up a sinister level of evil dilapidation about the place so that away fans look over their shoulders in the dark and constantly fear pillars and steel girders might fall on them. I don't mean actually plan for a stadium disaster. It's just something good to have in your back pocket.
I love OT and can't bear the idea of knocking it down and building a new 'stadia' from scratch. It feels like an excessive and unnecessary solution to a problem in which there isn't even consensus about in the first place. I'd much rather go the Bernabau and Camp Nou approach and spend however much necessary to dramatically update and improve what is already there (I'm aware of the issues with the adjacent trainline). I know there's a hankering for constant development and building up in this world, but I can't help shake the feeling that it often does more harm than good in lots of instances. How does Anfield compare? Are lots of Liverpool fans desperate to knock it down and start again?
I also fundamentally disagree with the notion that it's just "bricks and mortar". Humans always attach symbolic and emotional meaning to things important to them. That emotional sort of thinking will obviously feel like an impediment to progress for those wanting a new stadium for United, but if said progress amounts to slightly more leg room, shorter queue times for a bottle of beer, and massive screens then it doesn't feel worth it.
I also fundamentally disagree with the notion that it's just "bricks and mortar". Humans always attach symbolic and emotional meaning to things important to them. That emotional sort of thinking will obviously feel like an impediment to progress for those wanting a new stadium for United, but if said progress amounts to slightly more leg room, shorter queue times for a bottle of beer, and massive screens then it doesn't feel worth it.