Ok to be a bad loser but not this way ...

ryansgirl

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I have great respect for Sir Alex Ferguson and I wish the Great Man had not originally intended to retire, as the price we paid for that included losing Steve McLaren who was insulted by the Board`s refusal to consider him as a managerial contender.

That was bloody disgraceful and I believe it to some extent has been responsible for not winning the Premiership and Champions` League. Sir Alex is not infallible and sometimes you need to step back and have someone knowledgeable give you their view on what needs to be done with a football team.

Sir Alex Ferguson is not a good loser and I support that to a point. If our lads are hurting deeply about this season and angry that they lost (presuming unfortunately that Arsenal will get the result it needs at Everton)then that means they will come back more strongly for it the next season.

Being a bad loser can make a winning season the next time. However, I do wish Sir Alex would cease his refusal to give Arsenal credit. I am not saying he has to praise them or in any way pretend he is not so disappointed.

But it is clear that Arsenal has been the outstanding team in the Premiership and I don`t see Sir Alex`s logic in talking up how great Manchester United were in Europe if they could not cut it when it mattered the most. In the Champions` League, the Red Devils faltered at Old Trafford and that performance set them up for bitter disappointment in Germany.

I am not slating our lads - I am proud to be a Red Devil whether we win anything or not. Sir Alex is only human and can make mistakes, too.

However, Red Devils (rightly so) call Arsene Wenger a whinger given some of the foolish and weak excuses he has made in the past when watching Manchester United coast past Arsenal.I don`t want Sir Alex Ferguson carrying on about Manchester United being the best when clearly they are not and were not this season. The best team in Europe will lift the European Cup and that will be either Leverkausen or Real Madrid.

In this kind of public refusal to face facts Sir Alex is putting himself in the company of Arsene the Whinger. As a Red Devil I don`t like to see that.

Just acknowledge that credit goes to Arsenal and Leverkausen and leave it at that. The best way to be a bad loser is to prepare for the future, and come back even stronger after the lessons learned the hard way this season. <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
You can rely on the girls for logic and common-sense. :cool:
 
I think that mind games are still active since the PL isn't completely beyond us.

And I don't think that Arsenal are a better team than us. If they win the PL then they deserve it by definition i.e. they have been the best over the entire season but I think that we are currently the best side in the country by some margin. However, I think we are far from good enough particularly in defense.
 
Originally posted by giggsgirl:
<strong>

In this kind of public refusal to face facts Sir Alex is putting himself in the company of Arsene the Whinger. As a Red Devil I don`t like to see that.

Just acknowledge that credit goes to Arsenal and Leverkausen and leave it at that. The best way to be a bad loser is to prepare for the future, and come back even stronger after the lessons learned the hard way this season. <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Totally agree. Leverkusun beat us over 2 legs and deserved to go through. It's unfair to say they were lucky. And as much as it pains me to say this, it looks like Arsenal's going to end up at the top of the table at the end of the season. So, they deserve to be champions...end of story.
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Difficult one.

As has been said, the PL is still mathematically possible and it is Fergie's job to employ all fair and legal means at his disposal to create an advantage for his team. If that includes mind games, then so be it.

The thing about Fergie is knowing where the mind games end and the bunker style mentality begins.

We have spent a part of this season suffering a failure to learn the lessons of the latter part of 2000/2001. During that period, the team did not really move forward (although of course we still won the league !) and others used that opportunity to regroup and catch up.

Performances since December 2001 have, of course, been much more encouraging. But we still lost at home to Liverpool & Middlesborough because of superior defensive strategies on the part of the opposition and soon we will have a point to prove against Arsenal.

We need to keep learning from the best at home and abroad and refuse to believe our own hype. In that way, and with the resources we have, the team will stay on top.

Old Trafford must become our fortress again. But never a bunker.

<img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
 
Originally posted by Wibble:
<strong>
And I don't think that Arsenal are a better team than us. If they win the PL then they deserve it by definition i.e. they have been the best over the entire season but I think that we are currently the best side in the country by some margin. However, I think we are far from good enough particularly in defense.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You're the best team in the country by some margin, yet you are far from good enough?

Do Arsenal have an obvious achillies heel a la your defence?

They are clear in the league, in the FA Cup Final, and went out of the CL in an extremely tough group which I doubt you'd have qualified from..

They are the best side in the country
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I disagree. On recent form we are by far the best team in the UK. Arsenal, assuming they don't choke, have only just scraped the PL in a year when we lost twice as many games as usual due to our defensive frailties. They are a good but limited side who have proved year after year that they can't hack it in Europe. Liverpool seem to have taken a step down from last year, Leeds and Chelsea are underachieving as usual. Newcastle have performed above themselves but are still nowhere near good enough to win the PL.

We are the best side around on current form but nowhere near good enough at present to be classed with Real which is the standard we should be achieving.
 
Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>Do Arsenal have an obvious achillies heel a la your defence?</strong><hr></blockquote>

No. Achilles was a God with a flaw, not a donkey with a limp ;)
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Originally posted by Wibble:
<strong>I disagree. On recent form we are by far the best team in the UK. Arsenal, assuming they don't choke, have only just scraped the PL in a year when we lost twice as many games as usual due to our defensive frailties. They are a good but limited side who have proved year after year that they can't hack it in Europe. Liverpool seem to have taken a step down from last year, Leeds and Chelsea are underachieving as usual. Newcastle have performed above themselves but are still nowhere near good enough to win the PL.

We are the best side around on current form but nowhere near good enough at present to be classed with Real which is the standard we should be achieving.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You're making some interesting points, but how is reaching the quarter-final of the Champion's League and sitting in the same league position as last year, all without our manager, a 'step-back'.
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"Totally agree. Leverkusun beat us over 2 legs and deserved to go through. It's unfair to say they were lucky. And as much as it pains me to say this, it looks like Arsenal's going to end up at the top of the table at the end of the season. So, they deserve to be champions...end of story"

2-2 and 1-1 , beat MU over two legs? the end of the story has yet to be written. <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
 
Originally posted by Melbourne Red:
<strong>

You're making some interesting points, but how is reaching the quarter-final of the Champion's League and sitting in the same league position as last year, all without our manager, a 'step-back'.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Last year you won everything you were up for. This year you really needed to progress which IMO you haven't. Your manager's illness may well have been a factor in which case you should do even better next year (no irony intended ;) ).

No great insult meant (not in this thread at least ;) ) but if I was a Liverpool supporter I would be as bitterly disappointed as I will be if we come away empty handed. With our defensive frailties this year was your best chance of the PL. I can't see us losing 8 games next year.
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Originally posted by Wibble:
<strong>I disagree. On recent form we are by far the best team in the UK. Arsenal, assuming they don't choke, have only just scraped the PL in a year when we lost twice as many games as usual due to our defensive frailties. They are a good but limited side who have proved year after year that they can't hack it in Europe. Liverpool seem to have taken a step down from last year, Leeds and Chelsea are underachieving as usual. Newcastle have performed above themselves but are still nowhere near good enough to win the PL.

We are the best side around on current form but nowhere near good enough at present to be classed with Real which is the standard we should be achieving.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So this current form, is it your gut feeling or the facts you are considering?
What would you consider current form?
Current form over the last 8 games puts arse on top, LFC second and you third, but these are just the facts, dont let them get in the way of a good argument eh.
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PL results since the new year and semi in the Cl(which we threw away IMO) plus games like Chelsea and Deportivo is one way. Picking the number of games that suit your own arguments is another. A bit pointless really.

If you read my posts you will note that I am not arguing that we are wonderful/perfect etc. Just that we are still the best side in England (just) while we need to improve our defense.

I'm sure you won't agree with me on that point but don't you agree that with my points regarding Arsenal, Liverpool, Leeds, Chelsea and Newcastle? I didn't think that what I said was at all controversial. I can't imagine that many people at Anfield are happy with their season and Chelsea and Leeds have underperformed by any standard you want to set. Arsenal will (rightly) consider themselves the best in England if they win the double but the PL isn't over yet and they haven't been playing that well even though they have been getting the results. They have been crap in Europe, particularly away from home, for years now and if United were playing as well as usual then the PL would have been out of their reach weeks ago.
 
Originally posted by Wibble:
<strong>I disagree. On recent form we are by far the best team in the UK. Arsenal, assuming they don't choke, have only just scraped the PL in a year when we lost twice as many games as usual due to our defensive frailties. They are a good but limited side who have proved year after year that they can't hack it in Europe. Liverpool seem to have taken a step down from last year, Leeds and Chelsea are underachieving as usual. Newcastle have performed above themselves but are still nowhere near good enough to win the PL.

We are the best side around on current form but nowhere near good enough at present to be classed with Real which is the standard we should be achieving.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Why are you on recent form? You were outclassed twice in Europe by a team that Arsenal destroyed at home...

You lost at home to Boro, when did Arsenal last mess up in the league?

You went out of the Cup to Boro, Arsenal have just won the competition?

You seem to acknowledge your poor defence but make an allowance for it when talking up your side. Your defence is a huge weakness, Arse do not have a weakness.

If Arsenal are a limited side then I'd hate to have to play against a top class one....
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Originally posted by Wibble:
<strong>PL results since the new year and semi in the Cl(which we threw away IMO) plus games like Chelsea and Deportivo is one way. Picking the number of games that suit your own arguments is another. A bit pointless really.


.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That is exactly what you're doing tho?

Arse's form over the season has been much better than yours..

Because they're better than you.
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Relax, people, 'cos <a href="http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,710147,00.html" target="_blank">Alex and Arsene are really good mates</a> :)
 
Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>That is exactly what you're doing tho?
Arse's form over the season has been much better than yours..
Because they're better than you.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bullshit,
Arsenal have played steady all yr granted and amazingly havnt hit a bad patch all season like "all" clubs supposedly do.
We went through a transition last autumn with a new cb, mew midfielder, new strikeforce & new tactics.
Since weve settled down weve been the best team in England, as bad as our season has been were still in it with 2 games to go.
If we dont get it this yr you can bet your life well be the favourites next yr.
Where will Liverpool be then? Making another 5 yr plan after Houllier is sacked after 5 yrs of fuch all?
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Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>Why are you on recent form? You were outclassed twice in Europe by a team that Arsenal destroyed at home...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Outclassed twice? So how come they couldn´t beat us in either game?

We went out on away goals. That´s as tight as it gets.

BTW, funny that you mention their record in Europe this season because ours is much better.

<strong>Arse do not have a weakness.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Every team has a weakness. If they don´t, how come they couldn´t hack it in Europe?
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Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

Bullshit,
Arsenal have played steady all yr granted and amazingly havnt hit a bad patch all season like "all" clubs supposedly do.
We went through a transition last autumn with a new cb, mew midfielder, new strikeforce & new tactics.
Since weve settled down weve been the best team in England, as bad as our season has been were still in it with 2 games to go.
If we dont get it this yr you can bet your life well be the favourites next yr.
Where will Liverpool be then? Making another 5 yr plan after Houllier is sacked after 5 yrs of fuch all?</strong><hr></blockquote>

So you haven't won the title due to your failings and the fact that you signed new players?

Mind you, Arsenal have got a lot of points haven't they?

You may well be the favourites next season, bookies are often cagey about dying champions...and the public will no doubt expect you to improve..


But thats all irrelevant at the moment..

You're simply not as good as Double winners elect Arsenal
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Originally posted by Jens:
<strong>

Every team has a weakness. If they don´t, how come they couldn´t hack it in Europe?</strong><hr></blockquote>

They didn't need to beat you tho did they?

2-2 away in a match they were unlucky not to win..


In Germany they stopped going forward in the last twenty minutes and simply made sure that you didn;t score..

If they needed to win that match I believe they would have as they were the better side..

Arse had a very difficult group, it was no disgrace that they went out..

Just face it Mancs, you are no longer the best English team
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Here's the crux of the problem with a lot of you Mancs.

Graciousness and respect seems to be something many of you are lacking - not all of you - but too many of you.

It's very simple LUCK NEVER WON OR LOST A CHAMPIONSHIP . P E R I O D

Were you lucky that Arse Chelsea Leed and Pool never performed up to their respective expectations in the last three title winning years of years .

How bloody foolish I would look if I said that .

How you would laugh at me .

Well ...............

We have have lost three games so far . You have lost eight .

We have beaten EVERY team

We are unbeaten AWAY for a season

What drugs are you lot collectively on ??!!

There's your problem - if your manager had some good grace and manners and respect and less arrogance then maybe his fans would be the same
AND just MAYBE your club would be a bit more popular and you wuold not suffer the joy of the nation when you faltered <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />

Learn if you can although I doubt that untill Ferguson goes .

Seeing as now he's lost it I can tell you now the rest of the footballing world will be only too happy to see him stay on for another two years

3-1 to the Arse to complete the double on Wednesday and I hope you can all appreciate it

<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
 
Sorry, United are still the best team in the country. The press are all calling this season a disaster. What planet are they on? At the end of a long season, IF we had not made ONE of the early season mistakes that were costing us matches, and the ball that Ze Roberto cleared off the line had gone on another half an inch to cross it, we would be in the Champions League Final, and going into the Arsenal game needing a win to take us top. Lets get it in proportion!
 
Originally posted by Wibble:
<strong>PL results since the new year and semi in the Cl(which we threw away IMO) plus games like Chelsea and Deportivo is one way. Picking the number of games that suit your own arguments is another. A bit pointless really.

If you read my posts you will note that I am not arguing that we are wonderful/perfect etc. Just that we are still the best side in England (just) while we need to improve our defense.

I'm sure you won't agree with me on that point but don't you agree that with my points regarding Arsenal, Liverpool, Leeds, Chelsea and Newcastle? I didn't think that what I said was at all controversial. I can't imagine that many people at Anfield are happy with their season and Chelsea and Leeds have underperformed by any standard you want to set. Arsenal will (rightly) consider themselves the best in England if they win the double but the PL isn't over yet and they haven't been playing that well even though they have been getting the results. They have been crap in Europe, particularly away from home, for years now and if United were playing as well as usual then the PL would have been out of their reach weeks ago.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not picking the number of games to suit my argument, as i said what do you consider current form? the last eight games seems a fair indication of CURRENT form to me.
As for Europe, I though the argument was for the best team in england.
I am not happy with Lfc's season but I am not that unhappy either. The fact that we sustained our challenge as long as we did was a positive progression as far as I am concerned and q/f of the cl aint too bad for a first attempt. We can all say if this and if that things would have been different but what's done is done.
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Graciousness and respect seems to be something many of you are lacking - not all of you - but too many of you.

-------------------------------------------------
Why should we give it or you demand it? You're not f'kin Real Madrid! we lost 8 matches this season, how many have you lost? With that difference, not until the last couple of matches have you been able to say with any confidence that you'll probably win the PL! We lost 6 before xmas -not something we usually do or are expected to do again ( the bubble's burst, is it all over?)- and you couldn't cash in by steaming ahead the way we have before. Wouldn't get carried away with your own brilliance just yet!
 
Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>


Why are you on recent form? You were outclassed twice in Europe by a team that Arsenal destroyed at home...

You lost at home to Boro, when did Arsenal last mess up in the league?

You went out of the Cup to Boro, Arsenal have just won the competition?

You seem to acknowledge your poor defence but make an allowance for it when talking up your side. Your defence is a huge weakness, Arse do not have a weakness.

If Arsenal are a limited side then I'd hate to have to play against a top class one....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Outclassed by Leverkusen? Please! Held to unsatisfactory draws while playing rather poorly at worst.

You could argue about the definition of current form forever. I happen to think that we are still the best team in England but only by a worryingly small margin. Arsenal beating Leverkusen at home no more makes them better than United than us outclassing Deportivo makes us champions of Europe.

If Arsenal win the double they will have done so because they deserve it. They will rightly consider themselves the best team in England no matter how much I don't think it is true. A good season yes but considering the poor showing by their competitors in the PL this year hardly a convincing one. Arsenal are nowhere near the standard of the better United teams of the last decade or the Liverpool teams that dominated the 70's and 80's. I'm not being a poor loser, merely giving my opinion of their achievement this year. In fact I wasn't even originally doing even that. I was simply stating that we are still the best side in England.

And I do more than acknowledge our poor defense. I openly state that it is sub-standard. We built our decade of success on a rock solid defense (or the closest thing United will ever get to rock solid with our attacking tendencies). Apart from Gary Neville I am not completely convinced about any of our back four (5 if you include the goalie) for a number of reasons. Age, youth, inexperience, lack of concentration and being injury prone are problems that can rightfully be leveled at a number of members of our defense. The fact that Blanc and Irwin look so good when they now lack pace is an inditment of our defense as a whole. I don't suscribe to wholesale changes but I do think that we need at least 2 new defensive players. A CB and a LB, maybe more depending who leaves.

Arsenal may have no obvious weakness but they also don't have the quality players that United do. Pires may have had a good season but he wouldn't get into the United first team regularly. Henry is class but I wouldn't swap him for Ole. Viera is about the only player of theirs that I would touch with a barge pole. And it would no doubt be a fecking expensive bargepole.
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Originally posted by Jopub the Gooner:
<strong>Here's the crux of the problem with a lot of you Mancs.

Graciousness and respect seems to be something many of you are lacking - not all of you - but too many of you.

It's very simple LUCK NEVER WON OR LOST A CHAMPIONSHIP . P E R I O D

Were you lucky that Arse Chelsea Leed and Pool never performed up to their respective expectations in the last three title winning years of years .

How bloody foolish I would look if I said that .

How you would laugh at me .

Well ...............

We have have lost three games so far . You have lost eight .

We have beaten EVERY team

We are unbeaten AWAY for a season

What drugs are you lot collectively on ??!!

There's your problem - if your manager had some good grace and manners and respect and less arrogance then maybe his fans would be the same
AND just MAYBE your club would be a bit more popular and you wuold not suffer the joy of the nation when you faltered <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />

Learn if you can although I doubt that untill Ferguson goes .

Seeing as now he's lost it I can tell you now the rest of the footballing world will be only too happy to see him stay on for another two years

3-1 to the Arse to complete the double on Wednesday and I hope you can all appreciate it

<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

If you win the double, as seems likely you will have done so because you deserve it over the season. Luck (or lack of luck) has feck all to do with our season. Our defense has. Despite our early season form I still think we are the best team in England but this doesn't meant that I will dispute that you have had a good season or got what you deserved.
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Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>

That is exactly what you're doing tho?

Arse's form over the season has been much better than yours..

Because they're better than you.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I was stating an opinion but pointing out that current form based on x, y or x weeks/games/months or whatever was a bit pointless. If I was interested in such arguments I would no doubt delve into the arcives and feck around with the results until I got a period that worked for my argument. But I didn't cos in effect I was only stating an opinion and offering more opinions on other teams season's.

Arsenal, assuming they win the double, will be the best team over the season. No argument. I still think we are the best team in England but that the huge margin has reduced to a waffer thin one this season.
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Originally posted by Wibble:
<strong>


Arsenal may have no obvious weakness but they also don't have the quality players that United do. Pires may have had a good season but he wouldn't get into the United first team regularly. Henry is class but I wouldn't swap him for Ole. Viera is about the only player of theirs that I would touch with a barge pole. And it would no doubt be a fecking expensive bargepole.</strong><hr></blockquote>


What the feck???

Ahhh right....I see now..yeah you're the best team in the league still...its beginning to make sense

You had me going there for a minute Wibs...

;)
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United have lost 8 matches in the PL..i think Arse have lost 3 (so far) that unfortunately, by definition mean that Arsenal have been the best team in the league this year. And any team that loses so few matches deserve that accolade.
United have at times played the best football but we're not the best team. Roll on Wed though and we'll show the Arse what we are capable off (hope that dont come back to haunt me <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" /> )
 
Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>


Ahhh right....I see now..yeah you're the best team in the league still...its beginning to make sense

</strong><hr></blockquote>


I would expect you to say that Liverpool are the best team in the league. It's what supporters do. Might have no bearing on the facts, but that's what support is.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


I would expect you to say that Liverpool are the best team in the league. It's what supporters do. Might have no bearing on the facts, but that's what support is.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Nonsense

What's the point in deceiving yourself?

Do you think Sunderland fans should believe that their team is the best, in terms of quality, in the division?

If they don't are they not true supporters?

Or do you think some of them can understand that the likes of Arsenal are a better team than they are?
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Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>


Or do you think some of them can understand that the likes of Arsenal are a better team than they are?</strong><hr></blockquote>

i suppose they are, just like Valencia are better than Real and Dortmund are better than Bayern Munich and Leverkusen.

;)
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Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>


Nonsense

What's the point in deceiving yourself?

Do you think Sunderland fans should believe that their team is the best, in terms of quality, in the division?

If they don't are they not true supporters?

Or do you think some of them can understand that the likes of Arsenal are a better team than they are?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't misunderstand me.

United are the best team in the league. To me.

At times I think they play as good a football as any team, but I know they aren't the best in the literal sense. I think the potential is there if they could achieve a certain level of consistency. This season Arsenal have been the better team no question. But to me, United are the best.

Some times people are deluded, but others are more than aware of their team's shortcomings, but they don't matter. That's what I mean about being the best.
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How about we define recent form as PL games since 12/12/01 <img src="graemlins/angel.gif" border="0" alt="[Angel]" />

United P 21 - 55 points
Arsenal P 21 - 52 points
Liverpool P 22 - 42 points <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

Bet that convinces you I'm right :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Wibble:
<strong>How about we define recent form as PL games since 12/12/01 <img src="graemlins/angel.gif" border="0" alt="[Angel]" />

United P 21 - 55 points
Arsenal P 21 - 52 points
Liverpool P 22 - 42 points <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

Bet that convinces you I'm right :rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>


Good point Wibble..

Now you've totally got me.. ;)
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

Don't misunderstand me.

United are the best team in the league. To me.

At times I think they play as good a football as any team, but I know they aren't the best in the literal sense. I think the potential is there if they could achieve a certain level of consistency. This season Arsenal have been the better team no question. But to me, United are the best.

Some times people are deluded, but others are more than aware of their team's shortcomings, but they don't matter. That's what I mean about being the best.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So you're saying that the likes of Wibble are deluded in their blind faith for Man Utd?

Very well

I agree..
;)
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Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>


Good point Wibble..

Now you've totally got me.. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

I though the blinding light of statistical logic (although to be pedantic they are numbers not stats :rolleyes: ) would bring you to your senses.

I must admit I was shocked and not a little amused at the figures for your lot.
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Isn't it now time for Itchy and Scratchy to call Livvie a scouser for a lack of blind faith?

;)
 
Originally posted by Wibble:
<strong>Isn't it now time for Itchy and Scratchy to call Livvie a scouser for a lack of blind faith?

;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

:D

What does "best" mean anyway.

When we lost the league to Arsenal in 1998, we came back to win everything.

So "best" is only a temporary thing. And look at Leeds the season after they won - they could have been relegated!

"Best" means most consistent - and that's us. :D

;)
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