Off The Pitch | Big Decisions the Management Team MUST Get Right

Lentwood

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I have been very encouraged by what I have seen so far from ETH with respect the footballing-side. It's clear he is a demanding taskmaster but is able to drive players to give more without upsetting/alienating them. It's also clear that he is very strong tactically, is a good coach and has strong ideas about how he wants to play.

However...my concern is that whenever we have had positive starts under previous managers, there has been a collective 'relaxation' amongst the SMT and the players. Standards slip bit-by-bit, bad decisions are made and/or decisions are not made that should be made. Before we know it, we're back to the same lazy, lethargic performances and we end-up back to square one.

So, what big decisions do we think ETH and the SMT need to get right to turn this promising start into something bigger than that and create a side capable of challenging for major trophies?

For me, the key decisions which must be made are...

1) Ronaldo must leave at the earliest opportunity.

The club should no longer be seen as a retirement home for ageing CFs. We need young, hungry, talented footballers who are coachable. Not players at the end of their careers who demand huge wages and who can't or won't adapt. This should improve us on the pitch but it's also about setting the tone for the profile of player we have in our squad and whom we target in the transfer market.

2) DDG must not get a new contract.

This one makes me very, very nervous. I think it's clear that, whilst DDG was once one of the very best in the World, he's no longer a good goalkeeper, nor a good 'modern' goalkeeper. When we then factor in his insane salary, the fact he's been part of the furniture in a failing side for a decade (not his fault...but still) and also the fact he's unlikely to want to be a #2, then we have to let him leave on a free. If we get this decision wrong and give DDG a new contract then personally I think that's a huge blow to the idea that the club have learnt lessons from previous mistakes.

3) Maguire should be moved on and we should appoint a new club captain

I for one think Harry Maguire has been treated poorly by United fans at times and has been scapegoated. However, we're not here to have a debate about his footballing ability (or lack thereof in some people's opinion), instead, we need to consider the practicalities of having the club captain and an England regular sitting on the bench week-in, week out. Maguire has become synonymous with Solskjaer's tenure and ultimately, his failings. It's become a distraction and I feel it's now best for all parties just to move him on.

4) Get rid of the lads who don't play on a regular basis

Again, this thread is not about debating on-pitch issues and it's not about arguing about who is and who is not worth keeping. All I will say, and I think it's something that we can all agree with, is that if players are only playing a small handful of games each season, then whatever we might think about them/their ability, then it's pointless having them at the club. There's no benefit to anybody in having lads sitting about playing 5/6 games every season, it does nobody any good and can foster ill-feeling and disillusionment

So what are the other key decisions ETH and the management team MUST get right if we're to progress to the next level?
 
Massive Spanner said:
we MUST buy the next Messi
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While I think your jesting here, I actually think you've got a point. Under sir Alex, he was able to sign young players that he knew would be world class in the future and for the time did pay the premium to get them in eg Rooney and Rio. But he also sign Ronaldo at a good price to.

One of the most exciting young players I feel is gettable is the Winger for Napoli, nicknamed funnily enough as the Georgian Messi. It's not a priority position, but sometimes if a player is gettable and he has all the tools to be a world class player, sometimes you just have to go for him, i feel this player is one of them. He's also young enough to mould into a different position.

I think we need to move on from the flavour of the month type signings eg sancho, VDB etc etc and actually put the solid miles in to find players we in most cases don't necessarily know anything about. The current way we do business of buying high, selling low (or in most cases not selling at all) isn't sustainable and just hasn't and doesn't work.

It's a bit early to say anything about our signings so far under ETH on the pitch, but the club have probably over spent by 50+ million. eg, Anthony was probably 30m too much, casamiro 20m too much, martinez 20m too much. This isn't ETH fault, this is our boards fault.

I'm patiant enough for ETH to have a couple more summers to shape the squad and then maybe then, we can splurge the cash on a few established stars to get ourselves up to the level we need. There's no shortcuts here, we have tried shortcuts for a decade with little success, it's time to plan it out and stick to the plan
 
Steve Bruce said:
While I think your jesting here, I actually think you've got a point. Under sir Alex, he was able to sign young players that he knew would be world class in the future and for the time did pay the premium to get them in eg Rooney and Rio. But he also sign Ronaldo at a good price to.

One of the most exciting young players I feel is gettable is the Winger for Napoli, nicknamed funnily enough as the Georgian Messi. It's not a priority position, but sometimes if a player is gettable and he has all the tools to be a world class player, sometimes you just have to go for him, i feel this player is one of them. He's also young enough to mould into a different position.

I think we need to move on from the flavour of the month type signings eg sancho, VDB etc etc and actually put the solid miles in to find players we in most cases don't necessarily know anything about. The current way we do business of buying high, selling low (or in most cases not selling at all) isn't sustainable and just hasn't and doesn't work.

It's a bit early to say anything about our signings so far under ETH on the pitch, but the club have probably over spent by 50+ million. eg, Anthony was probably 30m too much, casamiro 20m too much, martinez 20m too much. This isn't ETH fault, this is our boards fault.

I'm patiant enough for ETH to have a couple more summers to shape the squad and then maybe then, we can splurge the cash on a few established stars to get ourselves up to the level we need. There's no shortcuts here, we have tried shortcuts for a decade with little success, it's time to plan it out and stick to the plan
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Imagine our board negotiating with Napolis board... They would take us to the cleaners, to put it mildly.
 
Great thread, as it's never too early to be thinking about what club management need to do next summer to set us up for a proper PL challenge next season. Picking up on some of the points made in the OP:

Ronaldo, time to say goodbye at the end of this season. There's no doubt that we should not pick up the option on Ronaldo's contract next season. He's not "The Problem" that many of us talked about last season, but he's definitely part of the future. I write this on different threads every day or so, so I'll write it again here -- we need to bring in a clinical finisher to replace Ronaldo. Martial is not reliable enough and even if he became reliable this season we need another striker. For me, this is not a debatable proposition.

De Gea must stay for another season or two. I get that almost everyone here wants to get rid of De Gea because he's not a modern keeper. But there truly aren't that many keepers, whether ancient or modern, who can perform at Dave's level. He saves shots that only a few like Allison and Neuer can dream of saving. I'm not going to turn this into a paragraph defending Dave, but I'll just briefly here that our play out of the back has improved tremendously by ditching Maguire, Lindelof and AWB in favor of Varane, Martinez and Dalot. And until he took a dip in form, Malacia was a vast improvement over the Shaw we saw last season. Bringing in a new keeper next season downgrades us at shot stopping.

Maguire needs to go, unless he's willing to stay as our third choice CB. We're set at CB with Varane and Martinez. Obviously we need depth at CB and Maguire gives us great depth, but Maguire can't be a squad man for us. Best for him that he moves on, but if he's willing to be a good sport and be our third choice at CB, I'm ok with that.

Get rid of lads who don't play on a regular basis. Surely this must mean Jones, but perhaps also AWB. This might also mean Fred, who gets in plenty of minutes but is a disaster almost every performance. And surely this doesn't mean younger players like Garnacho. This goes without saying and is part of the ongoing squad management every top club deals with. Not much to say on this point.

It's still early in the season, but we've seen enough to have developed some general observations about what to do going into 23/24. Above all else, we need to bring in a clinical finisher. When we see chance after chance go wasted, the mind is boggled. We drop points because we can't score and when we drop points, I get sad.

We need to honest conversation about Bruno. I'm not ready to state that we need to replace him, but he's been struggling for too long and he's become more liability than asset. Maybe that changes against Spurs and Chelsea, we'll see. We may already have the Bruno replacement on the squad already -- Jadon Sancho -- but we would clearly need to experiment with Sancho in a more central position first. I'd like to see that soon.

We need depth at RB. I like the job Dalot is doing, although I'd like to see more dynamic play in the attacking third from him. But who comes in for Dalot when he needs to come off? AWB has collapsed as a footballer. I think Brandon Williams is still on the squad and even though he did a fantastic job for us 2-3 seasons ago something has gone wrong with him. This needs to be addressed.
 
Lentwood said:
I have been very encouraged by what I have seen so far from ETH with respect the footballing-side. It's clear he is a demanding taskmaster but is able to drive players to give more without upsetting/alienating them. It's also clear that he is very strong tactically, is a good coach and has strong ideas about how he wants to play.

However...my concern is that whenever we have had positive starts under previous managers, there has been a collective 'relaxation' amongst the SMT and the players. Standards slip bit-by-bit, bad decisions are made and/or decisions are not made that should be made. Before we know it, we're back to the same lazy, lethargic performances and we end-up back to square one.

So, what big decisions do we think ETH and the SMT need to get right to turn this promising start into something bigger than that and create a side capable of challenging for major trophies?

For me, the key decisions which must be made are...

1) Ronaldo must leave at the earliest opportunity.

The club should no longer be seen as a retirement home for ageing CFs. We need young, hungry, talented footballers who are coachable. Not players at the end of their careers who demand huge wages and who can't or won't adapt. This should improve us on the pitch but it's also about setting the tone for the profile of player we have in our squad and whom we target in the transfer market.

2) DDG must not get a new contract.

This one makes me very, very nervous. I think it's clear that, whilst DDG was once one of the very best in the World, he's no longer a good goalkeeper, nor a good 'modern' goalkeeper. When we then factor in his insane salary, the fact he's been part of the furniture in a failing side for a decade (not his fault...but still) and also the fact he's unlikely to want to be a #2, then we have to let him leave on a free. If we get this decision wrong and give DDG a new contract then personally I think that's a huge blow to the idea that the club have learnt lessons from previous mistakes.

3) Maguire should be moved on and we should appoint a new club captain

I for one think Harry Maguire has been treated poorly by United fans at times and has been scapegoated. However, we're not here to have a debate about his footballing ability (or lack thereof in some people's opinion), instead, we need to consider the practicalities of having the club captain and an England regular sitting on the bench week-in, week out. Maguire has become synonymous with Solskjaer's tenure and ultimately, his failings. It's become a distraction and I feel it's now best for all parties just to move him on.

4) Get rid of the lads who don't play on a regular basis

Again, this thread is not about debating on-pitch issues and it's not about arguing about who is and who is not worth keeping. All I will say, and I think it's something that we can all agree with, is that if players are only playing a small handful of games each season, then whatever we might think about them/their ability, then it's pointless having them at the club. There's no benefit to anybody in having lads sitting about playing 5/6 games every season, it does nobody any good and can foster ill-feeling and disillusionment

So what are the other key decisions ETH and the management team MUST get right if we're to progress to the next level?
Click to expand...


1. Tough to do considering the wages and lack of interest from any of the clubs that could afford him. I think he's going to have to lower his demands of destination and wages himself if we are going to move him on.

2. Agreed, and I think this is pretty likely. It's been said repeatedly that ETH wants a new keeper, but for his first summer I think he realized he was going to run out of money so DDG's replacement could take a back seat. Assume we'll do that business next summer.

3. Of course, he's finished here and the club needs to swallow their pride and take the huge discount fee others might offer for him.

4. Not sure what you mean by this one. You have to have some semblance of depth and level of players that are okay with not playing often but stay at the club.


Some add-ons for me:

5. Bruno. I've been of the opinion for well over a year now that he's never to be a starter in a top side given his basic style of play and qualities both good and bad. ETH/management is going to have to see this one way or another if we are ever going to progress, otherwise we'll be stuck a level below the top teams. We already handed him a fat new contract for no real reason last summer, so it's going to have to start with signing some competition for his spot and benching him for periods.

6. Making top youngsters a priority. We seemingly feel like we don't need to sign top rated teenagers before they've "proved themselves" at a bigger club first, but I think this philosophy is a stupid one and is cause for us having to break the bank a few years down the road to try and sign these players when they become young stars. Amad hasn't broken into the team yet, and maybe he won't at all, but that level of signing is what we should strive to do every summer whether they become huge successes or not. It's how Madrid always seem to reload, as they aren't afraid to spend 30m on a young Brazilian who's never been to Europe because they know if he's the real deal he'll be worth 5 times that in no time. Signing players to the youth academy is great, but I'm more interested in going to the next level of that and being aggressive with the top teenagers in the world and pursuing them. They aren't hard to find, as many transfer muppets even on the Cafe could rattle off a list of 10 top talents that aren't at a big club yet.
 
Most important one:

The decision of when to sack the current manager, and bring in a new one. A decision we've fecked up repeatedly for the last 10 years by letting no hopers overstay
 
Selling/releasing Ronaldo, DDG and Maguire means we would need to sign a starting striker (likely 80M+), a starting goalkeeper (likely 50M+) and a third/fourth choice CB (likely 20-30M). Ideally we should be buying a RB as well, who is also likely to cost a good sum.

It's highly unlikely we'll be shelling out another 150M next summer though. Especially when we won't be getting any fee for Ronaldo or DDG.

Considering this, I'm afraid we might decide to extend De Gea's contract, which would be a huge mistake given we can't play out from the back. Let's hope we don't do it.
 
Skills said:
Most important one:

The decision of when to sack the current manager, and bring in a new one. A decision we've fecked up repeatedly for the last 10 years by letting no hopers overstay
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting that ETH should be sacked and/or that he is a no-hoper?
 
jem said:
Are you suggesting that ETH should be sacked and/or that he is a no-hoper?
Click to expand...

Not right now he isn't. But that probably will be case somewhere down the line - same as Mourinho and LVG who both overstayed (not even going to include Moyes & Solskjaer who were just a massive waste of time all-round).
 
LoneStar said:
Selling/releasing Ronaldo, DDG and Maguire means we would need to sign a starting striker (likely 80M+), a starting goalkeeper (likely 50M+) and a third/fourth choice CB (likely 20-30M). Ideally we should be buying a RB as well, who is also likely to cost a good sum.

It's highly unlikely we'll be shelling out another 150M next summer though. Especially when we won't be getting any fee for Ronaldo or DDG.

Considering this, I'm afraid we might decide to extend De Gea's contract, which would be a huge mistake given we can't play out from the back. Let's hope we don't do it.
Click to expand...

Not all footballers have to cost ridiculous fees, we have just fallen foul of that because we panic and negotiate from a position of weakness. If we start to get clever, there are plenty of good players available for reasonable fees due to release clauses and/or players at or near the end of their contracts

Plus, Ronaldo is on £500K per week. Even if we pay his replacement £200K, that saves us £15.6m per annum and there must be money to be made from selling-on the likes of Maguire, AWB and DvdB.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
4. Not sure what you mean by this one. You have to have some semblance of depth and level of players that are okay with not playing often but stay at the club.
Click to expand...

It's one thing having a squad and competition for places, it's another having lads hanging around who literally make less than five starts a season.

I tried not to mention players specifically since I didn't want to get too 'micro' but I am thinking about the likes of Phil Jones and Axel Tuanzebe.
 
LoneStar said:
Selling/releasing Ronaldo, DDG and Maguire means we would need to sign a starting striker (likely 80M+), a starting goalkeeper (likely 50M+) and a third/fourth choice CB (likely 20-30M). Ideally we should be buying a RB as well, who is also likely to cost a good sum.

It's highly unlikely we'll be shelling out another 150M next summer though. Especially when we won't be getting any fee for Ronaldo or DDG.

Considering this, I'm afraid we might decide to extend De Gea's contract, which would be a huge mistake given we can't play out from the back. Let's hope we don't do it.
Click to expand...

Not every player has to cost 50m or 80m+. It's just a toss up then between paying big money to get the right player if available and picking up players that fit the team but aren't going to cost a pile of money. Big decisions have to be made around some of these players particularly DDG, Rashford, Martial, Shaw and Maguire players who cost big money and are paid very well, but just don't do enough on the pitch. If you look at how Arsenal have done this, Edu has pretty much cleared out all the underperforming high earners and brought in younger, hungrier and players who are just a better fit for the team. Utd need to take this approach.

Letting the ones go that are either not up scratch or don't fit the team or are just on too much money for too little return on the field - Ronaldo will probably be gone by the end of the season, then you have Jones, Axel, Williams, VDB, Martial, McT, Shaw, Maguire, DDG, Dalot, AWB, Lindelof and Fred - 14 players there and how many would really be missed? Realistically, given how much most of those guys actually appear, 6 signings could replace all of them.
 
Lentwood said:
It's one thing having a squad and competition for places, it's another having lads hanging around who literally make less than five starts a season.

I tried not to mention players specifically since I didn't want to get too 'micro' but I am thinking about the likes of Phil Jones and Axel Tuanzebe.
Click to expand...

Makes more sense. Yeah it's definitely a balancing act between having proper depth (and quality depth at that) that can get each player enough minutes, and having a very thin squad that can wreck your season with a few unlucky injuries.
 
Sell Ronaldo buy Toney.
sell martial and DVB and buy James maddison.
sell Fred buy neves.
Sell awb buy pavard.
Get goalkeeper Diogo costa to move forward with a modern keeper.

Suddenly you got a striker who’s scoring goals in PL. a quality number 10 to compete with Bruno. A better defensive midfielder to rotate with the others and a top notch right back.

All those players are gettable.
 
Lentwood said:
I have been very encouraged by what I have seen so far from ETH with respect the footballing-side. It's clear he is a demanding taskmaster but is able to drive players to give more without upsetting/alienating them. It's also clear that he is very strong tactically, is a good coach and has strong ideas about how he wants to play.

However...my concern is that whenever we have had positive starts under previous managers, there has been a collective 'relaxation' amongst the SMT and the players. Standards slip bit-by-bit, bad decisions are made and/or decisions are not made that should be made. Before we know it, we're back to the same lazy, lethargic performances and we end-up back to square one.

So, what big decisions do we think ETH and the SMT need to get right to turn this promising start into something bigger than that and create a side capable of challenging for major trophies?

For me, the key decisions which must be made are...

1) Ronaldo must leave at the earliest opportunity.

The club should no longer be seen as a retirement home for ageing CFs. We need young, hungry, talented footballers who are coachable. Not players at the end of their careers who demand huge wages and who can't or won't adapt. This should improve us on the pitch but it's also about setting the tone for the profile of player we have in our squad and whom we target in the transfer market.

2) DDG must not get a new contract.

This one makes me very, very nervous. I think it's clear that, whilst DDG was once one of the very best in the World, he's no longer a good goalkeeper, nor a good 'modern' goalkeeper. When we then factor in his insane salary, the fact he's been part of the furniture in a failing side for a decade (not his fault...but still) and also the fact he's unlikely to want to be a #2, then we have to let him leave on a free. If we get this decision wrong and give DDG a new contract then personally I think that's a huge blow to the idea that the club have learnt lessons from previous mistakes.

3) Maguire should be moved on and we should appoint a new club captain

I for one think Harry Maguire has been treated poorly by United fans at times and has been scapegoated. However, we're not here to have a debate about his footballing ability (or lack thereof in some people's opinion), instead, we need to consider the practicalities of having the club captain and an England regular sitting on the bench week-in, week out. Maguire has become synonymous with Solskjaer's tenure and ultimately, his failings. It's become a distraction and I feel it's now best for all parties just to move him on.

4) Get rid of the lads who don't play on a regular basis

Again, this thread is not about debating on-pitch issues and it's not about arguing about who is and who is not worth keeping. All I will say, and I think it's something that we can all agree with, is that if players are only playing a small handful of games each season, then whatever we might think about them/their ability, then it's pointless having them at the club. There's no benefit to anybody in having lads sitting about playing 5/6 games every season, it does nobody any good and can foster ill-feeling and disillusionment

So what are the other key decisions ETH and the management team MUST get right if we're to progress to the next level?
Click to expand...

I agree on every point. We must build a system. Not a short term patch tactics we’ve employed for years since SAF left.
 
Lentwood said:
I have been very encouraged by what I have seen so far from ETH with respect the footballing-side. It's clear he is a demanding taskmaster but is able to drive players to give more without upsetting/alienating them. It's also clear that he is very strong tactically, is a good coach and has strong ideas about how he wants to play.

However...my concern is that whenever we have had positive starts under previous managers, there has been a collective 'relaxation' amongst the SMT and the players. Standards slip bit-by-bit, bad decisions are made and/or decisions are not made that should be made. Before we know it, we're back to the same lazy, lethargic performances and we end-up back to square one.

So, what big decisions do we think ETH and the SMT need to get right to turn this promising start into something bigger than that and create a side capable of challenging for major trophies?

For me, the key decisions which must be made are...

1) Ronaldo must leave at the earliest opportunity.

The club should no longer be seen as a retirement home for ageing CFs. We need young, hungry, talented footballers who are coachable. Not players at the end of their careers who demand huge wages and who can't or won't adapt. This should improve us on the pitch but it's also about setting the tone for the profile of player we have in our squad and whom we target in the transfer market.

2) DDG must not get a new contract.

This one makes me very, very nervous. I think it's clear that, whilst DDG was once one of the very best in the World, he's no longer a good goalkeeper, nor a good 'modern' goalkeeper. When we then factor in his insane salary, the fact he's been part of the furniture in a failing side for a decade (not his fault...but still) and also the fact he's unlikely to want to be a #2, then we have to let him leave on a free. If we get this decision wrong and give DDG a new contract then personally I think that's a huge blow to the idea that the club have learnt lessons from previous mistakes.

3) Maguire should be moved on and we should appoint a new club captain

I for one think Harry Maguire has been treated poorly by United fans at times and has been scapegoated. However, we're not here to have a debate about his footballing ability (or lack thereof in some people's opinion), instead, we need to consider the practicalities of having the club captain and an England regular sitting on the bench week-in, week out. Maguire has become synonymous with Solskjaer's tenure and ultimately, his failings. It's become a distraction and I feel it's now best for all parties just to move him on.

4) Get rid of the lads who don't play on a regular basis

Again, this thread is not about debating on-pitch issues and it's not about arguing about who is and who is not worth keeping. All I will say, and I think it's something that we can all agree with, is that if players are only playing a small handful of games each season, then whatever we might think about them/their ability, then it's pointless having them at the club. There's no benefit to anybody in having lads sitting about playing 5/6 games every season, it does nobody any good and can foster ill-feeling and disillusionment

So what are the other key decisions ETH and the management team MUST get right if we're to progress to the next level?
Click to expand...
Some of this makes no sense. For example point 4 really is out of touch with modern day football and there are too many dynamics regarding player development, player form and injuries. Football today is a squad based game, moreso there is now 5 subs in most competitions if not all? (not sure on FA Cup or League Cup)

Getting rid of DDG, just my personal opinion but is one of the smaller problems we have in the squad. Yes we can point to him not being the player he once was etc but goalies seem to mature later in their career, so who is to say he cannot adopt his game in the same way Edwin Van Der Sar did? Again looking at player progression, is it not better to wait for a few years with DDG and let somebody like Kovar come through?
 
r3idy said:
Some of this makes no sense. For example point 4 really is out of touch with modern day football and there are too many dynamics regarding player development, player form and injuries. Football today is a squad based game, moreso there is now 5 subs in most competitions if not all? (not sure on FA Cup or League Cup)

Getting rid of DDG, just my personal opinion but is one of the smaller problems we have in the squad. Yes we can point to him not being the player he once was etc but goalies seem to mature later in their career, so who is to say he cannot adopt his game in the same way Edwin Van Der Sar did? Again looking at player progression, is it not better to wait for a few years with DDG and let somebody like Kovar come through?
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The question is how much is the cost of extension? Does he justify £18 million a year?

I would gamble on a £18 million young prodigy as a #2 for Henderson. I will take a potential damage in quality just to end this malicious practice. We should operate with a longer term view, not a one window mentality
 
ForeverRed1 said:
Sell Ronaldo buy Toney.
sell martial and DVB and buy James maddison.
sell Fred buy neves.
Sell awb buy pavard.
Get goalkeeper Diogo costa to move forward with a modern keeper.

Suddenly you got a striker who’s scoring goals in PL. a quality number 10 to compete with Bruno. A better defensive midfielder to rotate with the others and a top notch right back.

All those players are gettable.
Click to expand...
I agree all those players are gettable and would improve the team.

Just not so sure all the others players are sellable.
 
r3idy said:
Some of this makes no sense. For example point 4 really is out of touch with modern day football and there are too many dynamics regarding player development, player form and injuries. Football today is a squad based game, moreso there is now 5 subs in most competitions if not all? (not sure on FA Cup or League Cup)
Click to expand...

As I said to another poster, it's one thing having a deep squad and competition for places and another thing altogether having players hanging around who have no hope of playing a reasonable number of games - or even making the bench.

I didnt want to name players because it turns the thread into a "who should leave" debate, and there are plenty of those...but I think as a rule of thumb, if you're 23+ and dont start 5 or more PL games...who benefits from that?
 
r3idy said:
Some of this makes no sense. For example point 4 really is out of touch with modern day football and there are too many dynamics regarding player development, player form and injuries. Football today is a squad based game, moreso there is now 5 subs in most competitions if not all? (not sure on FA Cup or League Cup)

Getting rid of DDG, just my personal opinion but is one of the smaller problems we have in the squad. Yes we can point to him not being the player he once was etc but goalies seem to mature later in their career, so who is to say he cannot adopt his game in the same way Edwin Van Der Sar did? Again looking at player progression, is it not better to wait for a few years with DDG and let somebody like Kovar come through?
Click to expand...

It's not "adopting" his game though at this point, he'd have to literally go from a keeper hesitant to ever come off his line or distribute calmly from the back under pressure, to one that does both at a high level. That' not really possible at this point in his career, it would be an unprecedented transformation.
 
Just being consistent with the good decisions. Sounds simple but that's what it's about. We've had spells from LvG, Mourinho and Ole where they've made a few good decisions and things are looking up.

But then all three of them followed it up with some truly terrible decision making and its set us back so badly.

Doesn't matter how good the manager is, if he/the club make mistakes with the ins and outs it'll show on the pitch.

I'm not sure about individual aspects making a huge difference but if ETH can get it right 70% of the time, with the wealth of the club combined with his own coaching ability, we're on to a winner.
 
jem said:
Are you suggesting that ETH should be sacked and/or that he is a no-hoper?
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He's been grinding that axe since before ETH even showed up in Manchester, because he wanted Pochettino instead.
 
United need to sort what happens behind close doors. We struggle to sell, we overpay, we are shit in discovering new talent and when we achieve that they tend to prefer to sign elsewhere. Once that is sorted then things will fall in place. It really doesn't take a genius to understand that Ronaldo is finished, that we need a DLP, that Maguire is unsuited for our game and that Martial is unreliable
 
Good points.
I agree Ronaldo should be moved on either in Jan if we can bring in a CF, or more likely in the summer.
De Gea must be moved on as well, even if he improves his movement and distribution, unless he agrees a big paycut, as you can't be going higher with his salary. Ideally we can get a modern keeper in.
Maguire might be tougher to shift. I think the board will want 40/50 mill back to sell, which no one will bite at and may insist TH sticks with him. This already happened with Bissaka this season.
Ideally we move another load on, Jones, Tuanzebe, Bailley and others loaned out, but I think the board will probably only let TH bring in 3 players this summer. That then means TH would either end up keeping players for the sake of it, or promoting a lot of kids that might be too early for some.
For me the board must look for gradual improvement and forget that Utd are 'the biggest club...'. We cant compete with City or Chelsea finance wise, so look to another fallen giant, Arsenal. Given time Arteta has gradually changed them to become the team they are today. Do they have a load of big money signings and/or sky high earners?
Imo the board should give TH at least 2 seasons to see if he can turn the ship around, before assessing him. If Arteta can do it, then there is hope.
 
wolvored said:
Good points.
I agree Ronaldo should be moved on either in Jan if we can bring in a CF, or more likely in the summer.
De Gea must be moved on as well, even if he improves his movement and distribution, unless he agrees a big paycut, as you can't be going higher with his salary. Ideally we can get a modern keeper in.
Maguire might be tougher to shift. I think the board will want 40/50 mill back to sell, which no one will bite at and may insist TH sticks with him. This already happened with Bissaka this season.
Ideally we move another load on, Jones, Tuanzebe, Bailley and others loaned out, but I think the board will probably only let TH bring in 3 players this summer. That then means TH would either end up keeping players for the sake of it, or promoting a lot of kids that might be too early for some.
me the board must look for gradual improvement and forget that Utd are 'the biggest club...'. We cant compete with City or Chelsea finance wise, so look to another fallen giant, Arsenal. Given time Arteta has gradually changed them to become the team they are today. Do they have a load of big money signings and/or sky high earners?
Imo the board should give TH at least 2 seasons to see if he can turn the ship around, before assessing him. If Arteta can do it, then there is hope.
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I agree that we should be following how arsenal build but our fans don’t have patience . Hell some of them are expecting to win the league this year!
 
golden_blunder said:
I agree that we should be following how arsenal build but our fans don’t have patience . Hell some of them are expecting to win the league this year!
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True. We win 4 games in a row we are going to win the league, we lose heavily to City, sack TH!
 
I don't think Ronaldo, DDG or Maguire suit ETH's style and he'll phase them out as soon as he can
 
I'm very against renewing DDGs contract on current salary, however if he is happy to accept what the average of the other top sides in the PL pay their goal keepers then it would be more palatable to keep him. Overerall however would prefer to sign new keeper who can command his area and distribute effectively.
 
These are the low-hanging fruit. I'd question the choice to spend 1 million p.w on four players, who either are on long-term contracts or are about to get new ones, when we still struggle to create good chances and transition smoothly to a possession-based side. Or we can bury our heads in the sand and pretend that it's the manager's job to fix all that with a magic wand. The people who run the club probably do. I'm also fully behind ETH, but i have a nagging feeling that 100 million for Antony is a lot of money. Like... really a lot. Especially since i believe that we need to allocate our resources carefully and purposefully because the damage done by the previous two regimes (not Ralf) put us, in hindsight, miles behind our main competition.
 
Look at our GD for last season and now and it tells you that we need a proper CF who will get us 25/30 goals a season.
If we don't get someone in January then don't expect a top 4 finish or winning any trophy.
 
Lentwood said:
That would be nice...any idea who that is?
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from the bits I’ve seen albeit minimal that Kvatcshelia or however you spell it at Napoli is been called the Georgian Messi by Napoli fans.


That’s close Enough for me.
 
Elcabron said:
I'm very against renewing DDGs contract on current salary, however if he is happy to accept what the average of the other top sides in the PL pay their goal keepers then it would be more palatable to keep him. Overerall however would prefer to sign new keeper who can command his area and distribute effectively.
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I doubt the plan is to renew DDG for multiple seasons on his current salary. If that's something actually being discussed among the top decision makers at the club then it doesn't matter who the manager is, nobody will ever overcome the stupidity of the club executives.

The real question is whether we should release DDG in the summer and buy a new keeper, or exercise the club option to extend the contract by 1 year and defer that particular purchase until 2024. De Gea is now distributing the ball somewhat competently and looks to be sweeping a bit more (we'll have a better indication of how much better he is at these things as the sample size increases). I certainly think we need a keeper who can sweep, claim crosses and distribute better but we also need a starting central midfielder, starting centre forward and at least a backup/rotation option at right back. If DDG is doing a passable job at GK by the end of this season, that makes those other positions more important than replacing the keeper IMO, especially if it's an either-or decision.
 
RedOrange said:
I doubt the plan is to renew DDG for multiple seasons on his current salary. If that's something actually being discussed among the top decision makers at the club then it doesn't matter who the manager is, nobody will ever overcome the stupidity of the club executives.

The real question is whether we should release DDG in the summer and buy a new keeper, or exercise the club option to extend the contract by 1 year and defer that particular purchase until 2024. De Gea is now distributing the ball somewhat competently and looks to be sweeping a bit more (we'll have a better indication of how much better he is at these things as the sample size increases). I certainly think we need a keeper who can sweep, claim crosses and distribute better but we also need a starting central midfielder, starting centre forward and at least a backup/rotation option at right back. If DDG is doing a passable job at GK by the end of this season, that makes those other positions more important than replacing the keeper IMO, especially if it's an either-or decision.
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Fair points. Didn't realise there was option for further year. If triggered and we qualify for CL then he will be back on 350k for the following 12 months which is a lot of money over and above going rate.

Agree though it will likely be an either or choice. Our financial position will only deteriorate given global slow down, our debt servicing costs are very quickly escalating due to rising rates and there is also a stadium that needs investment. We are going to need to make some shrewd purchases going forward.
 
Skills said:
Most important one:

The decision of when to sack the current manager, and bring in a new one. A decision we've fecked up repeatedly for the last 10 years by letting no hopers overstay
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This is a so strange take on things. So so strange.
 
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