ODI Cricket Draft: KM vs PaulScholes

[Varun]

But we have to right? I mean I can't bring myself to vote for a chucker. It's why I didn't pick him.. I may be being harsh, but its part of what pushed me towards voting for the other team

I agree with that. Someone found guilty of chucking is tough to take as a bowler here. I said the same to EAP when he was fishing for reactions to see if he could take hafeez.

 

[Varun]

Mendis being the definition of shit once his initial mystery passed over balances this up though

 

[Norris]

Wait, so will match fixers get this same treatment ?

 

[KM]

Wait, so will match fixers get this same treatment ?

Warne was a druggie too.

This is absolute nonsense, akin to not rating Maradona in a Football draft cos he was banned for drugs.

 

[LeChuck]

Warne was a druggie too.

This is absolute nonsense, akin to not rating Maradona in a Football draft cos he was banned for drugs.

Agree with this.

 

[prath92]

I guess the thought process is more that if the player doesn't perform well without the drug/chuck and all, then he isn't the same.

Warne without the drugs was just as effective (to be fair he was banned when he failed the test anyway). Ajmal on the other hand wasn't effective after his action change, at least not to the same extent.

 

[Akshay]

Wait, so will match fixers get this same treatment ?

I don't really care about match-fixing tbh, since it has no relevance to the fixer's playing ability. If anything, match-fixers are underrated because their record would be better if they hadn't set out to deliberately lose.

 

[Norris]

I don't really care about match-fixing tbh, since it has no relevance to the fixer's playing ability. If anything, match-fixers are underrated because their record would be better if they hadn't set out to deliberately lose.

Do keep that in mind when you vote in Mani's match please.

 

[Varun]

The problem is the bowler's dependence on an illegal action. One has to judge him based on his performances with a legal action.

 

[Norris]

In the previous two games, the team chasing the match has won it. Will that trend continue?

 

[Donaldo]

The problem is the bowler's dependence on an illegal action. One has to judge him based on his performances with a legal action.

Yep.

 

[Norris]

Genuinely tough to call. Both sets of openers are similar in their approach to the game, but I'd rate watson a little higher than Dhawan, Sharma.
Batting first, KM is likely to do well. I don't think any of PS's bowlers will genuinely trouble him.

I rate Donald very highly, and I think he could probably dismiss Sharma and maybe even Sehwag very early on. The likes of Sanga, Morgan and faulkner will get them close, but it's the Donald factor I am swayed by.
Any idea on how Donald did in these conditions ?

Also not sure how to judge the spinners here. Ajmal has a terrific record, but once he changed his action, he has genuinely struggled. In other words, the 'Illegal' thing he did contributed largely to his success as a bowler.
Mendis started his career brilliantly, and I am not sure what happened after that.

Right now swaying towards KM coz of the Donald factor. Will wait for more inputs.

 

[KM]

The problem is the bowler's dependence on an illegal action. One has to judge him based on his performances with a legal action.

Its not written in the rules actually.

I repeat this is actually ridiculous.

 

[KM]

This should've been mentioned when I picked the players. It is a tad unfair to change the rules after the picks have been made.

 

[Nighteyes]

Saeed Ajmal is one of the worst chuckers ever. How anyone can take him seriously when he's been cheating for the majority of his career is baffling. Any commentator who brought it up was ridiculed. Really pissed me off.

Anyone with the likes of Ajmal, Akhtar, Harbhajan, Narine etc.....thr fact that these bowlers are chuckers should be taken into account.

 

[MJJ]

Saeed Ajmal is one of the worst chuckers ever. How anyone can take him seriously when he's been cheating for the majority of his career is baffling. Any commentator who brought it up was ridiculed. Really pissed me off.

Anyone with the likes of Ajmal, Akhtar, Harbhajan, Narine etc.....thr fact that these bowlers are chuckers should be taken into account.

Akhtar wasnt?

 

[crappycraperson]

Akhtar was as much a chucker as Lee was.

 

[KM]

Saeed Ajmal is one of the worst chuckers ever. How anyone can take him seriously when he's been cheating for the majority of his career is baffling. Any commentator who brought it up was ridiculed. Really pissed me off.

Anyone with the likes of Ajmal, Akhtar, Harbhajan, Narine etc.....thr fact that these bowlers are chuckers should be taken into account.

So should Muralitharan and Saqlain. Both of them bowled in an era when the rules were lax.

Anyone if that's the case going forward then I might as well throw this game.

 

[Nighteyes]

Akhtar wasnt?

Not consistently but he did throw an awful lot of times.

 

[Nighteyes]

So should Muralitharan and Saqlain. Both of them bowled in an era when the rules were lax.

Saqlain's action was perfectly fine, even the doosra, by any ruling standard.

Murali is an exception for obvious reasons.

 

[KM]

Saqlain's action was perfectly fine, even the doosra, by any ruling standard.

Murali is an exception for obvious reasons.

How do you know? He retired long before the new rules.

 

[Varun]

Saeed Ajmal is one of the worst chuckers ever. How anyone can take him seriously when he's been cheating for the majority of his career is baffling. Any commentator who brought it up was ridiculed. Really pissed me off.

Anyone with the likes of Ajmal, Akhtar, Harbhajan, Narine etc.....thr fact that these bowlers are chuckers should be taken into account.

Harbhajan and Akhtar don't belong in that list.

Its not written in the rules actually.

I repeat this is actually ridiculous.

This should've been mentioned when I picked the players. It is a tad unfair to change the rules after the picks have been made.

I didn't think anyone would touch the likes of Ajmal, Narine and have experience tbh. EAP hinted at wanting hafeez and asked for opinions so I told him I wouldn't consider his bowling with an illegal action.

So should Muralitharan and Saqlain. Both of them bowled in an era when the rules were lax.

Anyone if that's the case going forward then I might as well throw this game.

The other side had mendis as their spinner, he's shit too so I don't see you being hit that hard. If you win though, you should reace Ajmal.

 

[Nighteyes]

How do you know? He retired long before the new rules.

What new rules? As far as I know there have been no new rules. The only difference is ICC have now encouraged umpires and officials to be more open when it comes to reporting actions after a period of very few actions being reported despite an abundance of chuckers running around.

In fact Saqlain bowled in an era when bowlers were often reported and the restrictions were a lot tighter. His action looks visibly fine. A small kink in the elbow but no actual straightening of the arm at any point as far as I can remember. Couldn't find a side on view though so I might be remembering wrong.

Seems I might have been harsh on Shoaib though. Sounds like he should go down in the Murali category.

 

[Varun]

I've gone for KM finally. PSs bowling is far too weak and totally negates the advantage he has in batting in the top order. Even with the avg Ajmal, KM has lots of option to go with Gillespie and an absolute class bowler in Donald to lead them.

 

[MJJ]

Not consistently but he did throw an awful lot of times.

That was probably due to his body, he could stretch his arm back further than most people ,past the joint. Remember watching an interview of his where he was showing it.

 

[Nighteyes]

That was probably due to his body, he could stretch his arm back further than most people ,past the joint. Remember watching an interview of his where he was showing it.

Yeah, just read up on it. Looks quite terrible mind when you see it side on

 

[KM]

What new rules? As far as I know there have been no new rules. The only difference is ICC have now encouraged umpires and officials to be more open when it comes to reporting actions after a period of very few actions being reported despite an abundance of chuckers running around.

In fact Saqlain bowled in an era when bowlers were often reported and the restrictions were a lot tighter. His action looks visibly fine. A small kink in the elbow but no actual straightening of the arm at any point as far as I can remember. Couldn't find a side on view though so I might be remembering wrong.

Seems I might have been harsh on Shoaib though. Sounds like he should go down in the Murali category.

You're talking absolute nonsense. Rules have been made strict right now. There was no regulations before them. There's a reason why so many bowlers were banned at all.

 

[MJJ]

What new rules? As far as I know there have been no new rules. The only difference is ICC have now encouraged umpires and officials to be more open when it comes to reporting actions after a period of very few actions being reported despite an abundance of chuckers running around.

In fact Saqlain bowled in an era when bowlers were often reported and the restrictions were a lot tighter. His action looks visibly fine. A small kink in the elbow but no actual straightening of the arm at any point as far as I can remember. Couldn't find a side on view though so I might be remembering wrong.

Seems I might have been harsh on Shoaib though. Sounds like he should go down in the Murali category.

You're talking absolute nonsense. Rules have been made strict right now. There was no regulations before them. There's a reason why so many bowlers were banned at all.

From what I understand, its not that the rules have changed but the testing has improved. The old center at MCC, I think, passed ajmal a couple of times.

 

[KM]

From what I understand, its not that the rules have changed but the testing has improved. The old center at MCC, I think, passed ajmal a couple of times.

So is it not possible that Saqlain also passed at that old center?

 

[Skills]

From what I understand, its not that the rules have changed but the testing has improved. The old center at MCC, I think, passed ajmal a couple of times.

Yup.

 

[MJJ]

So is it not possible that Saqlain also passed at that old center?

Most definitely yes, wont know how he would fare under the new testing standards but you have to judge players by the time they plaed i. His action wasnt deemed illegal, so to me he isnt a chucker.

 

[Samid]

The only thing the rules say are: "* In this competition, players are considered at the level when they were in their prime."

There are no rules on chuckers. The only thing that should be considered is that Ajmal was a top bowler in his prime.

 

[Norris]

The only thing the rules say are: "* In this competition, players are considered at the level when they were in their prime."

There are no rules on chuckers. The only thing that should be considered is that Ajmal was a top bowler in his prime.

I think the argument is that his prime saw him do something illegal which gave him that success. Like how Armstrong won all those Toure De France's on supplements. He too was in his prime, but no way to know just how good he was without those illegalities. But the thing with Ajmal is that when he returned to the fold, he wasn't as successful. So maybe that can be argued as being his true "prime".

I am not comparing the two here. Lots of obvious differences. But I can understand why NM and Varun are against the idea of Ajmal. But then again, there is Mendis on the other side, so really doesn't matter.

 

[KM]

The only thing the rules say are: "* In this competition, players are considered at the level when they were in their prime."

There are no rules on chuckers. The only thing that should be considered is that Ajmal was a top bowler in his prime.

Yup.

 

[Norris]

Going to go with KM for this. I fancy Donald against PS18's opening batsmen. I checked both Donalds and Holding's records and Donald has the same no of 4 wicket hauls as Holding in half the games (In Aussie). That makes me think he will have a good game here too. I wish @paulscholes18 did discuss a bit more though. Would love to know his game plan is.

 

[Nighteyes]

You're talking absolute nonsense. Rules have been made strict right now. There was no regulations before them. There's a reason why so many bowlers were banned at all.

Not true at all. The regulations were actually far stricter when Saqlain was playing international cricket and umpires had no problem in calling bowlers out for chucking in those times.

Rules were made more lenient some time around 2003 when they increased the limit to 15 degrees or something.

 

[Samid]

I think the argument is that his prime saw him do something illegal which gave him that success. Like how Armstrong won all those Toure De France's on drugs. He too was in his prime, but no way to know just how good he was without those illegalities. But the thing with Ajmal is that when he returned to the fold, he wasn't as successful. So maybe that can be argued as being his true "prime".

Armstrong is a grade A cnut who deceived the whole world and threatened anyone that wanted to expose him but winning 7 successive TDFs on drugs is still an achievement considering most of his rivals also were on drugs. Armstrong would still be a first round pick in a cycling draft.

 

[KM]

Seems like I'm facing against @Akash and @MJJ rather than PS18. Such a shame that there has been no discussion amongst the two teams.

 

[Norris]

Armstrong is a grade A cnut who deceived the whole world and threatened anyone that wanted to expose him but winning 7 successive TDFs on drugs is still an achievement considering most of his rivals also were on drugs. Armstrong would still be a first round pick in a cycling draft.

That's not the case here is it ? Ajmal's peers weren't exactly doing the same thing (Not everyone atleast).

 

[LeChuck]

I don't think KM's top 3 match up to ps18's top 3. Sehwag and Sangakarra especially are a fair bit ahead in my estimation when compared to Root and Watson (though I do think Root will go on and become excellent in his own right).

But Holding aside, ps18's bowling attack isn't too great...(even though Holding is the best bowler for both sides). It's how much damage can Holding do in his 10 overs.