ODI Cricket Draft: Boycott vs Samid @ Capetown

Who will win the ODI?

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
Why I will win:
  • Martin Crowe vs Ross Taylor. Is this even a debate? Crowe is arguably the greatest New Zealand batsman. The only one who can match Crowe is Williamson. Taylor is comfortably from a tier below.
  • Taylor's shocking record in South Africa. He failed against bowlers like Nel and Albie Morkel, what chance does he have against bowlers ten times better?
  • Zaheer's impressive record in SA, 40 wickets in 22 games. Zaheer was a different beast in SA. This is comfortably his most favoured country. His average falls from 29 to 21. Economy falls from 4.9 to 4.5 and SR falls from 35 to 28.
  • I'm not convinced by de Kock. 7 of his 10 centuries came against England and India, two average bowling units. The seamers he was playing in these games: Mohit, B Kumar, Yadav, Shami, Willey, Topley, Jordan. From these Shami is the only decent bowler that I rate. None of them are in their prime. Hardly anyone of them has a nailed on position in their teams. If he was smashing world class bowlers around the park regularly then sure, massive credit to the guy. But he is smashing inexperienced bowlers that are trying to cement their places in the team. Add to that rapid outfields and 65m boundaries.
  • Salim Malik also has a shocking SA record.
  • Gibbs' batting at 3 has an average below 30. I can totally see why. Opening the batting and walking in at 3 requires two completely different mindsets. As an opener you can take your time to get settled and don't worry about the scoring rate in the opening overs. You know that it's all in your hands, you can play 50 overs if you want to. Coming in at 3 however you don't know what match situation you will be walking in to. It could be 0/1 in the first over of the match. Or it could be 70/1 after 12 overs. It requires adaptability to different match situations and judging by Gibbs' record at 3 he didn't adapt very well. Personally I think that it's very weird having a guy that has opened for almost 200 games coming in at 3 in a draft.
  • I'm backing Joel Garner, the greatest ODI bowler, and Zaheer Khan who has an immense record in SA to get de Kock, Gibbs and Taylor early on. Ganguly and Martyn will offer some resistance but as soon as one of them falls we are down to Malik and the tail. Garner, Morkel and Qadir will have absolutely no problems dismantling 6-11.
  • The chase won't be a big problem. He has 3 good bowlers no doubt but they have flaws. Malinga is very leaky while Walsh has an incredibly poor strike rate.
  • Greenidge will keep one end safe. On the other side I've got Abbas who has the average and SR that any modern day batsman would be immensely proud of. Then Crowe and Collingwood who also could bat for a lengthy period. At 6 I have arguably the best finisher of all time. Bevan will secure victory.
  • If I still need a few runs then Perera at 7 has played some match winning innings. At 8 I have Qadir who was no mug with the bat either.
 
Right now leaning towards Samid but will wait to hear from Boycott before voting.
 
I think Samid bowling is better. Batting too imo. Not sure why a good no.3 in Ganguly is opening and a good opener in Gibbs playing 1 down.
 
People are underestimating the impact of Bevan. He would win you the game vs any attack in any conditions.

vs Windies: Ambrose, Walsh, Harper were bowling on a difficult pitch. Low scoring match. Bevan saw Australia home with a last ball 4. Scorecard.

vs New Zealand: Bond, Vettori, Harris, Astle. Came in at a stage where the required rate was 5.50. Saw his side home batting with the tail. Scorecard.

vs Pakistan: Akram, Younis, 2xMusthaq, Afridi. Unbeaten 79 in an incredibly low scoring match. Scorecard.

vs India: Srinath, Zaheer, Agarkar, Harbhajan. Came in with 200 required, went not out. Scorecard.

vs South Africa: Pollock, Donald, Cronje, Kallis. Came in at 80/3, chased down 287 with ease. Scorecard.

vs Sri Lanka. Top order for once have done their job! Still a run a ball cameo required from Bevan, no problem at all. Scorecard.

vs England: Caddick, Anderson, Flintoff. Top order crumbling again and once again batting with the tail? No problemo! Scorecard.

For Rest of World vs Asia XI: Akram, Vaas, Razzaq, Kumble and Murali in subcontinental conditions. Unbeaten 185 chasing a total of 320 and falling one run behind. Scorecard.


These are just some of the incredible chases he was involved in. It's not without reason he is averaging 50+ vs almost all major teams. He has torn apart every opponent bowler in this matchup except for Malinga who he never played against.
 
On Gibbs coming in at 3, since De Kock has only ever batted as an opener I rather keep him in his natural position. As I say, Ganguly and De Kock compliment each other well as both are attacking in different ways. Then with Gibbs, Taylor and Martyn you have clean strikers able to build on a good start and accelerate.

If we take a look at Brad Haddin - technical flaws include walking into shots and a struggle against swing. Opening the batting against my front line of Malinga and Waqar I think he will struggle as those two are killers. We won't be bowling short to allow him to get away. It will be a test of his technique. For that reason I expect an early wicket. Zaheer Abbas never played in SA but in similar conditions he did well in England but averaging 32 in Aus. I don't agree with the comment of FTB but nonetheless it's a small sample. His batting style is fluent but I will aim to target him with inswingers and have the best attack to do so. This will stifle his runs added with good fielding.

Martin Crowe averages 32 in SA, 33 in England and 34 in Australia. Taylor is 22, 52 and 36. Not great but one quality he has over is his ability to score 360. For me Garner is your only true great and as I said before the other pacers aren't anything my batsmen aren't anything my batsmen aren't used to. We could say Zaheer ~ Agarkar. Agarkar is my fourth seamer while Zaheer is likely your strike bowler after Garner. I like Morkel but his bowling style is back off a length and my batsmen can handle that. He can be wild too so I think you're relying on Garner to keep a nail on my innings.
 
And my attack is easily capable of sweeping Perera, Qadir,Zaheer, Morkel and Garner. None have the capability to hang around. Qadir can strike a clean ball but against my attack? Bevan would give the strike to the likes of McGrath to face early in overs. His average is helped by red ink. No doubt he won matches but can he do much with that long tail against my attack..
 
No way is Zaheer ~ Agarkar. Agarkar was shite outside the subcontinent. His records are poor in Eng, Aus and SA. Zaheer however was a beast in SA. Agarkar ~ Perera maybe.

Oh and yes, Haddin is shit. But he is my only weak link in what otherwise is a solid top 6.

Let's be honest, both tails would get cleaned up. It all comes down to your top 6 vs my top 6. I've got more variation in my bowling. Right hand, left hand, swing, medium pace, extreme pace/bounce. Not to mention a quality spinner which you don't have. Let's not forget how deadly Abdul Qadir was in England and Australia. Low average and economy rate in these conditions.
 
Hogg has a fine record too. With his variations and Walsh's miserly economy which drops to 2.49 in SA I can put the brakes on in the middle passage.
 
The more I think about this, the more I feel Greenidge and abbas are going to play a massive role in the game. Garner vs Ganguly and de kock is such a mismatch. Samid on the other hand has the batters that can deal with quality pace bowling.
 
The rest of his attack are a tier or two below Garner. Ganguly, Gibbs, Taylor, Martyn have done well against better quicks than Zaheer and Morkel. Perera is terrible away and is no more than medium pace and we can feast on him if he bowls his full quota which is another advantage I have. 4 quicks and spinner in Hogg.

Whereas with Waqar and Malinga and then miserly but quick Walsh I have more ability to get wickets. What better way to curtail runs by getting wickets...
 
Varun said:
The more I think about this, the more I feel Greenidge and abbas are going to play a massive role in the game. Garner vs Ganguly and de kock is such a mismatch. Samid on the other hand has the batters that can deal with quality pace bowling.
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Agree, was one of the factors that convinced me.
 
Real lack of late explosiveness in both teams coupled with miserly bowlers at the death. I think for that reason it'll be vital to keep a brisk pace throughout the innings. Greenidge might not be that good in that case.
 
Akshay said:
Real lack of late explosiveness in both teams coupled with miserly bowlers at the death. I think for that reason it'll be vital to keep a brisk pace throughout the innings. Greenidge might not be that good in that case.
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Yep. Agreed. The final death overs will be miserly. But the middle overs are crucial like you said. But that's where I think Abbas and Crowe might shine. If they have to face against the likes of Perrera (especially if he bowls the full 10), they could easily go at 4-5 an over without any pressure.

I also don't like Martyn at 5 tbh. I think he should come in earlier. He can build an innings much better than Gibbs and Taylor. I think Boycott got the batting line-up a little wrong.
 
Ijazz17 said:
Yep. Agreed. The final death overs will be miserly. But the middle overs are crucial like you said. But that's where I think Abbas and Crowe might shine. If they have to face against the likes of Perrera (especially if he bowls the full 10), they could easily go at 4-5 an over without any pressure.

I also don't like Martyn at 5 tbh. I think he should come in earlier. He can build an innings much better than Gibbs and Taylor. I think Boycott got the batting line-up a little wrong.
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I don't have Perera.

I also think people are putting Taylor down. Average of 43 with 15 centuries to his name. Often coming in early as NZ have struggled with the top order.

He's a clean hitter, wonderful balance and has shown he can compose innings.

As for Gibbs, what makes you think he can't build an innings?
 
Boycott said:
I don't have Perera.

I also think people are putting Taylor down. Average of 43 with 15 centuries to his name. Often coming in early as NZ have struggled with the top order.

He's a clean hitter, wonderful balance and has shown he can compose innings.

As for Gibbs, what makes you think he can't build an innings?
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Damn it. I am sorry. Second mistake in two drafts now. Really struggling with the squads here.

I didn't say Gibbs can't build an innings. I am saying Martyn is much much better at it. Had you put him at 3 or 4, and had given the license to Ross Taylor to let loose for the final 10 overs, you would have been looking at a much bigger score. I would have quite liked to see a Gibbs-Martyn partnership. I think they would complement each other well.
 
Gibbs played this innings coming in at 3-1.



He can completely dismantle attacks
 
Ijazz17 said:
Damn it. I am sorry. Second mistake in two drafts now. Really struggling with the squads here.

I didn't say Gibbs can't build an innings. I am saying Martyn is much much better at it. Had you put him at 3 or 4, and had given the license to Ross Taylor to let loose for the final 10 overs, you would have been looking at a much bigger score. I would have quite liked to see a Gibbs-Martyn partnership. I think they would complement each other well.
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People are quick to jump at the numbers of each batting position. Prevents a bit of fluidity and thinking outside the box of what a players capabilities can do
 
Boycott said:
People are quick to jump at the numbers of each batting position. Prevents a bit of fluidity and thinking outside the box of what a players capabilities can do
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But I didn't bring up any numbers. After I told you I think Gibbs-Martyn-Taylor would be a better fit, I quickly checked Taylor's record at 5 and it's abysmal (Although just 9 Innings), but I still think he could be devastating coming in at that position after all the hardwork Martyn puts in.
 
Ijazz17 said:
But I didn't bring up any numbers. After I told you I think Gibbs-Martyn-Taylor would be a better fit, I quickly checked Taylor's record at 5 and it's abysmal (Although just 9 Innings), but I still think he could be devastating coming in at that position after all the hardwork Martyn puts in.
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I don't mean you. I mean if I put Taylor at 5 someone will bring up his record (small sample or not) to use against him.

Taylor at 4 averages 43. Ganguly averages 49 in SA. De Kock 43 in his natural position. Gibbs at 3 is on the low side but we are just glossing over his talent and overall record it seems...
 
Plus I'm still to know who the opening bowlers are, how the others will be utilised and then the qualities of his batsmen to face my attack other than "he's good against pace".

My batting plan as I mentioned in OP is to see us pass 300. However legendary Garner is and he is a great, he can't do it on his own.

What Zaheer are we seeing? The quick pacer who was a tad erratic (and who Ponting and Martyn played with ease in 03 final) or the wily bowler of his later years
 
Rough bowling plan:

Garner 1,3,5,7,9,41,43,45,47,49
Zaheer 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,37,39
Morkel 11,13,15,17,19,42,44,46,48,50
Qadir 22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40
Collingwood 18,20,33,35
Perera 21,23,25,27,29,31

There is no chance of anything close to 300. By the time my frontline seamers are done with their first spell the score will be 70/4 in 20 overs. From here the maximum score would be 200 but you will be heavily dependent on a big partnership or else the tail can crumble for 150.

You will be seeing peak Zaheer.

I had several videos of my batsmen but Skills cut them out from his post for some reason. My batsmen will respect the excellent deliveries but apart from that they will go like this:

 
Samid said:
Rough bowling plan:

Garner 1,3,5,7,9,41,43,45,47,49
Zaheer 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,37,39
Morkel 11,13,15,17,19,42,44,46,48,50
Qadir 22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40
Collingwood 18,20,33,35
Perera 21,23,25,27,29,31

There is no chance of anything close to 300. By the time my frontline seamers are done with their first spell the score will be 70/4 in 20 overs. From here the maximum score would be 200 but you will be heavily dependent on a big partnership or else the tail can crumble for 150.

You will be seeing peak Zaheer.

I had several videos of my batsmen but Skills cut them out from his post for some reason. My batsmen will respect the excellent deliveries but apart from that they will go like this:

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:lol:

I don't think the rest of your pace attack is anything special after Garner. We negotiate him, respect him and target the others who I've seen been dismantled. Waqar, Malinga, Walsh as a threesome have good balance. Speed is a constant but one is a swing and seam demon, one has the best yorker and hard to get away at peak and the other is aggressive and a workhorse.

I see no reason why I can't apply that same logic to your run chase. In fact Zaheer Abass has been tagged as someone who is fair-weather and if we're going by numbers Crowe is poor in SA. And Haddin is nowt to worry about.
 
It was an exaggeration. Nothing less than what you said in the OP. Capable of scoring 330+ while carefully negotiating Garner? So basically 300+ runs from 40 overs? Bowlers that have a career economy under 5 would suddenly be going for 7,5?
 
Samid said:
It was an exaggeration. Nothing less than what you said in the OP. Capable of scoring 330+ while carefully negotiating Garner? So basically 300+ runs from 40 overs? Bowlers that have a career economy under 5 would suddenly be going for 7,5?
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In the OP I stated my team have the qualities to reach a score of 330. That's the par score these days. That didn't necessarily mean we would get there but if we go for that as a plan which I stated if we fall short we'd still be competitive. Nothing was definitive.

We'd need at least two guys to score 100s. My batsmen who have all been involved in big innings.
They're not sloggers. They have high strike rates as a result of being able to pierce the gaps. Yet two who have excellent records have been IMO under-valued (De Kock and Taylor).

Anyway, good luck in the next round. It's been a good discussion :)
 
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