Northern Ireland Thread

This is nothing but a bunch of young lads being stirred up by a handful of people. The young uns have nothing better to do and some will use any excuse for a ruckus
 
golden_blunder said:
This is nothing but a bunch of young lads being stirred up by a handful of people. The young uns have nothing better to do and some will use any excuse for a ruckus
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Yep!

As i said before, those twats missed out on the Troubles so they think they're contributing to the past by wreckin the place now. I'd love the Cops to adapt a paramilitary style (different to the B-Specials ;))- a special unit like "Inglorious Basterds" & go around head-capping the ring-leaders of the riots, all dissident republicans & knee-cap the cnuts wreckin the place... they could make it pay-per-view aswell!
 
Red Hand Devil said:
Yep!

As i said before, those twats missed out on the Troubles so they think they're contributing to the past by wreckin the place now. I'd love the Cops to adapt a paramilitary style (different to the B-Specials ;))- a special unit like "Inglorious Basterds" & go around head-capping the ring-leaders of the riots, all dissident republicans & knee-cap the cnuts wreckin the place... they could make it pay-per-view aswell!
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I would pay for that!
 
BBC News - Colin Duffy not guilty of Massereene soldiers' killings
One of the men accused of murdering two soldiers at Massereene Barracks in Antrim has been found not guilty on all charges.

Colin Duffy, 44, from Lurgan was charged with the murders of Mark Quinsey, 23, and Patrick Azimkar, 21.

The soldiers were shot dead as they collected pizza in March 2009.

The judge has yet to deliver his verdict on Mr Duffy's co-accused, Brian Shivers, 46, from Magherafelt.

Judge Anthony Hart told Antrim Crown Court that he was satisfied that Mr Duffy's DNA was found on a latex glove tip inside the car and on a seat buckle but he said the prosecution had failed to link the defendant to the murder plot.

He said: "I consider that there is insufficient evidence to satisfy me beyond reasonable doubt that whatever Mr Duffy may have done when he wore the latex glove, or touched the seatbelt buckle, meant that he was preparing the car in some way for this murderous attack. And I therefore find him not guilty."

The soldiers were the first to be murdered in Northern Ireland since Lance Bombardier Stephen Restorick was killed by an IRA sniper in 1997.

Both men had been due to travel to Afghanistan hours after they were they were murdered.

The dissident republican group, the Real IRA, claimed responsibility for the attack, which left several others injured.

The Real IRA was born out of a split in the mainstream Provisional IRA in October 1997, when the IRA's so-called quartermaster-general resigned over Sinn Fein's direction in the peace process.

It carried out the worst single atrocity of over 30 years of violence in Northern Ireland when it bombed the County Tyrone town of Omagh, killing 29 people, in August 1998.
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Not exactly what people were expecting/hoping for.
 
hard to believe he got away with it when his DNA was found on not only the 'inside' of the glove, but also in the car. It seems pretty incredible TBH that this judgement was made. Maybe some more legally minded posters could enlighten me but surely that was pretty irrefutable and damning evidence that he was involved in the plot.
 
Thats 3 murders he's been charged for and got off with!

Something's not right

Not happy with this ruling, currently 20 PSNI Landrovers sitting outside Antrim Courthouse too
 
Irwinwastheking said:
What was the evidence against him that was more damning than the dna?
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This has been added to the bbc report:

In his judgement on Brian Shivers, Judge Anthony Hart drew attention to Shivers' role in attempting to dispose of the getaway car used in the murders.

He said there could be no doubt that the person who set fire to the Cavalier played an essential part in the murderous attack because by setting fire to the car they were trying to destroy it, and so destroy any evidence that might lead to the arrest of those involved.

He said that he was satisfied that Shivers' DNA was found on the two matches found on the back seat of the Cavalier, and that those matches were used to set fire to the car before all those present left the scene.

He also said that Shivers had lied about his whereabouts and actions on the night of the murders.

Judge Hart concluded: "I am satisfied that the prosecution has proved beyond reasonable doubt that Shivers set fire to the Cavalier at Ranaghan Road and I therefore find him guilty on each count on the indictment."
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PJ said:
The thing that's bugging me is, Shivers has/had a Protestant girlfriend for 6 years. In my experience, if someone's bitter enough to consider doing what he's been found guilty of, then they're not going to look twice at a woman from "the other side". And that must have made the IRA meetings before it a bit awkward...
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I've always had the impression, maybe wrongly, that the Catholics were mainly involved in a political struggle, and the Protestants in a religious one.
 
Livvie said:
I've always had the impression, maybe wrongly, that the Catholics were mainly involved in a political struggle, and the Protestants in a religious one.
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Don't agree at all. It's as much as both on either side. The Catholic side of the struggle (not all though, from personal experience) is political in that they want a United Ireland. Or government separate from the Union. The Protestant side of the struggle is that they don't want either, and want the Union to remain.
 
The Neviller said:
Don't agree at all. It's as much as both on either side. The Catholic side of the struggle (not all though, from personal experience) is political in that they want a United Ireland. Or government separate from the Union. The Protestant side of the struggle is that they don't want either, and want the Union to remain.
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Isn't one of the Protestants main reasons for wanting the Union to remain, the fact that they don't want to be 'ruled by Rome'.
 
Livvie said:
Isn't one of the Protestants main reasons for wanting the Union to remain, the fact that they don't want to be 'ruled by Rome'.
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I'm a Protestant, I want to remain part of the Union. I don't give a shite about what goes on in Rome. I'm a Unionist, but I'm not a religious bigot.
 
The way you put it simplifies it as the Catholic side of the "struggle" being a romantic one of politicism and freedom, with the Protestant side being pure religious bigotry and unacceptance. That's not the case at all.
 
The Neviller said:
I'm a Protestant, I want to remain part of the Union. I don't give a shite about what goes on in Rome. I'm a Unionist, but I'm not a religious bigot.
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There are plenty who were.
 
The Neviller said:
The way you put it simplifies it as the Catholic side of the "struggle" being a romantic one of politicism and freedom, with the Protestant side being pure religious bigotry and unacceptance. That's not the case at all.
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There was nothing romantic about anything that happened here. People suffered for decades and achieved very little, on any side.

Republicans were capable of being sectarian (Kingsmill for example) but religion was never the defining feature like it was for the armed loyalist groups. Gusty Spences motto for the UVF was; "If you can't get a gunman get a taig". If the provos went out and shot a british soldier the loyalists would respond by dragging a catholic civilian into a romper room and torturing him to death.

Religion was the motivating factor for loyalist groups, their actions show that.
 
An Irish Red said:
There was nothing romantic about anything that happened here. People suffered for decades and achieved very little, on any side.

Republicans were capable of being sectarian (Kingsmill for example) but religion was never the defining feature like it was for the armed loyalist groups. Gusty Spences motto for the UVF was; "If you can't get a gunman get a taig". If the provos went out and shot a british soldier the loyalists would respond by dragging a catholic civilian into a romper room and torturing him to death.

Religion was the motivating factor for loyalist groups, their actions show that.
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Did the provo's only kill armed forces then? No everyday, normal Protestant civilians were killed for simply being Protestant?
 
The way the statement I was responding to was put was that Catholics in Northern Ireland were politically motivated, Protestants were religiously motivated. The UVF, UDA, whichever terrorist group you want to name, do not represent me. I'm a Protestant and a Unionist, I am not a bigot. Nothing is religiously motivated for me. Sweeping statements like this are dangerous.
 
The Neviller said:
There are plenty on both sides who are. Doesn't mean everyone on both sides are.
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I never said they were.

Livvie said:
I've always had the impression, maybe wrongly, that the Catholics were mainly involved in a political struggle, and the Protestants in a religious one.
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Neither have I made sweeping generalisations. Just said what impression I've had.
 
The Neviller said:
Why single out one side to be religiously bigoted though, and another not?
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As explained above, I said it was the impression I'd always had, and I made a point of saying that it could have been the wrong one.

Probably had that impression because of the fact that for a long time, Catholics were treated as second class citizens in Northern Ireland.
 
The Neviller said:
The way the statement I was responding to was put was that Catholics in Northern Ireland were politically motivated, Protestants were religiously motivated. The UVF, UDA, whichever terrorist group you want to name, do not represent me. I'm a Protestant and a Unionist, I am not a bigot. Nothing is religiously motivated for me. Sweeping statements like this are dangerous.
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I'm pretty sure the statement was referring to the more militant sections of each community, not the average man on the ground.
 
An Irish Red said:
I'm pretty sure the statement was referring to the more militant sections of each community, not the average man on the ground.
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Absolutely.

I've no doubts at all that the majority of people in NI were - are - peace-loving, decent people.
 
Livvie said:
As explained above, I said it was the impression I'd always had, and I made a point of saying that it could have been the wrong one.
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Yeah, my mistake. I apologised previously. It was more your impression and then someone else stating it was correct that got me. We're not all the same, I have alot of very good friends who are Catholic/Nationalists, I don't hate them because of their religion. I disagree with their political beliefs, but their religion is never an issue for me, neither is mine for them.
 
An Irish Red said:
I'm pretty sure the statement was referring to the more militant sections of each community, not the average man on the ground.
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Aye fair enough. I don't get the point in the differentiation though, murder for political gain is no better than murder due to religious beliefs. Neither side were particularly discriminate as to who they killed.
 
The Neviller said:
No let's continue with sweeping generalisations and project them onto normal people who don't give a shit what religion anyone is.
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The bolded part wasn't a sweeping generalisation. It was a simple fact of how things were for a huge amount of people in NI.

Anyway, lets not try to turn this thread into a them vs us thread. I'm pretty sure no-one here is like that. We all hold our our beliefs dear, and heve to make an effort to respect each others rights and beliefs. Remember cacs on page one of this thread. We all came together in condemning this and I'm pretty sue we are all happy that this guy if guilty (I know nothing of the case hence the 'if') was convicted. Try to keep the debate about the past difference to another thread if possible. Maybe we should re-open the Carling nations cup thread.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
The bolded part wasn't a sweeping generalisation. It was a simple fact of how things were for a huge amount of people in NI.

Anyway, lets not try to turn this thread into a them vs us thread. I'm pretty sure no-one here is like that. We all hold our our beliefs dear, and heve to make an effort to respect each others rights and beliefs. Remember cacs on page one of this thread. We all came together in condemning this and I'm pretty sue we are all happy that this guy if guilty (I know nothing of the case hence the 'if') was convicted. Try to keep the debate about the past difference to another thread if possible. Maybe we should re-open the Carling nations cup thread.
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I get that people suffered prejudice, but everyone on all sides of our country suffered. I've no desire for any "them v us" feelings, but generalisations get made that paints sections of the community as being a particular way inclined, that just isn't always true. There are wrongs and wrong doers on both sides of the divide in this country, and we as everyday, law-abiding citizens have always been the ones caught in the middle.

I didnt notice cacs story before I posted here, heartbreaking for the fella and I sympathise with him for his loss. It's truly sad the hurt that has been caused to this country by evil men, irrespective of their agenda, intent on savagery.

One thing we need to always remember is that as much as there is bad on both sides, there are good on both sides too. We all have our lives to lead, and we'd all rather live it in peace. Let's not demonise people on what was classed once as "the opposite side of the divide" for acts carried out by people who do not represent their wishes.
 
The Neviller said:
I get that people suffered prejudice, but everyone on all sides of our country suffered. I've no desire for any "them v us" feelings, but generalisations get made that paints sections of the community as being a particular way inclined, that just isn't always true. There are wrongs and wrong doers on both sides of the divide in this country, and we as everyday, law-abiding citizens have always been the ones caught in the middle.

I didnt notice cacs story before I posted here, heartbreaking for the fella and I sympathise with him for his loss. It's truly sad the hurt that has been caused to this country by evil men, irrespective of their agenda, intent on savagery.

One thing we need to always remember is that as much as there is bad on both sides, there are good on both sides too. We all have our lives to lead, and we'd all rather live it in peace. Let's not demonise people on what was classed once as "the opposite side of the divide" for acts carried out by people who do not represent their wishes.
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Here here!

Possibly we could start an Irish history thread at some stage, and really debate the finer points of the history of or Island, but I fear that the thread would be ruined by wummers and too many of us are to quick to bite. I know that Livvie was not wumming there, but look how easy it is to wind someone up about this subject. Maybe this is something we should consign to history and keep this space for speaking about strictly current events.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
Here here!

Possibly we could start an Irish history thread at some stage, and really debate the finer points of the history of or Island, but I fear that the thread would be ruined by wummers and too many of us are to quick to bite. I know that Livvie was not wumming there, but look how easy it is to wind someone up about this subject. Maybe this is something we should consign to history and keep this space for speaking about strictly current events.
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Good idea but I fear an Irish history thread would be just the same as this one. It's obviously too raw to be discussed without upsetting someone. I'm sorry if I did that. It wasn't my intention.
 
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