Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City

NewUser777 said:
There are some real beauts in here.. He has scored more goals than Chelsea, and has three goals less than us. Somehow he makes City worse, and is responsible for them concede more goals.. 13 more goals, and he is the all time premiership goal scorer.
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I don't see that there's a straightforward argument that he's "responsible for them concede more goals"? Why would he be the one responsible for that, particularly?

It's true however that for most metrics (except goals scored), they're a little bit behind last year (understat):

Category................21/22...........22/23
Goals pg................2.61...............2.87
Goals ag pg...........0.68...............1.00
xG..........................2.46................2.33
xGA.......................0.66................0.92
Points pg..............2.45................2.33

They've changed their game quite a bit: More emphasis on exploiting breaks, more direct attacks, and as a consequence also less possession, less control and more defensive risk. Maybe that will bring better results over the course of a whole season and maybe it won't, but it's not surprising that it brings some adjustment challenges that takes time to learn how to deal with as a team. And the advantage is it makes them much less predictable, and hence harder to deal with. My guess is it will push their top level higher, in the long run.
 
justsomebloke said:
I don't see that there's a straightforward argument that he's "responsible for them concede more goals"? Why would he be the one responsible for that, particularly?

It's true however that for most metrics (except goals scored), they're a little bit behind last year (understat):

Category................21/22...........22/23
Goals pg................2.61...............2.87
Goals ag pg...........0.68...............1.00
xG..........................2.46................2.33
xGA.......................0.66................0.92
Points pg..............2.45................2.33

They've changed their game quite a bit: More emphasis on exploiting breaks, more direct attacks, and as a consequence also less possession, less control and more defensive risk. Maybe that will bring better results over the course of a whole season and maybe it won't, but it's not surprising that it brings some adjustment challenges that takes time to learn how to deal with as a team. And the advantage is it makes them much less predictable, and hence harder to deal with. My guess is it will push their top level higher, in the long run.
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It doesn't help that they've been missing defenders quite consistently. Walker and Laporte for a while. Dias currently.
 
DWelbz19 said:
He’s 6ft4 and has the acceleration of a tricky winger. That’s pretty unbelievable. Can’t think of a striker of his stature with the same pace over the first 5-10 yards
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Yeah like he is unbelievable it's just he makes it look so simple is what I meant. To think Sergio Aguero who was immense himself was replaced so easily is remarkable in itself.
 
justsomebloke said:
I don't see that there's a straightforward argument that he's "responsible for them concede more goals"? Why would he be the one responsible for that, particularly?

It's true however that for most metrics (except goals scored), they're a little bit behind last year (understat):

Category................21/22...........22/23
Goals pg................2.61...............2.87
Goals ag pg...........0.68...............1.00
xG..........................2.46................2.33
xGA.......................0.66................0.92
Points pg..............2.45................2.33

They've changed their game quite a bit: More emphasis on exploiting breaks, more direct attacks, and as a consequence also less possession, less control and more defensive risk. Maybe that will bring better results over the course of a whole season and maybe it won't, but it's not surprising that it brings some adjustment challenges that takes time to learn how to deal with as a team. And the advantage is it makes them much less predictable, and hence harder to deal with. My guess is it will push their top level higher, in the long run.
Click to expand...

Haven't seen enough of City to judge but if they find it harder to control games with Haaland on the pitch - which seems reasonable since he isn't involved as much - it means they don't defend through possession as much. The opponent can't score when you have the ball. And being less secure in possession can also mean more dangerous turnovers and thus more chances on the counter for the opponent.
 
We've been playing centre backs at right back for most of the season which hasn't helped. We really haven't done any worse points wise at this stage than other seasons though.
 
Arsenal being on pace for 101 points is distorting people's view of City
 
cyberman said:
He is a fantastic player but three comes a limit when you’re scoring an obscene amount of goals that you’re cannibalising your teams output. Arsenal have only scored 7 goals less than City and are 5 points ahead. Jesus gets injured and they work around it, Haaland gets injured and City are in real trouble.
Haaland may always score but City as a team always scored as well so is it that much of an advantage when the number is so ridiculous? Arsenal have scored in every game this season while City have failed to score in 3. City need another goalscorer to stake their claim and take advantage of Haaland imo
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Much as I’d love You to be right about City being in trouble if Haaland got injured I just can’t see it. Winning the league without a recognised striker last year proves they could do the same again for me. Granted the gunners look like they can give them a run but City go into another level second half of the season.

Sadly the noisy neighbours are on the way for another premier league title.
 
giorno said:
Arsenal being on pace for 101 points is distorting people's view of City
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Not really. They've had a very favorable list of fixtures so far (haven't even played Arsenal, Chelsea or Spurs yet), and they haven't been particularly impressive, drawing against Newcastle and Aston Villa, and losing to Liverpool and Brentford.

I've seen far more dominant City sides than this in recent years. But perhaps they'll turn it on in the second half of the season.
 
justsomebloke said:
I don't see that there's a straightforward argument that he's "responsible for them concede more goals"? Why would he be the one responsible for that, particularly?

It's true however that for most metrics (except goals scored), they're a little bit behind last year (understat):

Category................21/22...........22/23
Goals pg................2.61...............2.87
Goals ag pg...........0.68...............1.00
xG..........................2.46................2.33
xGA.......................0.66................0.92
Points pg..............2.45................2.33

They've changed their game quite a bit: More emphasis on exploiting breaks, more direct attacks, and as a consequence also less possession, less control and more defensive risk. Maybe that will bring better results over the course of a whole season and maybe it won't, but it's not surprising that it brings some adjustment challenges that takes time to learn how to deal with as a team. And the advantage is it makes them much less predictable, and hence harder to deal with. My guess is it will push their top level higher, in the long run.
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You use full season stats from 21/22. If you look at it after 15 rounds, it looks a bit different. Statline 11-2-2 is identical, and pg 2.33 for both seasons.

After that it goes:
Goals pg................2.13 ..............2.87
Goals ag pg...........0.66...............1.00

Goal differential is +28 this season and +23 last. Posession numbers is 67 this season, 68 last (full season), and 64 in 20/21.
 
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Best player in the league for sure. His xg in the 6 yard box must be 1 or close to it for every shot he attempts in it.

Will be interesting to see if he can crack the 1000 goal barrier in his career.
 
Zehner said:
Haven't seen enough of City to judge but if they find it harder to control games with Haaland on the pitch - which seems reasonable since he isn't involved as much - it means they don't defend through possession as much. The opponent can't score when you have the ball. And being less secure in possession can also mean more dangerous turnovers and thus more chances on the counter for the opponent.
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Yes, of course. But it's not self-evidently the case that a maximum emphasis on control is the optimal way to play - there are pros and cons. Also, you can't completely conflate "Haaland" and City's adjustment in style. He may be a big reason why they have changed their approach a bit, but it's still on the team as a whole to make whatever style they choose to play succeed. I really don't think the effects are much about how involved Haaland is - rather it is about an increased willingness to play on the break and seek deep breakthrough passes, a more direct approach to the attack - which means you lose the ball more often, necessarily. But it's just a difference in degree, I don't think their style is radically different from before.
 
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11 forwards said:
You use full season stats from 21/22. If you look at it after 15 rounds, it looks a bit different. Statline 11-2-2 is identical, and pg 2.33 for both seasons.

After that it goes:
Goals pg................2.13 ..............2.87
Goals ag pg...........0.66...............1.00

Goal differential is +28 this season and +23 last. Posession numbers is 67 this season, 68 last (full season), and 64 in 20/21.
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Great! I think either is a valid comparison really, but extra interesting to compare with 15 games in last season. Incidentally, where did you find that? Very useful resource.
 
cyberman said:
He is a fantastic player but three comes a limit when you’re scoring an obscene amount of goals that you’re cannibalising your teams output. Arsenal have only scored 7 goals less than City and are 5 points ahead. Jesus gets injured and they work around it, Haaland gets injured and City are in real trouble.
Haaland may always score but City as a team always scored as well so is it that much of an advantage when the number is so ridiculous? Arsenal have scored in every game this season while City have failed to score in 3. City need another goalscorer to stake their claim and take advantage of Haaland imo
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What?

City have survived numerous bad injuries in the past. We have no idea yet whether or not Arsenal will work around Jesus' injury, but we have plenty of reason to believe that City would be absolutely fine if Haaland got injured. I'm surprised I have to tell you this, but City kind of won the league without him a few months ago.
 
ColvaleGoa said:
Alvarez will knock out similar numbers too. Depressing!
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Not even close. I like Alvarez but rival fans are overrating him to an obscene degree. Nothing about his first few months at City suggested that he's anywhere near as good as Haaland. He mostly ran around like a headless chicken and committed fouls.
 
mark.ward82 said:
That equates to 76 goals in a season? You need to recheck your mathematics my friend. 20/14 = 1.42. 1.42x38 = 54.28 goals. That’s assuming he continues to score at his current rate and remains injury free and plays every game.

As for goat no way. Best goal scorer in the world yes, best player no. Those who think he is a better player than Mbappe have been playing too much FIFA, he is a poacher, a good one but a poacher. I genuinely can’t recall any point this season where he has contributed moments of magic and skill like Mbappe does. People can talk all day about how good Man City are but they are 5 points off the pace from a side with a fraction of the budget. “He is a cheat code” if so why are they not top?????
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This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on here, seeing as Mbappe is far far far far far better on FIFA than Haaland.
 
Zehner said:
Haven't seen enough of City to judge but if they find it harder to control games with Haaland on the pitch - which seems reasonable since he isn't involved as much - it means they don't defend through possession as much. The opponent can't score when you have the ball. And being less secure in possession can also mean more dangerous turnovers and thus more chances on the counter for the opponent.
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This 'control games' thing really didn't get us anywhere. Certainly did us absolutely zero good in the Champions League. The idea that we're worse off for becoming less obsessed with 'controlling games' is unfounded. At the end of the day, the winner of any match is the team that scores the most goals.
 
Noot said:
This 'control games' thing really didn't get us anywhere. Certainly did us absolutely zero good in the Champions League. The idea that we're worse off for becoming less obsessed with 'controlling games' is unfounded. At the end of the day, the winner of any match is the team that scores the most goals.
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When possession numbers are basically equal to last season (67,now/68 then), while goal diff is up by 5 from same round last season, isn't that a proof that "control of games" is keeping up just fine?

I'm curiously asking, because I don't always get the meaning of stats.
 
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Noot said:
This 'control games' thing really didn't get us anywhere. Certainly did us absolutely zero good in the Champions League. The idea that we're worse off for becoming less obsessed with 'controlling games' is unfounded. At the end of the day, the winner of any match is the team that scores the most goals.
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There's an interesting discussion there. Here's one way of looking at it: It's possible that an extreme emphasis on control (which I think would be a fair way to characterise City's playing style during the last couple of seasons especially) may be a good way to maximise results over 38 rounds in a league, where most games are played against clearly inferior opponents who often won't be able to produce almost anything in the face of it, and also very rarely can withstand it defensively. But it may be a much less efficient approach in knockout tournaments against teams of equal or nearly similar quality, where single loss is often enough to go out, where opponents have the quality to implement effective countermoves and where you will almost inevitably sooner or later end up in a situation where you need to come up with something different in 20 minutes or get eliminated. It seems to me likely that to succeed there, you need to be able to play in more than one way. Which is why I think you'll ultimately be a stronger team for having a more varied or balanced style.
 
Noot said:
Not even close. I like Alvarez but rival fans are overrating him to an obscene degree. Nothing about his first few months at City suggested that he's anywhere near as good as Haaland. He mostly ran around like a headless chicken and committed fouls.
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Has a No-lito vibe about him.
Dzeko and Negredo were much better 2nd choice strikers.
 
justsomebloke said:
There's an interesting discussion there. Here's one way of looking at it: It's possible that an extreme emphasis on control (which I think would be a fair way to characterise City's playing style during the last couple of seasons especially) may be a good way to maximise results over 38 rounds in a league, where most games are played against clearly inferior opponents who often won't be able to produce almost anything in the face of it, and also very rarely can withstand it defensively. But it may be a much less efficient approach in knockout tournaments against teams of equal or nearly similar quality, where single loss is often enough to go out, where opponents have the quality to implement effective countermoves and where you will almost inevitably sooner or later end up in a situation where you need to come up with something different in 20 minutes or get eliminated. It seems to me likely that to succeed there, you need to be able to play in more than one way. Which is why I think you'll ultimately be a stronger team for having a more varied or balanced style.
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Yes, exactly. We controlled the game brilliantly against Real Madrid for all but five minutes, and we still went out. Most of our Champions League exits have included at least one really bad miss that would have put us through.

For knockout football, what you actually need is someone who will get you goals when they most matter. We didn't have that against Madrid or in the final against Chelsea.
 
Karel Podolsky said:
Has a No-lito vibe about him.
Dzeko and Negredo were much better 2nd choice strikers.
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I mean, Negredo was great for all of five months. Alvarez won't need to do too much to exceed that.
 
Noot said:
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on here, seeing as Mbappe is far far far far far better on FIFA than Haaland.
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Yeah Mbappé is one of the most game breaking players of all time in video games haha. More unstoppable than Messi and Ronaldo at their peaks.
 
Haaland is in exalted company in his career so far



Not a bad player in that list, and up at the top with Messi and Pele. Will be interesting to see if he could maintain it.
 
Hope he leaves City for Saudi so he can't be a cheat code in Europe for other clubs.

At least go to Spain, just far away from the league with direct rivals.
 
The panel were talking about how United need other players to step up and help Rashford in the goals department but Haaland is carrying City, in that respect.
 
My prediction of 40+ PL goals might be slightly off, looks set for 50. Funny remembering how people laughed at him after his first couple of "bad" games, especially the community shield one.
 
He is a master at getting himself into positions. No better striker in the game today with that attribute. Lewa is still king, but he is a different triker than Haaland.
 
The good thing is that it seems like he wants to test himself in many different leagues. Don't think his dream is to be the all-time top scorer for City.

He will probably bag a three PL titles as top scorer and try out La Liga.
 
He hoovers up all the goals that would otherwise have been scored by their other players now, but for all this 'cheat code' bollocks, I don't see how City are demonstrably better than they were before.

He's Pippo Inzaghi on roids and HGH.
 
Wish he wasn’t at city because he’s a likeable character. He’s been kicked form minute 1 today and he’s responded by scoring, laughing at them and getting stuck in himself. No whinging or crying.
 
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