Ah, the old UKIP route
Non-Tory voters, what would it take for you to vote Tory?
- Thread starter rcoobc
- Start date
This. It's the only reason I won't be voting Tory.
What on earth are you on about, there's no one more left than me. Its probably you that is ukip or bnp, how will you vote.
Lemme guess lib dem?
It. It was a reference. To how UKIP have disappeared...
"VOTE Brexit, VOTE Brexit" *vanish*
You figuratively sucking Le Pens cock suggests otherwise.
@rcoobc The ex-Norway foreign minister wrote a piece a while back for the Guardian (I think?) Slating the deal for the reasons above. It's no panacea.
From what I recall the Norway parties are in an odd position on the EU, both want to fully join but the public keep telling them to bugger off.
Sounds about right. Danes big sceptics too.
Is this correct I heard the remain camp saying Norway was bound to the customs union and countries inside that couldn't have separate deals?
I'd rather be in Norway's position than ours
(under the assumption that, brexit is an inevitable beast that cannot be stopped)
I once voted Tory. Labour safe seat after the 28 day detention controversy and the erosion of civil liberties under New Labour.
I respected David Davis for resigning in protest and also voted Tory in protest. I've actually voted for all three main parties in the General Election, but it would take a lot to get me to vote for them in an area they have a decent chance of winning.
I respected David Davis for resigning in protest and also voted Tory in protest. I've actually voted for all three main parties in the General Election, but it would take a lot to get me to vote for them in an area they have a decent chance of winning.
Noway are not in the Customs union. They negotiate as part of the EFTA and get to have their own trade deals, including Canada before the EU did. There are little 'customs' signs were lorries can stop and declare what they need to, before moving along.
But Norway are also part of the single market. They are bound the EU treaties, and have to accept free movement of workers into their country. This is obviously both a blessing and a curse.
Hypothetically, a UK that went for soft Brexit, could actually be that beacon of free trade certain Tory members like to talk about. We could have a free trade deal with the USA, with Australia, with New Zealand, with South Africa with Japan, with South Korea, and so on, all the whilst maintaining our current relationships with the European Union. We could be this mythical Singapore of Europe, where non European companies like to base to gain access to Europe.
The counter argument to this though, is time and energy. Brexit is going to take 2 years to negotiate, maybe longer. We will likely stay within the Single Market until the new free trade deal has been complete. This isn't certain, but it seems logical to keep things as they are until it has been decided what is replacing it. Right now the UK can't negotiate with the USA, and probably won't be able to for 2-5 years. Donald Trump may very well be out of office, before the UK can even start to negotiate with the US. The EU however, can negotiate with the USA right now, and indeed, early negotiations have already taken place. The EU also already have free trade agreements with Mexico and soon Canada, who also have free trade deals with the USA. So a broad US-EU trade looks very promising.
But maybe the UK really do want to do their own trade deals at the same time. Maybe we really want to bring back the commonwealth, and buy our food from our former commonwealth countries, rather than Eastern Europe. If so, and if that was all we were after, then soft-brexit really is the way to go.
Hard Brexit though, makes little to no sense. We are turning our back on our largest trade partner (the EU) and thousands of businesses will lose rights to work in the EU, and many may simply move there. At the same time, it may take a long time before we can negotiate with the USA anyway.
UK citizenship followed by a lobotomy.
- Telling Murdoch to do one
- Stop selling weapons to autocratic murderous states
- Reverse their devastating cuts on the poor and vulnerable
- Making an effort to plug tax loop holes
- Higher taxes for the rich and corporations
The end of the world.
So what does that mean? What does the Uk do now to be in the customs union compared to saying feck it get stuffed and doing what Norway do?
Well T May has said we won't be in the customs union. Leaving the customs union is what enables us to have our own trade deals. I.e. 0% goods can come in from America, but if they leave the UK, customs will charge duty and vat as needed.
But we can leave the customs union whilst still having a free trade agreement (so goods are free to enter the EU from UK and visa versa) and we can also stay in the single market (allowing buissneses and people to work in EU from UK and visa versa)
T May is taking us out the single market which I think is a huge mistake. Few businesses want this. But she has to to cut immigration.
She's also taking us out the customs union, which i think is mostly fine if we have a good free trade agreement in place, but could cause some chaos at Dover
I.e. the big difference between us and Norway will be that Norway businesses can work in Europe
Well, maybe i just see the other side of the argument, try it, its enlightening.
For the record i wouldn't vote for either but to keep a balance will continue to argue againts the bias.
A packet of crisps and a can of Vimto
"Bias" against a racist. Shame on us. You keep doing your public service to immigrant bashes everywhere.
You're not being a contrarian for the sake of argument, you've spent months, years even, on this forum actively arguing for the right wing. Reading opposing views, sure, that can be enlightening, but what the feck does praising - i.e, not saying something merely for the sake of argument, saying "yes, that's really good" about the exact opposite of the left have to do with being left wing? Let alone "the most left wing".
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Aguero banned from football.
A set of policies I wanted to see implemented. Or promised to be anyway.
I could easily vote Tory if they increased investment in schools and the NHS and removed NHS Private initiatives. Demand access to the single market while offering tokens to make sure it happened not matter what they are. Look to make Google/Ebay/Amazon pay their fair share (amongst others).
Unfortunately they will win and won't do any of those.
Unfortunately they will win and won't do any of those.
The irony of the use of 'enlightening' when defending a woman who is the latest in a long line of extreme right wing, counter revolutionary figures in France (the consistency in their message for over 200 years is remarkable really) is pretty startling
Considered voting for them back in 2010 after the Blair administration but would never ever look at Tories ever again now.
A Tory party that represents my values. Unfortunately I'm not a millionaire who despises the poor.
@sammsky1
But to be fair horsechoker, they've increased the personal allowance to £11.5k from £6k when they took charge.
If a couple each had a £12k a year job, they would earn an extra £2300 a year now than they did back in 2009. Over the last 7 years, the Tories would have saved them a total of over £9k (hmm someone check my maths).
Obviously some of that would have happened anyway
Nothing needed..... there are only two credible options (in my eyes, personal opinion, each to their own, etc) but Tory is lesser of 2 evils.
I'd never vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge..... guy wants to dismantle Trident, try "chatting" to Kim Jong Un about peaceful ways forward (good luck with that?!) and despite being asked hundreds of times, STILL won't condemn IRA, thinks they're independence fighters and stood up for a minutes silence to honour the IRA guys who had tried to bomb a police station.
Cant believe Labour haven't dumped him..... loon.
I'd never vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge..... guy wants to dismantle Trident, try "chatting" to Kim Jong Un about peaceful ways forward (good luck with that?!) and despite being asked hundreds of times, STILL won't condemn IRA, thinks they're independence fighters and stood up for a minutes silence to honour the IRA guys who had tried to bomb a police station.
Cant believe Labour haven't dumped him..... loon.
Bang on the money, this is the only way I could ever vote for them too. Excellent thread /question though OP, it was a very hard one to answer!
@sammsky1
But to be fair horsechoker, they've increased the personal allowance to £11.5k from £6k when they took charge.
If a couple each had a £12k a year job, they would earn an extra £2300 a year now than they did back in 2009. Over the last 7 years, the Tories would have saved them a total of over £9k (hmm someone check my maths).
Obviously some of that would have happened anyway
is this true?
Yes I think so.
It should be noted that, the personal allowance was due to rise by part of that anyway, and lifting it was a Lib Dem policy. It also should be noted that the National Insurance Threshold hasn't risen as fast, meaning employers are still paying 12% National Insurance on earnings above £8160 (broken down monthly or weekly)
Yes I think so.
Total saved for a couple earning over £12k a year each is over £9k so far. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
It should be noted that, the personal allowance was due to rise but part of that anyway, and lifting it was a Lib Dem policy.
should be a no brainer then really
I would vote for whoever benefits me personally. Therefore this seems a good deal
Thats just the problem with tories, yhey give tax breaks and then cut back on services they can no longer afford. Its completely the wrong way to do things but it gets them elected. As i have said before, i pay doubke the amount of tax someone in the uk would pay on my salary and we dont have shitty infrastructure.@sammsky1
But to be fair horsechoker, they've increased the personal allowance to £11.5k from £6k when they took charge.
If a couple each had a £12k a year job, they would earn an extra £2300 a year now than they did back in 2009. Over the last 7 years, the Tories would have saved them a total of over £9k (hmm someone check my maths).
Obviously some of that would have happened anyway
Another short sighted voter!
I'll explain again. Labour spent too much on public services when they should have been reducing the government debt. Crash happened and Labour's lack of saving and investment resulted in a much higher debt than would otherwise be the case.
This debt comes with interest payments. Interest payments mean less money available to spend on public services.
Conservatives are thus forced to reduce spend to reduce this interest so that more people can be saved in the future.
Better one casualty today than 10 tomorrow!
So show all the stories you want, but if Labour hadn't got us into so much debt there may not have had to be this level of cuts and that guy might have been saved.
Add to the fact Labour love hand outs meaning less people working, less people paying taxes and higher government spend that can't go on saving lives.
However you look at it Labour lack basic economic sense.
If you arent wealthy or xenophobic and have decent intelligence theres no reason to vote right wing anywhere.
Yet UK Govt debt as a % of GDP has increased significantly under successive Tory governments?
It's ideologically driven dis-mantling of the state hidden under a tissue paper thin veneer of O Level economics mis-direction.
jesus christ
Song as old as time. "If you vote Tories they will cut services". "If you vote Labour they will raise taxes!"
RedTillImDead... name change needed?
Him too. So Randall who is your right wing flavour in Ireland right now?