Nolan's Batman

Part 4: Gripes

Now I can fill the caf with gripes and plot holes, but I'm not going to as they don't matter a jot. Some one said earlier we nitpick Bay films yet give this a by. The reason, because they don't matter, the film itself was enjoyable so you do forgive it everything. If at the point of Batman returning within the last hours of the countdown and having a hollywood send off you care more about the facrt that he has recovered from having his back broken and made a full recovery from every injury he's ever had whilst become super srong, over the journey you've been on then maybe you need to lighten up.

I will happily nitpick a film to death if it was crap and pretends to be something it's not whilst getting praise from the highest quarters even though overall it dull, boring and shit (NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN, INCEPTION are prime examples). This though, this was a big goodbye to everyone and it was waving us off on a great fun ride. It was Nolan riding the bomb, stark naked, bollocks dangling in the wind and every other metaphor I can think of for not giving a shit other than enjoy the ride. It was a send of for us all and damned be sense and sensibility.

Well except for one gripe.......

and for me it was the biggest in the whole film. The Whole series. The one thing that I couldn't reconcile.

Alfred would never, ever, ever, ever leave Bruce. Don't justify it, don't argue it, it just wouldn't happen.

Superman would in cold blood murder Lois Lane and declare himself an anarchist. Bond would be impotent.

Alfred though would never ever leave.
 
Alfred did leave Batman in the comics that TDKR is heavily based on. Look up Batman: Knighfall.
 
Snow said:
Alfred did leave Batman in the comics that TDKR is heavily based on. Look up Batman: Knighfall.
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Don't care. Alfred doesn't ever ever leave Batman.
 
So he does in the source material but can't in the movie?
 
Leg-End said:
So he does in the source material but can't in the movie?
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He doesn't really leave him in the source material though. He's still around. and ends up back with him very quickly to help him.
 
gambit28 said:
Don't care. Alfred doesn't ever ever leave Batman.
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:lol: Well technically he didn't leave him, he decided to stay in England so he didn't have to see Bruce receive any more physical damage, but definitely what the film is referencing.

Other than that, it was a lovely little review / write up on the film btw, nice read.
 
gambit28 said:
He doesn't really leave him in the source material though. He's still around. and ends up back with him very quickly to help him.
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Thinking of it that way, I do agree with your point, it would of been nice to see Alfred return earlier in the film and help Bruce Wayne tbh. The relationship between Wayne & Alfred was a fundamental plot point in the trilogy, but once Alfred leaves him there is nothing more about the two and is quite sad tbh, their scenes over the three films were always brilliant and it would of been nice to have a few more in TDKR. I understand it's meant to bring out more emotion in Alfred at the end because he feels that he “failed” the Wayne family, but surely he would of felt exactly the same way if he had returned to help him out.

There is also the point that nobody could have gotten back into Gotham during the siege, so maybe that’s why Alfred didn’t come back – but, again, that’s just nitpicking.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Something like this?

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:lol:

Tag on this to the end and you've got a win.



Agree with pretty much all of gambits reviews/points/wafflings. Except probably this..

gambit28 said:
The only film he could make next would be the Dark Knight returns and for that we will have to wait for 20 years.
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Since, well, wasn't this basically The Dark Knight Returns anyway?

And I think the whole Alfred thing was needed because he would've become a hindrance during the 3rd act, as he would've been one of the first to be round up. Other than that, I couldn't agree more with everything else.
 
gaz1185 said:
I agree with that point, it would of been nice to see Alfred return earlier in the film and help Bruce Wayne tbh. The relationship between Wayne & Alfred was a fundamental plot point in the trilogy, but once Alfred leaves him there is nothing more about the two and is quite sad tbh, their scenes over the three films were always brilliant and it would of been nice to have a few more in TDKR. I understand it's meant to bring out more emotion in Alfred at the end because he feels that he “failed” the Wayne family, but surely he would of felt exactly the same way if he had returned to help him out.

There is also the point that nobody could have gotten back into Gotham during the siege, so maybe that’s why Alfred didn’t come back – but, again, that’s just nitpicking.
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Alfred always gets where he needs to be. It would have been Alfred that would have got him out of the pit not some inner quest. He wouldn't have abandoned him completly. Instead he fecks off for the majority of the film and leaves him to it.
 
Mockney said:
Since, well, wasn't this basically The Dark Knight Returns anyway?
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No. More Knightfall, son of the demon and no mans land mash up. Read it (The Dark Knight returns), you'll like it. You'll see where the influences come in as well. Also you read the watchmen but did you know the whole thing was a metaphor for the superhero comc book industry.
 
tbf, there is plenty of Returns in Rises(the start and kind of the ending), but I did come out thinking the same, that he could use it again more true to the novel if he wanted to do a 20 year later thing, but I highly doubt. Could Nolanverse really be so dumb as to not realize a Batman/Wayne reappearance again? Plus how often does the whole "go back to the franchise near retirement" actually work, but I guess it's a challenge. Despite the flaws, he broke the second sequel curse.
 
Zen said:
tbf, there is plenty of Returns in Rises(the start and kind of the ending), but I did come out thinking the same, that he could use it again more true to the novel if he wanted to do a 20 year later thing, but I highly doubt. Could Nolanverse really be so dumb as to not realize a Batman/Wayne reappearance again? Plus how often does the whole "go back to the franchise near retirement" actually work, but I guess it's a challenge. Despite the flaws, he broke the second sequel curse.
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Yeah but no Batman beating the living crap out of Superman.
 
gambit28 said:
Yeah but no Batman beating the living crap out of Superman.
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I can't find my original comic of this special event:(

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A friend made a good point. The fights between Bane and Batman were the live action equivalents of the Peter Griffen Rooster battles.
 
Just got home from watching it. Why isn't Bane THAT strong? I want him to go round flipping cars and kicking Batman across rooms.
 
Luminous Lizard said:
Just got home from watching it. Why isn't Bane THAT strong? I want him to go round flipping cars and kicking Batman across rooms.
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He pretty much did in the first half, then Wayne jumped across a gap and the world changed.
 
He beat him up before he was back in shape. But in the comics isn't he meant to have super strength? Plus it never went into the venom or anything to explain why he is so big. Apart from a few quick words that didn't really explain anything.
 
If you haven't realised they're supposed to be the toned down non-supernatural versions of these characters by now, you've missed the boat by about 8 years.
 
Luminous Lizard said:
He beat him up before he was back in shape. But in the comics isn't he meant to have super strength? Plus it never went into the venom or anything to explain why he is so big. Apart from a few quick words that didn't really explain anything.
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Why does it need to be explained why he's so big. It's not like the Hulk walked on screen.
 
Because he isn't just some guy who went to the gym a lot. He was already strong then got injected with Venom making him exceptionally strong.
 
So why can he punch holes in walls? That was my point, it didn't explain why he was such a beast. I was just asking if I missed anything that explained it.
 
Seen this again, still fantastic.
 
Luminous Lizard said:
So why can he punch holes in walls? That was my point, it didn't explain why he was such a beast. I was just asking if I missed anything that explained it.
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Eh? He was a big tough bastard. By that point it was all you needed to know. No venom or anything.
 
I just figured the fact he's a big bastard, added to the fact he has a small amount of constant pain killers put into his body, is why he's such a vicious bastard.
 
Big-Red said:
I just figured the fact he's a big bastard, added to the fact he has a small amount of constant pain killers put into his body, is why he's such a vicious bastard.
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At that point, who cared?
 
Luminous Lizard said:
So why can he punch holes in walls? That was my point, it didn't explain why he was such a beast. I was just asking if I missed anything that explained it.
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Big-Red said:
I just figured the fact he's a big bastard, added to the fact he has a small amount of constant pain killers put into his body, is why he's such a vicious bastard.
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Yeah, basically he's just a viciously skilled fighting machine who's constantly filled with pain killers so he hardly feels anything, hence the reason he was so feared by people. His strength seemed to be there whilst he was in the Pit, but his fighting skills that made him who he was were trained to him by the LoS.

The punching holes in to walls only came at the end, but I think that was due to pure rage. Batman had found his weakness and started to dislodge the mask, once the painkillers stopped working on Bane he seems to flip, losing his close combat skills and just throwing punches anywhere in anger just to get at Batman.
 
gaz1185 said:
Yeah, basically he's just a viciously skilled fighting machine who's constantly filled with pain killers so he hardly feels anything, hence the reason he was so feared by people. His strength seemed to be there whilst he was in the Pit, but his fighting skills that made him who he was were trained to him by the LoS.

The punching holes in to walls only came at the end, but I think that was due to pure rage. Batman had found his weakness and started to dislodge the mask, once the painkillers stopped working on Bane he seems to flip, losing his close combat skills and just throwing punches anywhere in anger just to get at Batman.
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This, exactly what I concluded.
 
Big-Red said:
This, exactly what I concluded.
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;) One of my favourite scenes as well, to me it just shown the first signs of nervousness in Bane's character that we hadn't seen before and was well blended with the action / fighting sequence.
 
One of my main issues.

The prisoners of the pit could of easily escapred without the jump. Why couldn't they all just shimmy up the safety rope? As it was attached to the top of the pit
 
Saw it last night. I enjoyed it but I thought it was the weakest of the 3.
 
Hal9000 said:
One of my main issues.

The prisoners of the pit could of easily escapred without the jump. Why couldn't they all just shimmy up the safety rope? As it was attached to the top of the pit
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It was attached mid way up to break the fall of the climber.
 
Hal9000 said:
One of my main issues.

The prisoners of the pit could of easily escapred without the jump. Why couldn't they all just shimmy up the safety rope? As it was attached to the top of the pit
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You may be getting confused with the rope at the top that Wayne dropped down on his way out. This was obviously the rope that Bane uses to get in/out of the pit. The support rope for climbing was only attached mid way.
 
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