Niklas Süle \ signs for Dortmund

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Lash said:
Is he actually any good @Hansi Fick? Can't really remember the last time I saw him play
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Süle is an amazing package:
- he's a physical monster, absolutely massive guy so opponents basically bounce off him, and he also looks like I imagine the reanimated corpse of Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane would look if we removed the armour
- he is deceptively fast; obviously he takes some time to turn and get going, but is very pacey, not just for his size
- on top of all that, he's an astonishing technician, he's got the skills of a Brazilian flair player, which together with his ogre-ish appearance and size makes it such a baffling and highly entertaining combination.

Every once in a while he will go on a run including stepovers and backheel passes, and it's these runs that earned him the nickname "Sülinho".
He had some moments, especially when he was playing right back for us at select times, that were absolutely priceless and fecking hilarious, and which makes it to me very sad and painful to lose him as a player. There's few things I cherish as much as a Sülinho moment, and I'm not the only one.

As a little taste, here's a video from Bayern training with Lewandoski, Müller, and Süle goofing around taking penalties. After a while, Süle start taking them Rabona-style, one after the other. At first, Lewandowski in goal is surprised and cheering, after a while he gets a little weary as the coin drops with him that probably Süle should be taking pens in games, too, instead of Lewandowski, and Rabona-style. (was already posted in the German football thread at the time)




Anyway, Süle was starter and consistent performer already at a young age at Hoffenheim (in fact Nagelsmann as youth coach had converted him from a playmaker to a defender, and later became Hoffenheim head coach when Süle was already a key player). When Bayern bought him for considerable money (20m €), everyone, among them Jupp Heynckes, was predicting him to be the eminent German defender of the future, and a mainstay for Bayern for years to come.

And now for the complications:
- Süle has had two ACL injuries already, one when was still at Hoffenheim, and one at Bayern. The latter one occurred early in the treble season 19/20. The season after he was performing inconsistently and at times downright horribly (not the only poor performer in that season's defense, mind you, a lot of horror shows going on)
- it's not quite conclusive, players take time to get back, but it might be some of his pace has already been affected by the injuries
- as @2ndTouch writes, over the years he's been continually critiziced for his dietary discipline (apparently he loves his junk food), and it was implied that this was bordering on, or venturing into, unprofessionalism territory. The picture emerging was one of a struggle to reach top fitness; he's been pushing back to that and was visibly annoyed with these allegations at one point, while he was also recovering from injury, so it's hard to know what's what. But since also people who have been pushing and mentoring him (Nagelsmann and Heynckes) have alluded to it, there's probably something there.
- this complex (the mixture of a long injury absence, squabble over supposed fitness struggles and diet, and a period of shaky performances) have made the marriage between club and player more difficult than anyone would have guessed, especially the timing of a renewal now falls just after this period so that probably the new contract offer the club made wasn't too massively generous, probably only average in terms of our wage structure
- by all accounts, he's a fan of the Premier League and eager to be playing in it at some point.

So now he hasn't renewed and is leaving.

Will Nagelsmann be happy? I don't think so. Nagelsmann rates Süle highly and likes to start him. Especially in his hybrid backline formation a player like Süle is a great asset.
It will remain to be seen how long Nagelsmann will keep being okay and smiling with the squad planning made by our DoF - one major rift between Brazzo and Flick was that the club let both of Flick's favourite starting CBs leave at the same time...

Do I wish the club had fought more to keep him? Absolutely I do. It's an unique player, and I hate to see him go. What I don't know though is how high our offer was, what other offers he has and whether he didn't simply want to go abroad anyway.

I'm gutted, not that he leaves at all (which is fair enough at some point), but because I think we should have had some more years of him.
 
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Hansi Fick said:
Süle is an amazing package:
- he's a physical monster, absolutely massive guy so opponents basically bounce off him, and he also looks like I imagine the reanimated corpse of Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane would look if we removed the armour
- he is deceptively fast; obviously he takes some time to turn and get going, but is very pacey, not just for his size
- on top of all that, he's an astonishing technician, he's got the skills of a Brazilian superstar, which together with his ogre-ish appearance and size makes it such a baffling and highly entertaining combination.

Every once in a while he will go on a run including stepovers and backheel passes, and it's these runs that earned him the nickname "Sülinho".
He had some moments, especially when he was playing right back for us at select times, that were absolutely priceless and fecking hilarious, and which makes it to me very sad and painful to lose him as a player. There's few things I cherish as much as a Sülinho moment.

As a little taste, here's a video from Bayern training with Lewandoski, Müller, and Süle goofing around taking penalties. After a while, Süle start taking them Rabona-style, one after the other. At first, Lewandowski in goal is surprised and cheering, after a while he gets a little weary as the coin drops with him that probably Süle should be taking pens in games, too, instead of Lewandowski, and Rabona-style. (was already posted in the German football thread at the time)



Anyway, Süle was starter and consistent performer already at a young age at Hoffenheim (in fact Nagelsmann as youth coach had converted him from a playmaker to a defender, and later became Hoffenheim head coach when Süle was already a key player). When Bayern bought him for considerable money (20m €), everyone, among them Jupp Heynckes, was predicting him to be the eminent German defender of the future, and a mainstay for Bayern for years to come.

And now for the complications:
- Süle has had two ACL injuries already, one when was still at Hoffenheim, and one at Bayern. The latter one occurred early in the treble season 19/20. The season after he was performing inconsistently and at times downright horribly (not the only poor performer in that season's defense, mind you, a lot of horror shows going on)
- as @2ndTouch writes, over the years he's been continually critiziced for his dietary discipline (apparently he loves his junk food), and it was implied that this was bordering on, or venturing into, unprofessionalism territory. The picture emerging was one of a struggle to reach top fitness; he's been pushing back to that and was visibly annoyed with these allegations at one point, while he was also recovering from injury, so it's hard to know what's what. But since also people who have been pushing and mentoring him (Nagelsmann and Heynckes) have alluded to it, there's probably something there.
- this complex (the mixture of a long injury absence, squabble over supposed fitness struggles and diet, and a period of shaky performances) have made the marriage between club and player more difficult than anyone would have guesses, especially the timing of a renewal now falls just after this period so that probably the new contract offer the club made wasn't too massively generous, probably only average in terms of our wage structure
- by all accounts, he's a fan of the Premier League and eager to be playing in it at some point.

That's why he hasn't renewed and is leaving.

Will Nagelsmann be happy? I don't think so. Nagelsmann rates Süle highly and likes to start him. Especially in his hybrid backline formation a player like Süle is a great asset.
It will remain to be seen how long Nagelsmann will keep being okay and smiling with the squad planning made by our DoF - one major rift between Brazzo and Flick was that the club let both of Flick's favourite starting CBs leave at the same time...

Do I wish the club had fought more to keep him? Absolutely I do. It's an unique player, and I hate to see him go. What I don't know though is how hight our offer was, what offers he has and whether he didn't simply want to go abroad anyway.
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Well that's me sold break the bank
 
He lacks ambition to actually perform at his highest possible level. Pretty sure once he signs his next big contract, we will see his form dip heavily.
 
Hansi Fick said:
What I don't know though is how high our offer was, what other offers he has and whether he didn't simply want to go abroad anyway.
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The board he received a generous offer. Well that's what they always say, don't they?
I remember to have read the figure out 10 million Euro.

I also like Süle and would have preferred he signed the contract.
On the other hand i can understand the club is looking for better options, because of the already discussed issues like weight& fitness, 2 ACL injuries already and his public statements which didn't sound he is really committed to be a Bayern player. I wouldn't mind a swap with Rüdiger or even Christensen.
 
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B. Munich said:
The board he received a generous offer. Well that's what they always say, don't they?
I remember to have read the figure out 10 million Euro.
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Yep. Which would be low-balling and simply not good enough, if true. All of his NT mates get more, foreign clubs will offer much, much more.
 
B. Munich said:
I also like Süle and would have preferred he signed the contract.
On the other hand i can understand the club is looking for better options, because of the already discussed issues like weight& fitness, 2 ACL injuries already and his public statements which didn't sound he is really committed to be a Bayern player. I wouldn't mind a swap with Rüdiger or even Christensen.
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I'll be happy with either of them, but for me they are not better than Süle. Epecially considering that Rüdiger would command the kind of wages we weren't prepared to give Süle.
 
Hansi Fick said:
Süle is an amazing package:
- he's a physical monster, absolutely massive guy so opponents basically bounce off him, and he also looks like I imagine the reanimated corpse of Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane would look if we removed the armour
- he is deceptively fast; obviously he takes some time to turn and get going, but is very pacey, not just for his size
- on top of all that, he's an astonishing technician, he's got the skills of a Brazilian flair player, which together with his ogre-ish appearance and size makes it such a baffling and highly entertaining combination.

Every once in a while he will go on a run including stepovers and backheel passes, and it's these runs that earned him the nickname "Sülinho".
He had some moments, especially when he was playing right back for us at select times, that were absolutely priceless and fecking hilarious, and which makes it to me very sad and painful to lose him as a player. There's few things I cherish as much as a Sülinho moment, and I'm not the only one.

As a little taste, here's a video from Bayern training with Lewandoski, Müller, and Süle goofing around taking penalties. After a while, Süle start taking them Rabona-style, one after the other. At first, Lewandowski in goal is surprised and cheering, after a while he gets a little weary as the coin drops with him that probably Süle should be taking pens in games, too, instead of Lewandowski, and Rabona-style. (was already posted in the German football thread at the time)




Anyway, Süle was starter and consistent performer already at a young age at Hoffenheim (in fact Nagelsmann as youth coach had converted him from a playmaker to a defender, and later became Hoffenheim head coach when Süle was already a key player). When Bayern bought him for considerable money (20m €), everyone, among them Jupp Heynckes, was predicting him to be the eminent German defender of the future, and a mainstay for Bayern for years to come.

And now for the complications:
- Süle has had two ACL injuries already, one when was still at Hoffenheim, and one at Bayern. The latter one occurred early in the treble season 19/20. The season after he was performing inconsistently and at times downright horribly (not the only poor performer in that season's defense, mind you, a lot of horror shows going on)
- it's not quite conclusive, players take time to get back, but it might be some of his pace has already been affected by the injuries
- as @2ndTouch writes, over the years he's been continually critiziced for his dietary discipline (apparently he loves his junk food), and it was implied that this was bordering on, or venturing into, unprofessionalism territory. The picture emerging was one of a struggle to reach top fitness; he's been pushing back to that and was visibly annoyed with these allegations at one point, while he was also recovering from injury, so it's hard to know what's what. But since also people who have been pushing and mentoring him (Nagelsmann and Heynckes) have alluded to it, there's probably something there.
- this complex (the mixture of a long injury absence, squabble over supposed fitness struggles and diet, and a period of shaky performances) have made the marriage between club and player more difficult than anyone would have guessed, especially the timing of a renewal now falls just after this period so that probably the new contract offer the club made wasn't too massively generous, probably only average in terms of our wage structure
- by all accounts, he's a fan of the Premier League and eager to be playing in it at some point.

So now he hasn't renewed and is leaving.

Will Nagelsmann be happy? I don't think so. Nagelsmann rates Süle highly and likes to start him. Especially in his hybrid backline formation a player like Süle is a great asset.
It will remain to be seen how long Nagelsmann will keep being okay and smiling with the squad planning made by our DoF - one major rift between Brazzo and Flick was that the club let both of Flick's favourite starting CBs leave at the same time...

Do I wish the club had fought more to keep him? Absolutely I do. It's an unique player, and I hate to see him go. What I don't know though is how high our offer was, what other offers he has and whether he didn't simply want to go abroad anyway.

I'm gutted, not that he leaves at all (which is fair enough at some point), but because I think we should have had some more years of him.
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Thanks for that, certainly sounds like an interesting profile. I would love a player like that too.
 
Lazy comparison but whenever I've seen Sule play for Bayern in the CL he's always reminded me of Stam.

Whenever he moves forward with the ball you can image the ground shaking.
 
Hansi Fick said:
He had some moments, especially when he was playing right back for us at select times, that were absolutely priceless and fecking hilarious, and which makes it to me very sad and painful to lose him as a player.
Click to expand...
I just want to emphasize this point. Panicking fullbacks who are used to defend against players half his size just bouncing of him is quite funny to watch.
 
Hansi Fick said:
Yep. Which would be low-balling and simply not good enough, if true. All of his NT mates get more, foreign clubs will offer much, much more.
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How many players you think can earn 15m+ without plunging our club into a Barca like mess?
 
Hansi Fick said:
I'll be happy with either of them, but for me they are not better than Süle. Epecially considering that Rüdiger would command the kind of wages we weren't prepared to give Süle.
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You are right with your assessment. However, I'm sure the board also knows this. For some, to us unknown, reason they didn't offer Süle more money like they did e.g. with Coman.
As i wrote in my previous post this can be his lifestyle, the ACL injuries or/and his continuous flirting with other leagues and clubs.
I trust the board here to take the right decision.
 
2ndTouch said:
How many players you think can earn 15m+ without plunging our club into a Barca like mess?
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I don't know. Obviously a valid point, I'm not going to claim it's not tricky especially since I know feck all about it, and then there's the continuous, massive loss of revenue due to Covid restrictions.

But:
- two top earners in defense fell away with Alaba and Boateng.
- Barca didn't have the trouble so much because of too many players getting 15m+, but because of a smaller number of players getting disproportionally more. Messi obviously, but also Griezmann, Suarez, Coutinho getting multiples of even our best earners. Then comes the transfer fee rates.
- notwithstanding the total money, there's internal dynamics and relations of justice of the wage structure. Hernandez, for example, earns a lot. Even Sabitzer and Upamecano, both of whom have absolutely not shown so far to be up to it, like at all, are earning more than Süle would get for his renewal. How much do you think Gnabry will get when he renews? It's clear that an offer like that would not be acceptable for Süle, who's entering his prime at 26.
It is low-balling him, no matter whether it's due to us not being able to afford it or for other reasons.
 
Hansi Fick said:
I don't know. Obviously a valid point, I'm not going to claim it's not tricky especially since I know feck all about it, and then there's the continuous, massive loss of revenue due to Covid restrictions.

But:
- two top earners in defense fell away with Alaba and Boateng.
- Barca didn't have the trouble so much because of too many players getting 15m+, but because of a smaller number of players getting disproportionally more. Messi obviously, but also Griezmann, Suarez, Coutinho getting multiples of even our best earners. Then comes the transfer fee rates.
- notwithstanding the total money, there's internal dynamics and relations of justice of the wage structure. Hernandez, for example, earns a lot. Even Sabitzer and Upamecano, both of whom have absolutely not shown so far to be up to it, like at all, are earning more than Süle would get for his renewal. How much do you think Gnabry will get when he renews? It's clear that an offer like that would not be acceptable for Süle, who's entering his prime at 26.
It is low-balling him, no matter whether it's due to us not being able to afford it or for other reasons.
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-Kimmich, Goretzka,Coman just signed new contracts, each worth 15-20m a year. Gnabry is supposed to be next, another 15m contract.
- Upa is on supposed 9, and I highly doubt Sabitzer is anywhere near your estimate.

We're not a sugar daddy club, nor do we have a PL-like TV deal. And this entails not being able to match player demands from time to time, whether they are justified or not. Get over it.
 
Hansi Fick said:
That's right, us not being a "sugar daddy club" means we have no choice but to let 3 starting CBs leave on free transfers within 12 months. Got it.
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Boateng was a conscious and right decision, Alaba left despite all the ass-kissing from our higher ups. Sorry, I just don't see our higher ups at any fault here. Süle had his part in the skepticism our board displayed at times. Now, the money isn't enough, and he doesn't feel 'appreciated' enough. I say, whatever, go find your luck elsewhere. We still have 3+1 able frenchmen back there bar the possible replacement. You're a big fan of him, so I can see why it hurts you. But in the end, we'll survive this just like the departures of Thiago and Alaba.
 
2ndTouch said:
Boateng was a conscious and right decision, Alaba left despite all the ass-kissing from our higher ups. Sorry, I just don't see our higher ups at any fault here. Süle had his part in the skepticism our board displayed at times. Now, the money isn't enough, and he doesn't feel 'appreciated' enough. I say, whatever, go find your luck elsewhere. We still have 3+1 able frenchmen back there bar the possible replacement. You're a big fan of him, so I can see why it hurts you. But in the end, we'll survive this just like the departures of Thiago and Alaba.
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I'd deleted my post already as it was picking an unnecessary fight. We are not really in disagreement. Got to watch my tone too as I'm apparently very annoying :nervous:

I'll just say this. "It's not enough to survive"

Sülinho :(
 
Hansi Fick said:
I'll just say this. "It's not enough to survive"

Sülinho :(
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I'm sure the board are in talks with an adequate replacement.
Again attitude, professionalism and his injury susceptibility didn't justify the board went all in like with Coman. Much harder to get a replacement for him.

Sülinho's backheel cost us 3 points against Gladbach.
 
One of the main reasons I want him is because I crave a German legend/top player at United.

Sure he won't be the be that great, but we really haven't had an amazing German player at United in our history and I'd like that to change.
 
Bebestation said:
One of the main reasons I want him is because I crave a German legend/top player at United.

Sure he won't be the be that great, but we really haven't had an amazing German player at United in our history and I'd like that to change.
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True but Germany isn't the only major football nation being underrepresented at United.

I can't remember of a top Brazilian or Italian player either. That's 3 most successful football nations with 13 world cups.

And no Fred or Anderson aren't top Brazilian players.
 
Bebestation said:
One of the main reasons I want him is because I crave a German legend/top player at United.

Sure he won't be the be that great, but we really haven't had an amazing German player at United in our history and I'd like that to change.
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You had Schweinsteiger, so you got the legend part covered. Süle might be the top player because you didn't get that.
 
Hansi Fick said:
Süle is an amazing package:

- he is deceptively fast; obviously he takes some time to turn and get going, but is very pacey, not just for his size
Click to expand...
This coupled with the ACL repeat is what worries me but he is a good age.

Crazy to think this back four are available on frees this summer:

Mandava - Rudiger - Sule - Mazraoui
 
If you have a McDonald`s in your town and can pay a big wage you are in the race.
 
Leipzig vs Bayern. Honestly Sule is the by far best defender in that Bayern defense. Hernandez and Upamecano look pretty unstable, Pavard is just strange. I am not saying Sule is without fault, but letting him go and keeping the rest is crazy in my eyes. If Man Utd can get him it should be an absolut no brainer.
 
Sad to see him go.

If the reports are true and we offered him less than 10 millions (Kimmich, Goretzka and Coman all recently renewed their contracts between 15 and 20), than I understand why Süle didn't accept the offer.

The relationship between him and the management has never been the best, mainly because Süle isn't the type of professional role model like Lewandowski.

After almost every summer or winter break Süle carried a few pounds too much and he admitted that he likes to drink a beer here and there.

His potential is even higher but he is already a very good defender. As i said its sad to see him go.

However I don't think you guys need him.
Maguire and Varane are both top CBs in my eyes. Süle wouldn't walk in your team.
 
BayernFan87 said:
Sad to see him go.

If the reports are true and we offered him less than 10 millions (Kimmich, Goretzka and Coman all recently renewed their contracts between 15 and 20), than I understand why Süle didn't accept the offer.

The relationship between him and the management has never been the best, mainly because Süle isn't the type of professional role model like Lewandowski.

After almost every summer or winter break Süle carried a few pounds too much and he admitted that he likes to drink a beer here and there.

His potential is even higher but he is already a very good defender. As i said its sad to see him go.

However I don't think you guys need him.
Maguire and Varane are both top CBs in my eyes. Süle wouldn't walk in your team.
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He’d fit right in then because they all hobble
 
That's a surprise after all his talk about the PL
 
This is an upset to the natural order of things, compare my astonishment to age of enlightenment scholars discovering the existence of carnivorous plants.
 
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Wish him good luck in Dortmund. As he moves as a free agent, it's a good deal for Dortmund. Albeit his history of two ACL injuries and not take professional lifestyle remains a risk.
Whether it's a good deal for Süle himself, I'm not that sure. Would be surprised, if Dortmund pays him significantly more than Bayern offered. Regarding to his chances of winning trophies at Dortmund, you just have to look at yesterday's match against Leverkusen. No more need to be said.

On a side note. In the last 3 years Dortmund snapped 2 central defenders from Bayern, Hummels and now Süle. The latter even for free.
That just be a huge blow for all the Bayern haters who love to claim Bayern is signing players to weaken their opposition.

Where is the outcry now that Dortmund is continuously weakening Bayern's defensive?
 
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