He was poor under Pellegrini as well.
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Nicolas Otamendi 2016/17
- Thread starter Adisa
- Start date
Fair enough, I still think he's a good centre-back though.
People were lambasting van Gaal and United for not making one of the most obvious signing in history of football... still remember those Otamendi vs Messi youtube videos 
When was Rojo any good to merit being above him?
He's a luxury CB, at best brilliant, but he's also rash and makes too many defensive errors. Same could be said every single Argentine defender in PL ever.
Would look good in a 3-man defense.
Awful again.....
Rojo is better.
We dodged a bullet there. Rojo has been significantly better.
Well for the last 4 games, yeah. Neither have had a great Premier League career in fairness.
Would Mourinho not have made Otamendi look better though?
He's a much better manager when it comes to defenders.
Plays like a shit Phil Jones.
I'm sure he would but I'm just really happy with Rojo's settling in and playing at a higher standard this year to where I wouldn't even entertain the thought. I don't even want Mourinho to touch the current lineup for fear it may unsettle the chemistry (barring of course Mkhitaryan). Bailly is so close to leaving for the ACON that it doesn't make sense to fiddle with what is currently working.
Genuinely don't know what his thinking was for the goal. Doesn't go to the man with the ball. Doesn't follow the run. Doesn't cut the passing lane. Just stands there. Then when Walcott is in behind he starts running to the left and honestly I've watched it a couple of times I don't know what he is thinking. He couldn't stop Walcott anyway but I can't comprehend what he was trying to do.
Glad we didn't get him. Not glad we didn't get KDB.
Glad we didn't get him. Not glad we didn't get KDB.
Rojo has far surpassed expectations and will likely keep his place over the Christmas period(Especially without the Dec 28 fixtures anymore)
But Rojo is an example of what a player can do with good coaching.I'm not a fan of Pep's defenses.
Rojo better, ffs, you guys will make anything up to try and feel superior. Otamendi is not world class nor is he a £30m defender but he's far from the clown he's made out here. What was so awful about him today? He's a good but somewhat rash CB who is easily our best defender atm. He's looked far less shaky without Stones last couple of games too. He's also cutting out the falling over when he's touched that plagued him last season as he knows now he won't get free's for it like Spain.
I'm actually fairly confident our centre backs will be ok, Stones looks like he needs to learn alot but Otamendi is fine, Kompany if he ever gets fit is good too and Kolarov is doing well there and learning as he goes, though he got caught out of position today and for all the talk about their first half bar the goal (which was KdB's fault) Arsenal created nothing against us whatsoever.
I'm actually fairly confident our centre backs will be ok, Stones looks like he needs to learn alot but Otamendi is fine, Kompany if he ever gets fit is good too and Kolarov is doing well there and learning as he goes, though he got caught out of position today and for all the talk about their first half bar the goal (which was KdB's fault) Arsenal created nothing against us whatsoever.
Have you watched Rojo for us lately? He's actually playing like one of the best CBs in the league (aside from the stupid two footed challenges). So yes, Rojo has been better.
The mauling at the Camp Nou earlier this season?Remember the man-marking lunacy against Barcelona?
Best CB's in the league. Red tinted glasses mate, he has picked up lately but he's far from one of the best CB's in the league even on current form. He's been decent and a huge improvement on what he was but thats a complete overstatement, its either feast or famine on here... no middle ground whatsoever. Pretty sure I read this about Smalling last year.
I am pretty sure you heard that last year as Smalling was the best defender in the side who had the best joint defensive record in England ladt year.
You throw around stats to prove why Stones isn't a bust so why would that stat be any different?
What stat, that United conceded a low amout of goals and Smalling was surrounded by about 6 defensive midfielders passing sideways. I haven't written Stones off but neither have I called him one of the best defenders in the league, after 13 games you guys wrote Stones off yet City had one of the best defensive records with Stones starting every game. By your logic he was one of the best defenders in the premiership then right??? It was plain to see he wasn't. And any stats I throw around were to defend our defensive set up and not one particular player, where you'll see I said we were leaking goals because of individual mistakes, usually trying to start attacks and retain the ball, not stop them.
And on current form most teams will hardly feel that facing Smalling and Rojo is like facing Rio and Vidic (who genuinely were two of the top defenders in the league). C'mon Bailly looks like he's on the verge of being the real deal but him aside (and he's unproven in the prem). Wasn't this place raving about DDG single handedly keeping you in the top 4 race last season, despite having Smalling in front and the season before
Smalling looked good in a team whose keeper dug them out ALOT and who like City had huge amounts of posession. The difference being LVG had it in his own half for the most part and Smalling was far more protected than any of City's CB's have been since Mancini.
I'm not saying Otamendi is better than Smalling or anything but he's certainly better than Rojo and anyone who says others is wearing those red tinted glasses. I'm saying they are good but not world class defenders. In fact of all the teams in England only Chelsea and Spurs can say they have top CB's (Spurs in particular) and the rest of us have alot of good and decent ones.
Even now calamity Stones and Otamendi have only conceded 3 goals more than top defenders in the league Smalling and Rojo and their respective partners.
No, it's not bias. Rojo was one of the most hated players in our squad, probably the most hated after Fellaini. Most of us wanted him gone this past summer, including me. But he has proven a lot of us wrong with his form alongside Jones. Personally, I was never fully convinced by Smalling and felt he was being overrated on here last season.
Does a couple of games improvement really warrant one of the leagues top defenders. Don't get me wrong here I'm not saying the guy is shite (like alot of guys here are about Otamendi), I'm saying he's a decent prem centreback, nothing more and nothing less. Otamendi I would call a good premiership centreback like Smalling (who I do rate, just not to the levels I'd rate Cahill, Spurs Belgians, Koscielny or even Luiz.)
Before your record fell apart, you were routinely on here posting Citys defensive stats and how they prove Redcafe are clueless and Stones is actually a key player for your defensive unit.
Now United's stats don't tell the whole story because of reason x or y.
Stats only matter when they suit huh?
Anyway Rojo's last 2 months have been better than anything Otamendi or Rojo himself have produced since coming to England.
Very impressive from the defensive regular for Argentina..Rojo.
That is a perfect display of why Pep sometimes gets it very wrong.
Stubbornly sticks to his ideals even when they might not work. Trying to go for to for with Barca at away.
And man marking Messi in the form he was that night was simply futile .
A bit off topic, but since we are talking about Otamendi and Rojo, I always felt that Argentina's supposed defensive weakness was overstated.
Otamendi is a good defender, Rojo is a good defender. Musacchio from Villarreal is very good. Mercado from Sevilla is good. That Mammana kid from Lyon is very promising. Mascherano and Zabaleta are a bit old but not yet finished IMO.
Granted they aren't big stars like the attacking players from that country (Messi, Aguero, Di Maria, Higuain), but there's a reason to why Argentina have conceded very few goals in the past 3 international tournaments.
Otamendi is a good defender, Rojo is a good defender. Musacchio from Villarreal is very good. Mercado from Sevilla is good. That Mammana kid from Lyon is very promising. Mascherano and Zabaleta are a bit old but not yet finished IMO.
Granted they aren't big stars like the attacking players from that country (Messi, Aguero, Di Maria, Higuain), but there's a reason to why Argentina have conceded very few goals in the past 3 international tournaments.
I stated Stones was part of a unit which was doing fine and it was. I stated our overall defensive record wasn't bad (which it still isn't) despite individual errors and I used stats to show that especially given our open style of play we weren't conceding too many. What I was pointing out via those stats are that in spite of all the individual mistakes we aren't that badly off with regards goals conceded and we're still on course to match or better the goals conceded you guys had from your last title win. All with appearantly two clowns playing centreback according to many on here. Our record hasn't fallen apart though it has taken a hit, we've still only conceded one goal more than Arsenal and the same as Liverpool with a game more played. Of the title challengers left only Chelsea and Spurs have vastly better defensive records and are clearly superior to us defensively and Spurs have arguably worse problems sticking the ball in the net and putting weak teams to bed than we do defending.
I also never said stats don't matter, they clearly do. I simply pointed out using your logic defence with least goals is the best than City with Stones as the only CB who played every game were doing well defensively which they were and by the logic of goals conceded = Smalling being one of the prems best defenders, than for 13 games this season so was Stones, which he clearly wasn't but he was part of a team who defended well as a unit and didn't give up much. We do make defensive errors, it comes with playing attacking football but I guarantee our goal conceded will not be over 45 come the end of the season.
I've never called anyone here clueless, I simply said Stones is not as bad as you guys make out and he's not just like Otamendi isn't either, nor is Smalling as good or like the original post I quoted here, Rojo isn't close to the premier leagues best central defenders regardless of his current form or if he's an Argentina regular or not, where he's played 3 times or so in the last 10, all at left back while Otamendi has played 9 in the centre shows Im not the only one to think he's better.
There is a strong argument for Otamendi being better whether you guys admit it or not. The myth on here that Otamendi has been terrible since arriving is just that.
They have a solid backline, its not Germany or Italy's but I'd agree, solid enough. The major problem is when one or two cb's are out they have to rely on Demichelis
It was an interesting game; most of Bayern's defensive players were injured and Barca were in scary form. I think he had to commit to either all-out defence or all-out attack, and he can't do all-out defence so he decided to push everyone forward and the match became a coin-flip.
What really cost them was the end to the match as they tired and Messi's level just kept getting higher and higher; they conceded goals 2 and 3.