NFL 2023

OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
Dom is the Eagles head of security for coaches and players, he's been on the sidelines for several years, and with the team for 25 years, I wouldn't consider him a random guy. Securing players and coaches on the sidelines, and elsewhere, is considered his job. The NFL can object to that, but they haven't up to now. He broke up a scuffle on the sidelines in a game last season, which there was no beef with. He separated the melee with Greenlaw and Smith which happened right infront of him on the sidelines, off the field. That should have been it, and if it was, nothing happens, no ejections. Somehow Greenlaw throwing a hand towards his face got them both ejected. Personally, I think both ejections were excessive. Greenlaw's hand looked like a misjudged point as he seems to retract it immediately, Dom stood between Greenlaw and his player and pointed back. It was handbags, just stick with the original penalty on the suplex tackle, and move on.

Brotherly Shove is the best play in football. But it's the final season of it for sure. Word is Goodell wants it gone. I wonder how they'll ban it. Are they gonna ban all QB sneaks, or just ones with tush pushing? If it's the latter, surely they'd have to re-ban all pushing of the ball carrier, which will have a seismic impact across the game.
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I don't see why any sports team would have who is effectively a bouncer on the sideline, getting involved with the players. Maybe it is common in American sport, but it is alien to me.

First time I'd seen the shove and they drove a long way into the end zone. Hard to see in the melee but the commentators seemed to suggest Hurts leads with his head, and this is therefore the biggest issue?
 
whitbyviking said:
I don't see why any sports team would have who is effectively a bouncer on the sideline, getting involved with the players. Maybe it is common in American sport, but it is alien to me.

First time I'd seen the shove and they drove a long way into the end zone. Hard to see in the melee but the commentators seemed to suggest Hurts leads with his head, and this is therefore the biggest issue?
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I actually have no idea if other teams in the NFL have their head of security on the sidelines, but I know the Eagles have for many years. I do wonder if he was ejected because the referees don't think he should be there at all, rather than what he did, which I don't think was much. Perhaps if a coach broke it up, it would just be Greenlaw getting ejected, or no ejections at all...

There's been a few injuries when other teams have run their version of the shoved QB sneak. That seems to be a factor in the call for banning it. I think the injuries that have been occurring haven't been head injuries though. I get the safety aspect of it, and if there's data to suggest it's a consistently dangerous play, then it should be considered. I don't get the remarks about it not being in the spirit of the game though. It's a game of inches, and the play is designed to get one yard. To me, it seems like it's entirely in the spirit of the game.

I do genuinely love seeing linebackers jump over the pile to try and stop it, and they just end up crowdsurfing on a pile of bodies.
 
Brock Purdy should be in the MVP conversation. 8 TD passes against the cowboys and eagles and one of the most accurate passers in the league. Yes he has weapons and a system but you still need execute on it and what we’ve seen in the past with the number of QBs the Niners have tried and tested, not just anyone can do it.

It does however look like the perfect year to give the MVP to a non-QB. What Tyreek Hill is doing in Miami is special and if he reaches 2000 yards it would be ridiculous not to give it to him.
 
Only an Eagles fan could defend a civilian non-player/coach personnel getting involved with players. DiSandro deserved to get kicked out, he had no business being involved. It wasn't a drunk rando in the parking lot or from the stands getting into it with a player. That's his job to sort out, not on-field stuff. Looking forward to the NFL delivering some swift "example" justice.
 
whitbyviking said:
Did not expect that from the Niners last night, what a result.

Few takeaways; Greenlaw was stupid, but there is no way there should be a "security guard" in his face like that. Football, as in Premier league, has a lot of problems with discipline, refereeing etc, but there is no way they'd let a random guy interfere with a player like that. Should be a massive fine for not controlling staff. Eagles wouldn't have had the first TD without that.

The "tush push" is basically a rugby maul. Don't the Eagles have a coach with a rugby background?

Deebo had a lot to lose in that match after all the talk. He definitely showed up.

That final hit by Demo Lenoir was an absolute beauty too, type of hit that makes you think twice about being open for a pass :lol:
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It was absolute domination but you could see it coming. Niners coming off 10 days rest, eagles with a hell of a schedule, it was the perfect moment to exact some revenge for last season. I’m certain they’ll meet again in the playoffs and based on the age of their QBs and core players, it could be a heated rivalry for several years.
 
Giggsy13 said:
Brock Purdy should be in the MVP conversation. 8 TD passes against the cowboys and eagles and one of the most accurate passers in the league. Yes he has weapons and a system but you still need execute on it and what we’ve seen in the past with the number of QBs the Niners have tried and tested, not just anyone can do it.

It does however look like the perfect year to give the MVP to a non-QB. What Tyreek Hill is doing in Miami is special and if he reaches 2000 yards it would be ridiculous not to give it to him.
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No it wouldn't, most valuable player should always be a QB. Tua is a lot more important for Miami than Hill is. He missed 4 games last season with his concussion issues + half the game he got concussed in, and they were 1-4 in those games.

There's a difference between best and most valuable player but the latter should always be a QB. JJ Watt also confirmed that once again last weekend on air when asked about his 2014 season.
 
Giggsy13 said:
Brock Purdy should be in the MVP conversation. 8 TD passes against the cowboys and eagles and one of the most accurate passers in the league. Yes he has weapons and a system but you still need execute on it and what we’ve seen in the past with the number of QBs the Niners have tried and tested, not just anyone can do it.

It does however look like the perfect year to give the MVP to a non-QB. What Tyreek Hill is doing in Miami is special and if he reaches 2000 yards it would be ridiculous not to give it to him.
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Good shouts. The only thing I have with a receiver potentially winning is he relies on the QB to make the throws. Hill certainly should be in the mix though but Tua probably as well in that case. I think Hill has a better shot at OPOY than MVP.
 
MrMarcello said:
Only an Eagles fan could defend a civilian non-staff personnel getting involved with players. DiSandro deserved to get kicked out, he had no business being involved. It wasn't a drunk rando in the parking lot or from the stands getting into it with a player. That's his job to sort out, not on-field stuff. Looking forward to the NFL delivering some swift "example" justice.
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I'm defending it because he's done before, last season, when it occurred right in front of him on the Eagles sideline, and there was no beef then because both players walked away and no hands were thrown. There's only beef now because it led to an ejection.

He's employed to provide security to coaches and players on the sidelines, and elsewhere. He broke up a scuffle within the area he's employed to provide security, which happened right infront of him. He didn't hit anyone with a steel chair. The pearl clutching over it is bizarre.
 
RobinLFC said:
No it wouldn't, most valuable player should always be a QB. Tua is a lot more important for Miami than Hill is. He missed 4 games last season with his concussion issues + half the game he got concussed in, and they were 1-4 in those games.

There's a difference between best and most valuable player but the latter should always be a QB. JJ Watt also confirmed that once again last weekend on air when asked about his 2014 season.
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Always giving it to a QB on one of the best teams is boring. If you’re going to be that literal about the award, then just give it to the most compensated player.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
Always giving it to a QB on one of the best teams is boring. If you’re going to be that literal about the award, then just give it to the most compensated player.
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I kinda agree but it's also most true to the name of the award, and we've got OPOY to usually give to another offensive player who's had a stellar season (Jefferson last season, Hill is all but a certainty for this season imo).

Purdy, Tua, Lamar and Lawrence are frontrunners right now imo. Eagles just haven't been convincing enough in some wins for Hurts to be considered unless they win out (same for Lawrence, Jags get #1 seed if they win out).
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
I'm defending it because he's done before, last season, when it occurred right in front of him on the Eagles sideline, and there was no beef then because both players walked away and no hands were thrown. There's only beef now because it led to an ejection.

He's employed to provide security to coaches and players on the sidelines, and elsewhere. He broke up a scuffle within the area he's employed to provide security, which happened right infront of him. He didn't hit anyone with a steel chair. The pearl clutching over it is bizarre.
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He's employed to provide security against random events not to get involved with opposition football players during the game. But gotta defend yer guy, some fat feck legend apparently, I get it. It's a Philly thing I guess.
 
MrMarcello said:
He's employed to provide security against random events not to get involved with opposition football players during the game. But gotta defend yer guy, some fat feck legend apparently, I get it. It's a Philly thing I guess.
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Man, you sound pretty angry about something so innocuous. I'm not defending "my" guy. I'm defending what happened. I wouldn't care it it happened in reverse with 49ers staff, or if it happened to any other team in the league.

If the NFL had a problem with his sideline presence and what the team consider his remit to be, they should have raised it when he separated two players on the Eagles sideline away at the Commanders last year when they scuffled right infront of him. This particular scuffle also happened right by his feet. He stepped between two players to de-escalate. It'd be bizarre for a security guard to step away and NOT defend his colleague on his sideline in that situation. If he charges over to it from a distance and gets involved, yeah, that's fecked. But he didn't.
 
I would love to see how the NFL plan to ban the tush push. I mean in the chiefs game yesterday there was a running play where Pacheco gets stopped and gets pushed forward at least 5 yards by his teammates. So wonder if they will ban any pushing forward at all on any play then ?
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
I would love to see how the NFL plan to ban the tush push. I mean in the chiefs game yesterday there was a running play where Pacheco gets stopped and gets pushed forward at least 5 yards by his teammates. So wonder if they will ban any pushing forward at all on any play then ?
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Perhaps they'll ban pushing from behind on the player who is under center, QB or otherwise? That bans the shoved QB sneak without banning ball carriers being bundled of the line to gain/goal line.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
I would love to see how the NFL plan to ban the tush push. I mean in the chiefs game yesterday there was a running play where Pacheco gets stopped and gets pushed forward at least 5 yards by his teammates. So wonder if they will ban any pushing forward at all on any play then ?
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The obvious difference is that one is a designed play, one occurs ad hoc.
 
RobinLFC said:
No it wouldn't, most valuable player should always be a QB. Tua is a lot more important for Miami than Hill is. He missed 4 games last season with his concussion issues + half the game he got concussed in, and they were 1-4 in those games.

There's a difference between best and most valuable player but the latter should always be a QB. JJ Watt also confirmed that once again last weekend on air when asked about his 2014 season.
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It shouldn’t always be a QB and history shows the league will buck the trend if a skill player has a special or record breaking season. More recently and in this century: Peterson when he broke 2000 yards; Tomlinson over 2000 combined yards; Alexander breaking the TD record. There are more examples in the 80s and 90s of LT, Sanders and Davis. There was a period when a RB won 3 out of 4 years in the late 90s. No QB is really having a standout season, so this might be the right season to give it to another skill position.

I think many underestimate the impact of Hill. Where would the chiefs be if they still had him? Clear SB favourites. Mahomes is special but we’re seeing that without him and an aging Kelce, along with a weak WR core, he’s not putting up the numbers he would previously. Where would Tua be without him? We have that answer, on the trade block previously for Watson. Tua is having a great season because of Hill and I would garner to guess he would not be as effective if Waddle was his number 1 target.

Hill is arguably the 3rd or 4th best WR I’ve ever seen, behind Rice and Moss and on par or just behind Fitzgerald. He can turn a 10 yard play into 90 yard touchdown with his speed and movement. He is special. If he reaches 2000 yards receiving, which he is on pace to do, the NFL may make him the first WR to win the award. Currently +2500 on bet365, worth a bet.
 
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Giggsy13 said:
I think many underestimate the impact of Hill. Where would the chiefs be if they still had him? Clear SB favourites. Mahomes is special but we’re seeing that without him and an aging Kelce, along with a weak WR core, he’s not putting up the numbers he would previously. Where would Tua be without him? We have that answer, on the trade block previously for Watson. Tua is having a great season because of Hill and I would garner to guess he would not be as effective if Waddle was his number 1 target.
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Lots of speculation in here. Could just as easily that Tua's eruption is down to McDaniel arriving instead of Hill. The trade talks were during a time when their HC was actively encouraged to lose them games.

Tua is having a great season because of a multitude of reasons and Hill is just one of them. There's an outside chance he'll win MVP, but he shouldn't. Hill in four games without Tua last season:
7-47-0
12-177-0
4-55-0
2-23-0

He's a special player who's thriving in the right offensive environment such as he did in Kansas City but he's not the most valuable thing to their offense, no WR is. And I'm not saying he can't win MVP, just saying in my opinion he shouldn't. Could just as well give it to Micah Parsons or TJ Watt if we're going down that route.
 
RobinLFC said:
Lots of speculation in here. Could just as easily that Tua's eruption is down to McDaniel arriving instead of Hill. The trade talks were during a time when their HC was actively encouraged to lose them games.

Tua is having a great season because of a multitude of reasons and Hill is just one of them. There's an outside chance he'll win MVP, but he shouldn't. Hill in four games without Tua last season:
7-47-0
12-177-0
4-55-0
2-23-0

He's a special player who's thriving in the right offensive environment such as he did in Kansas City but he's not the most valuable thing to their offense, no WR is. And I'm not saying he can't win MVP, just saying in my opinion he shouldn't. Could just as well give it to Micah Parsons or TJ Watt if we're going down that route.
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It’s not speculation at all. Wherever Tyreek Hill has gone he has had a substantial impact. Of course scheme and coaching matters but to dismiss his numbers as being exclusively as a result of that completely undermines his hall of fame talent. The dolphins would not be a Super Bowl contender without Hill, Tua does not have the level of talent like Mahomes to carry a team. I can also guarantee that the chiefs wish they still had him, as he would be difference in raising them to SB favourites.
 
Most Valuable will always be won by a QB.

They should have a positionless 'best overall player' award. Tyreek is clearly it this season, same for JJ Watt a few years back.
 
altodevil said:
Most Valuable will always be won by a QB.

They should have a positionless 'best overall player' award. Tyreek is clearly it this season, same for JJ Watt a few years back.
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In this case what’s the point and what’s the difference? Just make one “best QB” and “best player”? What’s stopping the MVP “the QB has to win” narrative bleeding into the “best overall player”?
 
swooshboy said:
I still think CMC should be in with a shout of MVP.
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He could end up scoring at least one TD in every game except one, both running and receiving mixed in, huge yardage and a game winner in his own right. To think he was graded a C- trade at the time by certain talking heads. Has to be between him and Hill for OPOY this year.
 
Think the whole point of the OPOY and DPOY awards is to reflect the best player on either side of the ball.

It’s hard to say the MVP shouldn’t be a QB. Their impact on the game is significant that they’re inherently the most valuable. Not saying I agree with the principle but it is what it is and it makes sense.
 
Charlie Foley said:
In this case what’s the point and what’s the difference? Just make one “best QB” and “best player”? What’s stopping the MVP “the QB has to win” narrative bleeding into the “best overall player”?
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Ideally you'd only let people who have brains have a vote.
 
That guy must have it, else I do not understand. Was he nuts at the Steelers? Other than at the end I can’t recall it but maybe I wasn’t paying attention.

Sad though that one of my clear memories of him was the brutal hit he took, I think from that cnut Burfict?
 
rpitroda said:
That guy must have it, else I do not understand. Was he nuts at the Steelers? Other than at the end I can’t recall it but maybe I wasn’t paying attention.

Sad though that one of my clear memories of him was the brutal hit he took, I think from that cnut Burfict?
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That’s the one. A POS that deserves every bad thing that happens to him
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
Perhaps they'll ban pushing from behind on the player who is under center, QB or otherwise? That bans the shoved QB sneak without banning ball carriers being bundled of the line to gain/goal line.
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It was illegal to push an offense player forward until 2005, though I don't recall it being enforced much but also don't recall it happening often. Made no sense to remove that rule but probably to give more offensive advantages at the time. The NCAA also had that rule but when Bush pushed Leinart forward against ND the refs conveniently kept quiet.

I figure the easiest way out is to ban pushing the offensive player forward. Another option would be that the offensive team must indicate to the ref they will do this sort of push play, better yet let's call it what it is - a scrum. The defense then can sub in a package to add more size, like 2-4 extra DL+OL, but the offense is not allowed to 1) change the indicated play call without calling a timeout and defense is able to also sub out when play resumes, and 2) not allowed to run outside the tackles nor attempt an RPO. Because in doing so the defense is totally left 100% vulnerable for what most would say is a bush league trick play in that scenario.
 
Giggsy13 said:
It’s not speculation at all. Wherever Tyreek Hill has gone he has had a substantial impact. Of course scheme and coaching matters but to dismiss his numbers as being exclusively as a result of that completely undermines his hall of fame talent. The dolphins would not be a Super Bowl contender without Hill, Tua does not have the level of talent like Mahomes to carry a team. I can also guarantee that the chiefs wish they still had him, as he would be difference in raising them to SB favourites.
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I don't think I dismissed his numbers anywhere. And your argument is besides the point we're arguing - the Niners offense wouldn't be the same without CMC, Boys wouldn't be the same without Lamb, ... That doesn't make them MVP candidates.

Now replace Lamar with Tyler Huntley or Tua with Mike White and you have two teams likely out of the playoff picture or barely in the hunt. That's what valuable means to me. Hill will win OPOY and rightfully so. Let's just agree to disagree on the MVP argument then.
 
The o/u for TNF this week is... 30.5 total points :boring: Lowest NFL opening total in 18 years apparently.
 
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