Neymar

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Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
At no point, on Earth, has he ever been the second best player on the world over the last 8 years.
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He really has. His underrating is criminal. For several bouts of 3 month periods at PSG he’s been the best player in the world. He outperformed Messi and Mbappe for periods. It could be suggested that other defenders or midfielders were ‘better’. But he’s been at levels that only Messi, Ronaldo and Mbappe have hit in that time.

He’s really properly exceptional.

I’d agree with you if we’re talking about whole seasons, mind. He’s not had a single full season where he’s been the second best player in the world. Perhaps there was the year at Barcelona when he was arguably better than Messi (and this everyone else), but there’s no concensus there and I’d struggle to argue it authentically.
 
antk said:
Have you watched actual football in the last 8 years? This is a mental opinion.
Neymar has been arguably the best or second best player in the world for multiple stints during his time in Europe.

There are no guarantees he'll ever be fit for a full season of high-level football again, but that's an entirely different story.
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What have you been smoking?
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Good Lord.

Footballers are always injured. Always. Without exception. Muscle pains are a part of sport.

No footballer is going to go to jail for anything relating to an injury.

I mean… have all of my internet points for providing an explanation from fantasy land, but we both know it’s not happening in our actual reality.
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Your post reads like it has no link to the post you quoted.

From a legal standpoint faking injuries, getting paid while being absent is fraud, the law doesn't state that if it's Football it doesn't count. And the reason it's unlikely to happen in Football is because it's unlikely that a club files a complaint, an insurer could though.

As for Neymar we are not talking about muscle pains but broken and ligament damages which have led to lengthy and costly absences.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
He really has. His underrating is criminal. For several bouts of 3 month periods at PSG he’s been the best player in the world. He outperformed Messi and Mbappe for periods. It could be suggested that other defenders or midfielders were ‘better’. But he’s been at levels that only Messi, Ronaldo and Mbappe have hit in that time.

He’s really properly exceptional.

I’d agree with you if we’re talking about whole seasons, mind. He’s not had a single full season where he’s been the second best player in the world. Perhaps there was the year at Barcelona when he was arguably better than Messi (and this everyone else), but there’s no concensus there and I’d struggle to argue it authentically.
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Oh yeah there is no doubt he's a sensational player and if we had a City like squad and wanted to sprinkle it with magic then totally could understand it but that's not the case
 
croadyman said:
Oh yeah there is no doubt he's a sensational player and if we had a City like squad and wanted to sprinkle it with magic then totally could understand it but that's not the case
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Oh I agree. I’d love him at the club, because I love football more than I love results.

I’d take an FA Cup and a CL Quarter final over no trophies and a CL Final, as an easy example.

Modern fans are mad. All of the type that would have hated the signing of Cantona. Just sign talented players that excite the fans.

No, I wouldn’t bin off progress at the altar of entertainment… but I’d take him on a sensible contract and have him make 25 appearances in a 55+ game season. He’s special and I’d love to have him light up Old Trafford.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Oh I agree. I’d love him at the club, because I love football more than I love results.

I’d take an FA Cup and a CL Quarter final over no trophies and a CL Final, as an easy example.

Modern fans are mad. All of the type that would have hated the signing of Cantona. Just sign talented players that excite the fans.

No, I wouldn’t bin off progress at the altar of entertainment… but I’d take him on a sensible contract and have him make 25 appearances in a 55+ game season. He’s special and I’d love to have him light up Old Trafford.
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What would you define as sensible contract and transfer fee just out of interest
 
RedRonaldo said:
What have you been smoking?
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He has been amongst the very very best in the world during his time in Europe. The 2 things that have stopped him are injuries and the idiotic decision to join the circus that is PSG in his prime.

Footballer is beyond just scoring goals and it is not a requirement that to be the best you have to score 50 goals in a season. But obviously that is your metric.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
He really has. His underrating is criminal. For several bouts of 3 month periods at PSG he’s been the best player in the world. He outperformed Messi and Mbappe for periods. It could be suggested that other defenders or midfielders were ‘better’. But he’s been at levels that only Messi, Ronaldo and Mbappe have hit in that time.

He’s really properly exceptional.

I’d agree with you if we’re talking about whole seasons, mind. He’s not had a single full season where he’s been the second best player in the world. Perhaps there was the year at Barcelona when he was arguably better than Messi (and this everyone else), but there’s no concensus there and I’d struggle to argue it authentically.
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Sorry, at no point in the last twenty years has a player in Ligue Un, been the best player in the world.

Hope I'm clear.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Sorry, at no point in the last twenty years has a player in Ligue Un, been the best player in the world.

Hope I'm clear.
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So you’d not have Mbappe as the best player in the world? Be that this year or any of last two? Just… out of the question? Because that’s properly mad.

Also, Neymar was easily the best or second best player in the world for various chunks of time. Consistency has always been the problem. He outshone Messi at Barcelona during some of Messi’s quieter periods.

Not quarreling, it’s all very subjective. But Messi is still the best player in the world right now and he’s playing there.
 
croadyman said:
What would you define as sensible contract and transfer fee just out of interest
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Anything that doesn’t break our wage structure. I’d heavily weight appearance fees. £100k a match instead of the standard £10k. Base salary of £200k maybe.

Zero or nominal fee though.

Having him on board for 24 months as Garnacho comes of age, Rashford peaks, perhaps Antony and Sancho get it together.

The guy is one of the best footballers I’ve ever seen. Indulge him. He’s so much better than anyone on the planet inbus position. That we’re even debating having him here is mental. He’s 31. As long as the nature of his contract is a little humbling and encourages work, I’d take him.
 
mshnsh said:
He has been amongst the very very best in the world during his time in Europe. The 2 things that have stopped him are injuries and the idiotic decision to join the circus that is PSG in his prime.

Footballer is beyond just scoring goals and it is not a requirement that to be the best you have to score 50 goals in a season. But obviously that is your metric.
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Well I don't disagree he has been amongst the very best in the game, its still crazy to suggest he has been "the best or 2nd best player in the world" during multiple stints in Europe, especially during the peak era of Messi and Ronaldo. Thats just isn't true.

At best he has been the 3rd best player in the world for a few good years, behind Messi and Ronaldo. At worst, during his inconsistent period with many injuries in PSG, he probably wasn't even among the top 5-10 player in the world.

In terms of his Ballon D'or ranking over the past decade:

2011: 10th
2012: 13th
2013: 5th
2014: 7th
2015: 3rd
2016: 5th
2017: 3rd
2018: 12th
2019: outside top 30
2021: 16th
2022: outside top 30

From 2013 to 2017, he was indeed widely regarded among the very best, but not quite "the best or 2nd best player in the world".
From 2018 onwards, he wasn't even regarded among top 10 player in the world.

Maybe he is among the best or 2nd best "dribbler" in the game, but that's about it. Best dribbler doesn't always equal best player.
 
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UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Anything that doesn’t break our wage structure. I’d heavily weight appearance fees. £100k a match instead of the standard £10k. Base salary of £200k maybe.

Zero or nominal fee though.

Having him on board for 24 months as Garnacho comes of age, Rashford peaks, perhaps Antony and Sancho get it together.

The guy is one of the best footballers I’ve ever seen. Indulge him. He’s so much better than anyone on the planet inbus position. That we’re even debating having him here is mental. He’s 31. As long as the nature of his contract is a little humbling and encourages work, I’d take him.
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You are dreaming to hope for nominal fee
 
croadyman said:
You are dreaming to hope for nominal fee
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Yeah probably. But I don’t see a bidding war. He’s too expensive, surplus to requirements and not fit enough.

Who would pay even £50m? Newcastle, Chelsea, United… Juventus maybe. I can’t see anyone else that would pay more, wanting him. There won’t be a bidding war.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
So you’d not have Mbappe as the best player in the world? Be that this year or any of last two? Just… out of the question? Because that’s properly mad.

Also, Neymar was easily the best or second best player in the world for various chunks of time. Consistency has always been the problem. He outshone Messi at Barcelona during some of Messi’s quieter periods.

Not quarreling, it’s all very subjective. But Messi is still the best player in the world right now and he’s playing there.
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No, at no point would I say Mbappe has been the best player in the world.
 
Plant0x84 said:
The prospect of signing him is truly horrifying.
Sincerely hoping the club have learned the lessons of Pogba, Sanchez and Di Maria.
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These players have nothing in common and Pogba has been one of the most successful players at United post Ferguson.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
No, at no point would I say Mbappe has been the best player in the world.
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Fair go. I’d take him as the best player right now, certainly in the last 12 months and definitely across the last two years.

I’d accept Messi over him on sentiment. But their world cups were comparable and Mbappe was the better club player in that time.

Who would you have as the best performing player this past 12-24 months? Out of interest.
 
Plant0x84 said:
That’s not saying much.
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It says that United has been a shit show as an organisation for over a decade and that trying to blame it on individual players - especially when they don’t have much in common - is nonsensical. Even more so, when one of them is one of the few that actually did relatively well here, all things considered.
 
Cassidy said:
“Especially because of the different circumstances, like the intensity of the games here.

”I’m not trying to underestimate La Liga, but the games here are much more difficult, there’s a higher number of transitions. In Spain, they usually prefer tiki-taka football as they call it there. Here there are more transitions, more attacking moves.

”Each league has its own qualities and traits. I know each has its own traits and I respect both [leagues]. But the most important thing is for players to adapt as quickly as possible.”

https://strettynews.com/2023/02/24/...e-matches-are-more-difficult-than-in-la-liga/

Is Casemiro ignorant and small minded?
Not saying Neymar isn't suited to the PL mind you, but if someone has that opinion I wouldn't call it small-minded because the intensity of the PL is different
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First, Casemiro has joined an EPL team, do you think he's an objective opinion?

And more importantly, Casemiro says the league has more transitions which makes it more difficult for him, not that Neymar (one of the best players of his generation) couldn't cut it in the EPL. Aren't you guys always criticizing the Bundesliga because every team tries to press and leaves so much space inbehind? Does that mean the Bundesliga is more difficult because there are more transitions? :)

redcucumber said:
I'm finding this conversation a bit odd so I'm hesitantly joining in - but surely it goes without saying that players themselves will have a lot of say in the process of their own recovery..? If a player says they don't yet feel ready to join in first team training, it doesn't matter what the club's doctors say wrt to the nature of the injury itself. Players definitely have a degree of input throughout the phases of rehabilitation, and it goes without saying that a player like Neymar will have more than most. The notion that he'd have to be bribing doctors to extend his recovery period is absurd (I'm not saying he has been misleading officials to get more time off but undoubtedly it goes on in football).
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But we're not talking about a minor muscle injury or something like that but broken bones.
 
Zehner said:
First, Casemiro has joined an EPL team, do you think he's an objective opinion?

And more importantly, Casemiro says the league has more transitions which makes it more difficult for him, not that Neymar (one of the best players of his generation) couldn't cut it in the EPL. Aren't you guys always criticizing the Bundesliga because every team tries to press and leaves so much space inbehind? Does that mean the Bundesliga is more difficult because there are more transitions? :)
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I think his opinion gives far greater insight than your own, and he is also not the only player to say the same thing (including players who have left the PL to go to La liga)

Also if you read my post I clearly said I'm not saying Neymar is not suited to the PL, but obviously pointing out that the intensity of the league is a factor, which you seemed to dismiss out of hand.

Zehner said:
What's different about about EPL football that so many great players aren't suited to it? Do they play with square balls? Round pitches? Smaller goals?
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Casemiro clearly telling you what's different about the EPL, I'm sure he knows better than yourself
 
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Cassidy said:
“Especially because of the different circumstances, like the intensity of the games here.

”I’m not trying to underestimate La Liga, but the games here are much more difficult, there’s a higher number of transitions. In Spain, they usually prefer tiki-taka football as they call it there. Here there are more transitions, more attacking moves.

”Each league has its own qualities and traits. I know each has its own traits and I respect both [leagues]. But the most important thing is for players to adapt as quickly as possible.”

https://strettynews.com/2023/02/24/...e-matches-are-more-difficult-than-in-la-liga/

Is Casemiro ignorant and small minded?
Not saying Neymar isn't suited to the PL mind you, but if someone has that opinion I wouldn't call it small-minded because the intensity of the PL is different
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I dunno man. I’m becoming a Neymar Stan on this thread and I’ve found him annoying and criticised him in years gone by.

But even under Fergie I looked at all signings through a lens of making football fun to watch. I wanted Le Tissier and Collymore and Ronaldinho and (to a lesser extent Hazard) because they were exciting. Yeah I’ve always wanted us to challenge, but I’ve always wanted excitement along the way.

Neymar would be the first name on the team sheet, anytime he was fit. He’s capable of things that hardly anyone is. In the last 20 years, you’ve probably got Messi, early Ronaldo, Hazard, Zidane, Ronaldinho, and maybe Henry. Genuine magic players that make everything look like fun.

He’s 31. Buy Kane to score goals, add Neymar for fun and accept you won’t see him play more than 30 games a season. Challenge for everything until March and I honestly don’t care if we’ve only got another League Cup to show for it.

People are acting like he’s washed up. He’d land here with a bunch of Portuguese speakers to help him, he’d excite the City, fill the coffers of a few nightclubs and generally just be a value add. Yeah he’d struggle to adapt, but he’d embarrass most of the back lines in this league.
 
I don’t think it’ll work. Fantastic player when he’s switched on - but I have a feeling he’d be kick to bits in the Premier League - and with his reputation, he’s not going to get any joy from the refs.
 
Zehner said:
But we're not talking about a minor muscle injury or something like that but broken bones.
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It doesn't matter. Players have agency in their rehabilitation. There is a significant psychological element when dealing with injuries.
 
redcucumber said:
It doesn't matter. Players have agency in their rehabilitation. There is a significant psychological element when dealing with injuries.
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Neymar was diagnosed with a broken ankle. What has this to do with his rehabilitation?
 
So people wonder why we were suspicious about Qatari investment. In a simple transfer idea or two (mbappe, Neymar) destroying the wage structure and signing a 31 year old mega star with injury issues. That being said Mbappe is clearly world class, but is the idea to turn us into Citeh type of signings with mega contracts and flashy signings ?
 
Stadjer said:
If Neymar would come to the Premier League he would make the defenders look like clowns... that is until they hack him down and he will be out injured. There are a lot of strong, fast and very athletic defenders in the French league and they can only stop Neymar by hacking him down. Neymar would not struggle at all in the Premier League when it purely comes to footballing ability.
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The league is a lot more physical than he's used to.

Neymar would be an awful signing.
 
Zehner said:
Neymar was diagnosed with a broken ankle. What has this to do with his rehabilitation?
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Because the players will have input as to when they feel ready to take to the field again? It's really not that complicated.
 
redcucumber said:
Because the players will have input as to when they feel ready to take to the field again? It's really not that complicated.
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Yeah a player could basically pretend he has pain and can't play and maybe this leads to the medical team being helpless since they can't prove that the player is not injured, maybe don't even suspect it.

But Neymar was always diagnosed with an injury. The medical team identified a broken bone, so if you assume that he faked this injury, then the doctors backed him.
 
I swear some people here think the Premier League is a different sport the way they talk about it.

Surely Neymar isn't staying at PSG with those fans hounding his home?

He used to be extremely durable, but he's constantly injured at PSG. Not sure where he'd go if he wants to leave.
 
Silas said:
Has he ever played as a false 9 before?
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Tuchel used him there at times for PSG. Tata also used him there for Barcelona a few games when Messi was out.

He's brilliant there. To be honest, he's brilliant anywhere. Besides last season(which seems like an anomaly), he's still a top player.

His problem is that he can't stay fit to save his life lately. And you wonder if his latest operation might zap some more pace from him.
 
I so hope that there is absolutely no chance that he joins United.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Tuchel used him there at times for PSG. Tata also used him there for Barcelona a few games when Messi was out.

He's brilliant there. To be honest, he's brilliant anywhere. Besides last season(which seems like an anomaly), he's still a top player.

His problem is that he can't stay fit to save his life lately. And you wonder if his latest operation might zap some more pace from him.
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Even early on this season when he was playing out of his mind, the decrease in his general pace was already very apparent. He has all the tools to adapt but he can't get past players like before.

Pretty sure his best position nowadays would be as a Griezmann-type false 9/attacking midfielder/10 hybrid. It's also where he's had his most impressive performances these last few years (the Bayern-PSG 2021 tie comes to mind).
 
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