Kaos
Full Member
What do we reckon then?
Keir Starmer currently the bookie’s favourite, I’m inclined to agree.
Keir Starmer currently the bookie’s favourite, I’m inclined to agree.
Momentum crew hate her.Give it to Jess Phillips.
(This won't happen, but her and Starmer are a couple of the only politicians I can stand.
The media would destroy her. A former single mother and pregnant teenager, the Daily Mail will love that.I think it will be Keir Starmer, I'd probably throw Rebecca Long Bailey and Angela Rayner too.
The media would destroy her. A former single mother and pregnant teenager, the Daily Mail will love that.
Kier Starmer. Has enough credibility to carry both sides of the party.
Momentum crew hate her.
Against Labour? You meant to say against the Greens, Lib Dems and other small parties? Please don't mistake incompetence with a rigged system. Labour's been reaping the benefits of this system for the entire last century along with the Tories.The system is gamed against Labour [...]
Even better, Jess Phillips for me.
If momentum hate Phillips, then her. Because whoever they pick is likely to be another inept puppet.
As much as I like his approach, Starmer would be a mistake. London MP, remain campainer, grammar school, Oxford University (I know, I know, 11-plus, post grad at Oxford, son of proper working class parents).
I kinda think Jess Phillips would be a good choice, as someone not tied to the current leader, and not really a big voice on either side of the brexit debate. Also, her experience before politics would be a good basis from which to argue for Labour priorities on protecting the vulnerable. She'll never get it though.
I don’t understand this logic either. I get the frustrations people have with momentum, but isolating what’s essentially the most mobilised and active support base is hardly a step forward. No one is suggesting giving it to Richard Burgon, last I checked Starmer has a 66% approval rate amongst grassroots activists.
Well considering the millions of working class Labour types were willing to lend their vote to a silver spooned Etonian toff, I really don’t see this being an issue. If anything he‘s a more genuine poster child for meritocracy than any Tory can claim to be.As much as I like his approach, Starmer would be a mistake. London MP, remain campainer, grammar school, Oxford University (I know, I know, 11-plus, post grad at Oxford, son of proper working class parents).
Regardless of what you think of their politics, Momentum are the reason we’ve seen record numbers of people, young or otherwise join Labour. Do you not think it’s best to keep them on board while creating a movement with broad appeal instead of isolating them and then wondering why the youth turnout regresses to its usual levels of apathy.Because Momentum is an extension of the politics that has lost this election. The reason it exists is as a proponent of (comparatively) far left policies. A step forward for the Labour party now is a step back. Back to New Labour.
Momentum are mobilised, yeah, but maybe you should ask @Ultimate Grib how much that mobilisation helped in this election.
Against Labour? You meant to say against the Greens, Lib Dems and other small parties? Please don't mistake incompetence with a rigged system. Labour's been reaping the benefits of this system for the entire last century along with the Tories.
But in this case, Labour just screwed up their massive electoral system design flaw advantage over other parties on the left and center, by putting the perfect incompetent boogieman in charge. I mean, all the tabloids had to do was bring up his pro-Soviet period to scare the living daylights out of every moderate in the country. And then he did the rest with lacking leadership, pushing through his hidden agenda against the democratic party processes, tried to strongarm potential allied parties instead of coordinating with them (social skills and solidarity my arse) and basically pushed all the wrong buttons. And not just in the last three years, but for the last decades, as his voting record always disagreed with the majority of Labour MPs, it was impossible for him to pretend he represented the "actual" Labour voter.
Well considering the millions of working class Labour types were willing to lend their vote to a silver spooned Etonian toff, I really don’t see this being an issue. If anything he‘s a more genuine poster child for meritocracy than any Tory can claim to be.
I also don’t think him historically being a remainer will work against him in the future. Pretty much the entire country has conceded to Brexit happening and I’d expect the Tories make a mess of it in the next 5 years anyway.
I don’t understand this logic either. I get the frustrations people have with momentum, but isolating what’s essentially the most mobilised and active support base is hardly a step forward. No one is suggesting giving it to Richard Burgon, last I checked Starmer has a 66% approval rate amongst grassroots activists.
It didn't seem to bother them in 1997.They'll vote for Johnson because at least it appears honest for a posh moron to be leader of the Conservative party. That's what the Conservatives are. The Labour leader is held to a different standard - the feeling that some posh boys from their London bubble are playing at socialism, patronising the working class, is a real problem for Labour.
I'm not suggesting using their policies as the ideological pillars to build on for Labour going forward. I'm questioning the wisdom of attempting to completely isolate and washing your hands off them. The party should align itself as a centre left broad church that's able to garner the loyalty of their grassroots while tempting the moderate ground or those otherwise disillusioned by the Tory vision. It makes more sense to keep the record numbers of young voters engaged and have them knock on doors and canvas en masse, especially as a buffer to the increasingly compromised pro-Tory media.The best active and mobilised support base?
They've called everything wrong and have lost every election. If there's anything to not understand, it's this culture of staying in place. They were humiliated last night. That's not a base to build upon, it's absolutely baffling people refuse to see that.
Now taking their policies and putting them in the hands of people who will use them properly and get us out of this culture of keeping to their own and putting their acolytes in the top position, now that's ideal. A pipe dream I guess though.
But Labour cannot stand still, not after that. They stick with Momentum amd put another crony in charge and we are having this same debate in 5 years 100%
As much as I hate to say it, this country is no where near ready to willingly accept a Muslim PM.I think Sadiq Khan would be a good option, but he's got no chance.
I'm not suggesting using their policies as the ideological pillars to build on for Labour going forward. I'm questioning the wisdom of attempting to completely isolate and washing your hands off them. The party should align itself as a centre left broad church that's able to garner the loyalty of their grassroots while tempting the moderate ground or those otherwise disillusioned by the Tory vision. It makes more sense to keep the record numbers of young voters engaged and have them knock on doors and canvas en masse, especially as a buffer to the increasingly compromised pro-Tory media.
The most electable is probably Dan Jarvis. Former British Army Officer. Parachute Regiment. MBE. Served in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq. Former Mayor of Sheffield. MP for Barnsley. Lost his first wife to cancer.
No idea if he's any good or not. And he has no chance being a centrist and member of Labour Friends of Israel.
The most electable is probably Dan Jarvis. Former British Army Officer. Parachute Regiment. MBE. Served in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq. Former Mayor of Sheffield. MP for Barnsley. 47 years old. Lost his first wife to cancer. Born in Nottingham. Went to comprehensive school.
No idea if he's any good or not. And he has no chance with the current Labour membership, being a centrist and member of Labour Friends of Israel.
No, I'm suggesting that shifting all the way to the other end of the spectrum is hardly going to galvanise young voters. I'd trust Starmer in being able to command a broad appeal, Jess Phillips not so much.Do you think they'll keep that anyway? And why are you suggesting that someone completely new and fresh will not engage in the youth anyway?
There's a lot of pissed off canvassers, one on here too, who were literally lead up the wrong garden path. They have proven themselves inept time and again.
As I said before, we get another momentum mouth piece, we get the same conversation in 5 years.
What about David Lammy?
Or are we not ready?
Think he would be a disaster. I like him in some ways, but he's an obvious Londoner who won't connect with the rest of the country.What about David Lammy?
Or are we not ready?
Again those are not just gamed against Labour. A lot of the media you refer to are non-UK, non-EU foreign, if not British "I-want-lower-taxes"-billionaire owned. It's kinda amazing nobody pointed out consistently that they've got huge foreign interests in driving a wedge between the UK and EU. That's one of the things I'm surprised about with regards to Brexit, virtually nobody is exploring the motives of these companies to stimulate it so strongly because they assume they're just "right wing media, thus pro-conservatives".I was referring to the media, particularly the influence of The Sun and The Mail. I have no arguments with your views on the FPTP system.