next labour leader

I wish Miliband had said that a couple of months back when it wasn't a lost cause. And it's always refreshing to see the left backing purges of those they disagree with.
Sorry that wasn't clear from me, the article refers to the impact of the Trade Union bill that the Tories are bringing in.
My bad, should have read the article! But yeah the Tories are apparently as leftwing as Labour anyway so I'm sure they wouldn't do such a thing.
 
I wish Miliband had said that a couple of months back when it wasn't a lost cause. And it's always refreshing to see the left backing purges of those they disagree with.
My bad, should have read the article! But yeah the Tories are apparently as leftwing as Labour anyway so I'm sure they wouldn't do such a thing.

If you "disagree with" and subvert democracy then you must be purged in order to preserve democracy. It's really as simple as that.

It's not as if there aren't some on the right who are also appalled and embarrassed by the anti-democratic behaviour of the Blairites. It's a fact that the right have historically shown a greater proclivity to full-blown rebellion and splitting but there have always been loyal Labourites across the spectrum.
 
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I wish Miliband had said that a couple of months back when it wasn't a lost cause. And it's always refreshing to see the left backing purges of those they disagree with.

If an MP respects the democratic consensus then its fine. If they don't then they're not fit to be representatives of a democratic body, regardless of whether they're left of Trotsky or right of Genghis Khan.
 
If you "disagree with" and subvert democracy then you must be purged in order to preserve democracy. It's really as simple as that.
It's Peter Mandelson ffs, he schemes for a hobby. Whereas the idea of Kendall and Cooper dropping out is perfectly normal democratic practice when people want to unite behind a single candidate, though in this case I fail to see the point given that there's preferential voting in place. Corbyn's slated to win in the first round anyway.
 
Just noticed David Miliband has endorsed Kendall, maybe he can offer his expertise on how to blow a leadership election :)
 
Unfortunately Labour seem to only have two types of potential leaders at the moment, those that could win a general election but can't win the leadership, and those that can win the leadership but can't win a general election. We need a hybrid of some ilk.
 
Thanks for the info. If there's no cap, I suppose the unions could just donate to the extent they were paying the party in affiliation fees. All unions ballot their members on whether to continue paying for affiliation anyway, we just had ours in Unite recently as did GMB.

Unions aren't allowed to give money to political causes in any other way, it has to come from the political levy.
 
Unions aren't allowed to give money to political causes in any other way, it has to come from the political levy.
Are you aware of any law or obstacle that stops them from increasing the proportion of the union dues going into the political fund?
 
We Tories are in a state of disbelief about Jeremy Corbyn

How did it get to the point where a Sinn Fein-loving, monarchy-baiting Leftie could lead the Opposition? Conservatives can't believe their luck

By Boris Johnson
16 Aug 2015


It begins with a look of slow and wondering amazement – as if he hardly dares believe his luck; and then the certainty builds, millisecond by millisecond. Then the eyebrows go up even higher, and the mouth gapes and the eyes pop and the epiglottis vibrates as he lets out a long, whooping yell of sheer incredulous ecstasy.

That is how police chief Brody reacts in the last reel of Jaws when, by some fluke, he manages to shoot a bullet right into the oxygen tank in the mouth of the shark, and the ravening fish improbably explodes. That is frankly how we in the Tory party feel as we watch what is happening in the Labour movement today.

If these polls are right (and that is a pretty big if these days) then we are at that preliminary stage in Roy Scheider’s masterful portrait of the joyful police chief. We aren’t yet whooping, but our eyebrows are twitching north in incredulity. We are filled with disbelief that this can really be taking place, a distrust of the evidence of our senses.

If all these forecasts are right – the polls, the betting markets, the pundits – then that fearsome New Labour machine is in the process of some kind of violent, unexpected and hilarious disintegration. It really looks as though it might be the end for the ruthless beast that won three election victories and struck terror for so long into Tory hearts. Can it be true? Can this be happening? Are they really proposing that Her Majesty’s Opposition should be led by Jeremy Corbyn?

It is not just that he has next to zero support among mainstream Labour MPs in the Commons; it doesn’t matter that he has rebelled against the party leadership ever since he has been in the House. Indeed, it doesn’t matter that he sometimes identifies the right problems – low pay, underinvestment in infrastructure, or whatever. It is his solutions that are so out of whack with reality.

This is a man whose policies are way, way to the Left even of the last Labour leader – Miliband – a man who in the end was resoundingly rejected by the electorate for being too Left-wing. Jeremy Corbyn is a bearded version of Ken Livingstone (I think they even go to the same tailor for their vests). He would take this country back to the 1970s, or perhaps even the 1790s. He believes in higher taxes and a bigger deficit, and kowtowing to the unions, and abandoning all attempts to introduce competition or academic rigour in schools – let alone reforming welfare.

He is a Sinn Fein-loving, monarchy-baiting, Israel-bashing believer in unilateral nuclear disarmament. It is nonsense to compare him to Michael Foot, who had been at least a Cabinet minister and before that a distinguished campaigner against the pre-war appeasers. This is a man who, for more than 30 years, has made a political career out of being explicitly and avowedly on the Spartist Left. He is a frondist, an inhabitant of the semi-Trot margin, an unrepentant lover of oppositionalism. Never in all his wildest dreams did he imagine that he might be leader of what has been – until this year – one of the major parties of government; and now he is having greatness thrust upon him.

How have the People’s party engineered this extraordinary horlicks? There are four groups of culprits. There is the Miliband regime, as mentioned, which not only came up with the deranged rules of the contest – by which, at one stage, the power to help choose the next Labour leader was handed to my old friend, the Conservative penseur Toby Young. Mili and co also shifted Labour so much to the Left that they managed to give a kind of spurious legitimacy to the Corbyn agenda. Miliband adopted wholesale the Livingstone playbook of state-enforced price freezes and rent controls and other attempts to buck the market.

There is a sense in which Corbyn is explicitly the heir of Miliband – and it is notable that Ed has kept a low profile lately, as if he realises the enormity of what he has done. The next group of culprits are all the New Labour old guard: Alastair Campbell, Mandelson, and above all Mr Tony himself – they have been cloth-eared in their response, hectoring Labour supporters who still haven’t forgiven them for the Iraq war; and as for Blair’s suggestion that Corbyn-backers “get a heart transplant”, it conjured an unfortunate image of our zillionaire former PM, jetting off to California for expensive organ-swapping procedures that are simply beyond the means of most people in this country.

The third set of villains is, of course, the other candidates, who have been so robotically dull that they have made Jeremy’s woolly ruminations seem positively electrifying. They are so torpid that it almost feels as if they want to lose. Come on, guys: where is the fire? Where are your plans to build a new Jerusalem? I cannot think of a single thing any of them has said – except to bash Corbyn, with the result that Corbyn is the story, Corbyn is the guy that everyone wants to see – and the loony Corbynmania grows, like a stock market bubble that will burst too late.

Which brings me to the group that bears final responsibility for what may – may, as I say – be about to happen: the armies of Labour rank and file who honestly seem to think that this might be the way forward. Yes, there really are a few hundred thousand people who seriously think that we should turn back the clock, take huge swathes of industry back into public ownership and massively expand the state.

The problem for Labour is that they do not represent the majority of people in this country. That is the real lesson of this campaign so far: that the mass of the Labour Party is totally out of touch with reality and common sense. How should we Tories react? Well, that is for another column; but in the meantime we watch with befuddlement and bewilderment that is turning all the time into a sense of exhilarating vindication: I told you they were loony.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...a-state-of-disbelief-about-Jeremy-Corbyn.html



Labour leadership leadership - Politics Weekly podcast

The ballot papers are being sent out this week, but if you believe the pollsters, it's a one-horse race.

Labour MPs, hardened lobby hacks, and even Corbyn himself have all been stunned by polls that have shown the bearded leftist from Islington North on track to take command of his party.

Will a Corbyn win spell disaster for the Labour party? Or could Corbyn beat the odds to be the next Labour PM?

Joining Tom Clark to discuss are the Guardian's Owen Jones, Anne Perkins and John Harris, plus we talk to political polling expert Mike Smithson from politicalbetting.com

Listen here :: http://download.guardian.co.uk/audi...0813.sb.politics-weekly-labour-leadership.mp3


A better panel than the last time i heard PW.

Yesterday i thin it was 712 who mentioned that we could see both the Tories and Labour taking more polarised positions, an eventuality which couldn't but be of help to the recovery of the Lib Dems IMO.
 
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You should be able to express doubt about Corbyn without risking vitriol

Gordon Brown warned about Jeremy Corbyn winning the Labour leadership race. But the backlash against him has exposed a nasty side to the current debate

Suzanne Moore
Monday 17 August 2015


It’s nice, isn’t it, that Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t “do” personality? Or personal abuse. He’s above all that. Gordon Brown doesn’t do personal either, so he made an entire speech about how bad it would be for Labour to elect Corbyn, without ever directly naming him. Politics, even this new, uplifting, morally superior kind, still operates by different rules to normal discourse.

I am sure Corbyn genuinely does not want to sink to the level of yelling at his opponents, but the specialist subject of some of his supporters is vile abuse. This may just be the modus operandi of social media now, but it is unedifying to see that the mood music of those who would enact the socialist dream involves, at times, screaming at anyone who harbours any doubt about Corbyn. Express the slightest qualm about his potential leadership and you’re apparently a war-mongering moron who feasts on homeless people. Or, if you are Liz Kendall, basically to the right of Iain Duncan Smith.

If Labour decides to elect two blokes - Corbyn and Tom Watson as his deputy - then all the misogyny in the Labour leadership race may well go unnoticed, replaced by the magical moment, in 2020, when the sleepy Marxists of the market towns are awakened from their slumbers, and Labour sweeps to victory.

The bile directed towards Tony Blair and the never-elected Alastair Campbell is entirely understandable. They signify so much that is wrong. When Peter Mandelson sweeps in, swirling his pantomime villain cloak, with a plot he has clearly lost, support for Corbyn solidifies. All we need now is Ed Miliband on the virtue of carving a load of old tosh on a tombstone, for the circle to be complete.

But I was disturbed by the vitriol poured out against Gordon Brown this weekend, even while I’m aware of his flaws. As leader, he was arrogant, stubborn, compelled by power but unable to exercise it, he sanctioned nasty briefings against loyal colleagues, he was too cautious to call the only election he could have won in 2007. He did not have the charisma that leadership appears to demand, which the Corbynites may note. But what he said in his speech was hard-won, and moving.
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He was mocked for pacing up and down while giving his speech; it’s not surprising he memorised it, since his eyesight is now not good. When he talked of the pain of rejection, the heartbreak of grief, he knew exactly what he was talking about, both personally and politically.

If we now see the utter demolition of Blairism, then Brownism too will fall, but for an ex-PM to have to say (contra-Brian Eno) that the purpose of a party is to be in power, emphasises the extraordinary times we’re in.

The ideals of the Corbyn campaign may be laudable, but to cast anyone with any doubts about it as the same enemy is completely ridiculous. Is Blair, with a fortune of £80m and his advice service for a dictator, the same as Brown, who gives most of his earnings to charity? In that case, the Brown/Blair split is certainly over, though it was re-enacted by the Miliband fratricide. We can start at year zero, can we? This is utter fantasy.

If Brown’s career ended as all political careers are said to, in failure, is there any need to trash everything about him now? If Corbyn embodies common decency, it would be good to actually see more of that from his supporters, and less of the nasty party.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...leadership-vitriol-jeremy-corbyn-gordon-brown
 
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This coming from the camp smearing Corbyn as an anti-Semite.

OK.
 
Has he clarified the links to the holocaust denier yet?
They were clarified within the very same Daily Mail character assassination piece.

'Paul Eisen is not someone Jeremy Corbyn's office has any dealings with. Based upon what is written in the articles here, anyone can call themselves a “long time associate” when in fact that is not the case. Paul Eisen clearly holds some of the most extreme views that are entirely his, and Jeremy totally opposes them and disassociates himself from them.'
 
They were clarified within the very same Daily Mail character assassination piece.

'Paul Eisen is not someone Jeremy Corbyn's office has any dealings with. Based upon what is written in the articles here, anyone can call themselves a “long time associate” when in fact that is not the case. Paul Eisen clearly holds some of the most extreme views that are entirely his, and Jeremy totally opposes them and disassociates himself from them.'
What about the next line in the article?

"When asked to confirm whether Corbyn knows Eisen personally, or whether Eisen's accounts of Corbyn attending 'every single' one of his events and 'opening his cheque book' to his organisation are correct, the spokesperson declined to comment."

I know that as of a few days ago questions around the donations and attending the conferences hadn't been answered yet and just wondered if I'd missed them, given all the other hilarity going on.

It's not about him being an anti-semite, I'm quite sure he's not, it's about his judgement. I've not brought it up in here before as I hoped he had some firm denials coming, but since you're alleging that people in Labour are trying to smear him as an anti-semite, I thought I'd clarify what it's actually about.
 
It's not about him being an anti-semite, I'm quite sure he's not, it's about his judgement. I've not brought it up in here before as I hoped he had some firm denials coming, but since you're alleging that people in Labour are trying to smear him as an anti-semite, I thought I'd clarify what it's actually about.

Even if the Elsen links were to be fair, better judgement has never stopped any Labour or Conservative government from backing anti-Semitic regimes such as Saudi Arabia. And what about David Cameron's judgement then?! Andy Coulson ffs!

The point again is rather then focussing on what the other candidates have to offer, the focus seems to on discrediting Corbyn. Yet the public are sick and tired of this character assassination kind of politics.
 
What about the next line in the article?

"When asked to confirm whether Corbyn knows Eisen personally, or whether Eisen's accounts of Corbyn attending 'every single' one of his events and 'opening his cheque book' to his organisation are correct, the spokesperson declined to comment."

I know that as of a few days ago questions around the donations and attending the conferences hadn't been answered yet and just wondered if I'd missed them, given all the other hilarity going on.

It's not about him being an anti-semite, I'm quite sure he's not, it's about his judgement. I've not brought it up in here before as I hoped he had some firm denials coming, but since you're alleging that people in Labour are trying to smear him as an anti-semite, I thought I'd clarify what it's actually about.

"alleging" :confused: .. you know very well that this is the case.

It turns out he has since made further comment.

 
So, "He's besties with anti-semites" is actually him donating some money to help a village that was getting fecked over by Israel? Sounds about right, given how tenuous his critics are.
 
Even if the Elsen links were to be fair, better judgement has never stopped any Labour or Conservative government from backing anti-Semitic regimes such as Saudi Arabia. And what about David Cameron's judgement then?! Andy Coulson ffs!

The point again is rather then focussing on what the other candidates have to offer, the focus seems to on discrediting Corbyn. Yet the public are sick and tired of this character assassination kind of politics.
The contest has been going on for three months, most people just weren't paying attention because the candidates said things they didn't like. Now it's a car crash, everyone's having a look. And right now, given the polling figures, most of the conversation is regarding Corbyn and why you should or shouldn't vote for him. None of the other candidates are perfect but at least they won't cripple the party's chances for the next few elections.

"alleging" :confused: .. you know very well that this is the case.

It turns out he has since made further comment.


"He wasn't a holocaust denier back then". Okay...
 
Do you demand a background check from everyone who canvases you for a donation?
I never intend to run for leader of the opposition in fairness. Someone took the piss out of Umunna on the last page for not expecting the papers to dig around his private life, semi double standards when people start screaming smear as soon as people look into the likely leader of the Labour party's previous connections with an openly anti-semitic organisation. I wouldn't want him to do something similarly dumb in future, is the main thing. He's not in blissful backbench anonymity any more.
What's that supposed to mean? Are you claiming that he was?
Feck knows, I was just hoping for something more along the lines of "I have never seen or met this man in my life and would never give money to an organisation run by him, he's an insane fantasist." Ideally.
 
I almost forgot about the lie and smear throughout the press that he supported the IRA bombings.

In fact he refused to single out the IRA for condemnation, but clearly said he condemned all the atrocities committed on all sides, including by the British Army.
 
I was ambivalent about Corbyn, but the over-zealous media wave against him has made me like him infinitely more by default, and I'm pretty sure, has boosted his profile exponentially. The fact @Nick 0208 Ldn has spent the last few pages posting a seemingly endless raft of telegraph articles/poor man's Brookerish satire about someone who by rights should be inconsequential to a majority Tory government in the immediate aftermath of a landslide vitory, makes me think he may actually be onto something, whether he actually is or not. Labour have been such a mess of post defeat rubble clambering bitchyness that you'd think the right would just leave them to it. Instead they're treating him like the heir to Russell Brand.
 
I was ambivalent about Corbyn, but the over-zealous media wave against him has made me like him infinitely more by default, and I'm pretty sure, has boosted his profile exponentially. The fact @Nick 0208 Ldn has spent the last few pages posting a seemingly endless raft of telegraph articles/poor man's Brookerish satire about someone who by rights should be inconsequential to a majority Tory government in the immediate aftermath of a landslide vitory, makes me think he may actually be onto something, whether he actually is or not. Labour have been such a mess of post defeat rubble clambering bitchyness that you'd think the right would just leave them to it. Instead they're treating him like the heir to Russell Brand.

The Eton chinless wonders do seem to be a tad concerned old boy.
 
I never intend to run for leader of the opposition in fairness. Someone took the piss out of Umunna on the last page for not expecting the papers to dig around his private life, semi double standards when people start screaming smear as soon as people look into the likely leader of the Labour party's previous connections with an openly anti-semitic organisation. I wouldn't want him to do something similarly dumb in future, is the main thing. He's not in blissful backbench anonymity any more.

Feck knows, I was just hoping for something more along the lines of "I have never seen or met this man in my life and would never give money to an organisation run by him, he's an insane fantasist." Ideally.

Well, I'm reading his blog right now wherein he traces his own journey from Zionist to Holocaust-denier, and as Corbyn correctly stated, he was not a Holocaust denier at the time he approached Jeremy Corbyn for support for the Palestinian memorial.
 
The contest has been going on for three months, most people just weren't paying attention because the candidates said things they didn't like. Now it's a car crash, everyone's having a look. And right now, given the polling figures, most of the conversation is regarding Corbyn and why you should or shouldn't vote for him. None of the other candidates are perfect but at least they won't cripple the party's chances for the next few elections.

Now, I'm not saying I personally agree with Corbyn on many matters. But I do think Corbyn is a politician who is actually saying things that appeal to large parts of the general public, particular the younger generations. This is the reason why he seems to be doing so well. The other candidates are just coming out with the same old drivel we've had for the past decades and have no appeal what so ever. Suddenly it looks as if Corbyn could win the Labour leadership contest. The powers to be are getting worried and have started to turn the debate in some kind character assassination of Corbyn.
Actually, I think Corbyn is sounding a lot like the SNP leadership and we've seen how unelectable the SNP have become...
 
If the Tories were so smug about the prospect of Corbyn's leadership bid, would they be so overtly smug? Maybe, but part of me thinks that despite them being confident of winning a 2020 election against a Corbyn led Labour, they won't relish the prospect of PMQs.
 
Now, I'm not saying I personally agree with Corbyn on many matters. But I do think Corbyn is a politician who is actually saying things that appeal to large parts of the general public, particular the younger generations. This is the reason why he seems to be doing so well. The other candidates are just coming out with the same old drivel we've had for the past decades and have no appeal what so ever. Suddenly it looks as if Corbyn could win the Labour leadership contest. The powers to be are getting worried and have started to turn the debate in some kind character assassination of Corbyn.
Actually, I think Corbyn is sounding a lot like the SNP leadership and we've seen how unelectable the SNP have become...

The whole leadership campaign largely resembles Labour vs SNP in May, actually. Labour assumed they'd always win up in Scotland, just as the party assumed that someone like Corbyn wouldn't win the leadership campaign. Corbyn/SNP start to grow in popularity, yet Labour assume that they'll still not win and simply go away. It soon becomes clear that this isn't the case, so Labour engage in an increasingly negative campaign against the more preferred candidate who manages to give across a more honest and positive vibe. This doesn't work for Labour, yet they continue in that campaign anyway.

It appears they're incapable of learning from their errors.
 
The Eton chinless wonders do seem to be a tad concerned old boy.

I haven't formed an opinion of him either way yet, in truth, despite being somewhat invested in the potential re-emergence of labour. But I'm far more interested in finding out, and forming one, thanks to the Faragian like terror he seems to be inspiring in the mainstream media. More than I ever was when he was a no mark outsider at any rate.
 
The best thing about corbyn as leader of the opposition imo will be pmq's
I can actually see him not giving a toss about the party politics and trying to engage on issues... I doubt it will work but at least he will try
 
If the Tories were so smug about the prospect of Corbyn's leadership bid, would they be so overtly smug? Maybe, but part of me thinks that despite them being confident of winning a 2020 election against a Corbyn led Labour, they won't relish the prospect of PMQs.

It's a really piss-poor bluff by Boris and chums. Feigning joy about Corbyn at this point just isn't credible once the entire right-wing establishment have publicly shat their pants.

It's funny reading how angry the #ToriesforCorbyn cunthawk Toby Young is now on Twitter about all this.
 
I haven't formed an opinion of him either way yet, in truth, despite being somewhat invested in the potential re-emergence of labour. But I'm far more interested in finding out, and forming one, thanks to the Faragian like terror he seems to be inspiring in the mainstream media. More than I ever was when he was a no mark outsider at any rate.

I am astonished he has got this far to be honest. I draw comparisons to Trump in the states, not because Corbyn is an idiot he isnt, but because he was so far out of the established centre that you could never see him making a legitimate go of it.
 
Well, I'm reading his blog right now wherein he traces his own journey from Zionist to Holocaust-denier, and as Corbyn correctly stated, he was not a Holocaust denier at the time he approached Jeremy Corbyn for support for the Palestinian memorial.
Where was he on the scale? Holocaust scepticism? Or Zionism-lite?
Now, I'm not saying I personally agree with Corbyn on many matters. But I do think Corbyn is a politician who is actually saying things that appeal to large parts of the general public, particular the younger generations. This is the reason why he seems to be doing so well. The other candidates are just coming out with the same old drivel we've had for the past decades and have no appeal what so ever. Suddenly it looks as if Corbyn could win the Labour leadership contest. The powers to be are getting worried and have started to turn the debate in some kind character assassination of Corbyn.
Actually, I think Corbyn is sounding a lot like the SNP leadership and we've seen how unelectable the SNP have become...
I guess we're going to have to see on the general public front, I did some highly boring percentages a page or two back to show that winning a majority of Labour members doesn't really equate to national popularity though...

The SNP is a different case really, the party system in Scotland is still connected to the UK which hurts Labour and helps the SNP, a UK-wide party wouldn't be able to achieve the same results. The middle England constituencies that went Tory which Labour need aren't as welcoming to that kind of rhetoric.

If the Tories were so smug about the prospect of Corbyn's leadership bid, would they be so overtly smug? Maybe, but part of me thinks that despite them being confident of winning a 2020 election against a Corbyn led Labour, they won't relish the prospect of PMQs.
Seriously they'll love it. Ed had the support of almost half the PLP and Cameron could still make the party feel pretty awkward at PMQs with him as leader, whereas there's probably at least 2/3 now that are actively hostile to Corbyn. Imagine that the Tories were going to get Farage as their next leader, I wouldn't be able to stop being smug ever.
 
What's the shadow cabinet going to look like next month?
I hope Dennis skinner is in there
If your going to make us unelectable at least let us have a laugh about it
e393626c721104ddf31dbe9a7fcf4750.jpg
 
Where was he on the scale? Holocaust scepticism? Or Zionism-lite?

He says he began to doubt the veracity of the Holocaust in 2005, and he apparently met Corbyn in 2000. I should add that the organisation DYR was not founded by him, but he was involved in bringing the organisation to this country. The organisation is headquartered in New York.