Good to see nothing has changed in London since then!
next labour leader
- Thread starter sun_tzu
- Start date
Good to see nothing has changed in London since then!
A dozen or more indeed, now you do exaggerate.
So far as i can recall, i have made reference to no policy or sentiment which could not reasonably be ascribed to Corbyn. Please, do highlight any such instance where i have done.
In one of your later posts you cite his policy portfolio as being worthy of credit when compared to the other candidates, yet his economic proposals have been shown to be of either questionable costing or misleading intent. Oh and according to Cooper, the latest estimate for Jeremy's energy re-nationalisation plan is £185bn.
You're probably right that not many people think we're being hard on Russia, I just mean to say I don't think it's an important issue to many people either. Trident would be a much more important issue and scrapping it has a fair amount of support.
I find it difficult to fathom how some people seem to be quite keen to fear monger about Jeremy Corbyn being the Labour leader, citing that it would 'divide' or 'destroy' the party... as if the Labour party is in anything other than a sorry state as it is. It represents nothing, literally nothing. All Miliband etc and the other candidates can say is meaningless politics drivel, and that is not me being over dramatic in the slightest. Perhaps because their real motives are a million miles from the roots of the Labour party, they can't possibly be honest or up front with their views. You might not agree with everything Corbyn says but he's the only one to say exactly what he thinks, and he actually comes across as a thoroughly decent man. That's what politics should be about, people having their own beliefs and being chosen based on that, not some weasel who gives up their beliefs at the drop of a hat for a small amount of votes, which seems to be quite acceptable in UK politics for at least my short life time.
I can understand the media doing it and various political chronies, but when individuals start doing it I find that incredibly sad, almost beyond all comprehension. I've seen so many people in the media laughing at the idea of Corbyn, going back to this notion that loads of people are voting for him as a joke or a sabotage tactic, as if by the thousand where in fact there's probably less than fifty if that. Who actually cares enough to do that? It's like one or two people suggested it as a joke and the media keep running with it like it somehow voids all support of the man. To me this is the most telling sign that the 'powers that be' (for want of a better phrase) are quite blatantly scared of Corbyn and the change that he could bring about, and so they should be, the absolute cnuts.
I can understand the media doing it and various political chronies, but when individuals start doing it I find that incredibly sad, almost beyond all comprehension. I've seen so many people in the media laughing at the idea of Corbyn, going back to this notion that loads of people are voting for him as a joke or a sabotage tactic, as if by the thousand where in fact there's probably less than fifty if that. Who actually cares enough to do that? It's like one or two people suggested it as a joke and the media keep running with it like it somehow voids all support of the man. To me this is the most telling sign that the 'powers that be' (for want of a better phrase) are quite blatantly scared of Corbyn and the change that he could bring about, and so they should be, the absolute cnuts.
25% support in the UK
48% in Scotland
According to this poll taken early 2015
http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/13...d_48__of_Scots_think_UK_should_scrap_Trident/
So perhaps not that popular?
It makes you look weak, trying to cosy up to an illiberal totalitarian narcissist. It certainly won't gain you votes. Again, not seen the evidence to say there's any support for unilaterally disarming.
"Opinion across the UK is more split, with 20% saying they would be less favourable towards Labour if the party agreed to scrap Trident compared with 18% who said they would be more favourable." From that there wouldn't appear to be so much in it. Do have the link to the actual poll? I had a quick look and couldn't find that exact one.
I just don't see our diplomatic relations with Russia being a vote loser either.
No... But here is a YouGov one showing a similar sub 30% in favour of unilateral nuclear disarmament
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
Really? It makes Corbyn look a fool. We all know how Putin operates.
Just saw a Corbyn supporting councillor on Newsnight state that he doesn't know whether Corbyn even wants to win a general election, and that this doesn't necessarily worry him.
Robert Webb's had a good mini twitter rant too
Robert Webb's had a good mini twitter rant too
Given successive govenments' attitudes to the Saudi royal family, I daresay the British public aren't overly concerned how we deal with foreign tyrants, rightly or wrongly.
I think a great deal of people will think him a fool for wanting to disarm our nuclear capability and seek diplomacy with Putin.
Oh god, this is actually going to happen every week
It seems to me a lot seem to be underestimating Corbyn. I don't like comparing, but in the states their closest equivalent is Bernie Sanders and no one is taking him lightly at all, there isn't half as much mockery going.
No one's mocking Sanders because he's not looking remotely likely to challenge. He's a cute irrelevance, at present.
Watching Newsnight just now, it really looks like senior Labour figures are firmly on the offensive against Corbyn - I don't recall seeing such an intense electoral pitch against a rival candidate as Cooper delivered in that interview with Wark. Following on from Blair yesterday, and of course Campbell, Corbyn seems to be involved in a civil war before he's even elected leader. The worst thing is that rather than his campaign shaking things up in the party and stimulating policy debate, it seems the old guard just want him shutdown altogether so business can go on as usual.
Compelling to watch though; conference will certainly be interesting if Corbyn actually manages to provail.
Compelling to watch though; conference will certainly be interesting if Corbyn actually manages to provail.
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I was thinking of voting for Cooper, but she was just on and came across as quite sexist to me. Don't like that, we are individuals, not categories.
I think Sanders is going to become a bigger challenge in the coming months though.
Is this based on something more than his popularity on websites that consist largely of intelligent left leaning folks?
No, just my own.
And none of the other three candidates stand a chance in hell. If 2020 looks like a slim shot for all candidates, then the Labour party is better serving as a genuine opposition instead of a diet version of the Tories, what sort of alternative is that?
A dozen or more indeed, now you do exaggerate.
So far as i can recall, i have made reference to no policy or sentiment which could not reasonably be ascribed to Corbyn. Please, do highlight any such instance where i have done.
In one of your later posts you cite his policy portfolio as being worthy of credit when compared to the other candidates, yet his economic proposals have been shown to be of either questionable costing or misleading intent. Oh and according to Cooper, the latest estimate for Jeremy's energy re-nationalisation plan is £185bn.
Many economists have claimed the contrary, its a matter of perspective. Its all good for Cooper to start picking apart Corbyn's policies with her own figures, but it'll also be nice to hear some of her own suggested policies.
I really don't understand what the labour executives are thinking. Corbyn's on a whirlwind of support but instead of stoking those flames and gaining votes they're actively pissing on the fire. I can see why the tories might make fun of and try to undermine him, but what the feck is Labour thinking?
I guarantee you, what certain members of Labour are doing now will be 100 times more harmful to the party than any potential Corbyn leadership. They're essentially patronising thousands of people who have been sufficiently inspired out of apathy to actively support a Labour politician.
The Guardian has been a joke in terms of coverage, and now they've declared for Cooper (nothing wrong with that, but it comes across as part of their "anyone but Jeremy" agenda when viewed in the context of their recent coverage).
The Guardian has been a joke in terms of coverage, and now they've declared for Cooper (nothing wrong with that, but it comes across as part of their "anyone but Jeremy" agenda when viewed in the context of their recent coverage).
Completely agree. I'm one of the votes they should be winning and all they're doing it giving me reason after reason to stick with the Greens.
They've pretty much now guaranteed a nasty blowback for themselves if Corbyn doesn't win. The thousands that came out of apathy to support him will feel very bitter and will likely flock en masse to the likes of the Greens. Good luck trying to galvanise the support base after that.
Getting your excuses in already then. Corbyn's failure will be blamed on everyone else in Labour and the hard left will live to fight another day (in their own minds anyway).
Well the rest of Labour didn't learn from the last defeat that triangulation politics doesn't work, no ones going to choose 'risky' Labour just because it now sounds almost as toxic as the Conservatives.
They're all coming out with more political attacks now than they did during the entire election campaign where they were too scared to do so.
I just hope the candidates actually believe these attacks and this isn't all some pathetic playground politics with the young career politicians and blairites in the party sticking together.
Of course they believe the attacks. The only group that believe that Corbyn is in anyway electable are his supporters and they are not a significant quantity nationwide.
Do you really believe that the attacks come out of a genuine fear of his ideology?
Is Trident really needed... if a nuclear weapon from 1945 can cause the amount of damage we saw in Hiroshima, surely we would be sufficiently protected by possessing a minimum arsenal of nuclear weapons which do not require a further upgrade?
Also in 5 years if the situation changed, we could always just invest more in nuclear weapons if need be.. its doesn't have to b a lifetime decision and we can focus the money wasted on that on something else?
Also in 5 years if the situation changed, we could always just invest more in nuclear weapons if need be.. its doesn't have to b a lifetime decision and we can focus the money wasted on that on something else?
Completely lost track of this whole debate. Labour supporters, who do you prefer? Seems like Corbyn isn't liked too much. The only canditate I don't really like is Liz Kendall and I can't even give you real reasons why.
Where is Labour's 'Jeremy Corbyn mania' coming from?
Despair at Labour's general election defeat has given way to a mood of celebration on the British left, as their candidate emerges as the unlikely frontrunner in the party's leadership contest. But where is the support for Jeremy Corbyn, a previously obscure backbencher, coming from?
"All over the country we are getting these huge gatherings of people. The young, the old, black and white and many people that haven't been involved in politics before."
Jeremy Corbyn addresses a standing room only crowd in Euston, North London.
On this Monday evening so many people have turned up, some supporters are left standing in the street scouting for spare tickets.
It feels more like the build-up to an album launch than a political meeting.
For those unable to pack into the hall Corbyn ends up speaking from the roof of a waiting fire engine.
'Life on hold'
When he eventually makes it indoors he's mobbed by photographers, rapturous applause and the sounds of John Legend's contemporary protest song, Glory, thundering over the PA.
This is slicker, more vibrant and just plain bigger than anything left-leaning party politics has seen in Britain for a generation. Even Corbyn looks a bit surprised. As if this campaign has gone further than anyone could have predicted.
So what exactly is going on?
Are Corbyn's supporters simply a collective of the usual leftist campaigners congregating under a contemporary banner or is there more to this left revival?
Lyndsey is a 30-year-old musician who believes her experience and support for Corbyn is representative of a shift in the landscape of British politics.
"I have put my life on hold, my music and my job to put time into this because it's something I believe in," she says.
"I really care about this so much because I think it's an opportunity to really change things."
More democratic
Lyndsey is in no way connected to the official Corbyn campaign but has made a series of online clips to address issues such as the housing crisis.
"It's about provoking discussion. I paid my £3 online and I'm trying to get as many people as possible to do the same."
More
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33881104
Despair at Labour's general election defeat has given way to a mood of celebration on the British left, as their candidate emerges as the unlikely frontrunner in the party's leadership contest. But where is the support for Jeremy Corbyn, a previously obscure backbencher, coming from?
"All over the country we are getting these huge gatherings of people. The young, the old, black and white and many people that haven't been involved in politics before."
Jeremy Corbyn addresses a standing room only crowd in Euston, North London.
On this Monday evening so many people have turned up, some supporters are left standing in the street scouting for spare tickets.
It feels more like the build-up to an album launch than a political meeting.
For those unable to pack into the hall Corbyn ends up speaking from the roof of a waiting fire engine.
'Life on hold'
When he eventually makes it indoors he's mobbed by photographers, rapturous applause and the sounds of John Legend's contemporary protest song, Glory, thundering over the PA.
This is slicker, more vibrant and just plain bigger than anything left-leaning party politics has seen in Britain for a generation. Even Corbyn looks a bit surprised. As if this campaign has gone further than anyone could have predicted.
So what exactly is going on?
Are Corbyn's supporters simply a collective of the usual leftist campaigners congregating under a contemporary banner or is there more to this left revival?
Lyndsey is a 30-year-old musician who believes her experience and support for Corbyn is representative of a shift in the landscape of British politics.
"I have put my life on hold, my music and my job to put time into this because it's something I believe in," she says.
"I really care about this so much because I think it's an opportunity to really change things."
More democratic
Lyndsey is in no way connected to the official Corbyn campaign but has made a series of online clips to address issues such as the housing crisis.
"It's about provoking discussion. I paid my £3 online and I'm trying to get as many people as possible to do the same."
More
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33881104
You can't honestly pretend that there isn't a smear campaign currently under way? How many times has Corbyn said of Burnham, Cooper or Kendall what that they and their cronies are queueing up every day to say about him?
It's a status thing. If Trident goes so does any pretension of the UK as even a mid-level power on the world stage. The permanent seat on the Security Council would probably be under risk as well.
It's all beginning to feel a lot like the Labour campaign up here in Scotland back at the General Election. Corbyn/SNP begin to gain more momentum over Labour/rival candidates, after being more of an outsider. Labour simply assume that support will swing back in their direction, because that's what usually happens.
As Labour begin to panic, they adopt more of a negative smear approach in order to discredit the candidate/party that suddenly have all the momentum over them. This doesn't work, yet Labour continue in that approach anyway, unable to adapt and realise they're adopting a hilariously awful approach that's alienating voters.
Anyone else get the Kendall campaign email through this morning?
"The Labour party needs a fresh start (that's me, I'm new in town see. I even dated Greg Davies, I know crazy!). We must rebuild our party and regain the trust of voters who've turned their backs on us (we must distance ourselves from silly traditional Labour values and become one with responsible austerity)
We need to win and put our values into action in government (I'll share my values once I've decided how to win), because when Labour wins, so does our country (unless they choose Corbyn then you're all going to burn)."
I may have added more detail to the vapid political statements.....
"The Labour party needs a fresh start (that's me, I'm new in town see. I even dated Greg Davies, I know crazy!). We must rebuild our party and regain the trust of voters who've turned their backs on us (we must distance ourselves from silly traditional Labour values and become one with responsible austerity)
We need to win and put our values into action in government (I'll share my values once I've decided how to win), because when Labour wins, so does our country (unless they choose Corbyn then you're all going to burn)."
I may have added more detail to the vapid political statements.....
When such a large number of left wing commentators are reasoning that Corbyn won't win, at some point you have to accept that their view is sincerely held.
His economic policies have taken a battering in the economic press in the last two days to be honest. i can dig out the links later if its useful.
I wouldn't mind a read if you don't mind. I suppose for the sake of balance I'll dig out the ones which paint them in a less macabre light.