Next Labour leader - Starmer and Rayner win
- Thread starter Kaos
- Start date
The argument = not won.
Couldn't see lammy winning the leadership election...might have a decent chance for the deputy role if he went for that
Why not? Because of his politics and character or because he’s black?
Personally, I’ve seen him as one of Labours best chamber speakers, albeit it’s not a very distinguished field.
None of the above...
It seems the left have coalesced around wrong Dailey
Starmer has a bunch of support
And I think the centrist wing will coalesce around nandy or Phillips
I'm not sure where I see his backing coming from
I think his politics and character and quite possibly the BAME element are all actually advantageous to him hence I think he would have a good run at deputy but I don't think he has the internal support in the plp to mount a serious run at the top job
As a constituent of his, what's this about Kinnock? Genuine question, I've been on a much needed political hiatus this last few days.
Murphy and Milnes attack strategy for the election has been leaked. Its bordering on sabotage frankly.
Wasn't there an article in the Independent saying that 75+% of articles about Corbyn misrepresented his views in some way? When polled individually most of the policies (the 2017 ones at least) are popular, the issue comes when you associate them with Corbyn and, to a lesser extent, Labour.
For me, this is one of the reasons that, when it comes down to it, I will be urging others on the left of the party to elect a soft-left figure who is happy to build on the 2017 manifesto and foster some unity, rather than a Corbyn acolyte. The left needs to accept that, whether we think it's fair or not, Corbyn's name is poison to a lot of voters and electing one of his close circle will write the papers' attack lines for the next 5 years for them.
It's horrible that those two have permanent contracts (given not that long ago I believe) so will get a pay-off when they're deservedly sacked, whilst there are tons of other staffers being let go due to the short money situation.
I think you basically need to be trusted by the electorate before they'll be willing to back policies that involve change to the status quo. It's one thing saying you like something to a pollster, who doesn't mention how much it would cost, but it's another to vote for a party to implement it in addition to a number of other policies that involve a lot of change/money. Nationalisation is a good example, it tends to poll okay but I doubt it ever actively brings in votes because it's a minor issue to people, and I think can allow the opposition to frame you in a negative light (hark back to the 70s, frame you as statist etc).
It's also an unfortunate fact that Corbyn's name isn't going to vanish even when he's left the leadership, he's so unpopular that the Tories will bring his name up as often as they can to link him to the next leader, much in the manner of the financial crisis post 2010, or Foot in the 80s.
New Labour 408 seats in 1997.
Old Labour 203 seats in 2019.
And far fewer people voted for them in traditional Labour strongholds.
Don't believe me. Listen to and look at what labour voters said and did.
The facts are perfectly clear.
It's as if they're Tory agents looking to bring them down from within. This is what happens when idealogues are in charge.
Yep, that’s it Laura...
They’re both not great. RLB too far left and average politician, Raynor is a ridiculous notion, far too emotional, will get ruined by the opposition and press and she’s just not likeable.
Sadly Lammy could never win a general election because he is black and the older generations of this country are still racist. He would never get the support of those deep working class towns that still hold the same views embedded over decades.
I cannot recall any black MPs winning outside metropolitan areas where the majority of young people ate located. Parties don’t even field black candidates in those areas because they know their chances are slim to none. The vast majority of black MPs are concentrated in London.
In this election I think
Bim Afolami
Kwasi Kwarteng
Kemi Badenoch
Darren Henry
James Cleverly
Helen grant
Adam Afriyie
Sure there could be more... But some fairly high profile ones there
There are currently 21 MP's who are black / black mixed race
This is just over 3% of mps... With a black British population in the UK of around 3.5% so that sounds kinda logical
I think about half the black British population lives in London... And about half the MPs come from London constituiences (other metropolitan areas I would say I think you have an MP in Leicester, liverpool and one in Newcastle)... Again this seems relatively proportionate in terms of the London centric bias as MP's are supposed to at least represent an area they live (I know some don't)
I'm not sure the facts support your assumptions on this one... Though that's not to say things couldn't be more equitable in terms of distribution... I might be wrong about this but to the best of my knowledge for example Scotland has never elected a black MP or to the Scottish assembly (though I think the brexit party representative to the EU for Scotland was black British?)
Lammy I think simply does not have the backing in the party to get on the ballott... And that's not because he's black it's because the party seems to be splitting into 3 camps
Stay on the same platform (left... Momentum... Long bailey will probably be the pick ahead of Raynor or burgon
Small changed... Reduced platform but similar (middle ground... Starmer will probably be the pick but I think lammy and thornberry would fall into this category as well)
More comprehensive change ...( AKA Centrist blairite red Tory scum)... Nandy or Jess Phillips will probably be the one they coalease around with the likes of cooper also falling into this area
Suspect we get wrong daily + starter and or nandy / Phillips on the ballott
I'm hoping Phillips and for sure I'd vote lammy before wrong daily or burgon ... But on this occasion I simply don't think ethnicity is the reason he will be unviable (chukka was supposedly nailed in for next leader before jezbollah somehow stumbled into the race)
On this occasion I think the three tranches seem to be forming and I don't see lammy having the support certainly in the plp but also probably not with the unions and the local parties (which will have a big momentum leaning)
That said I hope he has a more prominent role in a Starmer or Phillips shadow cabinet (I hope he leaves the party along with 2/3rd of the plp if wrong daily wins)
Last edited:
All Tories too.
Out of all the ones you listed only David Henry in Broxtowe is remotely in a “deep working class” area but lets face it against Anna Soubry anyone would have won.
The rest of them are a stone-throw from London.
Great start to winning back the northern vote. Call them all racists.
Was it @Classical Mechanic who said 'cut out the identity politics'? Whoever it was is right anyway, this constant categorisation is turning voters away from Labour in shedloads. They are bored shitless by it at best. Talk to women and 'people of colour' that aren't in the leftie bubble and half of those are turned off or insulted by it as well.
You'll have to explain that one, sorry. Is it you?
I was thinking of editing my post though, rather than 'cut out identity politics' perhaps 'less emphasis on identity politics would be better..
I'll never be as cool as Nathan, sadly.
Its just amazing that the reaction to labour losing the last election has been older white guys tell black labour members to shut up(Identity politics is being used here as stand in for anti racist politics). The Blairites seems be having their gamer gate moment.
If this was the Caf in 2006, there'd be only only one response to that Tweet.
You nicely illustrate my point. How was I addressing black members? I was addressing the party as whole. But you're still banging on about age and colour so I got nowhere with that one I see.
I'll never be as cool as Nathan, sadly.
Its just amazing that the reaction to labour losing the last election has been older white guys tell black labour members to shut up(Identity politics is being used here as stand in for anti racist politics). The Blairites seems be having their gamer gate moment.
But all old people are racist Tories I’m told.
Only white northern ones, have you learned nothing?
All I've seen so far from the labour needs to ''abandon identity politics'' lot, is a push to drop polices that were put forward by BAME labour members/MP's(The policy to teach the injustices of the British empire, for example) in favour of a nostalgia white working class politics(Which is literally just another form of identity politics, but its so engrained into peoples minds that they don't even see it).
Last edited:
In an age of Austerity, inclusiveness of minorities has led to a feeling of rejection of the majority. There isn't a single part of that that isn't regrettable, but it's the sad reality we're living in.
If Labour want any hope, they need to play the Realpolitik game. If the last few elections have taught us anything, it's that the British electorate don't want a broad church right now. Only once they've improved their own lot, will they start caring about people who look different from them. I agree that Labour can only do that if they change their message to be less vocal on identity politics.
If Labour want any hope, they need to play the Realpolitik game. If the last few elections have taught us anything, it's that the British electorate don't want a broad church right now. Only once they've improved their own lot, will they start caring about people who look different from them. I agree that Labour can only do that if they change their message to be less vocal on identity politics.
Thread
I'm not sure which lot you're putting me in to, but less emphasis on the evils of empire, class, colour and age would be a step forward to connecting with the electorate as whole, yes. People don't like to be pigeonholed into categories, they want to be regarded as individuals.
Let the Tories run the NHS into the ground and all the over 65's will die. Then Labour will get voted in to fix the NHS and increase life expectancy and then get voted out again by those pesky over-65's.
Unless their pensions are to be affected .What else do they care about at this stage.
Sorry but that’s the sad reality. You simply cannot change the mentality of a lifetime.