Stop it because we want sleep.
NBA 2020-2021
- Thread starter altodevil
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I really didn't think The Bucks could improve their team that much. But they became so much better now with these two trades.
I love the deal. This years pick is quite high but in a poor draft, next years I don’t really care. With Dame and CJ we needed players who are ready to contribute now and Covington is that player. Not too long ago Rockets gave a pick and Capela for him so the price we paid wasn’t outrageous.
The price Bucks paid for Jrue was huge but it may have been the cost of keeping Giannis. If it turns out to be that then three first round picks will be worth it. It also has to be mentioned that as long as Giannis stays, and he’s just 25, those picks will consistently be in the 25-30 range which isn’t that valuable. Pick swaps will be worthless under those circumstances.
I probably like their deal for Bogdanovic more though. DiVincenzo is a solid player but Bog is ready to make significant contribution already. In all of that, swapping Bledsoe and DDV for Holiday and Bogdanovic is a very significant upgrade.
Looks like Harden to Nets (maybe Philadelphia with the outside chance) is going to happen eventually. Cost is the issue, Nets can package together quite a few decent players but their picks - at least in the short term - aren’t worth much. If I’m Houston I want all their valuable players (Dinwiddie, LeVert, Allen) and all of the picks they can offer beyond 2023 (anything prior to that is going to fall under Durant-Harden-Irving era). Then I’m flipping Dinwiddie the moment he gets here and keeping LeVert and Allen for now.
Welp, the Harden era was fun while it lasted.
The first domino falls.
The first domino falls.
I had been in denial ever since Harden rumours surfaced, but the realisation of the Rockets actually blowing it up and going into full rebuild mode is just hitting me and man it sucks that we didn't even get a finals appearance out of the Harden era.
On the bright side, once this happens you can join the rest of the basketball world in despising everything about Harden’s game.
Well... I think other things were more important for Harden. He is a stat padder and achieved unbelievable things in several categories. It's odd to expect a team-related achievement from him.
On the contrary, it will be bittersweet to watch him win a championship elsewhere.
I don't think that will be much of a worry.
Seriously though, I get it. I can appreciate that he was a master at what he did, even if it pissed me off to no end, and can understand that where you are coming from.
Harden, Irving and Durant has the potential to be incredibly entertaining. Hope it happens and they immediately implode.
Durant and Harden are both decent defenders, just depends on their effort. Irving is slightly below average but not terrible either.
I don't think that will be much of a worry.
Seriously though, I get it. I can appreciate that he was a master at what he did, even if it pissed me off to no end, and can understand that where you are coming from.
I always understood why people disliked him, and I sometimes wished we could diversify the offense a little more, but I knew we'd always be a competitive playoff team with him.
He's the best Rockets player in my lifetime, and arguably the second best player in Rockets history.
Durant is decent when engaged, but I am not buying that last years Harden is his new baseline of being not terrible at defense. Irving is an abomination.
As a unit, especially if they are playing the ghost of DeAndre Jordan? This gonna be good!
What sort of package even offer that the Rockets could deem satisfactory enough to accept that doesn't also decimate their depth?
I would have him 3rd or 4th (but I am biased). The Dream is an obvious 1, but I think Moses and maybe Hayes have arguments to be up there. If he stayed a few more years then maybe he could pass them, but Moses at least made a Finals.
I think it’s not possible without decimating their depth. But I do think they might still go through with it. Even though I think the 76ers are the most likely destination, if he indeed leaves.
There's only one ball, don't see how Irving, Harden and Durant co-exist, they're all iso players. Are Kyrie/Harden really going to be content standing in the corner watching Durant go one on one?
Love the deals the Bucks made but it's all pointless unless Bud starts shortening his rotations during the playoffs.
Why are OKC torpedoing their team? They made the playoffs last year, why not run it back or try to get another piece? When did winning stop being important.
Miami have been quiet.
Love the deals the Bucks made but it's all pointless unless Bud starts shortening his rotations during the playoffs.
Why are OKC torpedoing their team? They made the playoffs last year, why not run it back or try to get another piece? When did winning stop being important.
Miami have been quiet.
I think Presti just did his version of the "Process", but he did it in one calendar year. They were not going anywhere this year with Chris Paul, but the assets they got, plus SGA and the other young guys will set them up for a while if Presti nails the picks. I wonder if Adams gets dealt as well?
Harden is top 2 for me, he would have likely had at least one finals appearance, maybe even a chip, if he didn't have to compete against a super team for several years
Why do you say they would have done nothing with Paul this year? He got them to the playoffs last year quite easily. Not convinced with his tanking business especially when you have a good team.
I guess OKC will draft some good players who they will then trade away for more picks and so on and so on.
I guess they could make the playoffs, but are they going to be able to get past the Lakers/Clippers/Nuggets or even the Mavs or Jazz? OKC has little chance to attract FA's, so Presti needs to rebuild via the draft and with the draft capital he is building he has the chance to do so, and to do so quickly.
I would make the same argument for Malone. In 81 (the year he made it to the finals) he averaged 27 and 15 and had to go through:
Lakers (Peak Kareem, 2nd year?? Magic)
Spurs (Iceman!!!)
Kings (Don't remember anyone from this team)
Before losing to THE super team of the era in the Celtics (Bird,McHale,Parrish,Maxwell)
Anyways, this is just my opinion and I admit it is biased by my not liking Harden's game.
Why not try and get better? They could have put something together and gone after Beal or Derozan next week and try to compete.
Sure, but adding another guard is not going to make the difference. The top 3 scorers for OKC were 3 guards, so if you kept Schroeder and added Beal or Derozen then what? Even if you replace Schroeder with Beal or Derozen what does that get you? Paul and SGA are at their best with the ball in their hands, as are Beal and DeRozen, so how will it work? My guess is that Presti took a look at the Western conference and realized there was nothing he could do to catch up to the top teams and so he sacrificed next year for the opportunity to build something long term.
Harden, Kyrie, KD, quite simply would not work. Not only would all 3 of them together not work but then how do you fit in thr remaining pieces?
The much smarter move which sadly won’t happen would be trading Kyrie and something else for Harden.
Kyrie is not THAT guy and he is very overrated along with being and absolute head ache of a player . Harden and KD though.... that would be like PB&J and they would still have other great pieces around them.
Saying all that I would love to see Harden leave Houston regardless of where it is he goes.
The much smarter move which sadly won’t happen would be trading Kyrie and something else for Harden.
Kyrie is not THAT guy and he is very overrated along with being and absolute head ache of a player . Harden and KD though.... that would be like PB&J and they would still have other great pieces around them.
Saying all that I would love to see Harden leave Houston regardless of where it is he goes.
It wasn't that easy really. We won a lot of close games and had unbelievable luck with the health of Gallo and Paul. I wouldn't bank on either happening again. Presti thinks the smart bet is to tank and set up a team that can compete for 10 years, not run it back and compete for one year. I think it's the better decision.
Kyrie shot the game winning shot in a Finals G7. He is that guy, if you can keep him from going off mentally.
Proven more than Harden in the play-offs anyway.
I love my basketball and follow it a lot but obviously there are a lot of people on here a lot more knowledgable than me so I have a question!
I know the Warriors had a big downturn last season following a longish period of success but were they really as bad as the position they ended up in?
Is there an element with certain teams of downing tools towards the end, if a playoff place is very remote to secure a better draft pick?
Or has the lottery system stopped that happening?
I know the Warriors had a big downturn last season following a longish period of success but were they really as bad as the position they ended up in?
Is there an element with certain teams of downing tools towards the end, if a playoff place is very remote to secure a better draft pick?
Or has the lottery system stopped that happening?
I can't see Harden ending up in Brooklyn and actually making their team better. What will the Nets give up - Levert, Dinwiddie, Allen and a few FRPs? Not even sure that's a good deal for Houston, not sure what they would surround their Big 3 with and not sure that a trio of Harden, KD and Kyrie would work anyway.
Don't know by heart where they ended up but they were missing both Thompson and Curry for the better part of the season. Haven't seen any of their games but I'm sure they didn't mind ending up near the bottom of the pile. The odds of landing the top pick have been straightened out a few years ago to discourage tanking (i.e. losing games on purpose) so right now it doesn't matter that much anymore whether you finish last or fifth last. They have the second pick tonight and might well end up with James Wiseman.
He also went to the Celtics to be “the man” and the Celtics played better and went further without him in the team.
Same thing with the nets last season they were better without him.
Not to mention he’s just toxic in a locker room environment.
He is a #2 option at best but I think Harden and KD would mesh a lot better then with Kyrie.
Agree on Kyrie - it's easy to claim playoff pedigree when you're riding LeBron's coattails. There's no way Kyrie could take Rockets to the places they've taken in a direct swap. I'd say the exact same about Davis and Giannis.....
But why? What difference does it make if they go out in the first round or perhaps edge out a 4-3 and then get beaten in the second round? They would have to move a lot of the picks they own for Beal. DeRozan would maybe add 4 regular season wins and not help at all in the playoffs. They will also lose Gallinari who was very important to them last year.
All of the moves Presti made over last 18 months were extremely good. Somehow he turned Westbrook into three first round picks (potentially quite good picks too) and two swaps with a team that will suck, and Rubio with Oubre on top of that. The plan now is to see how those picks pan out and then build a team that is maybe a top one in 2023-25. There is literally no point in trying to win 45 games with no upside and go out in the playoffs.
Their collection is much less impressive than OKC because most of those will likely be late first round. If Giannis stays then none of the Bucks picks will be higher than 24th other than for injuries. Lakers will remain relevant event after LeBron because of AD.
Plus they seem to want to compete and make play-offs so their own picks won't be that great.
EDIT: Although they did just trade Jrue so maybe they're going to try and get a high pick again.
Trust me as a fan of a team that has won 45 games once since 2000, there's huge upside.
What, no love for Otis??? (chuckles)
I love me some Otis Thorpe! I used to alternate between the Rockets and Cavs (Mark Price!) back in the day on Tecmo Basketball.
As an aside, can I get some consensus around Price being one of the most underrated players in NBA history? If his knees hadn't gone he would have been a fringe HoFer. Hell, he would be insane in the current NBA. Loved that guy.