NBA 2019-2020

ZDwyr said:
:(:( I don't want to do that for us or Russ. Sending him to Orlando would be too cruel.
Click to expand...

I think moving him your best hope. That deal is probably the best on the list and I don't think Orlando agrees to it. Just throwing out possibilities. Here's how I think the west looks next season:

contenders as of right now
clippers
lakers
jazz
nuggets

contenders if they get a couple breaks
trail blazers
rockets

solid playoff teams
spurs

thats 7 spots gone right there. so for the last spot you have these teams

contenders for the last spot
warriors
kings
mavericks
pelicans

teams that should be improved but not ready to make the playoffs
grizzlies
suns
timberwolves


the thunder are not only in the last group as far as talent, they are the only one trending down. blow it up and rebuild
 
Oh I agree that he should be traded. I just don't want to send him to the wasteland of Orlando. I think your view of him as an asset is slightly too negative, too. I think the situation is a bad one and he doesn't have a lot of value, but I am also sure there's a GM or two out there that will want him.
 
ZDwyr said:
Oh I agree that he should be traded. I just don't want to send him to the wasteland of Orlando. I think your view of him as an asset is slightly too negative, too. I think the situation is a bad one and he doesn't have a lot of value, but I am also sure there's a GM or two out there that will want him.
Click to expand...

The problem is his contract. The timing means no one has space to take him outright and most of the players who have high salaries to match are too good to be traded for Westbrook. You need to perfect storm of positional need, bad contracts to match and a team on the verge of contention. Even Orlando Detroit and Minnesota dont fit the last criteria and Houston would dismantle their team to have 3 ball dominant guards. The best fit is Miami but they'd lose all their flexibility and it's not like it makes them better than Philly or Milwaukee.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
he is over 30 and not a super star. Very goodbut has too many poor shooting nights to be a superstar.

Are you from Toronto? If not you dont understand how irrelevant the Raptors have been.

This was a chance at sustained success. A chance to buck the trend of every good player leaving. We are a huge city with a track record of very few star players across all sports even hockey!

It is very disheartening to have another play leave. He won a championship, was treated perfectly by our managemet, medical staff and fans. If this doesnt get a superstar to stay, nothing will.
Click to expand...
You need to see that we're starting to move away from the big city that doesn't succeed. Ever since Leiweke came in and changed things for all MLSE teams, all sports teams have started to improve in the city. The Blue Jays made it to two ALCS series; the Raptors became a consistent playoff team in the past several years, winning one Championship; the Maple Leafs also became a consistent playoff team and were able to retain star talent in their team as well as obtain one; TFC won everything in 2017 and acquired star-calibre players.

We are improving. We are on the up. Just because Kawhi leaves doesn't mean that we're some small market.

Finally, I wouldn't discount Lowry like that if I were you.
 
What I liked about Michael Jordan? He was very loyal to Chicago. Larry Bird was loyal to the Celtics and Magic Johnson to the Lakers.

These days, players keep moving between teams. I understand why; some want to win championships for the first time (Lebron/Durant), and some want to be the leaders of title-winning teams (Kawhi and now Durant). But, it's a little too much at this stage.

The big stars are no longer really attached to teams, with the exception maybe of Curry, Thompson and D. Green.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
What I liked about Michael Jordan? He was very loyal to Chicago. Larry Bird was loyal to the Celtics and Magic Johnson to the Lakers.

These days, players keep moving between teams. I understand why; some want to win championships for the first time (Lebron/Durant), and some want to be the leaders of title-winning teams (Kawhi and now Durant). But, it's a little too much at this stage.

The big stars are no longer really attached to teams, with the exception maybe of Curry, Thompson and D. Green.
Click to expand...

Dirk, Lillard, Wade, Westbrook and Duncan. There are some others. The heightened player movement can be tough as a fan at times though.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
he is over 30 and not a super star. Very goodbut has too many poor shooting nights to be a superstar.

Are you from Toronto? If not you dont understand how irrelevant the Raptors have been.

This was a chance at sustained success. A chance to buck the trend of every good player leaving. We are a huge city with a track record of very few star players across all sports even hockey!

It is very disheartening to have another play leave. He won a championship, was treated perfectly by our managemet, medical staff and fans. If this doesnt get a superstar to stay, nothing will.
Click to expand...
Raptors could have bucked that trend but specifically chose not to when they traded a California-born all-star who wanted to retire a Raptor legend for a chip. It was the right move. Kawhi is from California and his stated aim was to return home. He was always going back to LA. And he didn't choose a huge-market team. He chose the Clippers... California's third team.

And Lowry is one of the reasons the Raptors have been relevant over the past 4-5 years. You should stop talking shit about him.
 
How will the Lakers line up next season then?

LeBron, Davis, Cousins, Green, Rondo

Bench: Kuzma, McGee, Dudley, KCP, Cook

Isn’t that just really solid? What are they lacking?
 
A good point guard. LeBron will be managed a lot I expect.
 
simonhch said:
How will the Lakers line up next season then?

LeBron, Davis, Cousins, Green, Rondo

Bench: Kuzma, McGee, Dudley, KCP, Cook

Isn’t that just really solid? What are they lacking?
Click to expand...
Shooting, FT shooting, perimeter defense.
 
Rondo shouldn't be anywhere near the starting five.
 
It’s not a bad team but could use some extra shooting. I bet Bullock would have still been with them if it hadn’t taken so long to learn Kawhi’s decision.

Really the only good shooters in the entire team are Green and Cook.

I think Clippers have a better depth chart because of flexibility. They have several shooters, a lot of young players, great defenders. They lack a power forward though but still have mid level exception to sign one. Maybe Marcus Morris for a year? Edit: signed with Spurs.
 
Seems like Miami are favorites to get Westbrook. They can make salaries work but they can’t really attach many picks (2025 is the earliest one they can trade and they’d need to lift protections on their 2023 pick to do that). They can offer pick swaps but it’s tricky. They don’t really have much young talent to send to OKC, only Winslow, Adebayo and Herro and none of them are really that exciting.

For OKC this may be about getting rid of Westbrook’s deal more than anything.
 
Sarni said:
Seems like Miami are favorites to get Westbrook. They can make salaries work but they can’t really attach many picks (2025 is the earliest one they can trade and they’d need to lift protections on their 2023 pick to do that). They can offer pick swaps but it’s tricky. They don’t really have much young talent to send to OKC, only Winslow, Adebayo and Herro and none of them are really that exciting.

For OKC this may be about getting rid of Westbrook’s deal more than anything.
Click to expand...

They shouldn't offer anything of value. Westbrook is a negative asset. A second or two is it.
 
Eboue said:
he comes with the worst or second worst contract in the league. ask yourself this, if he was a free agent would any team give him that contract? even close to that contract? the answer is no, so him and his contract are a negative asset
Click to expand...
I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong but he only got that much since he resigned with the team he was playing for correct? Russ is a max player, I know he's not everyone's cup of tea but if Kris Middleton and Hassan Whiteside are max players then so is Russ.
 
freeurmind said:
I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong but he only got that much since he resigned with the team he was playing for correct? Russ is a max player, I know he's not everyone's cup of tea but if Kris Middleton and Hassan Whiteside are max players then so is Russ.
Click to expand...

its irrelevant why he has the contract, hes got it now. hes a top 30 or 40 player in the league with a top 1-2 contract right now. thats negative value.

also different players with different accolades and service time have different max numbers. middleton and whiteside dont make the same amount as westbrook
 
Eboue said:
its irrelevant why he has the contract, hes got it now. hes a top 30 or 40 player in the league with a top 1-2 contract right now. thats negative value.

also different players with different accolades and service time have different max numbers. middleton and whiteside dont make the same amount as westbrook
Click to expand...
But you can't always just trade purely for value though. If they trade for Westbrook, they will likely win alot more games and with Butler be a definite contender in the East which should be their objective. Is he overpaid relative to the league? Probably. Still doesn't mean they shouldnt trade for him.
 
Eboue said:
I think moving him your best hope. That deal is probably the best on the list and I don't think Orlando agrees to it. Just throwing out possibilities. Here's how I think the west looks next season:

contenders as of right now
clippers
lakers
jazz
nuggets

contenders if they get a couple breaks
trail blazers
rockets

solid playoff teams
spurs

thats 7 spots gone right there. so for the last spot you have these teams

contenders for the last spot
warriors
kings
mavericks
pelicans

teams that should be improved but not ready to make the playoffs
grizzlies
suns
timberwolves


the thunder are not only in the last group as far as talent, they are the only one trending down. blow it up and rebuild
Click to expand...

How are the Warriors behind Spurs? Or Trail Blazers? Even with the KD-era over, they should still be up there reasonably quite comfortably, need to additions for serious contending mind, but the cores still good to go far.
 
Zen said:
How are the Warriors behind Spurs? Or Trail Blazers? Even with the KD-era over, they should still be up there reasonably quite comfortably, need to additions for serious contending mind, but the cores still good to go far.
Click to expand...
When is Klay due back?
 
freeurmind said:
But you can't always just trade purely for value though. If they trade for Westbrook, they will likely win alot more games and with Butler be a definite contender in the East which should be their objective. Is he overpaid relative to the league? Probably. Still doesn't mean they shouldnt trade for him.
Click to expand...

because westbrooks contract extends so far into the future that it prevents them from getting top free agents down the line. miamis biggest advantage is recruiting free agents. if they get westbrook they are locking in a team that isnt a contender until 2023. with westbrook and butler and barely any draft picks they will make conference finals at best. then in the summer of 2023 both of those guys are free agents and 34 years old.
 
Zen said:
How are the Warriors behind Spurs? Or Trail Blazers? Even with the KD-era over, they should still be up there reasonably quite comfortably, need to additions for serious contending mind, but the cores still good to go far.
Click to expand...

Thompson is out for a long time. Look at their roster, it's not very good right now.
 
Eboue said:
because westbrooks contract extends so far into the future that it prevents them from getting top free agents down the line. miamis biggest advantage is recruiting free agents. if they get westbrook they are locking in a team that isnt a contender until 2023. with westbrook and butler and barely any draft picks they will make conference finals at best. then in the summer of 2023 both of those guys are free agents and 34 years old.
Click to expand...
I think a Westbrook and Butler pairing can challenge anything in the East next year until KD is healthy. I'd send Dragic, Waiters, a pick swap and 2 2nd rounders to OKC for Russ. Theyre looking to move him so I dont think the price needs to be too high.
 
Westbrook's contract is only worth it if the Thunder have a championship caliber team aroun him, in that case they can justifiably be in the luxury tax. Currently Westbrook and Wiggins(sorry to bring his name again) are massive weights on their teams ankle and to equal measure even though Westbrook is far better, there is nothing you can do with them in the team.
 
freeurmind said:
I think a Westbrook and Butler pairing can challenge anything in the East next year until KD is healthy. I'd send Dragic, Waiters, a pick swap and 2 2nd rounders to OKC for Russ. Theyre looking to move him so I dont think the price needs to be too high.
Click to expand...

How is this team going to beat Milwaukee or Philly?

Westbrook
Herro
Butler
Jones
Winslow
Adebayo
Johnson
Leonard
 
JPRouve said:
Westbrook's contract is only worth it if the Thunder have a championship caliber team aroun him, in that case they can justifiably be in the luxury tax. Currently Westbrook and Wiggins(sorry to bring his name again) are massive weights on their teams ankle and to equal measure even though Westbrook is far better, there is nothing you can do with them in the team.
Click to expand...
I honestly think this is just a word salad designed to insult Westbrook by comparing him to Wiggins.
 
Eboue said:
How is this team going to beat Milwaukee or Philly?

Westbrook
Herro
Butler
Jones
Winslow
Adebayo
Johnson
Leonard
Click to expand...
Milwaukee lost Brogdon, their 2nd best player imo and Philly lost Butler their 2nd best player imo. With that squad Miami would def have a chance against either of those teams.
 
freeurmind said:
Milwaukee lost Brogdon, their 2nd best player imo and Philly lost Butler their 2nd best player imo. With that squad Miami would def have a chance against either of those teams.
Click to expand...

Philly gained Richardson and Horford though and Milwaukee was 21 games better last year. I'd bet a good amount of money that both of those teams finish ahead of the Heat.
 
freeurmind said:
Milwaukee lost Brogdon, their 2nd best player imo and Philly lost Butler their 2nd best player imo. With that squad Miami would def have a chance against either of those teams.
Click to expand...
Brogdon was their 4th or 5th best player. And it's not like Philly lost Butler without any replacement.

Miami have no chance against either. With or without Westbrook.
 
freeurmind said:
I honestly think this is just a word salad designed to insult Westbrook by comparing him to Wiggins.
Click to expand...

Designed to insult Westbrook?:lol:

No, it's about a player having a contract that doesn't match with the state of his team, it has little to do with Westbrook but the value of his contract for his team within the cap system.
 
Eboue said:
Philly gained Richardson and Horford though and Milwaukee was 21 games better last year. I'd bet a good amount of money that both of those teams finish ahead of the Heat.
Click to expand...

Scarecrow said:
Brogdon was their 4th or 5th best player. And it's not like Philly lost Butler without any replacement.

Miami have no chance against either. With or without Westbrook.
Click to expand...
Well it's all a moot point until the trade is made, if it is made. If Oladipo can get healthy and Brogon stays healthy, Indiana will be my pick to come out of the East next year if no more moves are made. Middleton and Beldsoe showed who they are against Toronto, brogdon coming off the injury was better than both. When healthy, he's clearly their second best player imo.
 
Scarecrow said:
Brogdon was their 4th or 5th best player. And it's not like Philly lost Butler without any replacement.

Miami have no chance against either. With or without Westbrook.
Click to expand...

True, but they have a better chance with him. He could quite easily be the best player on the floor in a series against Philly and win them a round. Milwaukee is a different beast though.
 
ZDwyr said:
True, but they have a better chance with him. He could quite easily be the best player on the floor in a series against Philly and win them a round. Milwaukee is a different beast though.
Click to expand...

Do you think that Miami would be a better team than Oklahoma were with Paul George?
 
Eboue said:
he comes with the worst or second worst contract in the league. ask yourself this, if he was a free agent would any team give him that contract? even close to that contract? the answer is no, so him and his contract are a negative asset
Click to expand...

You think he's worse than Wall, CP3 and Wiggins?

He's averaging 27-9-10 over the past 5 seasons, been all-NBA in 8 of the past nine and missed 14 games in the past 4.
 
JPRouve said:
Do you think that Miami would be a better team than Oklahoma were with Paul George?
Click to expand...

No way. Thunder were 18 games over .500 when George was healthy and would have finished high in the West.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.