Nani | Contract & Transfer talk

[YzWayne]

I wonder why noone ask LVG about Nani and his displays and if he have him in mind for next season in one of the press-conferences. Is it to hard for English journalist ask good question and not repeating same questions week after week (injuries, Rooney, how are players adapting to new system, when we will click).

I think it is still too earlier to judge on all the players out on loan, yes Nani is on fire right now but it is not the time to worry about his performances. Why would LVG care much about Nani out on loan when Falcao on loan to us is not firing yet. I believe LVG should be more concern about Falcao than Nani.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Actually, Falcao's a good one to bring up. I assume we are paying his wages, so doesn't make sense that I would assume we should pay Nani's wages. So it's quite possible I'm talking balls here!

It's weird actually. With all the chatter about transfer fees, you very rarely hear any concrete info about how wages are structured in a loan deal.

Well the Falcao deal purely benefits us, or at least, it fecking should be, so I guess that's the difference. Nani going there was also I believe to benefit us because it made getting Rojo off Sporting considerably either.

I guess it all just depends on how the clubs see the benefits, really. I mean I can't imagine we just sent Hernandez to Real for free because it's clearly a loan that benefits them and is of no real benefit to us.

 

[togg]

Dare I say that the Portugese League is easier or less competitive than the Premier League. It's probably how he has got his confidence back?

 

[Nighteyes]

Dare I say that the Portugese League is easier or less competitive than the Premier League. It's probably how he has got his confidence back?

Or maybe that he is injury free and starting regularly instead of watching Valencia stink up the place game after game.

I'd prefer an in form Nani to Mata. Hope we get him back.

 

[ivaldo]

It's as if some of you never really watched him....

So he works hard as say Valencia or di maria does? Its tricky to comprehend I know but if you look very, very closely at no point do I imply he's a lazy bastard.

 

[Sly]

I thought was just them getting giddy about a loan player doing well for them. I always assumed that loanees wages were covered by the club that loans them out. Could be wrong, though. I know feck all about exactly how these deals are structured. You never really hear about the details.

I suppose it depends on the kind of player you loan, the type of club you do the deal with and the deal structure in terms of loan fees. Speaking from my club experience and using two player loan deals from last year as example we loaned Zakaria Labyad to Vitesse for two years and since we did a cut price on the loan fee to get rid of him and his hefty wage, they pay 100% his wages. On João Mário's case, he was a highly rated player from our academy who needed more experience than just playing for our B team, so we loaned him to a top division club and helped them with a percentage since they couldn't afford all his wages. Was a good deal since he evolved, is now a starter in our team and a portuguese internacional. About the details, since we are a PLC, we have to send all the values of the deals to the CMVM Lisbon stock exchange. That why we know we are paying 0% of Nani's wages and you are paying Rojo in three payments (10 millions up front, and two 5 million payments in December 2014 and July 2015) and 20% if you sell Rojo for more than 23 million euros.

 

[Dans]

Dare I say that the Portugese League is easier or less competitive than the Premier League. It's probably how he has got his confidence back?

There's probably a lot more space and time on the ball too (i.e. the "easier" as you mention).

In English football a player has so very little time on the ball, so much so that if your team mates are not finding space and you are not aware of what's around you quickly enough, you will be giving the ball away. I think it's harder in our league than any other for the skillful player to succeed unless he's blessed with Messi-esque quick feet and thinking.

 

[Sly]

Dare I say that the Portugese League is easier or less competitive than the Premier League. It's probably how he has got his confidence back?

You are obviously right but he has been doing very well in the big games. Like i said against Porto, Benfica, Chelsea and Schalke he has been one of the best. I don't think it's just a matter of being in an easier league (although it obviously helps), but it's a question of having the managers trust who knows him well and how to use him (he has plenty of tactical freedom and is the first player to create on the ball), the sequence of games that he has been playing and the fact that he is happier because things are going well (at Sporting and in the national team). All these factors count in his impressive form and current confidence.

 

[Dans]

You are obviously right but he has been doing very well in the big games. Like i said against Porto, Benfica, Chelsea and Schalke he has been one of the best. I don't think it's just a matter of being in an easier league (although it obviously helps), but it's a question of having the managers trust who knows him well and how to use him (he has plenty of tactical freedom and is the first player to create on the ball), the sequence of games that he has been playing and the fact that he is happier because things are going well (at Sporting and in the national team). All these factors count in his impressive form and current confidence.

He's the focal point at Sporting isn't he? The star player. At United he was one of many. I think some players need to feel that they are the main man before they kick into that higher gear and get the confidence to do so. If he comes back he still won't be the main man. He seems to be a fragile type who needs encouragement to bring the best out of him at the same time as perhaps being unable to handle criticism when playing poorly.

 

[Sly]

He's the focal point at Sporting isn't he? The star player. At United he was one of many. I think some players need to feel that they are the main man before they kick into that higher gear and get the confidence to do so. If he comes back he still won't be the main man. He seems to be a fragile type who needs encouragement to bring the best out of him at the same time as perhaps being unable to handle criticism when playing poorly.

Yes you are absolutely right. At Sporting he is the first the players look up to (because of reputation), most of the passing in the offensive goes to or through him, he takes the free kicks, gives pointers to the teammates (only one with real Champions League experience), guess he feels really important. It's natural, we don't have United's star studded squad or pedigree, so everyone has more patience with him when things go wrong. The fans and his teammates. The run of games and the fact that the manager knows how to use him (tactical freedom) help him to stabilize mentally.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There's probably a lot more space and time on the ball too (i.e. the "easier" as you mention).

In English football a player has so very little time on the ball, so much so that if your team mates are not finding space and you are not aware of what's around you quickly enough, you will be giving the ball away. I think it's harder in our league than any other for the skillful player to succeed unless he's blessed with Messi-esque quick feet and thinking.

Plus he won't get the protection from referees in England that he gets in Portugal. Always thought he was a different player before/after that cowardly assault from Carragher. Must be a weight off his mind playing in a league where he knows that defenders can't get away with persistently kicking lumps out of him.

 

[Sly]

On another note, i don't really know what is going on in terms of physical preparation and medical staff at United. I just can't understand how a player who spent two years struggling with injuries, is playing so many consecutive games. Not only the league but also the portuguese cup and the champions league. He played in ALL the games. Our medical department and physios have very good reputation but i don't really understand what's going on at United with so many injuries.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

On another note, i don't really know what is going on in terms of physical preparation and medical staff at United. I just can't understand how a player who spent two years struggling with injuries, is playing so many consecutive games. Not only the league but also the portuguese cup and the champions league. He played in ALL the games. Our medical department and physios have very good reputation but i don't really understand what's going on at United with so many injuries.

That's probably related to my previous post. It's a much more physical league, with flair players getting less protection. No doubt that physicality translates to the training pitch too.

Plus I think there's a massive psychological element with injuries. Players that really want to get out there and play will be far more likely to shake off a niggle then those who are unhappy, for whatever reason. Van Persie's injury record under Moyes vs Van Gaal being a case in point.

 

[ipodnani]

Not overly surprising that Nani is delivering back at Sporting, where he is clearly a big fish in a small pond. There's no questioning his talent, however there's definitely more of a question over his mentality and ultimately that has cost him.

It may be that he could come back to United and do a job but clearly LVG thought he was surplus to requirements and it's difficult to see that changing, particularly given the big-money purchase of Di Maria. I do feel a little bit of sympathy for Nani but it isn't as if he didn't have his chances at United to produce consistently. People will point to that season (either 2009/2010 or 2010/2011) where he was arguably our best player but he didn't produce an awful lot for the club since.

 

[Sly]

That's probably related to my previous post. It's a much more physical league, with flair players getting less protection. No doubt that physicality translates to the training pitch too.

Plus I think there's a massive psychological element with injuries. Players that really want to get out there and play will be far more likely to shake off a niggle then those who are unhappy, for whatever reason. Van Persie's injury record under Moyes vs Van Gaal being a case in point.

I understand your point but it can't just be that. We had a very demanding start of season (it's only November and we already played Porto twice, Benfica once, Chelsea once and Schalke twice) and we have played alot of high intensity and physically demanding matches. And he is hanging on very well and rarely gets subbed.

About the second part of your post, i think you may be right. I don't really have the knowledge regarding those aspects but it makes sense.

 

[Gerald G]

Good he is playing well. Now it will be easier to shift him in the summer window. Still a farce that we are playing all his wages.

 

[Walrus]

It was said on the previous pages - Nani is a confidence player. Yes he will thrive being the main man and more importantly, playing every week.

Fergie put a good section on it in his book - that some players (like Solskjaer) were able to sit on a bench for 75 minutes and analyse the opposition, look for weaknesses, then get subbed on and do brilliantly.
There are plenty of players who are the opposite though, and you only get the best out of them when they play every game.

Nani, Welbeck and Kagawa are all players I would put into that catergory that they need regular matchtime to really perform. Notably, all have left the club, all are now first choice for their respective teams, and all are performing better than they have done at United. It isnt a coincidence, nor is it rocket science.

It was always a travesty that Nani had to sit on the bench while we endured the likes of Valencia and Young, week in week out. Then he gets one game after sitting out for a month, he doesnt perform and doesnt get another chance.

Im sure LVG is clever enough to realise this, so if we do bring Nani back (which I hope we do) next season, he needs to be playing regularly. In a 4-3-3 I cant think of that many better options than Nani to play out wide, certainly not ones that would be easily available.

 

[Sylar]

As frustrating as he was for us at times, the one thing he never did was hide. He would ask for the ball, would try things and yes it wouldnt always work, but at least it wouldnt stop him from trying. Also, I agree with a previous post, its a myth he doesnt track back. Seen him track back plenty of times.

After the Madrid match a couple of years ago, I remember we played Chelsea in the FA Cup next match. First half, he was fantastic until his injury. Its such a shame for him as I really think he has a lot more to offer us. Maybe for him (and us) the best thing would be a break from each other (like hes got now).

Still, for me,, rather him than Young or Valencia

 

[Nighteyes]

As frustrating as he was for us at times, the one thing he never did was hide. He would ask for the ball, would try things and yes it wouldnt always work, but at least it wouldnt stop him from trying. Also, I agree with a previous post, its a myth he doesnt track back. Seen him track back plenty of times.

That's what I like about him and a quality I appreciate in attacking players in general. Of course, this also means that when he's not in form he's likely to look horrific but I'd rather that than players who hide.

 

[Welsh Wonder]

That's what I like about him and a quality I appreciate in attacking players in general. Of course, this also means that when he's not in form he's likely to look horrific but I'd rather that than players who hide.

The 'Wayne Rooney' syndrome.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Get him back in January if he continues to perform as he's been doing since his arrival at Sporting. I mean, at the moment, if Van Gaal continues to play with wingers, we only have two top wingers in Januzaj and Di Maria, and the latter hasn't really performed that well since being moved from centre midfield.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Get him back in January if he continues to perform as he's been doing since his arrival at Sporting. I mean, at the moment, if Van Gaal continues to play with wingers, we only have two top wingers in Januzaj and Di Maria, and the latter hasn't really performed that well since being moved from centre midfield.

I'd agree with that. Can only see a very minor potential downside (make him slightly less valuable to sell on) but an awful lot of potential upside. Especially if he can help get us across the line in the race for the CL slots.

 

[Sly]

Get him back in January if he continues to perform as he's been doing since his arrival at Sporting. I mean, at the moment, if Van Gaal continues to play with wingers, we only have two top wingers in Januzaj and Di Maria, and the latter hasn't really performed that well since being moved from centre midfield.

Not going to happen. Nani himself said that he's staying till the end of the season. The conditions stipulate a season long loan and to recall him would be a breach of the contract terms and we would have to be compensated. United will probably invest heavily again in January and Nani probably won't be a priority.

http://www.abola.pt/nnh/ver.aspx?id=509545

Basically says that United thought about bringing him back because of the good performances but Sporting isn´t worried because the loan deal is valid until the end of season with no recall clauses.

 

[Shimo]

Don't agree with Nani needing to be the main man but, most definitely needs the confidence of the manager and to be playing regularly to be effective. More than the Jamie Carragher tackle, I think what tore his confidence up more than anything was SAF publicly blaming him for the loss against Chelsea in the cup game. When he lost the ball at Chelsea's box and then a couple minutes later they scored the winner. He was IMO, very good in that game yet SAF chose to single him out for the loss.

Towards the end of that season even when Valencia was playing very poor, Nani just did not get a chance. He'd do brilliantly I think in this team because he won't have pressure on performing - not with so many others ahead of him. He'll have a lot more freedom with the likes of ADM on the pitch as well as a lot more players he'd be able to link up with rather than just having to create on his own. That coupled with the fact he is the one player that is willing to put the early cross in rather than get all the way to the end line before smashing a cross in - he'd be a real asset.

That all said I don't see LVG giving him a chance - he did his evaluation and he wasn't a player for him, so no matter how well he does, LVG will be looking elsewhere, which is a shame but, not the end of the world.

 

[berbatrick]

Plus he won't get the protection from referees in England that he gets in Portugal. Always thought he was a different player before/after that cowardly assault from Carragher. Must be a weight off his mind playing in a league where he knows that defenders can't get away with persistently kicking lumps out of him.

He came back from that Carragher injury in average form (though still producing his goal/assist numbers)
But he started the next season (2011/12) absolutely on fire. That goal vs City, a chip in the 8-2 vs Arsenal, assists and goals vs Bolton, and an absolute masterclass hammering Chelsea 3-1 (scored a wondergoal, won a penalty, tortured Ashley Cole and should have had a few assists if the finishing was better)
By some distance his best performance in a United shirt, perhaps in any shirt.

He was for some reason increasingly marginalised after the 6-1 loss to City as went more defensive, more back-to-basics, in general more Young-and-Valencia. (This was Valencia's POTY season, Nani still produced more goals and more assists over the season despite being on the bench often)
By 2012-13 for some reason Valencia-Young was entrenched and with Kagawa and RvP's arrival, Kagawa and Welbeck entered the competition for the wing spots.
Then, after a really good performance vs Chelsea in that League Cup game (including another great solo goal) he was blamed for a defeat caused by us taking off our best player (Anderson) for Tunniclife (losing control of the game), and having two 18-year olds, one of whom made a terrible mistake in the 93rd minute (having already given away a stupid penalty)...SAF had to defend the kids but he picked on Nani who had given the ball away when alone in the opposition half more than a minute before they scored. IMO really bad management especially given that he knew Nani's personality pretty well by now.
His next big start was virtually the Madrid game at OT, assist and then Cuniyt Cakir.



Overall, I think a series of injuries (rather than one nasty one) affected his form, as did mismanagement (losing his manager's trust) and finally, some pretty rotten luck.

 

[Beachryan]

Fergie lost faith in him and did what Fergie does when that happens: cold shoulder.

Nani is quite clearly a player that needs the old 'arm around him' treatment, but for whatever reason Fergie preferred Valencia/Park/40 year old Giggs/Ashley Young/Training cones to Nani.

He looks to have kept his fitness up, and has all the skills to be an excellent winger. But needs a manager who believes in him. I could see LVG being that man. Let's be honest, he's still our best option if we're going to play a right winger.

 

[ottosec]

I think he was sent out this season because at the start of the season we were using a wingerless tactic and unlike Young and Valencia, although he's clearly better than both, he couldn't play any other role at an acceptable level that fitted the system we were using then.

Great to see him do well and enjoying his football again. He should have no problem finding a very good club in the summer, as I don't think United is suited for him.

 

[Jaytay]

Van Gaal said the only position available for Nani was to play striker, he said the same thing to Zaha too. Which is strange because he didn't give them a chance to play in their natural position. Nani has said he will come back if United want him, if they want to sell him he will listen to offers. Either way he is open to whatever. Whereas Hernandez and Cleverley want to leave even if their loan move is not made permanent.

 

[Chicharito_]

Van Gaal said the only position available for Nani was to play striker, he said the same thing to Zaha too. Which is strange because he didn't give them a chance to play in their natural position. Nani has said he will come back if United want him, if they want to sell him he will listen to offers. Either way he is open to whatever. Whereas Hernandez and Cleverley want to leave even if their loan move is not made permanent.

He was saying that when we were operating the 3 at the back with wingbacks, recently he has gone to 4-2-3-1 with wingers and there will be a place for him in that system.

 

[waza7111]

Some Nani stats for the past three league seasons:

11/12
Appearances: 24
Goals: 8
Assists: 10

12/13
Appearances: 11
Goals: 2
Assists: 1

13/14
Appearances: 11
Goals: 0
Assists: 0

It started to go wrong for him in the 12/13 season. He was very good in the seasons before that, scoring and assisting a lot of goals. But in 12/13 I think he had a lot of injuries and Sir Alex didn't trust him after the mistake against Chelsea in the League Cup. He also had a lot more competition for his place from Kagawa, Valencia, Young, Welbeck and Giggs.

 

[United22]

If we go to the 4-1-2-1-2 diamond then we won't really have any space to play him

 

[Raoul]

If he's in good form, we could use him. He would add a dimension and compliment the likes of Di Maria.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

Can't see him returning to us regardless of how he performs. His number is up with senior figures in the club I believe.

 

[SirBobbysCombover]

ButOTE="Raoul, post: 16679956, member: 15"]If he's in good form, we could use him. He would add a dimension and compliment the likes of Di Maria.[/QUofEcoursethat was the problem before, why make the save mistake twice, he would have to be giving a starting birth every week to continue that form, then of course it's the same old question about the lads mentality. without doubt one of the most naturally gifted players I have witnessed, I bet bottom dollar he is an absolute beast in training, match day however is a complete yo-yo affair sadly.

 

[royboy16]

Glad to hear he's doing well. But as much as I wanted him to succeed at United, I think that ship has sailed.

I wonder if there is any chance he could stay at Sporting?

I think so too.

Maybe he's trying that little bit harder so that Sporting will sign him up and he can play his football at home.

 

[2 man midfield]

I think, or hope that in what is an easier league Nani can get his confidence back again. It's not that he can only excel there, he's done it for us in the PL before. Hopefully he just needs reminding (and United also for that matter) that when played more than 5 times a season sporadically he's a bloody good player.

 

[Raven Blade]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...in-lisbon-during-his-loan-spell-with-sporting

Decent summary of how he's doing on loan so far. It's good to see him feeling confident again and it shows in his performances. The stats back up his return to productivity on the pitch. So who knows what will happen in the summer. I wouldn't mind if he earns another shot here in place of other wingers we have.

 

[wiz4231]

Keep him there till the end of the season, he's doing well and looks a top player in that league. His time at utd has unfortunately passed, we need a serious upgrade to the wingers we have (excluding Di Maria), we have a potential sale here that can bring us a decent return. As good as he has been, as a player in his prime years he is not good enough for us, we need better.
Other players like Lindegaard, Amos, Evans, Fletcher, Anderson, Cleverley, Young, Valencia, Hernandez need to go and be replace to an extent.
Young players like Johnstone, Thorpe, M.Keane, James, Vermijl, Powell, Zaha, Lingard, W.Keane should move on to better their careers. The only Young player on loan we should keep and invest time into is Henriquez.
A few players have ? Over their futures too, Blackett (is he really good enough), Mata (too high profile to be back up), Fellaini (Don't let a few performances fool you, with better players we won't need him).

 

[Kakeru]

The question I keep asking myself about him is whether or not he looks better because he feels better as a big fish in a smaller pool of water. Some athletes are just like that by nature regardless of how talented they are.

 

[steffyr2]

I think players like Nani need to have the play revolve around them. Unfortunately at Utd that distinction went to Rooney. Rooney likes to whip the pass out to the right wing and then head into the box to meet the cross. Nani is too creative to be that robotic so when he tries to work his magic Rooney would be upset that he did not cross the ball. I think this is where fan dissatisfaction with him originated.

I agree with this. You read of people complaining that Nani didn't perform consistently enough for them -- and yet, those same people are apparently just fine with the players we're fielding at the moment! Those people would likely say that Nani didn't produce enough on the field, when the most simple stats showed that he was producing.

The only rationale had to be that the fans were offended by Nani attempted something more complicated than a pass to Rooney.