Muralitharan vs Tendulkar

Sultan said:
If they were on the transfer list and I could only afford one player I'd go for Sachin for the entertainment he would provide. However, great bowlers like Murali would win you more matches with their individual performances than a batsman.

Here's a question

What's more difficult - to take 5 wickets especially the top order batsmen or score a century?
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I think to take 5 wickets is more difficult ... and I say that having been a batsmen when I used to play.

Likewise, whilst I really do admire Tendulkar (My 2nd fav batsman of all time after David Gower), if such a transfer situation existed, I'd take Murali as you are right, to win a test match, you have to take 20 wickets!
 
Sultan said:
Why is Warne coming into the equation?

That's not the question asked.
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Thanks!!

And to be clear, I used these two players specifically in my question because they are by a long margin the most prolific in their skill in the entire history of the game. Their statistics are both simply astonishing.
 
marchi-91 said:
Ever watched Shane Warne? 45 Wickets in that 2005 Ashes series. There were times where he captured a win from jaws of defeat single-handedly.

Best bowler of all time.
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Yep, watched pretty much every ball live and two tests in the stadiums themselves. Again I say, even in the Ashes series, Warne had a much higher calibre of bowler bowling from the opposite end putting his victims under pressure just before he bowled to them.

Some have commented on Vaas as being Murali's sidekick. With due respect to Vaas who had an excellent career, he comes nowhere close to McGrath and Gillespie in their heyday.
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
Er...I'm disliking this. How can a midget bloke who's played out his whole career on flat wickets be a bigger legend than a spinner, yes a spinner who's taken 700 wickets with a disabled right arm? Tendulkar's a deity in India....but get some perspective people.
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:nono: More like 800! and thats just tests. 1300+ including ODI.
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
Yeah, but to be fair even Judaism was a polytheistic religion before...what? 600BC. Read Exodus 15:11, it explains all. Hinduism just didn't go down the monotheistic route... and now consequently Tendulkar's been added to the pantheon of gods. We're seeing a living deity in our lifetimes, Mike.
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You probably shouldn't have called him a midget then, he might turn out to be one of those vengeful gods.
 
Maybe this thread can be settled for good if India make the final?

what a wonderful passage of play that would be: Tendulkar batting vs Murali in both their last world cup match ever!!!
 
Of course it won't be settled in a one off final. You don't judge 20 year careers like that.

Sachin is better obviously.

Murli isn't even the best spinner of this generation.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Of course it won't be settled in a one off final. You don't judge 20 year careers like that.

Sachin is better obviously.

Murli isn't even the best spinner of this generation.
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I dont agree with that. Sorry. way too simplistic.
 
sammsky1 said:
I dont agree with that. Sorry. way too simplistic.
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Simplistic?

How can one complicate that. Everyone has their opinions but I think there has been a betters spinner than him this past generation not to mention fast bowlers. Also his action is suspect. Good pro and all but never been a fan.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Simplistic?

How can one complicate that. Everyone has their opinions but I think there has been a betters spinner than him this past generation not to mention fast bowlers. Also his action is suspect. Good pro and all but never been a fan.
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This is pure negative propaganda to help those like you to help you achieve your objective. He has been cleared many times ny the ICC about the legitimacy of his action. Its not an issue. So his reputation should stop being tarnished with this baseless allegation.

I hope India make the final so we cam carry o this debate in between now and the final!
 
sammsky1 said:
This is pure negative propaganda to help those like you to help you achieve your objective. He has been cleared many times ny the ICC about the legitimacy of his action. Its not an issue. So his reputation should stop being tarnished with this baseless allegation.

I hope India make the final so we cam carry o this debate in between now and the final!
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Well he does bend the rules as much as one can so I'd take a nice clean action like Warnes over his or Bhajji's when he does the doosra.

Anyways my opinion is not based on that and nor will it be on the basis of a one off knock out match.
 
sammsky1 said:
This is pure negative propaganda to help those like you to help you achieve your objective. He has been cleared many times ny the ICC about the legitimacy of his action. Its not an issue. So his reputation should stop being tarnished with this baseless allegation.
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:lol: come on now! Baseless?!
 
sammsky1 said:
Yep, watched pretty much every ball live and two tests in the stadiums themselves. Again I say, even in the Ashes series, Warne had a much higher calibre of bowler bowling from the opposite end putting his victims under pressure just before he bowled to them.

Some have commented on Vaas as being Murali's sidekick. With due respect to Vaas who had an excellent career, he comes nowhere close to McGrath and Gillespie in their heyday.
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You'll remember then that Warne didn't have McGrath for two of those tests...

They worked well together but as somebody said in this thread or another, Warne was often side stepped for Gillespie, Lee and McGrath when picking up tail-enders. The vast majority of his bowling was to either comfortable openers or middle order batsmen he rarely got an easy go unless the pacemen had a quick 5 for.
 
B Cantona said:
:lol: come on now! Baseless?!
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marchi-91 said:
You'll remember then that Warne didn't have McGrath for two of those tests...

They worked well together but as somebody said in this thread or another, Warne was often side stepped for Gillespie, Lee and McGrath when picking up tail-enders. The vast majority of his bowling was to either comfortable openers or middle order batsmen he rarely got an easy go unless the pacemen had a quick 5 for.
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Im not necessarily a Murali fan, nor am I seeking to defend him .... but Warne has nothing to do with this thread.

I created this thread in anticipation of a fairytale final of Tendulkar vs Muralitharan, both who easily hold the world record in their particular skill. With India's win today, that will now come true.

Murali bowling to Tendulkar in the World Cup Final in their last ever dual will be a golden passage of play in the history of the game. I cant wait.
 
I hope Sachin does well in the final but I'm not going to judge the great man by one match. India winning is what matters. Murli can take 10 wickets for all I care, he still won't go up in my estimation. Not that i don't rate him, but not that highly.
 
Muralitharan's past it. He should get tonked in the final, and I hope he does.

As for even comparing him to Tendulkar...try and understand the weight of expectation that man has been dealing with for over two decades. You'll answer your question yourself if you do.
 
Donadol said:
Muralitharan's past it. He should get tonked in the final, and I hope he does.

As for even comparing him to Tendulkar...try and understand the weight of expectation that man has been dealing with for over two decades. You'll answer your question yourself if you do.
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Great point. His semi beard is greying :lol:
 
sammsky1 said:
This is pure negative propaganda to help those like you to help you achieve your objective. He has been cleared many times ny the ICC about the legitimacy of his action. Its not an issue. So his reputation should stop being tarnished with this baseless allegation.
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All I know is if I 'bowled' the ball like that in a Sunday match I would be quickly told to feck off.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
All I know is if I 'bowled' the ball like that in a Sunday match I would be quickly told to feck off.
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So true.

As for this thread I have already made up my mind on how I rate the individuals. How they bow out of ODI cricket is another matter. One would like to go out with a trophy and performance but no big shakes if it doesn't happen. I want INDIA to win it.

But I'd also like to add that it's much easier for a bowler to win a 'battle' than a batsman. A bowler only needs to bowl one good delivery and a batsman to make one mistake for the former to apparently 'win'. A batsman to win seems to have to do what Sachin did to Warne.

So yeah, it doesn't really work like that.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
All I know is if I 'bowled' the ball like that in a Sunday match I would be quickly told to feck off.
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yeah, but it wouldn't be because of how you bowled. It would be because you were wearing a corduroy jacket with those black leather elbow patches on. :p
 
From the Guardian, seemed appropriate:

The Sri Lankan team are in Mumbai, staying at the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel, so beautifully restored after the horrendous attack two and a half years ago. It is a fortress now, an exclusion zone surrounding it, so that the old Moghul-style Gateway to India and its concourse, normally thronged and past which the terrorists stormed from their boats, stands alone with its flocks of pigeons. Inside, Muttiah Muralitharan sits, nursing his injuries and hoping that his body can stand one more hurrah in the Wankhede Stadiumon Saturday.

Of course Murali will be fit – even if it is only "ish". He would not miss this for the world and no cricket lover would begrudge him a last appearance on a grand stage. No cricketer, and few sportsmen indeed, can have divided opinion as much as Murali but he is one of an indefatigable kind. He is adored and applauded as one of the two greatest spin bowlers of his generation or derided as a cheat, if an inadvertent one, for the accommodation of whom the laws of the game have been amended. There is no middle ground.

Over almost two decades, since he was no-balled in Australia in what looked like a cruelly premeditated act, the scrutiny has been unrelenting. Even the spelling of his name comes into dispute (we have no letter that translates from his native tongue the sound – somewhere between a "d" and a "th" – in the middle of his surname. He simply says "as you wish": he signed with a "th" for me.

I sit in the former camp, regarding him as a genius, a freak of nature whose unique physical attributes, to be found in his shoulder and wrist, make him capable of doing things with a cricket ball that others without his abilities should not even contemplate. It is, to sidetrack a second, an unfortunate consequence that one aspect of his legacy has been to sow the seeds for a generation of bowlers who, seeking to emulate his doosra, really do throw it. We have seen more than one of those in this World Cup. So, for me, it is fitting that he should be able to bow out from international cricket as a World Cup finalist and, perhaps, as a winner.

Were he not to play, then Scott Styris of New Zealand, lbw to his final delivery in Colombo on Tuesday night, would be the last of a truly staggering 1,331 international wickets for Sri Lanka. It was in the aftermath of that match, midnight long gone, that a group of us sat in our hotel and, over a bottle of wine, debated Murali's contribution. There were a few naysayers, as ever, but there was plenty of support. The argument ping-ponged back and forth.

Tom Moody was listening, quietly. Then he spoke, and the reason I mention it now is because we all have heard a hundred times how Murali has been tested repeatedly and cleared; how the parameters for flexion of the arm were altered not to accommodate Murali but because 99% of bowlers were shown by the most modern equipment to transgress the previous standards; how he has bowled his full range of deliveries with his arm in a brace; and how people still wish to believe the evidence of their own eyes rather than see him as a prestidigitator.

But this was different – to me, anyway. Moody was Sri Lanka's coach from 2005 until after the last World Cup final and he explained once more the way that Murali's shoulder can rotate abnormally; how he can touch his inner forearm with his fingertips (try it and see how near you get); how he is a wrist spinner who is almost a mirror image of a leg-break bowler; and, of course, how his arm is permanently bent.

So much we know. Moody continued. One day, he said, when Sri Lanka were in Perth, Murali went missing. When he turned up, it was discovered that on his day off he had taken himself to the University of Western Australia, where many of the tests on his action had been conducted. He told neither his colleagues nor the team management where he was going but he came back with a dossier. Apparently, he had heard that for all the previous investigations, there were still some voices suggesting that the tests had counted for little, because he had not been tested while bowling at different speeds.

So, Moody said, under lab conditions, he bowled the lot. Off-breaks, topspin, doosra, from all angles and at a whole range of speeds. Not one delivery came close to, never mind exceeded, the 15-degree limit. Moody still has the report, detailing every ball bowled.
The most striking thing, though, was Murali's motive. He did not go to the lab to prove yet again that he was clear. He went because he was starting to wonder whether there might not be some truth in what his more informed critics were saying. There was no way he wished to play a game in which he might genuinely be cheating. So he went to dispel that in his own mind and he came away content. If he had not been vindicated, the chances are that he would have abandoned cricket.

I think such genuine altruism by one of the truly great sportsmen needs recognition.

Muttiah Muralitharan is a magician whose prestige will never fade | Mike Selvey | Sport | The Guardian
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MikeUpNorth said:
All I know is if I 'bowled' the ball like that in a Sunday match I would be quickly told to feck off.
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Probably be told to feck off if you bowled like Malinga too. Does that make Malinga a chucker? Or is it just that people aren't used to such actions?
 
Was rather surprising, neither of them made a mark in the final.

But great scenes in the end, where they carried sachin around the park for a lap of honour - shows how much of a mark he's made on everyone in the team and everybody seems to love him and they won the final for him as much as for their country. Great to see.
 
Murali's not been a good bowler for more than 2 years now. He should've retired and let them try new bowlers.
 
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