Mourinho's post match comments

[ash_86]

You think that Martial was the one running around the pitch and Mata was using his brains? Jose likes Mata because he is riskless, but what that actually means for the team in attacking sense I don't know. His attacking numbers are a clear enough indication of his risk averse playing style.

Mata is quote good in the free attacking role. He has that tendency to find pockets of space that none of our players can find. One example that comes to mind immediately was against Pool, where he drifted to find space between the two CB's, right in front of their keeper. He didn't play against Sevilla for most of the game and the football was a sharp contrast. I'm no Mata admirer, but he keeps us ticking at this moment.

Even ignoring the fact that nearly every current top team presses, when teams are actually in our half we allow them to do too much.

Agree with the bolded part but again pressing is not the only solution. We could choose to close down the space more aggressively.

It took a whole season to get his team to function the way it's doing this season. And Jose thought he could do it in 2 days? 2 days to undo seemingly what has been trained the whole season.

Mourinho likes to keep his team in particular shape, but he never ever restricts attacking players creativity one bit. In fact Pep enforces a lot of rules like the right winger should never come to the other side and vise versa. I saw a video of Thierry Henry talking , while at Barca he switched wings and even scored. He was dropped from the next game immediately by Pep for negligence of sticking to his position. Many many players under Mourinho clearly said that he does not enforce any rules and attackers are free to express themselves in the final third. Did he train them to not make any runs and be static? Of course not. Being found so, the players had sessions to be more dynamic , which they fail to show during the match. These are professional players playing for one of the best club in the world and they should be able to collaborate with each other at this level.

If I saw a plan and then saw flaws from players within that plan then I would be ready to blame the players. Jose bought Sanchez and Pogba, its on him to get those guys to perform. If you ask me, I don't think he has a plan to fit them in cohesive team together.

Too early to come to conclusion. He specifically asked and bought in both the players and i don't think he'd done without a plan. Maybe it's not working, but again we're into 10 games with sanchez. I will reserve my judgment till end of next season.

 

[1974_Fergie_Time]

I don't understand all this is on Mourinho stuff

Have we all not being saying for the past 5 years since Sir Alex it's been poor the hunger for last minute goals and fighting for the shirt and showing passion for the fans has all gone missing

Finally we have a manager telling the players the truth and people say he has lost the plot or lost the dressing room or he is working his ticket out so the club sack him

Sir Alex said if a player thinks he is bigger than the manager or the club they have to go, Jose is faced with this dilemma right now but because so many beat him over the head with letting Salah and De Bryune go his seems to have lost a bit of his managerial instinct in making decisions

The past 2 press conferences shows he's now going to trust his managerial insticts again and doesn't care how big the player is or how much home grown they are he will get rid of them this summer if they don't start performing.

 

[PieCrust]

Jose is absolutely correct to call out the players. As a group, they have been terrible for what, 4 seasons now? Get on with it.

 

[manunited1919]

Everything being said here is right, and Mourinho is also right. Mourinho set us up badly for the Sevilla match, and it’s on him. But it’s only one game that doesn’t change the overall strategy the club is following. It’s more important the players learn from this, as they need to have a tough winning mentality which develops over time.

What’s hard to keep swallowing are the hoofball that we resort to, and not being able to sort Alexis Sanchez position, but instead allowing the whole balance of the team to get disrupted since Sanchez came.

I hope the team reacts well and we don’t get dressing room problems. We need a stable, settled team, with hunger to win big things.

 

[Tincanalley]

And its back to the haircuts again. Seriously?

Having a snazzy haircut doesnt mean you dont care about football results.

And by the way, Rooney got hair plugs. So he also cared about his hair. He just didnt have as much of it to get a flash haircut.

Not that Rooney didnt care, of course he did. And maybe Pogba doesnt care enough. There is a conversation to be had about that. But for goodness sake, let's not bring the haircuts or the clothes into it, its a red herring. Just be happy he isnt getting drunk or getting done for reckless driving.

I mentioned the haircuts among a list of things to do with image and self promotion. The club’s marketing dept have added to it tbf. Narcissistic distraction. Ronaldo got away with a certain amount of that stuff, because he was so talented; but also because he was well managed. My main point was about the mismatch between Jose’s gut instinct management and values set and the skillset needed to develop and man-manage top end footballing thoroughbreds (Not the straight ahead reliables like Felli/Matic, etc).

Ferguson took in Cantona, Ronaldo etc and let them express themselves, yet he took no shit from them. It was not all smooth running; think of the various blow ups around Beckham etc. Jose - I have the feeling- is experimenting with himself as much as the players in this role. He badly wants to reinvent himself: he too - in a lower key way - is a inveterate narcissist. That’s what all the pain is about.

It’s a huge test for all concerned. It’s probably a given that even with the current side and the current dynamic, the team could be end up four/win a cup for the next few years. But what we want to know, what Ed wants to know, what Alex wants to know, what Jose himself wants to know...

Can we expect a turnaround and a leap in maturity from both Jose and the potential unhappy stars in the squad? That’s the ideal scenario. That’s how you bury the ghost of Pep. If we could somehow stumble to that kind of outcome everything is possible; a bright future full of ups (and of course a few downs) awaits.

 

[Lawman]

he's spent all season covering for his players, talking up their performances and has been hammered on here for it, regularly called deluded by all an sundry for saying a performance was good when we've all been bored shitless a lot of times this season.

Then when he come out and agrees with us, saying all the things we've levelled at the team over and over again, he's out of order for attacking the players.

Sevilla was a nadir imo. He defended the players directly after the game but then made it clear that it was the last time. Now he's on the attack with them, throwing them to the dogs and it's high risk because its very likely that he'll be the one down the road if it doesn't work, but maybe he feels he's got no other choice? the players do look scared out there atm and for all his faults you could never call his teams scared before. it may be a last throw of the dice but i believe he's doing it for the right reasons, we'll have to wait and see if it works

Very true in all you say but with Jose being such a divisive character if he comes out of the press room then turns to go to his office half the press room think he turned the wrong way so he can’t win other than on the pitch like Fergie did so (their being the press who dictate the narrative and perception of a lot of fans who don’t watch the games to form their own opinions) and the press pack opinions become less important.
So far trophies are masking over our performances in regards attack attack attack but he’s improving our squad and team. He had and still has a massive amount of deadwood at the club. Think of our squad and look through it there are quite a few out of 20 odd that have contributed very little this season: Zlatan, Shaw, Blind, Darmian, Rojo, Herrera and that’s me being kind. Rojo and Zlatan can be excused but the others? Plus look who Jose has got rid off and how they are doing! LVG has signed some shite with only Martial being a plus to any of his signings. Moyes two signings have been ok but that’s it also.

 

[Lawman]

No he wasn’t, that’s simply not true. He was, however, rightly proud to become the first United manager to win a European trophy in his first year. Honestly some of you have no patience. Mourinho is clearly trying to build a world class squad, one worthy of United’s stature in the game, yet two seasons in you are not prepared to give him time? It’s daft. He’s a proven winner and his ambition for the club is spot on.

Agree fully very well said.

 

[mancan92]

The problem with his comments are that Jose always has his favourites. You can't play favourites and then complain when players are not playing for you when you didn't put any trust in them when they were playing well.

 

[Drz]

Can't say we weren't warned about him, history just repeating itself again, for me he needs to go before he does too much more damage.

This. For united vs Seville game, see the chelsea vs PSG game. Same cowardly tactics, different clubs, different players... Same manager (and poor Matic )
Funny how a football manager reputed for his conservative approach, criticized for his negative tactics in the past now blames that style on his current players.

 

[Hercules]

I'm not sure what he says is wrong. Our team has players who don't want to take the ball under pressure and it shows against the teams who press us well. The trend since SAF retired is that players don't give a feck as long as they get their pay and are not afraid of anything. SAF was above all players and that is why he managed to win the title against so many teams because players feared him.

The trend we have going on is, don't like to play under pressure? Don't play at all, all the blame will go to Jose. They have seen the trend after SAF, I really believe that let Jose have all the power and give him another year so that players know they can't just mess around here and they'll be the ones to get the boot if they don't play well instead of the manager. Darmian is a prime example, sitting on a weekly salary which most of us won't make in a year.

Jose doesn't sit with a cup of tea in his hand in the training sessions but what can he do when the players aren't up for it?

De Gea, Lukaku, Matic, Mata and Lingard are the ones I see demanding the ball (well not De Gea, but you get the gist) everytime. Martial and the likes are afraid. Rashford I could include with all those names but what's the point of dribbling past 2 players and hitting the shin on the oppo defender. His Chelsea team had players who thrived under pressure, same with his Inter and RM team but I actually feel that our players are spoiled in every way and you have got to tell them out some time. They were hiding against Brighton at home FFS. Pressure game? Let's not turn up.

Also, quite strange that 1 defeat can cause so much noise. We went out against Basel and the likes during SAF era as well. Ok, it was Jose's mistake for that game but it's not like we have not improved under him. I take our home league games as a given under him which wasn't the case under Moyes or LvG. I feel last year he wasn't so subtle as he was trying to inject that mentality in our team and after 2 seasons of him trying, the players are not just up for it. Does he fail at motivating the players? Maybe, or maybe the players we have can't just be arsed.

I'll back him as long as he's here as I feel any other manager coming in won't be able to deliver the trophies either. And also, I prefer winning 2-0 rather than 4-3 every game. People say it would be better if we played entertaining football and lost rather than winning ugly but for me, after watching the game, it's all about the result till the next game. I would always prefer having a happy feeling that we won (for a week generally) rather than being delighted for 90 mins with our football and then having a week to hear the banter from the oppo fans.

 

[Hercules]

This. For united vs Seville game, see the chelsea vs PSG game. Same cowardly tactics, different clubs, different players... Same manager (and poor Matic )
Funny how a football manager reputed for his conservative approach, criticized for his negative tactics in the past now blames that style on his current players.

So you're forgetting that he is a 2 times CL winner, winning the league against the best team of all time in Barca and getting Real to the semis after so long. The Chelsea squad he had during his second stint had Demba Ba FFS, still managed to win the league during his second year. Our main issue is that City have been so good (credit to Pep) this year that rest of the teams look bad but we are on course to have a 80+ points season, I remember winning the league with 79(?) points once. One game where he messed up and people are on his back. Good, and you people want success

 

[Drz]

So you're forgetting that he is a 2 times CL winner, winning the league against the best team of all time in Barca and getting Real to the semis after so long. The Chelsea squad he had during his second stint had Demba Ba FFS, still managed to win the league during his second year. Our main issue is that City have been so good (credit to Pep) this year that rest of the teams look bad but we are on course to have a 80+ points season, I remember winning the league with 79(?) points once. One game where he messed up and people are on his back. Good, and you people want success

Not arguing he hasn't won stuff. This is about how his teams play. I never expect a Mourinho team to come out and play expansive football, with a foothold in the opposition half, overloading the final third. So why now say it is down to these players when his past teams have played the same way? (Even if they have acheived more in doing so)
Maybe setting teams up the way he did chelsea vs PSG, seville vs utd, liverpool vs utd ... Has an adverse effect on certain player mentality, motivation?

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

So you're forgetting that he is a 2 times CL winner, winning the league against the best team of all time in Barca and getting Real to the semis after so long. The Chelsea squad he had during his second stint had Demba Ba FFS, still managed to win the league during his second year. Our main issue is that City have been so good (credit to Pep) this year that rest of the teams look bad but we are on course to have a 80+ points season, I remember winning the league with 79(?) points once. One game where he messed up and people are on his back. Good, and you people want success

You are correct, he has done great things for his previous clubs, but this success usually comes very quickly, and then he either gets a better offer, or has some sort of meltdown to get himself sacked, and other than lack of future options there is nothing to suggest he will last beyond his usual 2-3 year stay with us, after all he is up to his usual antics already, the only thing that is missing is his trademark stellar second season, other than that it's just more of the same.

 

[Hercules]

Not arguing he hasn't won stuff. This is about how his teams play. I never expect a Mourinho team to come out and play expansive football, with a foothold in the opposition half, overloading the final third. So why now say it is down to these players when his past teams have played the same way? (Even if they have acheived more in doing so)
Maybe setting teams up the way he did chelsea vs PSG, seville vs utd, liverpool vs utd ... Has an adverse effect on certain player mentality, motivation?

Because our players can't be arsed, they are getting the paycheck regardless. I mean have you seen our players? They, most of them, go missing when the things go down. That's what he said after the match. I mean come on, if they all chicken out when the things get tough, what can he do? Motivate? How?

I don't think this will be a popular opinion but we need someone like Roy Keane back there (not necessarily him) who can rip into players with a bad performance. Right now, Jose has to do that and as I said, players have too much power at our club that Jose comes out as a bad guy everytime even if he's saying the truth.

We need to give him a chance to have that command that ok, you're a mega star but you have to play it my way. Pogba will be a failure if he goes to La Liga, will be a hit if he goes to PSG or Bayern. Says a lot.

 

[Hercules]

You are correct, he has done great things for his previous clubs, but this success usually comes very quickly, and then he either gets a better offer, or has some sort of meltdown to get himself sacked, and other than lack of future options there is nothing to suggest he will last beyond his usual 2-3 year stay with us, after all he is up to his usual antics already, the only thing that is missing is his trademark stellar second season, other than that it's just more of the same.

As I said in my previous post, he has to deal with Pep's City this time. I truly believe that next year it's gonna be closer than what it is right now. Can't say he'll win the league and can't say the same for Pep as well, next year is next year but if you can't see the improvement then I'm not one to argue.

Also, for a fact that I was a Pogba fan who thought he'd be a great player for us as he 'gets the club' but as much as Jose is slated, players like him deserve the stick more.

 

[Hercules]

And except Inter and Porto, he was sacked from Chelsea and Real but you know what he did with the former 2? He won the CL with them and THEN left for a better offer. People here are just so negative that they just can't back the manager. You have a thread in the general forum that 'Is the United forum safe to go into yet?'. I mean some people get it that while he is at some fault, it's not 100% his. He messed up against Sevilla and I'm totally angered at him but do I want him gone? No. Do I disagree with his comments about the players? No. Do I think he could have handled it better? Maybe. Do I think any other manager will win us the league against Pep's City? No. Do I think we'll have a chance next year if Jose stays? Definitely.

 

[tjb]

Because our players can't be arsed, they are getting the paycheck regardless. I mean have you seen our players? They, most of them, go missing when the things go down. That's what he said after the match. I mean come on, if they all chicken out when the things get tough, what can he do? Motivate? How?

I don't think this will be a popular opinion but we need someone like Roy Keane back there (not necessarily him) who can rip into players with a bad performance. Right now, Jose has to do that and as I said, players have too much power at our club that Jose comes out as a bad guy everytime even if he's saying the truth.

We need to give him a chance to have that command that ok, you're a mega star but you have to play it my way. Pogba will be a failure if he goes to La Liga, will be a hit if he goes to PSG or Bayern. Says a lot.

I don't think its because they don't care. I think they lack the talent. When you watch Spurs, City, Liverpool, even Chelsea and Arsenal, they make playing the ball out of the back look so easy. It takes them 30 seconds to achieve something that takes our defenders 3 minutes to do. Not only do they have a problem passing, but they are very slow in making decisons on the ball. When they get pressed, they have the ability and decision making to get themselves out of those holes without requiring their midfielders to drop back and save them. I feel if this part is taken care of, our attackers have proven how quick and decisive they can be.
As regards to the front line, what I cannot figure out is the pressing. When I usually watch Mourinho teams, especially with his 4231, his front four hound the opposition defence, while his midfield stays deeper but still help the press. At United, this doesn't happen. I can't decide whether this is because of Mourinho or the players. Maybe Mourinho feels Old trafford is too big and pressing aggressively will leave players tired. Or that his midfield and defence aren't solid enough for the front 4 to press as high. In the case of the players, maybe they are lazy and have no work rate or tactically they are not sensible enough to press in the right way.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

As I said in my previous post, he has to deal with Pep's City this time. I truly believe that next year it's gonna be closer than what it is right now. Can't say he'll win the league and can't say the same for Pep as well, next year is next year but if you can't see the improvement then I'm not one to argue.

Also, for a fact that I was a Pogba fan who thought he'd be a great player for us as he 'gets the club' but as much as Jose is slated, players like him deserve the stick more.

Well we'll see, because I have no doubt he's staying, the issue for me is not City, it's that he's already displaying the 'end game' antics with his ranting, player power, and inability stop his ego from getting in the way of accepting we are playing poor football because of him, I am happy to be proven wrong, but last season will be as good as it gets under him imo.

If Pogba was an isolated case then I'd be with you, but there are so many who look crap that I'm happy to cut him some slack, he looked too bad to be true on Tuesday.

 

[RMD83]

For everyone defending Jose he is still the same helmet he was managing other clubs and these recent comments would have been seen as a meltdown on here if he was managing anyone else. You can defend him all you like but what made me laugh was his comments of players only liking sunny days or summer days, however he put it. He only works well under the sunny/ summer days himself. When it starts to get difficult his default stance is to slam his players and bark on about his past success. He’s doing that now. One question in a presser leads to a 12 minute rambling ego pick up answer. He’s setting up his downfall like he has done in the past. You want the players to change but he has proven time and time again that he needs to change, he hasn’t learned from his own mistakes that he has made more than once. He is annoyed by the attacking tactical instructions that he is giving apparently but we look very much like a Jose team from what I have seen. He isn’t getting a tune out of martial, rashford, Pogba and early days but Sanchez. Funny how he had issues with Ronaldo and hazard just to name the biggest two who apparently didn’t like his management style. We are a Jose team and now he is critising the players for being just that. He is the right man for the job for now, the ship was well off course and he has steadied it but he will leave a great squad that a more exciting manager will turn into the team we want it to be imo. This is the beginning of the end for him again imo. He’s setting himself up to lose the players like he has done before and his horrible tactics are or will lose the fans. He hasn’t changed his tactics in 15 years or adapted to the evolution of football and that is his biggest downfall as a manager and he hasn’t changed his approach to difficult times regarding the players, fans or media and that is due to his failings as a man. He is his own worst enemy and that is why the media have a field day slamming him.

 

[Hercules]

I don't think its because they don't care. I think they lack the talent. When you watch Spurs, City, Liverpool, even Chelsea and Arsenal, they make playing the ball out of the back look so easy. It takes them 30 seconds to achieve something that takes our defenders 3 minutes to do. Not only do they have a problem passing, but they are very slow in making decisons on the ball. When they get pressed, they have the ability and decision making to get themselves out of those holes without requiring their midfielders to drop back and save them. I feel if this part is taken care of, our attackers have proven how quick and decisive they can be.
As regards to the front line, what I cannot figure out is the pressing. When I usually watch Mourinho teams, especially with his 4231, his front four hound the opposition defence, while his midfield stays deeper but still help the press. At United, this doesn't happen. I can't decide whether this is because of Mourinho or the players. Maybe Mourinho feels Old trafford is too big and pressing aggressively will leave players tired. Or that his midfield and defence aren't solid enough for the front 4 to press as high. In the case of the players, maybe they are lazy and have no work rate or tactically they are not sensible enough to press in the right way.

That was precisely my point, players can't be arsed. About lacking talent, well we have spent a lot. Maybe we thought players would turn up when required but they don't. If I were to lose a game, I'd happy to do it with Lingard, McT and Rashers in the team rather than others. It actually has come to the point that losing with Pogba/Sanchez/Lukaku in the team hurts so much and except Lukaku, I can't see anyone going for it. I mean I myself wanted Morata before and I'm happy to admit that Lukaku is a better fit for us as he is ready to battle. Saw it last night, saw it before as well. Players need to take the blame, it can't be Jose everytime. He has won everything, I mean come on.

Well we'll see, because I have no doubt he's staying, the issue for me is not City, it's that he's already displaying the 'end game' antics with his ranting, player power, and inability stop his ego from getting in the way of accepting we are playing poor football because of him, I am happy to be proven wrong, but last season will be as good as it gets under him imo.

If Pogba was an isolated case then I'd be with you, but there are so many who look crap that I'm happy to cut him some slack, he looked too bad to be true on Tuesday.

He has his ego, I agree but our most successful manager had that ego where he said some great stuff. There are so many who look crap, yeah but Bailly aside as he has been injured so much, I only see Lindelof as the only signing he made who isn't mentally strong. Zlatan was, Pogba was a given with the history, binned Mkhi aside, Matic, Lukaku. Smalling, Jones, Young, Darmian, Mata, Martial, Shaw, Valencia that's like 4 of our starting XI there atleast. He wanted Perisic, didn't get him. Expressed his anger back then as well.

I look at Shaw/Valencia - I don't know what they bring, I mean come on, doing ok defensively but no threat going forward. If you play a reserve player there, I think he can perform the same. They aren't exceptional in defence and have zero threat going forward. Valencia just pass the ball to Smalling if he is under pressure and Shaw dribbles and passes back to Matic or Martial, why not go for the cross? Coz when he tries to do that, he hits the first person defending.

This is my last post for the day but if I can say, please back the manager. We are going in the right direction, don't be so much negative. Please.

 

[lysglimt]

Jose is absolutely correct to call out the players. As a group, they have been terrible for what, 4 seasons now? Get on with it.

And why can't he he fix it ? He has had almost 2 seasons now - 4 transfer windows, and we still look like crap. Yes - some of the players aren't good enough - but Klopp has shown it's perfectly possible to get mediocre players play attractive football. Mourinho can't get extremely expensive players play attractive football. And sure ultimately the players are too blame - but who signed them ? Who signed Pogba, Nilsson-Lindelöf, Sanchez ?

 

[Flytan]

He's instilled a defensive mentality in the players for the greater part of 2 years where "defense comes first". Now he's mad that during a single half of a game players haven't adjusted to a new gameplan? Sorry, I was backing Mourinho during the first Pogba fiasco, Mkhi, first Shaw, and Martial stuff, but it's just getting old. I feel like he's having his third season meltdown a season early and to be honest I don't really think I'd take him over class players that it seems like he's ruined.

 

[haram]

You are extremely naive if you think the team have never worked on an aggresive approach from our defensive line to get the ball inbetween lines quicker. They were just specifically working on it for this game and then the players were scared to take responsibilty and wanted someone else to do it.

 

[tjb]

That was precisely my point, players can't be arsed. About lacking talent, well we have spent a lot. Maybe we thought players would turn up when required but they don't. If I were to lose a game, I'd happy to do it with Lingard, McT and Rashers in the team rather than others. It actually has come to the point that losing with Pogba/Sanchez/Lukaku in the team hurts so much and except Lukaku, I can't see anyone going for it. I mean I myself wanted Morata before and I'm happy to admit that Lukaku is a better fit for us as he is ready to battle. Saw it last night, saw it before as well. Players need to take the blame, it can't be Jose everytime. He has won everything, I mean come on.



He has his ego, I agree but our most successful manager had that ego where he said some great stuff. There are so many who look crap, yeah but Bailly aside as he has been injured so much, I only see Lindelof as the only signing he made who isn't mentally strong. Zlatan was, Pogba was a given with the history, binned Mkhi aside, Matic, Lukaku. Smalling, Jones, Young, Darmian, Mata, Martial, Shaw, Valencia that's like 4 of our starting XI there atleast. He wanted Perisic, didn't get him. Expressed his anger back then as well.

I look at Shaw/Valencia - I don't know what they bring, I mean come on, doing ok defensively but no threat going forward. If you play a reserve player there, I think he can perform the same. They aren't exceptional in defence and have zero threat going forward. Valencia just pass the ball to Smalling if he is under pressure and Shaw dribbles and passes back to Matic or Martial, why not go for the cross? Coz when he tries to do that, he hits the first person defending.

This is my last post for the day but if I can say, please back the manager. We are going in the right direction, don't be so much negative. Please.

The thing is, the reason we aren't at that world class level yet for me is the defence and midfield, where we haven't spent money. The players there and the same ones that failed Van Gaal. Like you said, we lack full backs, they don't even create options for bringing the ball out front the back. The can't pass, can't cross, can't make quick decisions, that's a matter of class. On Pogba, he's very complicated. When we bought him i thought we could convert him to a Yaya Toure. The problem with him is, he can play the role but I do not feel he wants to. He sees himself as an attacker, and rather than hold his position in midfield, he purposely goes up the pitch to attack and lacks the work rate to make up for it defensively. Even if you play him in a three man midfield, he still needs to work hard defensively to keep the midfield in control, which he doesn't do. Pogba reminds me of Ruud Gullit. Same physical characteristics, similar style, except Pogba is slightly bigger. Unique players who are dynamic. I don't blame Mourinho for using him wrongly, because he's a rare type of player. Milan used to play Gullit as an attacking midfielder/ second striker or as a right sided attacking midfielder. By doing this they gave him the space and roaming ability to attack and a lower level of defensive duty he could handle. the 4222 Mourinho used against chelsea worked partly because pogba was given this type of freedom. Maybe the way forward is to accomodate Pogba by giving him a role like this, maybe even experiment with the attacking midfielder role he gave sneijder.

 

[tjb]

He's instilled a defensive mentality in the players for the greater part of 2 years where "defense comes first". Now he's mad that during a single half of a game players haven't adjusted to a new gameplan? Sorry, I was backing Mourinho during the first Pogba fiasco, Mkhi, first Shaw, and Martial stuff, but it's just getting old. I feel like he's having his third season meltdown a season early and to be honest I don't really think I'd take him over class players that it seems like he's ruined.

Having a defensive side doesn't mean you can't attack. People act like Mourinho told them not to move the ball quickly at all and purposely loses midfield battles. United is the first Mourinho team that I have seen lose midfield battles this easily. Its the least aggressive team that he has ever had. When has his teams ever looked so slow on the ball? When has his teams ever looked like they can's string two passes together. People like to create this narrative that he just came and messed up our football. We don't attack in big games because we don't have the quality to attack in big games? Why? Because our defenders are horrible on the ball and horrible in handling the press. Our defenders force our midfielders to come far too deep and leave Lukaku isolated. Hence we hoof it to Lukaku, but Lukaku is an island fighting against a large pitch and three players. If United pushed up the pitch, the same crap defenders we have would get beaten on the offside trap consistently like they used to under Moyes. These are the same defenders that give time and space to strikers when playing deep, imagine how bad it would be if they pushed up. In essence, Mourinho is defensive, but we play badly because we have bad players in certain positions. Mourinho is also this defensive because he has no trust in our team. Its that simple.

 

[Return of the Manc]

Is he gone yet?

 

[Ramshock]

Is he gone yet?

Id say you will be gone before he will.

 

[Feedingseagulls]

You are extremely naive if you think the team have never worked on an aggresive approach from our defensive line to get the ball inbetween lines quicker. They were just specifically working on it for this game and then the players were scared to take responsibilty and wanted someone else to do it.

Very much my view too.

 

[Paxi]

 

[Bobski]

If we are thrilled with the direction of honesty, harsh truths and a demand for maturity then it would be fair to ask that to go both ways. Players and Mourinho.

I have never liked Mourinho, so I am conditioned to look negatively on most of his actions. Trying to sell this as a new dawn for the club, an understanding of our true place before we can move forward, not buying. It very much resembles the conflicts he has created throughout his career, much of which have been about protecting himself first.

 

[Greck]

Not buying the notion that this is comparable to SAF. Beckham, Keane, SAF only fell out with players that were getting too big for their boots. eg Schmeichel getting benched a game for telling SAF he was slipping. But he never went out of his way to single out youngsters repeatedly.

For example Ravel Morrison is one of the worst behaved youngsters that has been in this club in the last 20 years but SAF knew better than to treat him with disdain (and honestly I can't say he wouldn't have deserved it)

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Because the media acted like that, and have been for months. Because Scholes and a tonne of ex-pro and pundits, hell even Frank fecking De Beor have been at Mourinho like a bunch of vultures on the African savanna.

It's because it's Manchester United the biggest club in England. Because that club going out against Seville will always be considered a failure. Because the football is dull. And because the manager keeps calling his players/team trash.

There's nothing confusing about the negativity.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Jose is absolutely correct to call out the players. As a group, they have been terrible for what, 4 seasons now? Get on with it.

Get on with what ? In that case, Jose hasnt been so great either. He's spent shitloads. Why does he still have terrible players? And why are terrible players keeping his 90 million pound man out of the team.

 

[tjb]

If we are thrilled with the direction of honesty, harsh truths and a demand for maturity then it would be fair to ask that to go both ways. Players and Mourinho.

I have never liked Mourinho, so I am conditioned to look negatively on most of his actions. Trying to sell this as a new dawn for the club, an understanding of our true place before we can move forward, not buying. It very much resembles the conflicts he has created throughout his career, much of which have been about protecting himself first.

I don't think this is a new dawn. I think Mourinho is actually frustrated with this squad. He has hinted at this for his entire tenure. Remember when he said he would have never sold and bought certain players if he was LVG, or all the times he mentions fight, positive vibes or the good spirit of the squad. " They fought as hard as they could", these are words he did not use at any other of his former teams except Chelsea in 2013-14. So he clearly feels the squad is lacking in quality in certain areas. He is not protecting the players, he is simply letting the fans and the media know exactly what he is dealing with. I think he feels the pressure coming from all angles, and is simply stating that he's doing the best he can with this group of players.
I keep hearing people talk about how much quality this squad has. I feel we really overrate this group. The ease at which some players lose the ball, thier in ability to play against the press, their inability to move the ball quickly without losing possession, and our inability to play the ball out of the back without it taking 5 minutes, all point to us being weak in certain areas. The same issues we had under Van Gaal are the same ones that we still have under a manager with a completely different style. Van Gaal was known as an attacking manager before he came, he left as one who played boring, slow football. Mourinho is known as a manager that plays aggressive counter attacking football, yet United are playing slow, boring football. Even during his dark days at Chelsea, they never played slow boring football. Our problem is our players. We still have same failures under Mourinho that we had under Van Gaal. The same shaky central defenders, the same lack of width, and the same lack of full backs. I can fault him for building our team slowly, but as far as performance goes, I've seen his past teams play, this is not a Mourinho team.

 

[tjb]

Get on with what ? In that case, Jose hasnt been so great either. He's spent shitloads. Why does he still have terrible players? And why are terrible players keeping his 90 million pound man out of the team.

Why do people keep saying this when they know about how inflated the market is? Mourinho spend 89m on Pogba and 90m on Lukaku. And when you consider how bare our squad was before he came, you should understand that we needed much more than filling two key positions to get back to where we used to be. My feeling is that this rebuild was done purposely slow by the board. Why? Because Van Gaal's clearout and bargain signing process was poor. So instead of spending money on quantity as we did with Van Gaal, the board decided to spend it slowly on quality. I feel if Mourinho had his way, as seen in the past, he would have shipped off a lot of the players that we currently have. So we have to be patient with the squad building process. We have signed the star quality players that we needed in Sanchez, Pogba, and Lukaku. I feel the next phase will be to fill out the rest of the squad with good players.

 

[steffyr2]

I don't think this is a new dawn. I think Mourinho is actually frustrated with this squad. He has hinted at this for his entire tenure. Remember when he said he would have never sold and bought certain players if he was LVG, or all the times he mentions fight, positive vibes or the good spirit of the squad. " They fought as hard as they could", these are words he did not use at any other of his former teams except Chelsea in 2013-14. So he clearly feels the squad is lacking in quality in certain areas. He is not protecting the players, he is simply letting the fans and the media know exactly what he is dealing with. I think he feels the pressure coming from all angles, and is simply stating that he's doing the best he can with this group of players.
I keep hearing people talk about how much quality this squad has. I feel we really overrate this group. The ease at which some players lose the ball, thier in ability to play against the press, their inability to move the ball quickly without losing possession, and our inability to play the ball out of the back without it taking 5 minutes, all point to us being weak in certain areas. The same issues we had under Van Gaal are the same ones that we still have under a manager with a completely different style. Van Gaal was known as an attacking manager before he came, he left as one who played boring, slow football. Mourinho is known as a manager that plays aggressive counter attacking football, yet United are playing slow, boring football. Even during his dark days at Chelsea, they never played slow boring football. Our problem is our players. We still have same failures under Mourinho that we had under Van Gaal. The same shaky central defenders, the same lack of width, and the same lack of full backs. I can fault him for building our team slowly, but as far as performance goes, I've seen his past teams play, this is not a Mourinho team.

I was thinking about Utd players of old (and not that old!), where you could expect to see something fantastic in every game. Seen anything fantastic in this team lately? (other than Bailly's ball control moves in the defensive end)
And honestly, do we go out to buy the slowest players we can find, or do they turn into players who are 2nd to every ball due to the food/weather?

The strain is getting to Mourinho. It's probably gotten to Pogba. It's possible that some players want to keep as low a profile as they can get away with, rather than find themselves front page of the local paper for a mistake. Hopefully they'll rethink that now that it's been pointed out.

btw, I never hear/see anyone say anything about the players being fantastic -- unless it's a club to beat Mourinho with. You don't see dozens of new threads about this player and that, and what they've done recently for Utd. Not happening. Nothing to say about them.

 

[mu4c_20le]

So we have to be patient with the squad building process. We have signed the star quality players that we needed in Sanchez, Pogba, and Lukaku. I feel the next phase will be to fill out the rest of the squad with good players.

Perisic and matuidi if the paper rumours are true. Good grief.

 

[Bobski]

I don't think this is a new dawn. I think Mourinho is actually frustrated with this squad. He has hinted at this for his entire tenure. Remember when he said he would have never sold and bought certain players if he was LVG, or all the times he mentions fight, positive vibes or the good spirit of the squad. " They fought as hard as they could", these are words he did not use at any other of his former teams except Chelsea in 2013-14. So he clearly feels the squad is lacking in quality in certain areas. He is not protecting the players, he is simply letting the fans and the media know exactly what he is dealing with. I think he feels the pressure coming from all angles, and is simply stating that he's doing the best he can with this group of players.
I keep hearing people talk about how much quality this squad has. I feel we really overrate this group. The ease at which some players lose the ball, thier in ability to play against the press, their inability to move the ball quickly without losing possession, and our inability to play the ball out of the back without it taking 5 minutes, all point to us being weak in certain areas. The same issues we had under Van Gaal are the same ones that we still have under a manager with a completely different style. Van Gaal was known as an attacking manager before he came, he left as one who played boring, slow football. Mourinho is known as a manager that plays aggressive counter attacking football, yet United are playing slow, boring football. Even during his dark days at Chelsea, they never played slow boring football. Our problem is our players. We still have same failures under Mourinho that we had under Van Gaal. The same shaky central defenders, the same lack of width, and the same lack of full backs. I can fault him for building our team slowly, but as far as performance goes, I've seen his past teams play, this is not a Mourinho team.

I have also watched his past teams play. Being generous they have been mostly efficient, risk averse against live threats and willing to fall back on highly negative reactive plans. You only have to look at the Mou's Real Madrid thread in the football forum to see how divisive his approach was even when he had a squad stacked with world class talent. LVG's football was also on the end of some highly conflicting reports. Both appear to have become more conservative with time and age.

I don't believe even with a significant talent upgrade we would see a massive difference in his approach, would be more effective with better players, but I doubt he is going to have a sudden epiphany about attacking football. Not only can it be just as, if not more successful that a defensive approach but it also creates good will from the fans.

 

[tjb]

I was thinking about Utd players of old (and not that old!), where you could expect to see something fantastic in every game. Seen anything fantastic in this team lately? (other than Bailly's ball control moves in the defensive end)
And honestly, do we go out to buy the slowest players we can find, or do they turn into players who are 2nd to every ball due to the food/weather?

The strain is getting to Mourinho. It's probably gotten to Pogba. It's possible that some players want to keep as low a profile as they can get away with, rather than find themselves front page of the local paper for a mistake. Hopefully they'll rethink that now that it's been pointed out.

btw, I never hear/see anyone say anything about the players being fantastic -- unless it's a club to beat Mourinho with. You don't see dozens of new threads about this player and that, and what they've done recently for Utd. Not happening. Nothing to say about them.

Oh but you do. Martial and Rashford are immensely overrated. People think because a player dribbles and has potential that he is automatically good. Consistency is what makes a good player, and neither of them are consistently creative enough. Our defenders, Smalling, Jones, and Rojo are seen as mid-table; i see midtable defenders that can pass and press aggressively, these are championship defenders. Some people used to think Valencia was a top right back in this league when he can't open up space for himself to recieve a pass, can't pass inside to central midfieders and has one of the slowest minds on the ball i have ever seen. We have some top players, but our average player is a mid-talent.

 

[tjb]

I have also watched his past teams play. Being generous they have been mostly efficient, risk averse against live threats and willing to fall back on highly negative reactive plans. You only have to look at the Mou's Real Madrid thread in the football forum to see how divisive his approach was even when he had a squad stacked with world class talent. LVG's football was also on the end of some highly conflicting reports. Both appear to have become more conservative with time and age.

I don't believe even with a significant talent upgrade we would see a massive difference in his approach, would be more effective with better players, but I doubt he is going to have a sudden epiphany about attacking football. Not only can it be just as, if not more successful that a defensive approach but it also creates good will from the fans.

I actually don't mind his approach as much as others. Watching how the tactics play out is fun to watch. But the reason I would like to keep Mourinho is that he's a winner. People really underestimate this quality. He literally reads the game well and that is why even when he plays negatively, he wins. There are not many managers in football with this quality, and generally in sports, what you tend to see is that the same group of managers win the trophies. Its all well and good playing fun football, but winning is what matters at the end of the day, and winning consistently is incredibly hard. At the very least, I would like to see Mourinho given the opportunity to build the type of squad he wants. He knows how to build good teams, and if that is all he does for united, he would have left a good platform for the next manager unlike LVG.