City are extremely likely to win the league again. Also, I am sure they will do better in CL. I have got a feeling that Pep won't leave them until he wins CL and surely their management will do their utmost to keep the baldie for as long as possible. Difficult times for us - United fans, certainly can see Guardiola kicking Mourinho out of the prem.
Mourinho says it will be difficult to catch City next season
- Thread starter Adisa
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No worries I understand completely!
Getting a minimum of 103 points next season!!
It seems worth noting that the City 100 point mark might be something to do with the fact that they had no challengers for the vast majority of the session.
They were 11 points clear in early December because of an insipid 1-2 loss *at Old Trafford* from Utd, and have basically been coasting ever since.
They're a good team, but Utd handed it to them through their total lack of meaningful challenge. Epitomised by the defeatist attitude of the manager who will blame literally everyone and everything before he blames himself.
Utd at one of (if not the) most financially powerful teams in the world. They CAN compete with City, they have just spent money poorly.
Everyone needs to stop feeling sorry for themselves and making excuses. Mourinho is a thing of the past, and he needs to go.
They were 11 points clear in early December because of an insipid 1-2 loss *at Old Trafford* from Utd, and have basically been coasting ever since.
They're a good team, but Utd handed it to them through their total lack of meaningful challenge. Epitomised by the defeatist attitude of the manager who will blame literally everyone and everything before he blames himself.
Utd at one of (if not the) most financially powerful teams in the world. They CAN compete with City, they have just spent money poorly.
Everyone needs to stop feeling sorry for themselves and making excuses. Mourinho is a thing of the past, and he needs to go.
City really are in a league of their own, especially if they buy the right players this summer. Surely they have a decision to make up top as Aguero gets older and alwayd stays injured. Well well, as long as City wins the league, it means Liverpool doesn’t - and Klopp is not staying forever.
Watch out for Liverpool. Klopp making year on year improvements. Next year he surely will focus on the league. Second half of this season Liverpool have looked phenomenal .. as have of course city.
Not just the central defenders. The fullbacks as well. Being able to deal with a press, the way you approach the ball to link and build attacks. Passing inbetween the lines. Willingness to take responsibility to cutting oppostion lines. Our defenders are not good enough.
What do you mean what do defenders have to do with transition? They are the first line to pick up the ball.
You are using Smalling as an example of someone who can bring the ball out
.They have actually finished in the same position - with one point less than last year. They’ve gotten an insane season from Salah, which he 100% won’t repeat next year. He will still be great, not 30+ goals great.
City 2016/17 15pts off the winners Chelsea. They went from 78 to 100 pts. 22 points gain.
We are 19pts off, but City showed how much improvement can be done over a summer, so difficult yes thankfully not impossible. If we don’t win it next season then surely he has to be within a ball hair of it.
Our goal tally drastically needs to improve tho.
We are 19pts off, but City showed how much improvement can be done over a summer, so difficult yes thankfully not impossible. If we don’t win it next season then surely he has to be within a ball hair of it.
Our goal tally drastically needs to improve tho.
I think yhe problem city will have is motivation after winning the league especially in terms of consistent league form. Not sure guardiola is a great motivator. Either.
Justnlook at Chelseas drop off twice over aftet winning the league easily.
All it takes is for City to be less fortunate and they are beatable. All those late winners in the winter period gave them huge amounts of momentum which allowed them to extend their winning streak.
As an example, in his first season at Bayern he got a better points per game than this season, then next season they were considerably worse. If he had a similar drop off next season City would finish on 86 points which is good but beatable.
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. You can call it luck, but probabilities work in your favour when you put on unrelenting pressure on the opposition all game. Attacking football, more than being good to watch has an intangible force of power to it. I don't think your manager seems to get this. Teams can go on the pitch beaten already because they know you will attack, they know you will score and they fear they will get humiliated.
I take your second point. He finished on 90 points in 13/14, then 14/15 on 79. But worth noting that the teams trajectories are different. He inherited treble winners at Bayern as opposed to an aging team that clung onto 4th spot. It will be his third season with City, in his third season with Bayern he finished on 88 points.
If you are to mount a serious challenge to City next season and beyond, and that goes to us too, you will have to raise your game significantly, and show crazy consistency. I'm talking 93+ points levels. Mourinho has accomplished this before with his Real side, so it can be done. The question is, is the version of Mourinho you have the same all conquering force of yesteryear?
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Mourinho has never once shown any inclination to play like how you describe. Under LvG it was clear, he demanded his defenders to build from the back. I pointed out that however poor Smalling may be in comparison to other top defenders at playing out from the back, he and Blind did an admirable job for LvG and he would have done it too had Mourinho expected his team to play like that. You have just assumed that just because we play like that because our players must be shite, it's not it's actually Mourinho who has no idea how to setup a defence to play like that. He had Blind and Lindelof available to him the entire season and he never used them even against minnows, its clear to everyone that Mourinho has no intention of making his defenders to play like how you describe. Even if we end up buying Hummels, Boateng and Ramos next season they'd be hoofing it to Lukaku all season long.Not just the central defenders. The fullbacks as well. Being able to deal with a press, the way you approach the ball to link and build attacks. Passing inbetween the lines. Willingness to take responsibility to cutting oppostion lines. Our defenders are not good enough.
What do you mean what do defenders have to do with transition? They are the first line to pick up the ball.
You are using Smalling as an example of someone who can bring the ball out
You are wrong. At times, teams caught on how to play against us and let our defenders have the ball under van Gaal. Also, the players were told to go sideways and backwards all the time anyway. There was little actual progression towards buildup from the backline. Nothing that happened under van Gaal proves Smalling's level on the ball under pressure or attempting to build play from deeper areas.
I am not suggesting there will be a drastic change where we will be playing out the back like City. No. The idea is taking the ball out of pressure areas when teams press us and then trying to cut through lines quicker. Make the transitions sharper, the counters quicker. Mourinho has made comments in regards to Lindelof and what he wants from him on the ball. Mourinho has spoken about wanting the team to be more aggressive with the passes in between the lines.
I am not claiming he wants us to play like prime Barca out the back or that we will not take the long option. There is nothing wrong with a long ball if its the right one. Playing against a press though, your defenders have a job if they are going to be under pressure. If they can cut through a press our midfielders and fullbacks when they join attacks can attack more efficiently.
Also, when Mourinho had top defenders he went and won league titles, and they did not just hoof the ball. Keep up that narrative though.
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He had a poor season last year according to this board after taking over the strongest squad in the league and having some of his staff already in place for a year and spending bucket loads. I’d prefer to look at City like
Sterling was flying under Rodgers at Liverpool 2 and 3 seasons ago. He was one of the best in the league hence City bought him for a world record fee £50m. Same with Stones another £50m same with Laporte another £50m Mendy another £50m Silva £47m Walker £50m you see the pattern here this is the reason we are behind them. Plus Pep had already a few more blue chip players to add these guys onto. Guys who had been used to playing with each other for quite a few seasons (Augero, KDB, Silva, Fernandinho, Kompany, Otamendi, Delph, etc). Plus he had the luxury of one knowing he had the job a year in advance and having part of his management squad already in place.
And Moyes added Fellaini and Mata to this squad then LVG spent buckets and never improved it either (his transfers could have set us back 5 years they were that bad). And you must see what Jose now inherited compared to City squad no?
I'm not sure why you're going in circles when we've already had this debate. I already said Pep inherited more top players than Jose and thus was at an immediate advantage, nobody could deny that.
But the difference in the squad themselves was marginal. I'd argue we had a better and younger backline and more promising young talent up front, and we've bought top players since who haven't made the difference they should have.
Repeated late winners is not luck though - we United fans should know that better than anyone.
1. City had an great season that is hard to replicate
2. We did well against the topteams.
3. All we have to do is put the lower teams to the sword.
4. I believe we can battle for first longer than we did this season.
See. It aint hard. I should write speeches for the man.
2. We did well against the topteams.
3. All we have to do is put the lower teams to the sword.
4. I believe we can battle for first longer than we did this season.
See. It aint hard. I should write speeches for the man.
yeah, my thoughts too.
He also has other players to play and look after (put in window) get matches for World Cup, keep fitness ticking over for cup final and give guys a final opportunity to stake a place. The fact he didn’t play Mctominay who played on Thursday night is here not there and the fact Foden was on the bench also for last goof the season means jack shit considering Pep has hardly played him and even elected to have only 6 instead of a youth earlier in the season on the bench. I’m happy to have a debate but keep it real and leave the straw arguments aside buddy.
Don’t spoil the narrative ffs.
Oh yes, it's obviously not the higher end of variance for City to get 100 points. We always used to get 100 points under SAF because we got lots of late winners
City are not going to repeat this season next season, you need things to go your way to get 100 points in the league. Not even his Barcelona side accomplished 100 points.
There are only two types of teams that we face, one superior than us and other midtable PL teams and relegation candidates, only teams that press us are good teams and Mourinho has us parking the bus against every single one of them, so the defenders aren't going to build up from the back there seeing as the entire midfield is with them near our box. Weaker teams usually park the bus against us and they never press as the entire team is busy parking the bus, our defenders have no job other than dealing with aimless long balls, not much is needed from the central defenders either. What exactly is the problem then? Are you seriously suggesting that we are only parking the bus against good teams because of a lack of good central defenders and not because of Mourinho's tried and tested tactics of parking the bus against superior teams?
Oh under LvG our defenders actually brought the ball out from the back, yes they passed is sideways more often just like every top defender in the top teams does these days, Sevilla don't have fecking Beckenbauer in their backline and they had no problem building out from the back against us.
Seeing as the CB position is not a priority in this transfer window are we to expect another season of shite football from Mourinho?
We were our own worst enemies this year. At times we were ruthlessly efficient (if not exactly entertaining), did really well against the rest of the top 6, but we couldn't raise our game / break down the dregs of the league. Result wise, 6 of our 7 losses were by a single goal and in most cases we were frustratingly ineffective rather than soundly beaten.
Not saying we will be a joy to watch but I don;t think it would take much for Mourinho to get another 10 points from this team with one or two key signings. Might not be enough to challenge City if they run riot again but I think they did benefit from not having any credible challengers for most of the second half of the season.
Not saying we will be a joy to watch but I don;t think it would take much for Mourinho to get another 10 points from this team with one or two key signings. Might not be enough to challenge City if they run riot again but I think they did benefit from not having any credible challengers for most of the second half of the season.
I think our only realistic chance is to meet them half way. We should be looking at low 90s next season as our aim. If City get 100 again then fair fecks to them.
Oh yes, it's obviously not the higher end of variance for City to get 100 points. We always used to get 100 points under SAF because we got lots of late winners
City are not going to repeat this season next season, you need things to go your way to get 100 points in the league. Not even his Barcelona side accomplished 100 points.
I wasn’t talking about them getting 100 points again - more the fact that frequent late winners are a result of a commitment to applying constant pressure on the opposition and taking risks to go for 3 points. Annoying as the 94th minute winners are, they are certainly not pure luck.
As for next season, barring a freak run of injuries, I would expect City to get at least 90 points so United need to up their game substantially. I don’t see this current United side building towards hitting that kind of points total, even with a few players coming in over the summer. I take more hope from Pep’s habit of changing jobs every 3-4 years than I do from the current United set up.
19 point gap to city but...
If we hadn't lost to the 3 newly promoted teams and won those matches (an extra 9 pts)
If we had beaten city at OT (we gain 3 they drop 3)
Then the gap comes down to 4pts, and think about some of those other matches we somehow managed to mess up.
I know its a lot of "ifs" but the point is that this league can be won or lost on the smallest of margins and even though we have played some absolute tripe this year we could have been within a few points of the media golden boys.
Even a modest improvement in our play next year should bring us challenging for the title.
We surely cant get worse if we bring in any sort of have decent player this summer so have faith.
If we hadn't lost to the 3 newly promoted teams and won those matches (an extra 9 pts)
If we had beaten city at OT (we gain 3 they drop 3)
Then the gap comes down to 4pts, and think about some of those other matches we somehow managed to mess up.
I know its a lot of "ifs" but the point is that this league can be won or lost on the smallest of margins and even though we have played some absolute tripe this year we could have been within a few points of the media golden boys.
Even a modest improvement in our play next year should bring us challenging for the title.
We surely cant get worse if we bring in any sort of have decent player this summer so have faith.
But Pogba and Sanchez especially have been poor, Mhiki is gone already and Lindelof and Bailly can't hold down a starting position.
Okay I will give him Matic as a good signing and Lukaku has been decent.
2 out of 7 is not great for 300 million.
City will win it again but we must get closer.
On the plus side, we're only £1.2bn of transfer spending away from having a decent XI.
On the plus side, we're only £1.2bn of transfer spending away from having a decent XI.
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From what I recall at Barca vs Madrid, it was Jose who kicked Pep out of the Spanish league.
Jose is not the kind to give up. He fights till the end. Pep on the other hand does seem to give up (he says he wants a new challenge, which is fair enough).
And to have such a negative, defeatist loser attitude isn't good. Not just in football, but in life. To succeed, people need to learn to fight. And to fight, they need to believe that they can win. Be it a job interview. Be it an exam. Be it anything in life.
I fully expect us to win the title next season. IMO, we have the best manager in charge (when it comes to results, with the available players) and given the results in the last 2 seasons, I see no reason to change this belief.
We are improving year on year and I think 90 points in the league is probably what we shall get next season. Now, if MCFC get more than 90 points....fair play to them, but I don't think they will.
The difference with City/United, though, is that City in 16/17 were actually putting in very good performances, results were just not going their way. xG had City as winning the league that season and was a good indicator that City would have the season they had in 17/18. City were dominating games and putting teams to the sword the same way they have this season, they were just often let down by a hapless goal keeper that lost the ability to save.
United have been the opposite. Performances on the whole haven't been good, but results have gone their way. I haven't seen enough progress from United this season to suggest that United can make up that gap in the same way that City have. Games have been won by very fine margins, rather than dominant, commanding performances. I would argue that United in 16/17 played better as a team than they have this season.
I would already settle for not playing such dire football but with Mou in charge I won't get my hopes up that even that happens.
You say it has nothing to do with how bad we are then go on to say Liverpool will be City's closest rivals. That is not acceptable.
This.
Aren't you a City fan?
You’re in for a rude awakening.
Fair points, but I can’t see us achieving 90 points next season. Depends on summer transfers I suppose.
City are a lot better than us right now, it’s clear to anyone watching the two teams. I don’t take joy in being defeatist, but it is what it is. I sincerely hope we’re much stronger next season and can actually put City under some pressure and see how they handle it.
@DomesticTadpole
Yeah I think as well Fergie before he finished had realised that things had become so competitive that important decisions could come down to goal difference so he wanted more goals and if I recall was angry at us not taking advantage of certain situations. City had a 38 goal swing on us with us having the lowest amount of goals scored out of the top 4. I do think they had a bit of a freak season and it will remain that unless they can repeat it.
I think the year before the average of the top 4 was 80+ so we need to be around that instead of the 68 of this year.
Yeah I think as well Fergie before he finished had realised that things had become so competitive that important decisions could come down to goal difference so he wanted more goals and if I recall was angry at us not taking advantage of certain situations. City had a 38 goal swing on us with us having the lowest amount of goals scored out of the top 4. I do think they had a bit of a freak season and it will remain that unless they can repeat it.
I think the year before the average of the top 4 was 80+ so we need to be around that instead of the 68 of this year.