[kps88]

He's on his way to becoming one of our most disappointing signings ever. He's been played in loads of systems under two very different managers and still looked underwhelming. Classic example of a player failing to make the step up to a big club.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Doing it well?

And if he only did the defensive side he wouldnt have been starting for France. He needs chances and momentum and yes, to improve some sloppy passing but hes shown he can do it in the past.

He never starts for France in competitive games and he barely made their final squad for the Euros. Let's get that out of the way.

I agree with you that he's solid defensively. Now, there are more than one ways to be good defensively in the midfield, so the real question is what he brings to the table? His biggest strengths are his stamina and his aggression combined with his tendency to close down the ball carrier in deeper areas. This is what he offers, the ability to press and regain possession when his team is defending.

The next question is what are his weaknesses? The most obvious one is his lack of positional awareness, he gets drawn to the ball quite often and therefore it's easy for clever attackers to create pockets of space in between our lines. As a result most managers are hesitant to utilize him as the holding/defensive midfielder in front of the back four. His second obvious weakness is his limited passing/ball carrying skills. You see, stealing the ball is one part of the process. Once this is achieved then you must be able to protect it yourself and either play the right pass through the lines or carry it forward yourself. In that sense, if you play him as a b2b midfielder, you'll basically have one less player when you are on the ball. That's where his displays at St. Mary's are overrated by posters on here. Besides two or three freak scorelines (the 8-0 against Sunderland springs to mind), Southampton were not a good team in the attacking half and they relied heavily on not conceding to win their matches. This isn't the case at United, we can't afford to have many players who can't contribute in both phases of the game.

As a bonus... Mourinho doesn't really value pressing, he opts for his teams to sit deep and absorb pressure. In that sense i can't see Morgan having a future here unless we see a change in tactics. He may be utilized in some games as a player who will come on to do a specific job on the pitch (the next two games we may see tactical alterations to our main plan) but i don't know if he will be a regular starter under Mourinho.

 

[redmeister]

Nah. He just isnt quite at that level. He has had his chances but almost every game goes missing. He has his uses of course, but he lacks the balls to be a leader in midfield and take responsibility on the ball to make anything happen. Probably a huge reason why Mourinho doesnt use him. Whats the point of him in midfield if he only does the defensive side of it?

But if you look at Wanyama's form this season and consider that Schneiderlin was the better of the 2, why can't Morgan play at his Southampton levels for a top team?

 

[bosnian_red]

But if you look at Wanyama's form this season and consider that Schneiderlin was the better of the 2, why can't Morgan play at his Southampton levels for a top team?

Schneiderlin was a different type of player. He is a very effective player in the right system, but you need more then his Southampton level in a big team. Big teams don't really need the role he had at Southampton, where his main qualities were pressing and harrying the opposition with his energy. He's not a holding midfielder really, or at least wasn't at Southampton. Doesn't have the right positional discipline for that but also on the ball he isn't good enough and doesn't really provide any creativity.

Even Wanyama. He hasn't been that great or anything. He is a solid player at what he does, and more of a defensive mid then Schneiderlin, but on the ball he is still nowhere near good enough for the best teams. Or at least not to start in.

 

[redmeister]

Schneiderlin was a different type of player. He is a very effective player in the right system, but you need more then his Southampton level in a big team. Big teams don't really need the role he had at Southampton, where his main qualities were pressing and harrying the opposition with his energy. He's not a holding midfielder really, or at least wasn't at Southampton. Doesn't have the right positional discipline for that but also on the ball he isn't good enough and doesn't really provide any creativity.

Even Wanyama. He hasn't been that great or anything. He is a solid player at what he does, and more of a defensive mid then Schneiderlin, but on the ball he is still nowhere near good enough for the best teams. Or at least not to start in.

In what league? Maybe the CL, but when I look at the midfields of the top Prem sides I really don't see anything special. Fernandinho, Fernando, Eric Dier, Danny Drinkwater, Francis Coquelin etc were all in the teams the finished in the top 4 last season.

 

[JaffyJoe]

Quite harsh criticism of Morgan in here we know what he can and can't do. he's better than Felliani and ha shown as much in his appearances thus far. He offers the same qualities as a Coquelin or Kante, so at this level where the majority of games you expect to have most of the ball and be forcing the issue he won't start, but he is good enough to be a squad player here.

 

[bosnian_red]

In what league? Maybe the CL, but when I look at the midfields of the top Prem sides I really don't see anything special. Fernandinho, Fernando, Eric Dier, Danny Drinkwater, Francis Coquelin etc were all in the teams the finished in the top 4 last season.

Ignore last season. Look at this season.
Fernandinho, Gundogan, Silva/kdb at City.
Xhaka, Cazorla and Ozil at Arsenal.
Spurs' overall team and work ethic is what makes it so functional (plus Dembele being a very good player in there). Take away Pochettino and Spurs overall would decline a lot, it's not really the players that make their team that good.
Liverpool play creative players all over the pitch, without strict positions for most of them.
At United, we are at our best when we play our most technical players like Herrera, Pogba, Carrick, Mata and soon to be Mkhitaryan I'm sure.

Schneiderlin isn't a patch on any of those and isn't good enough technically speaking nor does he ever take responsibility on the ball to do something. So if he isn't the type to be a pure holding midfielder and shield the back 4 really well, what the hell does he do? Like I said, at Southampton, he was not the defensive mid. That was Wanyama. He was used to harry the opposition and press players, provide extra solidity. Qualities that aren't needed at big clubs unless these players can actually do things on the ball. So until Schneiderlin shows he has ability on the ball and can pass it around well, he won't get a look in. Van Gaal bought him and then stopped using him because of how he was. Darmian has a similar mentality and never taking responsibility, and that's why neither of them are getting a look in under Mourinho.

Also, I don't understand why people keep going on about him not being at his Southampton's level here. Why would we want that? When you buy players from smaller clubs, you buy it in the hope that they can take the step up and raise their game to match new expectations, and improve on the qualities which we bought him for when surrounded by better players.

 

[Mike09]

Quite harsh criticism of Morgan in here we know what he can and can't do. he's better than Felliani and ha shown as much in his appearances thus far. He offers the same qualities as a Coquelin or Kante, so at this level where the majority of games you expect to have most of the ball and be forcing the issue he won't start, but he is good enough to be a squad player here.

You are overratting Schneiderlin too much. Schneiderlin hasn't done much to show that he offers the same quality as Kante. Schneiderlin can't even get into starting eleven ahead of Kante, Matuidi and Pogba. Schneiderlin even had to fight his spot with the likes of Lassana Diarra before Euro 2016. Fellaini on the other hand this season has done what people are expecting from Schneiderlin when we signed him last season. I think it's clear that playing good with Southampton level doesn't mean that player is good enough for Manchester United. I can't see us keeping him until end of the season.

 

[RedPed]

You are overratting Schneiderlin too much. Schneiderlin hasn't done much to show that he offers the same quality as Kante. Schneiderlin can't even get into starting eleven ahead of Kante, Matuidi and Pogba. Schneiderlin even had to fight his spot with the likes of Lassana Diarra before Euro 2016. Fellaini on the other hand this season has done what people are expecting from Schneiderlin when we signed him last season. I think it's clear that playing good with Southampton level doesn't mean that player is good enough for Manchester United. I can't see us keeping him until end of the season.

Agree. The guy's a goner. Should have gone to Everton who were linked with him briefly in the summer. I think Spurs would have been a bad move as they are already stacked in midfield like Arsenal.

 

[Ekeke]

He never starts for France in competitive games and he barely made their final squad for the Euros. Let's get that out of the way.

He did. Thats the point, he was starting for France so please read carefully.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

He did. Thats the point, he was starting for France so please read carefully.

He got in the squad for the World Cup in 2014 because of Ribery's injury. In the WC he only started in the final group match against Ecuador when France had already qualified and chose to rest players. He got in the final squad for the Euros because of Diarra's injury. He didn't play a single minute in the Euros. Since his first call back in 2014 he was featured in 14 friendlies and he was in the starting lineup in 7 of them. Hardly a regular starter for France.

 

[Ekeke]

He got in the squad for the World Cup in 2014 because of Ribery's injury. In the WC he only started in the final group match against Ecuador when France had already qualified and chose to rest players. He got in the final squad for the Euros because of Diarra's injury. He didn't play a single minute in the Euros. Since his first call back in 2014 he was featured in 14 friendlies and he was in the starting lineup in 7 of them. Hardly a regular starter for France.

And once again, if you actually read - I said he wouldn't have been starting for France if he can only defend. All you are doing is confirming that yes he did start for France. It doesn't matter how much, for how long or anything else. If he's only a one dimensional player he wouldn't have been starting at all.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

And once again, if you actually read - I said he wouldn't have been starting for France if he can only defend. All you are doing is confirming that yes he did start for France. It doesn't matter how much, for how long or anything else. If he's only a one dimensional player he wouldn't have been starting at all.

I understand what you're saying, not need to keep telling me to read again your previous post. My point is that he's a fringe player who has made it to the final squad in big tournaments because of injuries to other players. When i quoted you, i mentioned that despite Morgan being good defensively he has weaknesses in his game which prevent managers (in teams that aim to win most of their games, like United and France) to rely on him either as a DM or a b2b midfielder. Deschamps uses him in the b2b role behind Matuidi, Pogba and Sissoko as a player who will come on pitch from the bench in the last 20 minutes when France want to protect a lead. As for the DM role, after Diarra's injury, he opted to change formation and play Kante and Pogba deeper than usual than trust Morgan to screen the defense. After Deschamps and LvG, Mourinho follows the same route. Is it all coincidence?

 

[Ekeke]

I understand what you're saying, not need to keep telling me to read again your previous post. My point is that he's a fringe player who has made it to the final squad in big tournaments because of injuries to other players. When i quoted you, i mentioned that despite Morgan being good defensively he has weaknesses in his game which prevent managers (in teams that aim to win most of their games, like United and France) to rely on him either as a DM or a b2b midfielder. Deschamps uses him in the b2b role behind Matuidi, Pogba and Sissoko as a player who will come on pitch from the bench in the last 20 minutes when France want to protect a lead. As for the DM role, after Diarra's injury, he opted to change formation and play Kante and Pogba deeper than usual than trust Morgan to screen the defense. After Deschamps and LvG, Mourinho follows the same route. Is it all coincidence?

He's not as good as Kante or Pogba.

But he doesn't need to be.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

I'm not sure what his problem is but it certainly hasn't worked so far, this isn't the player I saw at Southampton full of energy closing people down, he looks a shadow of his former self, I'd rather he got loaned out than people like Depay as I think it would serve us better as he would have a chance of coming back in better form, I don't think Depay would do much other drop his value

 

[tomaldinho1]

I've never understood why people write him off so quickly. Under VG our midfield was just poor, mostly because of the system IMO. Under Mou he hasn't had a chance to play really so I don't feel it's fair to judge him.

At Southampton - amazing stats and reputation, I was clamouring for us to buy him
Under VG - average
Mou - nada

I still think he is our best anchor player and offers more than Fellaini. I would ideally want to see Herrera, Pog and him on the pitch together but that would be hard to fit into our system unless we sacrifice the traditional no10.

 

[RedSky]

I'm not sure what his problem is but it certainly hasn't worked so far, this isn't the player I saw at Southampton full of energy closing people down, he looks a shadow of his former self, I'd rather he got loaned out than people like Depay as I think it would serve us better as he would have a chance of coming back in better form, I don't think Depay would do much other drop his value

He hasn't got a partner that suits his style of play. We signed a square peg to fit a round hole.

 

[NoLogo]

I've never understood why people write him off so quickly. Under VG our midfield was just poor, mostly because of the system IMO. Under Mou he hasn't had a chance to play really so I don't feel it's fair to judge him.

At Southampton - amazing stats and reputation, I was clamouring for us to buy him
Under VG - average
Mou - nada

I still think he is our best anchor player and offers more than Fellaini. I would ideally want to see Herrera, Pog and him on the pitch together but that would be hard to fit into our system unless we sacrifice the traditional no10.

I think that's the main reason why people are writing him off. Even Fellaini is picked over him at the moment which in the eyes of a lot of us really spells doom for the lad.

 

[Dobbs]

He's not as good as Kante or Pogba.

But he doesn't need to be.

If he's to be a first choice midfielder here he definitely needs to be as good as Kante.

 

[Ekeke]

If he's to be a first choice midfielder here he definitely needs to be as good as Kante.

Kante was the best midfielder in the league last season. So no he doesn't need to be. He just needs to do a good job and allow the other superior players around him - Pogba, etc, be the ones to rival Kante as the best in their positions.

 

[Dobbs]

Kante was the best midfielder in the league last season. So no he doesn't need to be. He just needs to do a good job and allow the other superior players around him - Pogba, etc, be the ones to rival Kante as the best in their positions.

I disagree, a United first choice centre midfielder has to be as good as Kante. If we want to be a threat in the Champions League again that has to be the standard. Look at the quality of midfielders it's taken to win us the ECL in the past. You're talking world class talent and even then we only just won it. So you can't afford to be a United midfielder and just do a job.

Ultimately he's just not good enough on the ball. I'm sure he's better than what he's shown so far but you can just see the innate technique isn't there. I wanted him here but I was wrong.

 

[Ekeke]

I disagree, a United first choice centre midfielder has to be as good as Kante. If we want to be a threat in the Champions League again that has to be the standard. Look at the quality of midfielders it's taken to win us the ECL in the past. You're talking world class talent and even then we only just won it. So you can't afford to be a United midfielder and just do a job.

Ultimately he's just not good enough on the ball. I'm sure he's better than what he's shown so far but you can just see the innate technique isn't there. I wanted him here but I was wrong.

You're trying to run before we can even walk.

We are currently not the best team in the country let alone worrying about Europe. A player like Schneiderlin can give the team balance if he does his job well.

 

[Dobbs]

You're trying to run before we can even walk.

We are currently not the best team in the country let alone worrying about Europe. A player like Schneiderlin can give the team balance if he does his job well.

We're throwing 100's of millions around like confetti. We don't have to play an OK midfielder like Scheiderlin for a couple of years when we have the resources to buy the best.

We've already been away from the pinnacle for too long. Let's not extend that exile by unnecessarily playing a midfielder who ultimately isn't good enough to be at the top. Which to be fair we're not doing, he's barely featured.

 

[NYAS]

One of the biggest reasons he's "been a disappointment" is because supposedly world-class managers don't understand the type of player he is and use him in the wrong way.

He's not a holder. He's not a passer. He was never going to be Carrick's replacement. They share none of the same strengths. He's a mobile, defensive box-to-box player in the mould of Kante, Matuidi, Khedira and others. He's good at tackling, he has good stamina, but doesn't have the positional discipline, vision and composure to hold. That's just not the type of player he is and it was abundantly clear from the beginning - I don't understand why so many people expected him to be such a player.

Given that understanding and the relevant expectations, overall I think he's done better here than is described in this thread and I'm happy with him as a squad option.

 

[Ekeke]

We're throwing 100's of millions around like confetti. We don't have to play an OK midfielder like Scheiderlin for a couple of years when we have the resources to buy the best.

We've already been away from the pinnacle for too long. Let's not extend that exile by unnecessarily playing a midfielder who ultimately isn't good enough to be at the top. Which to be fair we're not doing, he's barely featured.

Schneiderlin was one of those players we bought for a large sum of money because it was determined he would be an improvement. So that tells us A) We have a player that can do the job or B) We arent very good at using that money, and throwing more around doesn't mean you'll have someone better than he is.

 

[Scholesy]

Schneiderlin is a very good player and has somehow been made a scapegoat

 

[RedPed]

This is why we have fallen behind as we're happy to accept mediocrity instead of striving for the best. He's not being made a scapegoat, he's not just not as good as people keep making out. They keep going on about how good he was at Southampton....well he ain't there anymore. Depay was the best player in Holland when we signed him. Look at how that's panned out.

 

[Ekeke]

This is why we have fallen behind as we're happy to accept mediocrity instead of striving for the best. He's not being made a scapegoat, he's not just not as good as people keep making out. They keep going on about how good he was at Southampton....well he ain't there anymore. Depay was the best player in Holland when we signed him. Look at how that's panned out.

It was another premier league team, and he put in some outstanding performances against us. Clearly very different to another league.

 

[AndyJ1985]

It was another premier league team, and he put in some outstanding performances against us. Clearly very different to another league.

Loads of players (including Fellaini) put in good performances against our weak as piss midfield. Even Charlie Adam used to bully us.

 

[Ekeke]

Loads of players (including Fellaini) put in good performances against our weak as piss midfield. Even Charlie Adam used to bully us.

As a forward player.

 

[JaffyJoe]

You are overratting Schneiderlin too much. Schneiderlin hasn't done much to show that he offers the same quality as Kante. Schneiderlin can't even get into starting eleven ahead of Kante, Matuidi and Pogba. Schneiderlin even had to fight his spot with the likes of Lassana Diarra before Euro 2016. Fellaini on the other hand this season has done what people are expecting from Schneiderlin when we signed him last season. I think it's clear that playing good with Southampton level doesn't mean that player is good enough for Manchester United. I can't see us keeping him until end of the season.

I am talking about a players skill set here. Kanye, Coquelin and Schneiderlin are the same kind of players they are in the team to break up play and give the ball to more talented teammates, none are going to blow you mind away on the ball, none are going to build up play for you. So from that perspective they are on a similar level. Lassana Diarra is a good dm for the record. He can defend and he's good on the ball. The most talented out of that list including Matuidi but let's not get sidetracked. What choices a manager makes is up to him it doesn't really impact my opinion on what a player is capable of once I've watched them enough.

Schnedierlin is good enough to be a squad player here and he would start in certain games.

 

[K2K]

Quite harsh criticism of Morgan in here we know what he can and can't do. he's better than Felliani and ha shown as much in his appearances thus far. He offers the same qualities as a Coquelin or Kante, so at this level where the majority of games you expect to have most of the ball and be forcing the issue he won't start, but he is good enough to be a squad player here.

He has not shown to be better than Fellaini.

That's why two managers have preferred the Belgian ahead of him.
Schneiderlin has been subpar so far here.I expected so much more and it has been rather disappointing to watch.

 

[criticalanalysis]

I said it about Herrera and I'll say it again but once Schneiderlin is given chances he will prove all doubters wrong. He barely had a chance to really prove his worth or the lack of it under LVG (who chopped, changed and played Rooney to death at the detriment to the team).

 

[Ban]

Strange he's getting so much stick here. He has barely played and I'm sure he'll prove his worth if he'll play more. Most of the time was crap last year, all players deserve to prove themselves under Mourinho.

 

[Sammyjunn]

People are so content with average and mediocre players, how long do some of you need to see a player doesnt have the required level. Waiting 3 years doesnt mean he'll get to the required level suddenly. He is a 6-8 position table player, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Jaybomb]

Really want him to succeed here but it doesn't look like he's ever gonna get the chances. He played well under Van Gaal and was still dropped.

Mourinho clearly rates Fellaini and Herrera ahead of him. Possibly even Carrick and Rooney aswell considering he's started more Premier League games this season at CM than Schneiderlin has, from what I can recall.

If we do sell him, I hope we can get 30m for him. Liverpool sold Benteke to Palace for the 32m they paid for him. We definitely shouldn't cut our losses on him considering he hasn't really "gotten worse" since joining us.

I don't see why we don't go for a

Schneiderlin
Herrera-Pogba

Midfield trio. Seems like the obvious choice to me.

 

[Red_toad]

People are so content with average and mediocre players, how long do some of you need to see a player doesnt have the required level. Waiting 3 years doesnt mean he'll get to the required level suddenly. He is a 6-8 position table player, nothing more, nothing less.

As Leicester won the league with (in my opinion) far lesser players, how does the bolded part even make sense? Beggers belief how such statements are ever made. Sell Morgan to Liverpool and he'd look twice the player he has so far for us.

 

[roonster09]

People are so content with average and mediocre players, how long do some of you need to see a player doesnt have the required level. Waiting 3 years doesnt mean he'll get to the required level suddenly. He is a 6-8 position table player, nothing more, nothing less.

Liverpool players looked bottom half table players when Rodgers was in charge and now they are playing some great football, especially players like Lallana, Lovern who didn't look like good players at all, then there are players at Chelsea who played lot worse last season. Looks like Schneiderlin confidence is in bits, he is a good player might not work out at United but there is a reason why even Arsenal wanted to sign him when we did.

 

[Sammyjunn]

As Leicester won the league with (in my opinion) far lesser players, how does the bolded part even make sense? Beggers belief how such statements are ever made. Sell Morgan to Liverpool and he'd look twice the player he has so far for us.

Kante and Drinkwater have more ability than him. And lets hold Leicester as the standard and not like something that happens once in a ...

 

[Sammyjunn]

Liverpool players looked bottom half table players when Rodgers was in charge and now they are playing some great football, especially players like Lallana, Lovern who didn't look like good players at all, then there are players at Chelsea who played lot worse last season. Looks like Schneiderlin confidence is in bits, he is a good player might not work out at United but there is a reason why even Arsenal wanted to sign him when we did.

He's been poor for France (barely getting a look in, poor under van Gaal and clearly not rated by Mourinho, I dont really know what makes you think he"d be twice the player if he played at Liverpool.