Aspects of his game remind me of players like Kante or Ramires who used to play for Chelsea (who I thought was a great player at his peak, but is largely forgotten about). Obviously not as good as Kante defensively, but better going forwards. But it's the way he glides over the ground so quickly and is able to actually go past players though. He's really comfortable on the ball but I still think he can and will improve there. He'll be a monster of a player whoever gets him.
Moises Caicedo | Chelsea agree £115M fee | signed for Chelsea
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Aspects of his game remind me of players like Kante or Ramires who used to play for Chelsea (who I thought was a great player at his peak, but is largely forgotten about). Obviously not as good as Kante defensively, but better going forwards. But it's the way he glides over the ground so quickly and is able to actually go past players though. He's really comfortable on the ball but I still think he can and will improve there. He'll be a monster of a player whoever gets him.
Will be interesting to see how much he goes for given he looks like he’s going from strength to strength at the business end of the season.
@UTAretro, what do you think is a fair price for him, and how much over it do you think he’ll be sold for?
Hi mate.
The prior offer of £75m in January from Arsenal, followed by the signing of a long new contract has set a minimum baseline of the fee if he should move in the summer. The question then becomes who can/will pay the most, with Bloom selling to the highest bidder.
Caicedo (and his agent) have made it very clear that he wants a move to a big club. Quotes from him and his representative have described Manchester United, Arsenal and Real Madrid all as a “dream move” in the recent past. Put simply, I don’t think they have a preference except for Champions League football and a huge payday.
I think the fee is likely to be in the £90m-£100m region personally, but I can see it dragging on all summer. I also think the Mac Allister situation won’t be helping matters, if Mac were to go it would add even more to the “do not want to sell” aspect of the fee.
I think 100 million would be a bit over the top. Probably 30-35 million over the top at least. He's good but not that good. Seems unaffordable unless there are a million installments, and even then, it's just kicking the can down the road. The problem is, until we know the ownership situation, throwing 100 million around requires a lot of thought. We have to base it off the current finances, that's all we can do, and they're not really in a position to go hard on Caicedo at that fee plus strikers that also cost a fortune.
Surely at this point we need to look at the ‘next’ Caicedo, as we simply won’t be able to afford him with at top class striker & 2/3 other signings.
Caicedo and Kane would be completely transformative. Really energy, drive and guile in midfield, coupled with guaranteed goals no matter how badly the team is playing.
We need real guaranteed quality and this guy is proving he can do it against any team in the league.
We need real guaranteed quality and this guy is proving he can do it against any team in the league.
He’s not costing £100m. They raised his price because as they said.. they didn’t want to sell in January. They will sell in the summer for probably the fee Arsenal was willing to pay.
His contract was a nice incentive considering he was on peanuts. Plus it helps him secure a better contract at a bigger club. Not use obviously as we have no problem giving away £100k plus contracts regardless of what the player was previously on.
Yeah but we’re going to have to pencil in £100m for our next striker. Then, say, £70m for Caicedo would leave very little for the remaining priorities (GK, CB, RB) as we’re likely to have to sell to spend £170m as it is.
Surely there was some agreement made when he signed the contract that he'd be let go if a certain price is met and he stays until end of the season or even end of next season, as opposed to this Jan.
Brighton fans seem insistent that Bloom just doesn't do this, either formally or informally. He is a gambler, after all, and has 'gambled ' or staked on a number of very good growth decisions (looking from the outside) in terms of where to spend his money around scouting and recruitment teams and buying 'potential' players to fit into a certain - risky- playing style, but I wonder if medium-term (if they don't take the next step up) this won't backfire and they have some disgruntled players in 18 months..
Swap them for MG
We’ll be alright. As long as the Glazers don’t own the club we will have money.
Fair enough and to be honest, I'd like to see teams like Brighton start to keep hold of their quality players and add to them. Eventually they have to if they want to progress as they will not always be able to replace these quality players with untested talents with success. That's how clubs with that model end up plummeting down the table like Leicester, Southampton, etc.
Yeah, it's not like for like - and I'm sure Brighton fans will further correct me - but Leicester seems like a decent comparison (setting aside their weird miraculous pl win and the following, slightly bizarre season of slumps and european adventures) in terms of establishing themselves as a team competing for european places and amongst 'best of the rest' and winning a cup but then hitting a ceiling in terms of their model as well as the manager's cycle. I'm sure Zerbi is going to do well with them next season too, but Rodgers has also had v. strong back to back seasons and has proved to be a good coach but one whose projects have a limited timespan and with flaws that emerge by the third season.
Can someone here explain to me why anyone would want to pay Brighton £80m or more for him when ugarte’s release clause is £53m?
Martin Zubimendi
Isn't Caicedo more of an all-rounder? His stats at least suggest he offers more going forward than Ugarte.
Caicedo's almost certainly better on the ball and generally more versatile. Brighton fans have talked about the advantage of his being able to push up and drive moves as well as intervening and recycling the ball. Ugarte I guess would work OK alongside a De Jong stand-in, or someone who can do all parts of that number 8 role, including dictating pace, playmaking, driving with the ball etc, though maybe I just havent seen enough of Ugarte...
I repeat this too often, but, if I'm one of these players, like Caicedo, who's been pursued already by big clubs (as he was before brighton, i..e by us) and is confident of making it at very highest level at a United or Madrid, why not counteroffer Bloom/ his team and take short-term lower basic wage in return for a release clause, or otherwise just not sign the contract. Same goes for Ferguson and his new deal.
The Caicedo thing started with ridiculous agent situation, so this also needs to be regulated worldwide and no player allowed to be registered without being signed to a single agent (with none of this 'buying rights in players' on the part of private individuals) otherwise they can't sign for a UEFA club, for instance, or any club that does sign players registered illegitimately can be severely punished etc. But that's beyond the scope of the club of course
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In the short term Brighton are banking a £60 million profit from the last accounts and a net gain of £100 million since then on transfer of their squad players, so there is no urgency to sell cheap. Mwebu has not been replaced and there is an injury problem at right back. Even football economics says BHA are more likely to buy. I don't think Caicedo can be replaced and will stay at Brighton for two or three summers.
https://www.scoutedftbl.com/best-young-football-players/moises-caicedo/
https://www.scoutedftbl.com/best-young-football-players/moises-caicedo/
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I like zubimendi a lot, but I prefer ugarte who scores higher on every metric and is younger - btw I think arsenal have just activated sociedad’s release clause which is pretty much the same as what ugarte’s release clause is.
They tried to replace him with Haidara in January. I’m sure they will go back for him.
They’ve already brought the striker from Watford.
Really? Good signing for them. I like Zubimendi more as he seems more athletic but tell me if I’m wrong. I had the same opinion about Paulinho and man I was wrong.
Same reason some footballers go for 100m and other footballers go for 50m. The more expensive player is seen as the better player and better option.
Maybe because Caicedo scores higher on every metric and is younger?
See this gets said a lot about his all round ability, but I’m not sure it’s true. Ugarte‘s defensive numbers are beastly and only Luis (who has a quoted release clause of over £100m) is doing better from the stats I’ve seen. His short passing numbers are better than caicedo, the long passing not as good but caicedo is hardly a world beater according to those metrics. He appears to be both more athletic and more mobile too, and only a year older. So why pay almost double for caicedo?
Haidara is too old or too expensive. Striker replaces Trossard. Mwebu (midfield) has not been replaced.
I'm wondering if # of successful tackles are less important in the grand scheme of things for a big club than the ability to control a midfield, but having said a closer look at the statistics Ugarte does seem like he compares well with Ugarte, as you said, so perhaps it's bit closer between them than I thought.
He’s 25. How much is too expensive.
I’m obviously looking at this from a Liverpool perspective which is significantly different from what you need at united, because you have one of the most effective ball winners around in Casemiro.
We have barely a functioning midfield and with Fabinho falling off a cliff we desperately need a ball winner in midfield to get a hold of it quickly and effectively - according to the numbers if money was no object that’d be paying luis’s release clause but that’s eye watering at £107m and ugarte is the next best thing defensively according to the numbers.
From a united perspective if you’re playing Casemiro as a 6 you most definitely don’t need a caicedo. You either need a deep creator 8 who can do some of the dirty work if you’re playing a double pivot or you need a more mobile industrious 8 like a macallister who can carry the ball and put in a defensive shift in if you’re shifting to a 3 man midfield with Fernandes as the third player.
I seriously can’t see why either club would be paying > £80m for caicedo. Clearly arteta agrees as he’s moved on to zubimendi.
I think both Caicedo and Ugarte look like quite special talents and would make pretty much any side a better team IMO.
That being said, I do agree we need a more creative 8, hence the chasing of De Jong last summer. Would be very intrigued by someone like Bennacer as the alternative to De Jong, who fits what you’ve described to a tee - although don’t think we’ve had any real links to him.
The only comparable Brighton example is Mark LAWRENSON of the 20th century. He was sold to Liverpool at about age 25 for a high fee at the time. Liverpool won just about everything and Brighton got relegated and almost went bust.
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Is there a secret encryption I’m suppose to unlock here?
It's the prem tax though isn't it? Bigger teams need more certainty they'd adapt to the league, so pay more. I personally would be far more interested in Ugarte at the price point, but if big teams have the money and they decide Caicedo is the guy, it's worth the extra money in their eyes. I believe Ugarte played further forward when he was younger as well, so he's technically very proficient. I really liked him against Arsenal and he reminded me massively of Casemiro - red card included!
I'm not convinced the prem proven thing is really a thing, as players regularly come over straight from "farmers leagues" and perform.
Annoying lack of links to us and Ugarte. He’s pretty much linked with every other top club in the prem other than us and City (because they don’t need) - Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs.
I really really like Caicedo, think he’d be so damn good alongside Casemiro and Bruno. £80-100m is a lot of money though given we also have a top class striker and a CB to sign at a minimum this summer.
Unless we get a Qatari takeover and we’re comfortable doing some Chelsea-style transfers I’d prefer we go for Ugarte to leave more budget for other areas.
I really really like Caicedo, think he’d be so damn good alongside Casemiro and Bruno. £80-100m is a lot of money though given we also have a top class striker and a CB to sign at a minimum this summer.
Unless we get a Qatari takeover and we’re comfortable doing some Chelsea-style transfers I’d prefer we go for Ugarte to leave more budget for other areas.
Yeah definitely crying out for midfield playmaker,however we also need some energy and mobility for the big games too
Yeah his strong links to the scousers are worrying and if you add Mac Allister too then that is significant improvement to their midfield
What does this mean Perseusbot?
Sadly that Enzo's and Tchouaméni fee kinda distort the market. Not to mention an inferior player like Rice was quoted 100m. Caicedo is much much proven and better than those.
So expecting 90-100m is fair by Brighton.
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