Modern Draft Semifinals: Moby Vs. Enigma/TRV

Who will win this match

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
MJJ said:
Erm isn't verratti as a DM worse than Saul as a DM? The guy is a bit notorious for not being the most defensivelh astute and putting a shift in?
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He is playing as a deep-lying playmaker, different to how Saul was operating. Saul is still very much a massive part of the defensive unit off the ball, and will hardly be stationed a few yards to what he was.

It isn't a personnel switch but a tactical one. I have shifted the defensive line deeper to accommodate the DLP and have instructed the team to play more on the counter with Verratti pinging balls from that area with full vision of the pitch.

Also in view of the slight lead my team would have around this time and going forward, I'd use this tactic to protect that lead.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Yes it is, but Moby so far gets free pass on both!
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Listen, if you want to have a decent objective discussion about the match up, I'm game. No need to be sarcy and post silly irrelevant digs again and again which have nothing to do with the game. It's a draft game and not worth getting passive aggressive about.
 
Moby said:
He is playing as a deep-lying playmaker, different to how Saul was operating. Saul is still very much a massive part of the defensive unit off the ball, and will hardly be stationed a few yards to what he was.

It isn't a personnel switch but a tactical one. I have shifted the defensive line deeper to accommodate the DLP and have instructed the team to play more on the counter with Verratti pinging balls from that area with full vision of the pitch.

Also in view of the slight lead my team would have around this time and going forward, I'd use this tactic to protect that lead.
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:lol::lol:Come on mate it was tied like half an hour ago you are making things up. Now you are sitting back and assuming pressure so that means Di Maria and Saul will be constantly on the flanks. Kroos and James will tear Verratti a new one in the center.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Same goes for both Di Maria and Verratti (till half time) and also Saul. In diamond formation it's more likely Di Maria and Saul/Verratti BOTH to start BEHIND Carvajal when you are on counter. Or you are playing possession football?
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No, I am playing on quick breaks as well, and will be counting on my players to outrun yours, especially my forwards vs your defenders.
 
Moby said:
Listen, if you want to have a decent objective discussion about the match up, I'm game. No need to be sarcy and post silly irrelevant digs again and again which have nothing to do with the game. It's a draft game and not worth getting passive aggressive about.
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So far only @2mufc0 has questioned your midfield from the voters, I'm discussing the game nothing aggressive about it mate :)
 
Enigma_87 said:
:lol::lol:Come on mate it was tied like half an hour ago you are making things up. Now you are sitting back and assuming pressure so that means Di Maria and Saul will be constantly on the flanks. Kroos and James will tear Verratti a new one in the center.
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I don't think I have enough patience to explain you how a diamond midfield works. Your criticism about the wide CMs has been bizarre from the off as pointed out by others, so I'd agree to disagree here.
 
Moby said:
No, I am playing on quick breaks as well, and will be counting on my players to outrun yours, especially my forwards vs your defenders.
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What does it have to do with us now (obviously) controlling the game and Di Maria/Saul constantly on the wings covering for our full backs?
If you put Di Maria and Saul both on the wings when off the ball that means James and Kroos will get plenty of luck against your DM- in this case deep lying playmaker.

We will stretch you out when we're in possession meaning both Saul and Di Maria will have to defend the wings.
 
Moby said:
I don't think I have enough patience to explain you how a diamond midfield works. Your criticism about the wide CMs has been bizarre from the off as pointed out by others, so I'd agree to disagree here.
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You yourself mentioned how Verratti's best came when he has had a defensive midfielder/holding midfielder (Motta) and another box-box midfielder (Matuidi) alongside him to do the dirty work. Saul is a hard-working midfielder and can replicate the Matuidi role to a certain extent but there's no one in your team to do what Motta did for Verratti to thrive.

Here are Verratti's past managers on his lack of discipline hurting the team.

Laurent Blanc on Marco Verratti's indiscipline against Lille:- "We've been telling him for two years and it's always the same thing."

Unai Emery:- "Marco must learn from his experience - positive or negative. He has a lot of character and temperament. We have spoken with him several times. Marco has shown his frustration in some matches. He is PSG's future and he knows that he has to improve this side of his game."
 
Enigma_87 said:
What does it have to do with us now (obviously) controlling the game and Di Maria/Saul constantly on the wings covering for our full backs?
If you put Di Maria and Saul both on the wings when off the ball that means James and Kroos will get plenty of luck against your DM- in this case deep lying playmaker.
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They won't be constantly on the wings. The ball won't be on both the wings at the same time. If Di Maria is helping out wide, Saul will move inwards and maintain the numbers. Same for the other way around.

I'm really sorry, but I can't be arsed to go through such elementary stuff. This has nothing to do with the game but the basics of how a diamond midfield would function. I'm not being rude, I'm exhausted at this time of the night, nothing else.
 
Moby said:
They won't be constantly on the wings. The ball won't be on both the wings at the same time. If Di Maria is helping out wide, Saul will move inwards and maintain the numbers. Same for the other way around.

I'm really sorry, but I can't be arsed to go through such elementary stuff. This has nothing to do with the game but the basics of how a diamond midfield would function. I'm not being rude, I'm exhausted at this time of the night, nothing else.
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You don't need to get rude or defensive about it mate. We have the ball both of our full backs go up the pitch. You either have both Di Maria and Saul/Verrratti covering them or you have them in center midfield and no one is covering them.

From your explanation of the diamond then no one is covering them and they are left 2 against one (along with Hazard and Sanchez), got it.

Even if the ball is not on both wings you have to cover the spare man on the other wing, or in your case what you are saying is that you don't.
 
You are also ignoring Rooney and Griezmann in the midfield area.

Especially when I've gone deeper, they will be help out a lot more there. And both did just that at their primes. Even without their contribution I can maintain the numbers in the middle, with them, I have the added advantage of having quality players being able to contribute in both phases. They will provide immense energy and hunger to win the ball back, especially Rooney and that's going to be a real thorn in your stride.
 
Enigma_87 said:
You don't need to get rude or defensive about it mate. We have the ball both of our full backs go up the pitch. You either have both Di Maria and Saul/Verrratti covering them or you have them in center midfield and no one is covering them.

From your explanation of the diamond then no one is covering them and they are left 2 against one (along with Hazard and Sanchez), got it.

Even if the ball is not on both wings you have to cover the spare man on the other wing, or in your case what you are saying is that you don't.
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Delighted to have you both your winbacks bomb forward on every attack. Mbappe and Rooney can simply bypass your CBs down the channels and run onto Verratti's lobs scoring off every other transition.

This is the closest you'll actually get to getting caught on the counter in a fantasy game. Absolutely what I wanted you to do!
 
Moby said:
You are also ignoring Rooney and Griezmann in the midfield area.

Especially when I've gone deeper, they will be help out a lot more there. And both did just that at their primes. Even without their contribution I can maintain the numbers in the middle, with them, I have the added advantage of having quality players being able to contribute in both phases. They will provide immense energy and hunger to win the ball back, especially Rooney and that's going to be a real thorn in your stride.
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You keep backtracking from your own comments. Is Verratti now the top class DM that protects your back four? Despite both his managers accusing him of lack of discipline?
 
Moby said:
Delighted to have you both your winbacks bomb forward on every attack. Mbappe and Rooney can simply bypass your CBs down the channels and run onto Verratti's lobs scoring off every other transition.
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When you pick the ball from your net as you have your full backs constantly in numerical disadvantage they will track back, no worries :)
 
Enigma_87 said:
When you pick the ball from your net as you have your full backs constantly in numerical disadvantage they will track back, no worries :)
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Yeah I definitely don't see you scoring against a swarm of defenders and midfielders with little spaces and two top notch CBs guarding the goal who are especially quality in easily defending against crosses being pumped from out wide. Hardly the same free runs you have just gifted my forwards.
 
Moby said:
Yeah I definitely don't see you scoring against a swarm of defenders and midfielders with little spaces and two top notch CBs guarding the goal who are especially quality in easily defending against crosses being pumped from out wide. Hardly the same free runs you have just gifted my forwards.
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So now you are sitting back, yet from the beginning battling for getting the lion's share of the possession.

This is getting nowhere mate.

If you want you can address all questions (not cherry pick them):


- When Di Maria loses the ball high up the pitch who is covering Carvajal / Sanchez?
- Who is covering the left flank when we have the ball and Sandro and Hazard overload Zabaleta?
- Who is covering the right flank when we have the ball and Carvajal and Sanchez overload Asamoah?
- Are you playing possession football (something you rather implied) or counter?
- If you are sitting back doesn't that mean that your defenders will get overwhelmed on the flanks?
- If you are not sitting back does Griezmann and Saul enjoy possession football or it's exactly the opposite?
- Is now Verratti man marking James? What happened to that?
- When did Asamoah play (and for which club) as a left back in back 4 and how good he was?

and let the voters decide :)
 
Enigma_87 said:
If you want you can address all questions (not cherry pick them):
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Why the hell do you keep repeating the same questions when I have answered them, somehow trying to get the readers to believe that I have avoided them?

Another one in a series of misleading tactics right from the off.
 
Moby said:
Why the hell do you keep repeating the same questions when I have answered them, somehow trying to get the readers to believe that I have avoided them?

Another one in a series of misleading tactics right from the off.
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You really haven't, but again up to you. There's no point going in circles, let the voters decide.

For Asamoah he hasn't really been mentioned as a LB in a back four but as I've said you have evaded them well.
 
Moby said:
There are literally questions in that list to which exact answers are there. Do you want me to quote all the posts to show that you are clearly lying here?
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sure go ahead. There are questions that aren't answered which I implied. Show me where you have explained Asamoah's role?

Btw:

Moby said:
Diamond has one deep-lying playmaker, two CMs and one advanced playmaker.

I CANNOT EDUCATE YOU IN THESE BASICS FFS.
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Moby said:
As long as they were defending out wide, what difference does it make?

I'm not playing a diamond either, doesn't matter how many times you misquote my OP.
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:smirk:
 
Enigma_87 said:
- When Di Maria loses the ball high up the pitch who is covering Carvajal / Sanchez?
- Who is covering the left flank when we have the ball and Sandro and Hazard overload Zabaleta?
- Who is covering the right flank when we have the ball and Carvajal and Sanchez overload Asamoah?
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Here are the questions.

Moby said:
Carvajal is tucking in defending BEHIND Di Maria or pushed forward for a counter? Can't be at two places at once. Di Maria wont stop running after losing the ball, so there's no counter there.


Saul.


Di Maria.
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Here are the answers.

Why are they asked again?
 
Moby said:
Here are the questions.


Here are the answers.

Why are they asked again?
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3 out of 8. I mentioned not to cherry pick them, but as I've said enough spam, if you want to entertain them go ahead, otherwise no point.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Are you playing possession football (something you rather implied) or counter?
- If you are sitting back doesn't that mean that your defenders will get overwhelmed on the flanks?
- If you are not sitting back does Griezmann and Saul enjoy possession football or it's exactly the opposite?
- Is now Verratti man marking James? What happened to that?
- When did Asamoah play (and for which club) as a left back in back 4 and how good he was?
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Counter
No
Im sitting back
No
Juventus. He was pretty good. He is playing as LB in a back 4 this season as well.
 
These are some points, to which you cannot have an answer.

- Mbappe exposing Hummels lack of pace time and again.
- Rooney exposing Gimenez lack of quality.
- Mbappe and Rooney in 2v2 vs those two CBs, creating chances in combinations.
- Griezmann dropping between the lines, creating chances for the front two, using their channel width to attack the box.
- Verratti's deep lying prowess creating numerous chances for the forwards while playing on the counter. Trademark over the shoulder lobs releasing Mbappe behind Hummels and 1v1 on goal.
- Easily the best CB pair in the game with a truly exceptional CB in Varane who will hold the fort.
- Wide CMs charging forward in attack, pinning back the wide-men and restricting their output. Similarly well capable of defending out wide and nullifying their advantage.
 
I am voting for Enigma’s more cohesive and balanced XI, who possesses the right balance of playmakers, workhorses and genuine width.
 
Moby said:
These are some points, to which you cannot have an answer.

- Mbappe exposing Hummels lack of pace time and again.
- Rooney exposing Gimenez lack of quality.
- Mbappe and Rooney in 2v2 vs those two CBs, creating chances in combinations.
- Griezmann dropping between the lines, creating chances for the front two, using their channel width to attack the box.
- Verratti's deep lying prowess creating numerous chances for the forwards while playing on the counter. Trademark over the shoulder lobs releasing Mbappe behind Hummels and 1v1 on goal.
- Easily the best CB pair in the game with a truly exceptional CB in Varane who will hold the fort.
- Wide CMs charging forward in attack, pinning back the wide-men and restricting their output. Similarly well capable of defending out wide and nullifying their advantage.
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- you are sitting back - you will get a lot less chances and also Gimenez is our stopper not Hummels.
- Gimenez has proven himself at the highest level.
- they will be starved of possession seeing you are sitting back.
- again starved of possession.
- Same goes for Kroos finding the wings and exposing your full backs.
- Van Dijk has been good for 1- seasons so far, Liverpool is his first big club so it's not easily the best CB pair.
- leaving tons of space behind for our wingers to exploit.
 
Moby said:
@Indnyc please make this tactical update as close to half time or whenever you see this and please add the change instruction somewhere in the OP tagged as 'tactical update'. Might be going off soon hence posting now.

With the teams neck to neck and mine likely to be in the lead around the half way mark, a slight tactical change in midfield. After a mammoth first half holding the fort at the back, Saul is released as the right sided shuttling box-to-box midfielder allowing him to use his energy off the ball in defending out wide as well charging forward pinning Sandro back and providing late runs into the box if needed. Verratti moves central into the position of a deep lying midfielder, provides further stability and control to that area, shores up the defense and is instructed to play those trademarks lobs from deep to onrushing forwards up front. The team plays slightly deeper than before, inviting the opposition and hitting them on the counter, especially out wide with their wingbacks committed forward.

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Done and updated OP
 
I am not sure of the tactical change @Moby

Think Verrati brings a lot more guile from the right sided midfield role.. What is the logic of making him the deepest defensive midfielder?
 
Moby said:
He is playing as a deep-lying playmaker, different to how Saul was operating. Saul is still very much a massive part of the defensive unit off the ball, and will hardly be stationed a few yards to what he was.

It isn't a personnel switch but a tactical one. I have shifted the defensive line deeper to accommodate the DLP and have instructed the team to play more on the counter with Verratti pinging balls from that area with full vision of the pitch.

Also in view of the slight lead my team would have around this time and going forward, I'd use this tactic to protect that lead.
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This + largely transfer the game from a high tempo back and forth it was earlier to a more controlled affair providing an orchestrator in the middle of the CBs, FBs and CMs, who would be pulling the strings and playing as a traditional deep lying playmaker. Saul and Di Maria, as well as Griezmann and Rooney will still pretty much work 100% off the ball and provide a lot of the same. Only Mbappe is exempt from off the ball work and will preserve his energy for burning Hummels to an absolute crisp.

It's a bit of a breather after an all action first half, and now, we will be protecting the lead (not just going by votes, but for me, the way both the teams set out, our would have the better chance in getting that first goal as we went out all out attack), and now we are more interested in tiring them out and constantly looking for openings and counters through the deep passing from Verratti, ball carrying prowess of Di Maria and Saul and Griezmann's final ball, with Rooney and Mbappe engaging in those unreal counters that we saw happen between Rooney, Ronaldo, Park etc.

@Indnyc
 
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