Modern Draft QF: Enigma/TRV vs Indnyc

[The Red Viper]

I think he is perfectly fine for the role..

PFA Team of the year in 2009-10; Manchester United Player's player of the year 2011-12 and 2016-17;



His credentials in a long career are pretty good and certainly better than what for example Ghoulam has achieved so far. If Ghoulam is fine for later rounds of this draft i don't see how Valencia is not?

The thing is Valencia is playing in a position where he would be required to make a huge difference in terms of providing an outlet. Valencia was a good player but even at his peak he was kinda one-dimensional. Hit the ball and then use your pace outrun the opposition full-back. What you need to do is simply show him to his left foot, which makes him slow down the tempo by taking lot of extra touches to again revert back to the hit & run mode. And thats what Ghoulam would do. Encourage Valencia to cut inside by showing him to his left foot.

Valencia in a nutshell really:-

 

[Don Alfredo]

Those highlights are just the worst. He's made like 1 good cross there.

On the contrary, it plays right into our hands no?

Kante now covers that side of the flank, with Kroos playing at his best position.

Oh I missed that you also updated your formation.

This is taking some dramatic turns in terms of in game coaching and tactics, unseen before in this tournament

I love it

 

[The Red Viper]

Eden Hazard doing what he does the best vs Arsenal and Koscienly here:-

Alexis' doing madness from the right wing at Arsenal. No reason why he can't do that vs Koscienly.

Koscienly simply would have a very hard time dealing with the quick twists & turn and the burst of pace by Alexis.

 

[The Red Viper]

James' at his best. Was voted the best midfielder in La Liga during the 2014-15 season, ahead of the likes of Modric, Iniesta, Kroos, Busquets, Rakitic etc.

 

[The Red Viper]

We have a much superior midfield. Kante - Kroos are much better than Nzonzi - Verratti.

I see the duo of Lewy & Reus troubling us a bit but we have enough good defensive presence in Hummels, Gimenez and Carvajal with Kante helping them out to restrict their influence. The same can't be said about Hazard, Alexis, James and Higuain. Hazard and Alexis are unstoppable one-on-one and with Higuain running the channels and dragging one of the CBs with him, that creates lot of space for Hazard, Alexis and James to do something like this.

And as good as Azpilicueta is, there's no way he is going to be able to keep up with Hazard on his own. Hazard needs to be double-teamed. And even then Hazard can do stuff like these:-

 

[Indnyc]

@The Red Viper

We have a much superior midfield. Kante - Kroos are much better than Nzonzi - Verratti.

I see the duo of Lewy & Reus troubling us a bit but we have enough good defensive presence in Hummels, Gimenez and Carvajal with Kante helping them out to restrict their influence. The same can't be said about Hazard, Alexis, James and Higuain. Hazard and Alexis are unstoppable one-on-one and with Higuain running the channels and dragging one of the CBs with him, that creates lot of space for Hazard, Alexis and James to do something like this.

And as good as Azpilicueta is, there's no way he is going to be able to keep up with Hazard on his own. Hazard needs to be double-teamed. And even then Hazard can do stuff like these:-

https://www.transfermarkt.com/rober...0/verein/0/status/0/pos/0/gegner/39728/plus/1

9 games 6 goals for Lewandowski vs. Hummels. There is no way a Hummels/Giminez combination stops Lewandowski from scoring here

On the other hand, Higuain has struggled against Bonucci and that is a pretty good match up.

Nzonzi is again a pretty good match up to Hazard.. He kept him fairly quiet in the World Cup semi final.. Hazard is great when he is given space to run into and time on the ball.. I feel with the high press tactics, it is going to be difficult for anybody to have time

 

[2mufc0]

Come on lads you know the rules @Enigma_87 @The Red Viper decide on who's posting for the match and stick to it please.

 

[2mufc0]

Eden Hazard doing what he does the best vs Arsenal and Koscienly here:-

Alexis' doing madness from the right wing at Arsenal. No reason why he can't do that vs Koscienly.

Koscienly simply would have a very hard time dealing with the quick twists & turn and the burst of pace by Alexis.

I rate Kos peak pretty high and he's got the pace to keep up with pacey wingers, you can probably find clips of all the best modern defenders put on their arse due to how much the modern game is under a microscope.

 

[Enigma_87]

I think he is perfectly fine for the role..

PFA Team of the year in 2009-10; Manchester United Player's player of the year 2011-12 and 2016-17;



His credentials in a long career are pretty good and certainly better than what for example Ghoulam has achieved so far. If Ghoulam is fine for later rounds of this draft i don't see how Valencia is not?

He's distinctly average and always has been IMO. He got converted to a RB as he couldn't keep the top level as a winger at United. We have to disagree there I think. I never rated Valencia all that high as a winger or for his attacking contribution. He's consistent but as it stands he's your only provider of width and contributor in attack on the right side(since you moved Reus to the left).

If him and Ghoulam cancel each other out that's pretty much fine by me

@The Red Viper


https://www.transfermarkt.com/rober...0/verein/0/status/0/pos/0/gegner/39728/plus/1

9 games 6 goals for Lewandowski vs. Hummels. There is no way a Hummels/Giminez combination stops Lewandowski from scoring here

On the other hand, Higuain has struggled against Bonucci and that is a pretty good match up.

Nzonzi is again a pretty good match up to Hazard.. He kept him fairly quiet in the World Cup semi final.. Hazard is great when he is given space to run into and time on the ball.. I feel with the high press tactics, it is going to be difficult for anybody to have time

Hummels played for a much inferior side to Bayern tho. And also it is Gimenez who will take care of Lewa, not Hummels. As a pure stopper/sweeper combo Hummels will cover for Gimenez, but won't be tasked to deal with Lewa directly.

Also Higuain is not facing only Bonucci as in that Juve games. He again played for an inferior side against a 5-3-2 that Juve employed and it wasn't Bonucci marking him.

He scored against Arsenal in the sole game they played. Hazard has 5 goals and 2 assists against Arsenal and has put Kos on his Arse numerous times.

To me your main goalscoring opportunities come from Lewa and Reus and IMO they are well covered here.

Coutinho is more of a provider and has only one double digit season in the league so far. Verratti and Nzonzi goalscoring return tally is really pitiful, whilst we have much bigger goalscoring threat on the pitch in Hazard, Sanchez, Higuain, James who have a lot more goals in them.

Also on Gimenez - he has proven himself at the highest level despite being young - both at Uruguay and at the WC and in CL. He is well equipped in handling Lewandowski.

Oh I missed that you also updated your formation.

This is taking some dramatic turns in terms of in game coaching and tactics, unseen before in this tournament

Think this plays to our hands tho - you have Reus and Coutinho both inclined to go to the left wing and on the right there's only Valencia who isn't someone that would trouble us that much on his own.

 

[Enigma_87]

Come on lads you know the rules @Enigma_87 @The Red Viper decide on who's posting for the match and stick to it please.

I'll leave it to TRV as he mainly led the discussion. I've probably has joined 3 times so far but didn't stick it to one post but kept it separate.

 

[Gio]

I think he is perfectly fine for the role..

PFA Team of the year in 2009-10; Manchester United Player's player of the year 2011-12 and 2016-17;



His credentials in a long career are pretty good and certainly better than what for example Ghoulam has achieved so far. If Ghoulam is fine for later rounds of this draft i don't see how Valencia is not?

Yeah I don’t think there’s much of an issue with his peak level and I’d include Wigan in that around 2008-2012 or so. He was always a fairly blunt instrument but effective nonetheless both in his direct play and often more importantly in stretching the play for the rest of the attack. His pace can force teams to defend a little more cautiously and give up some midfield control. Given plenty of managers have picked players with far shorter peaks, he looks fine.

In terms of this game I don’t really rate Ghoulam from what I’ve seen though so perhaps there is an advantage to be gained. Lewandowski would clearly enjoy that kind of service.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Well most of the flair players are like that. Not that it has to do with Alexis's nominal side on the pitch tho.

Look at it this way - if Kos makes an error is much more likely to lead to a goal rather than Alexis way up the field losing possession.

I'd rate Alexis above, there we can disagree. Kos was never an undisputed starter for his NT nor has proven his level in Europe or for France to compare with Alexis winning back to back Copa's and being integral part of the team, also playing in 3 different leagues and in variety of positions.

Here also you have Kos playing in a back three - an unfamiliar role for him and not every good CB who can cover his full back can play as a LCB or a RCB - it's another tactical matter and requires different attributes to his game.

If you was running a high energy, counter pressing tactic like Chile, I'd rate Alexis. but in this modern 4231 I can see a lot of attacks dying with Alexis dribbling down blind alleys or making off passes. He never liked like playing on the right in this tactic for Arsenal for example.

 

[Indnyc]

He's distinctly average and always has been IMO. He got converted to a RB as he couldn't keep the top level as a winger at United. We have to disagree there I think. I never rated Valencia all that high as a winger or for his attacking contribution. He's consistent but as it stands he's your only provider of width and contributor in attack on the right side(since you moved Reus to the left).

If him and Ghoulam cancel each other out that's pretty much fine by me



Hummels played for a much inferior side to Bayern tho. And also it is Gimenez who will take care of Lewa, not Hummels. As a pure stopper/sweeper combo Hummels will cover for Gimenez, but won't be tasked to deal with Lewa directly.

Also Higuain is not facing only Bonucci as in that Juve games. He again played for an inferior side against a 5-3-2 that Juve employed and it wasn't Bonucci marking him.

He scored against Arsenal in the sole game they played. Hazard has 5 goals and 2 assists against Arsenal and has put Kos on his Arse numerous times.

To me your main goalscoring opportunities come from Lewa and Reus and IMO they are well covered here.

Coutinho is more of a provider and has only one double digit season in the league so far. Verratti and Nzonzi goalscoring return tally is really pitiful, whilst we have much bigger goalscoring threat on the pitch in Hazard, Sanchez, Higuain, James who have a lot more goals in them.

Also on Gimenez - he has proven himself at the highest level despite being young - both at Uruguay and at the WC and in CL. He is well equipped in handling Lewandowski.



Think this plays to our hands tho - you have Reus and Coutinho both inclined to go to the left wing and on the right there's only Valencia who isn't someone that would trouble us that much on his own.

I mean it’s hypocritical to say Hummels played for an inferior side and then say Hazard would run rings around Kos without considering that he played for a significantly weaker side as well.

Even before the switch the idea is to allow Reus and Coutinho to interchange and cause problems. Don’t think that is a concern at all

Hazard is your main threat and I feel there is enough in my defense to stop him from being optimal

 

[Indnyc]

Another interesting battle is Reus against Carvajal.. I do rate Carvajal and think he was very important for Madrid but Reus has a very good record against him in the champions league

4 goals in 5 games

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mar.../verein/0/status/0/pos/0/gegner/138927/plus/1



His performance against Real Madrid featuring Carvajal

 

[Himannv]

Ghoulam is the weakest player on the pitch at this stage of the draft but the opposition is really not set up to take advantage of that. I think Hazard and Sanchez together at their peaks will be too much to handle despite the superior defensive setup that @Indnyc has.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Yeah I don’t think there’s much of an issue with his peak level and I’d include Wigan in that around 2008-2012 or so. He was always a fairly blunt instrument but effective nonetheless both in his direct play and often more importantly in stretching the play for the rest of the attack. His pace can force teams to defend a little more cautiously and give up some midfield control. Given plenty of managers have picked players with far shorter peaks, he looks fine.

In terms of this game I don’t really rate Ghoulam from what I’ve seen though so perhaps there is an advantage to be gained. Lewandowski would clearly enjoy that kind of service.

Aye, Valencia has ended up being one of the most frustrating players I've seen at Utd, but he was more effective at his peak than he's often given credit for. He tied Ashley Cole in knots on a few different occasions, and for all that his delivery was never exactly laser-like, he did have a real knack for getting to the byline and putting the ball into dangerous areas.

 

[Indnyc]

Ghoulam is the weakest player on the pitch at this stage of the draft but the opposition is really not set up to take advantage of that. I think Hazard and Sanchez together at their peaks will be too much to handle despite the superior defensive setup that @Indnyc has.

I understand the reasoning but Hazard in his current role goes up against Azpi with help from Valencia.. If that doesn’t stop him then I genuinely don’t know what will

Sanchez isn’t in his best position from the right.. If he shifts to the left, he has a very poor record against Azpi again..

In terms of taking advantage of Ghoulam, peak Valencia is not as flashy as the other players here but he was excellent in finding team mates and expect him to find Lewa (Who has a magnificent record against Hummels), Coutinho and Reus ( Who has a great record against Carvajal)

 

[The Red Viper]

@The Red Viper


https://www.transfermarkt.com/rober...0/verein/0/status/0/pos/0/gegner/39728/plus/1

9 games 6 goals for Lewandowski vs. Hummels. There is no way a Hummels/Giminez combination stops Lewandowski from scoring here

Gimenez is mainly tasked with handling Lewy as he's our stopper in the formation. When Lewy faced Hummels' Dortmund, Mats didn't really have as good a partner in central defence as Gimenez. Subotic had already declined by them and was mared with injuries. Sokratis was there but he wasn't the ideal CB partner for Hummels as Gimenez is, as Gimenez has the physicality and aerial ability at restrict Lewy's influence. Not saying we stop him completely, but we restrict him.

 

[The Red Viper]

I rate Kos peak pretty high and he's got the pace to keep up with pacey wingers, you can probably find clips of all the best modern defenders put on their arse due to how much the modern game is under a microscope.

Fair enough but Koscienly would often be left isolated one on one against Alexis. I know Alexis' stock is quite low right now but at his peak, man was a proper alphadog. He would press and make a nuisance. And its not just pace. Its also that burst of pace/on the turn where he was absolutely devastating.

Kos was a good defender but he also has had history of lapses in concentration, especially in key moments.

 

[The Red Viper]

@The Red Viper

Nzonzi is again a pretty good match up to Hazard.. He kept him fairly quiet in the World Cup semi final.. Hazard is great when he is given space to run into and time on the ball.. I feel with the high press tactics, it is going to be difficult for anybody to have time

Bro, Nzonzi came on as a sub. Didn't even play 10 mins.

And Hazard was still very good in that semi final. Especially the first 20 odd mins where Belgium were tearing France apart. After that once French midfield got some control, they were able to slow Hazard down, thanks to help from Kante.

 

[Indnyc]

Fair enough but Koscienly would often be left isolated one on one against Alexis. I know Alexis' stock is quite low right now but at his peak, man was a proper alphadog. He would press and make a nuisance. And its not just pace. Its also that burst of pace/on the turn where he was absolutely devastating.

Kos was a good defender but he also has had history of lapses in concentration, especially in key moments.

Alba?

 

[Indnyc]

Bro, Nzonzi came on as a sub. Didn't even play 10 mins.

And Hazard was still very good in that semi final. Especially the first 20 odd mins where Belgium were tearing France apart. After that once French midfield got some control, they were able to slow Hazard down, thanks to help from Kante.

He has a shite record against Nzonzi even when he played for Stoke City?

 

[The Red Viper]

Another interesting battle is Reus against Carvajal.. I do rate Carvajal and think he was very important for Madrid but Reus has a very good record against him in the champions league

4 goals in 5 games

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mar.../verein/0/status/0/pos/0/gegner/138927/plus/1



His performance against Real Madrid featuring Carvajal

Reus is brilliant but tbh if you see that video, a lot of his exploits were from centrally or on the other flank, against Marcelo's side. Not much of his damage came from the flank Carvajal was manning.

 

[The Red Viper]

Alba?

Alba seems to be playing in a much more advanced role as a LWB no?

Its one thing to cover for a full-back in 4-4-2 but another thing to cover for the wing-back in 3-4-3. The wide CBs need to be good in one on one situations as they would be required to cover for the full-backs a lot lot more than they usually do. They should be comfortable getting dragged out wide and dealing with it. Azpi for instance can do that. The likes of Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Puyol, Chiellini etc are adept for that. Not sure Kos is imo.

 

[The Red Viper]

He has a shite record against Nzonzi even when he played for Stoke City?

2 goals + 2 assists from 6 games is hardly shit.

 

[Indnyc]

Reus is brilliant but tbh if you see that video, a lot of his exploits were from centrally or on the other flank, against Marcelo's side. Not much of his damage came from the flank Carvajal was manning.

Look at 1.02. He leaves Carvajal and puts it on a plate for Mhki (who fecks it up)

A lot of the damage came from the right side where you had Carvajal and Pepe

 

[The Red Viper]

Look at 1.02. He leaves Carvajal and puts it on a plate for Mhki (who fecks it up)

A lot of the damage came from the right side where you had Carvajal and Pepe

That was a result of Irrameyndee (ft Moyes) fecking up and not being able to let the ball go out for a goal-kick.

After that, thats more on Pepe's error in judgement dealing against an aerial ball more than anything.

 

[Indnyc]

2 goals + 2 assists from 6 games is hardly shit.

7 matches
https://www.transfermarkt.com/eden-...0/verein/0/status/0/pos/0/gegner/73734/plus/1

It's hardly blowing away as well. Certainly worse than Lewa against Hummels or Reus against Carvajal

 

[Indnyc]

Alba seems to be playing in a much more advanced role as a LWB no?

Its one thing to cover for a full-back in 4-4-2 but another thing to cover for the wing-back in 3-4-3. The wide CBs need to be good in one on one situations as they would be required to cover for the full-backs a lot lot more than they usually do. They should be comfortable getting dragged out wide and dealing with it. Azpi for instance can do that. The likes of Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Puyol, Chiellini etc are adept for that. Not sure Kos is imo.

Kos played alongside Gibbs and that itself should tell you how often he had to cover on the left hand side.

I’m no expert but would trust Arsenal supporters to back me on this

Often we say that a wing back can’t attack and defend. So if you think Alba isn’t going to defend then surely he is attacking and that’s a double team on Carvajal who already is in trouble against Reus?

 

[Indnyc]

@Enigma_87 @The Red Viper good game. All the best going forward

 

[Enigma_87]

@Enigma_87 @The Red Viper good game. All the best going forward

Thanks, mate. You built a fantastic side and as I said to TRV thought you would be our toughest opponent, not only for Lewa's record against Hummels, but the way you have constructed such a coherent and functional side.

The only criticism I had towards your team was Valencia and apart from him I really loved your side so couldn't really criticize anything else.

 

[The Red Viper]

@Enigma_87 @The Red Viper good game. All the best going forward

Thanks bro.

 

[Isotope]

Have to say that addition of Hazard () really transformed Enigma/TRV's. (other than Messi and Ronaldo) Only Neymar on his heyday could be compared to him on the excitement one can bring to the team. Yeh, and also Bale.

 

[Jim Beam]

Have to say that addition of Hazard () really transformed Enigma/TRV's. (other than Messi and Ronaldo) Only Neymar on his heyday could be compared to him on the excitement one can bring to the team. Yeh, and also Bale.

For me, the most exciting player to watch atm. Messi is on another level, but Hazard style and flair is something else. Arguably now that Messi took more of a playmaker role, he is also the best ball-carrier you could find.
The thing about him is that if you put him in the counter-attacking team and under Mourinho he is unstoppable when in form. Put him in the possession-based team under Sarri, even more so. That versatility that he has is an underrated value and something that puts him apart from the likes of Salah and similar types of players imo.



Absolute menace.

 

[Gio]

Have to say that addition of Hazard () really transformed Enigma/TRV's. (other than Messi and Ronaldo) Only Neymar on his heyday could be compared to him on the excitement one can bring to the team. Yeh, and also Bale.

Yeah Enigma and TRV upgraded really well, which swung the vote for me.

 

[Indnyc]

Thanks, mate. You built a fantastic side and as I said to TRV thought you would be our toughest opponent, not only for Lewa's record against Hummels, but the way you have constructed such a coherent and functional side.

The only criticism I had towards your team was Valencia and apart from him I really loved your side so couldn't really criticize anything else.

Thanks.. I was telling @The Red Viper you guys were the one team I didn’t want to face either

Hazard swung the match and maybe I should have picked him over Bonucci but it was a fun match and really enjoyed the back and forth arguments.

 

[Isotope]

For me, the most exciting player to watch atm. Messi is on another level, but Hazard style and flair is something else. Arguably now that Messi took more of a playmaker role, he is also the best ball-carrier you could find.
The thing about him is that if you put him in the counter-attacking team and under Mourinho he is unstoppable when in form. Put him in the possession-based team under Sarri, even more so. That versatility that he has is an underrated value and something that puts him apart from the likes of Salah and similar types of players imo.



Absolute menace.

Yeah Enigma and TRV upgraded really well, which swung the vote for me.

True that. Although the may need to upgrade their striker when get to the Final .

 

[Enigma_87]

Thanks.. I was telling @The Red Viper you guys were the one team I didn’t want to face either

Hazard swung the match and maybe I should have picked him over Bonucci but it was a fun match and really enjoyed the back and forth arguments.

Cheers. Bonucci was a good pick upgraded your defence and also didn't fill some of the top leagues spots. Enjoyed it as well, you have made your points clear and I think defended your team pretty well.

Think the right wing spot did it for us, if you went for Bale or something we could've issues with defending Ghoulam against him.

 

[Enigma_87]

Have to say that addition of Hazard () really transformed Enigma/TRV's. (other than Messi and Ronaldo) Only Neymar on his heyday could be compared to him on the excitement one can bring to the team. Yeh, and also Bale.

For me, the most exciting player to watch atm. Messi is on another level, but Hazard style and flair is something else. Arguably now that Messi took more of a playmaker role, he is also the best ball-carrier you could find.
The thing about him is that if you put him in the counter-attacking team and under Mourinho he is unstoppable when in form. Put him in the possession-based team under Sarri, even more so. That versatility that he has is an underrated value and something that puts him apart from the likes of Salah and similar types of players imo.



Absolute menace.

Yeah Enigma and TRV upgraded really well, which swung the vote for me.

Thanks, lads.

Yes Hazard was the game changer. He gave us the individual quality and star presence that we only had in Sanchez the round before. With him and Kroos we multiplied our creativity from midfield and attack which pulled us through against a very solid team Indnyc build.