Hi Mr. Mujac, why is it a deliberate strategy? What are the benefits?
Miscellaneous Reserve/Youth News
- Thread starter Cevno
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The coaches are in the opinion that certain players learn more and develop more effectively playing up an age group. Mather is one example where he has basically skipped U/18 football and is now with the U/23's. Quite a few players do this. Greenwood played up a level, Shoretire sometimes 2/3 levels.
I was watching us lose to Chelsea quite heavily a few years back when we had the likes of Burke, Veevers, Kavanagh, Hampson, Murray and others. Technically we were just as good but physically we couldn't compete...we were tiny in comparison. But those players develop a range of different skills and mindsets by doing that. As long as you don't lose every week (which we don't)...then hopefully it supports the pathway through to the first team.
Taking on smaller more technical players has always been part of our approach, but playing quite a few players up a group seems to be a more recent strategy.
Thank you, makes perfect sense.
Thank you for that interesting record. It has been a stated policy for as long as I remember ( back to the 60s) to get technically good kids who might be smaller and less physically developed. It hasn't stopped United having a very record in youth competitions in the past. Indeed Fergie used to insist that every team at United should win their respective league/cup at whatever age group as it created a winning mindset which was required at first team level. Now it seems that has been lessened in pursuit of individual development. In the past exceptional individuals were still promoted quickly but a balance was struck.
The last two years seem to show a widening gap between United and their direct competitors, City and Chelsea are now joined by Liverpool. It reflects the position of the first teams unfortunately. Irrespective of 'policy' its important to beat your direct competitors, otherwise you can get used to losing against them.
Chelsea record at youth level over the last ten years speaks volumes and is evident to see. City are up there too but I wouldn't necessarily put Liverpool in that bracket.
We are probably on par with Liverpool at the moment and clearly that's not good enough.
However, even in recent times, the number of games that United give to youth players is almost double that of Chelsea, and four times that of City.
So while we might not win against those four clubs as often as we might like...it's not impacting chances in the first team.
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Fourth best first team ( probably) and fourth best youth teams ( on average). I agree United still promote the best but its going to get harder and harder for that standard to be 'the best' if the current position is maintained. As a club we should strive to be the best, not easy I know, nobody has a right to the crown, but throughout age groups we have slipped down and it shows no sign of being reversed.
I know what you're saying.
But what's the point of having the best youth team in the country...winning leagues and cups if your'e not going to let those players get into the first team? I mean...what's the point of having a successful youth policy if it's not to get them into the first eleven?
Ideally you get both...but that's not happening with any team. Chelsea and City might win titles but players don't always come through. Same with Liverpool. We have only won one U/18 title in recent seasons and been very poor in the Youth Cup but better at giving players a pathway.
In the last four seasons, our record across all age groups v Liverpool is W10 D1 L5 so they are not ahead of us in terms of head to head results. Neither are Chelsea with a record of W3 D1 L2. So its only City who are consistently beating us head to head...and that record is W2 D6 L6. So in terms of your original post I think recent results give the impression we are behind in some way yet the facts prove otherwise.
Chelsea have won five FA Youth Cups, EUFA Youth Leagues, Reserve team titles (which is fantastic and I wish United would win all these things)...yet they have only featured 13 youth players in the first team in the last three full seasons with only Abraham, Mount, Christensen and James playing 50+ games.
City have featured only 11 players in that period...with only Foden reaching 50+ games.
Liverpool have featured 25 players in the first team (which is a lot better) but only Alexander-Arnold has reached 50+ games
Whilst United have featured 24 players in those three years with Pogba, Rashford, Greenwood, Lingard, Williams, Pereira and McTominay all playing 50+ games and four of those playing over 100 games.
Like I said...it's better to be able to do both. But there's no evidence that suggests that not winning titles and failing to consistently beat your rivals has any impact on the development of young players or how successful your youth policy is.
Finally, given all of this, I don't think it has any negative impact on the players mentality at all.
I think its an excellent record by United. My concern is that losing often against your major rivals does have the effect that you don't see in your last comment. Also winning leagues and cups is great for a positive mindset whatever the age. I guess I just think that is more important than you do, we shall agree to disagree about this particular aspect. Otherwise I am looking forward to the continued development of some fine young footballers, especially Shoretire who I think is 'special'.
A bit on Alvaro Fernandez
And info on Scotland U/17's where Sharpe and Kingdon played.
And info on Scotland U/17's where Sharpe and Kingdon played.
Finally, United's U/18's played a friendly today at Carrington but I don't have any details except Berry scored one and had an assist in another.
5-0 win for the 18s against Park View Academy with Berry Ennis Scanlon Norkett Fitzgerald on the scoresheet
Won 5-0. Ennis, Scanlon, Norkett and Fitzgerald the other scorers.
United taking a very close at 18 year old CB, 'Marvelous Antolin Garzon' also known as 'Marvel' according to reports in Madrid. He plays for Real Madrid and is of Moroccan descent. He's left footed, good on the ball and is a power house from the little I've seen of him. Zidane had him training with the first team last year and it was said that Zidane rated him very highly.
Marvelous - Willy, partnership, 2025
Marvelous - Willy, partnership, 2025
United taking a very close at 18 year old CB, 'Marvelous Antolin Garzon' also known as 'Marvel' according to reports in Madrid. He plays for Real Madrid and is of Moroccan descent. He's left footed, good on the ball and is a power house from the little I've seen of him. Zidane had him training with the first team last year and it was said that Zidane rated him very highly.
Marvelous - Willy, partnership, 2025
He looks a lot like a left footed young Varane type. He can step forward and play a pass. Fast aggressive and strong.
His signing would be a bit of a coup if we can pull it off. We'd then have Marvel and Hardly as two left footed options to go with Willy Kambwala and the rest of the right footed options. Which is a good balance and provides options so it's important we get this managerial appointment right, which would benefit the youngsters coming through, aswell as the first team IMO.
Sounds great if we can get him. As mentioned, him and Willy, great potential. He isn't going as well as last season but I'm a quiet and hopeful fan of Bjorn Hardley as well. Left foot and he is quick. I'm hoping we can persist with him. I did read recently he was very highly rated in Holland. He has struggled a bit in 23's but is still 18 (soon 19) so hoping he can keep improving.
I have read big wraps on a few 15 and 16's defenders too so this would be excellent to have a handful of 1st team potential in a few years.
Guys, heads up, on my MUTV app it says an 18's game at 9.45pm (tonight being Saturday night) here in Australia. Love this time as it ain't midnight. check your local times for the match vs Derby. Hope to see a few top ones again. I think it's 11.45am in UK??
check your local times for the match vs Derby. Hope to see a few top ones again. I think it's 11.45am in UK??Here in Australia? Do we only have 1 time zone now?Guys, heads up, on my MUTV app it says an 18's game at 9.45pm (tonight being Saturday night) here in Australia. Love this time as it ain't midnight.
Whoops, I'd rather be on the west coast as they have much better United times for games. I think they are 3 hours earlier!! I'm too old to stay up anymore. 3am kick offs, I'd be shattered for a week.Here in Australia? Do we only have 1 time zone now?
Id imagine it’s quite a similar profile to Upamecano who we were very close to signing. He looks great at that level for sure.
I agree, he did give me the Upamecano vibes when I first watched him.
U23 has 5 red cards and 18 yellow cards in just 12 games. That's pretty remarkable in a league where you can pretty much do what you want and still not be carded.
I've said it for a while now but I don't just think the referees are simply bad at that level, I think there's active bias at play too. Mejbri gets carded for arguing with the ref after riding 4 leg breaking challenges in a row, something doesn't add up to me.
I wouldn't say that they're biased, I think they're just very cocky and think the worst you can do is to argue with the ref. They see it as a worse thing to do than breaking someone's leg.
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You're probably right, but it's hard looking at some games and not just thinking the ref has it out for us. That Blackburn 6-4 game springs to mind from a season or two ago.
Yeah, we must stop talking about refs at youth level now - I will just get in a bad mood hehe.
Really fecking winding me up now with the first team being so toilet, not being able to watch the u23s.
18's are so enjoyable to watch. Great attacking football every time. Love the keeper, Vitek, 6ft 4 and seems to have all the skills, very good with passing as well. The full debut of right fullback from 16's Ogunneye looks class and will go a lot further. Mather and Garnacho killing it and look lethal in attack. Great to watch. Ennis shows potential but seems to lack an end product. Sadly 1-0 down after we attacked the whole first half.
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U18s finished 2-2, coming back from 2-0 down. Garnacho sent off for two yellow cards, the second for a frustrated kick out. Derby were niggly, frustrating opponents though
Was this on the Tv? Don't think i saw it on the schedule.
yeah it was on MUTV
He's given away about 3-4 goals only this season because of his passing, and one today too. He's been awful this season, conceding nearly four goals per game. Not saying he's shit, I thought he was good last season, but he has been disappointing so far and especially his passing.
I must have put the mocker on him. I didn't see the 2nd half.
I did feel his passing was very good in the 45 minutes I watched today. There were two tight opportunities for Derby in the mid first half when he received a pass under pressure and he calmly played out and it did look impressive. He's a big kid (198cm, already over 6.4 feet tall) and will grow into his frame. I think he will go further. last season he made some worldlies, getting down so well with his size.I agree, I think he's gonna turn into a good keeper. He has the size and reflexes to become a commanding presence in goal. The mistakes with the ball at his feet whilst playing out from the back need improving, but that will come with time IMO. A keeper normally takes longer to master his craft IMO due to the role being fraught with danger. So him being very young for a keeper will take maybe a few years before he's ready for loan and then at least a few years on loan before we can assess if he's ready to be thrust into the first team. So about 4 or 5 years, if I was to take a guesstimate.I must have put the mocker on him. I didn't see the 2nd half.
G'day Adnan, I have seen a lot of academy keepers go through our system over the years and never felt many of them would go to our first team (except Hendo) To be honest, we have had some average ones. The Italian and German boys both did well though, forgotten one of them, Golliani?? ended up Serie A and Ron Robert in Germany Bundas???
He does have the speed and that was my initial concern being so big. He's is a huge presence and at such a young age and good coaching think he has the traits to be very good. Last year he saved some classic shots by the opposition and it was wow!! This kid has something. Seen him playing in 23's and sadly that defence is pretty average at times so he has his work cut out for him there. I'm hopeful he will keep going and will watch with interest. I personally never saw anything exceptional in Kovar. I just feel Vitek has more in his cupboard.
Guys, I can't make a post as I'm still on newbie terms. I'd love to see everyone's opinions on who do you think will make it in the firsts squad from our current academy and 23's. It would be good to look it up in a year or two and see our predictions. I do know that it may be harsh with yes/no so if that doesn't sit right to knock our kids then let it go. We could even go possible Galbraith maybe possible PL, more like Championship etc. Noah Emeran Ligue 1 type of thing. We all seem to enjoy watching the kids come through.
I must have put the mocker on him. I didn't see the 2nd half.
I think he'll come good too. He's the keeper along with Kovar I feel has the most potential. I've seen some world-class saves from Vitek in his United career but this season he has been a bit underwhelming so far but that is normal for a keeper. Kovar for example had a bad season too.
Hi Mick, it would help if either of them came through and took Heaton's spot etc. Imgine getting an academy kid like Donnarunna. Save 50 million.
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Absolutely!
Man Utd is reaching a new level here. Not only did they not show the U23 game. They have no match report, no highlights whatsoever. Amateur hour.