Miscellaneous Reserve/Youth News

I don't think I can post links but there are reports of a link-up between United and Sheffield Wednesday, and two of your youngsters (unnamed) are training with Wednesday this week as part of your 'Pro Experience Programme'.

Could have benefits for both clubs, your academy players get a taste of training with league professionals and we get a chance of taking them on loan once they've developed further.

Though of course it could just be teaching them a lesson as to this is the kind of place where you'll end up if you don't train hard and do as your coaches tell you!
 
People who saw him play, how highly do you rate Adam Berry?
I just saw highlights of him, the kid has mad skills.
 
lenny_1248 said:
Tbf, that guy from the second tweet also said that Kaide Gordon will join United)
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That's right he did, and he claimed his information was coming from Kaide Gordon's family. But it seems Klopp changed their mind by guaranteeing the player firsr team minutes at 16 years old and showing him a genuine path to first team football.
 
Adnan said:
That's right he did, and he claimed his information was coming from Kaide Gordon's family. But it seems Klopp changed their mind by guaranteeing the player firsr team minutes at 16 years old and showing him a genuine path to first team football.
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Seems a smart choice by him. Famously the starting wide players at Liverpool are in their prime years and little depth in the squad, while at United we have so many young wingers and wide forwards that competition will be a lot tougher for a lot longer.
 
Drainy said:
Seems a smart choice by him. Famously the starting wide players at Liverpool are in their prime years and little depth in the squad, while at United we have so many young wingers and wide forwards that competition will be a lot tougher for a lot longer.
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We've also not really offered a clear pathway into the first team at all under Solskjaer's reign.
 
Duane Dibley said:
I don't think I can post links but there are reports of a link-up between United and Sheffield Wednesday, and two of your youngsters (unnamed) are training with Wednesday this week as part of your 'Pro Experience Programme'.

Could have benefits for both clubs, your academy players get a taste of training with league professionals and we get a chance of taking them on loan once they've developed further.

Though of course it could just be teaching them a lesson as to this is the kind of place where you'll end up if you don't train hard and do as your coaches tell you!
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I think a few clubs are leaning towards this new scheme.

And I think I read its Hoogewerf and McNeill on loan with your club too.
 
Drainy said:
Seems a smart choice by him. Famously the starting wide players at Liverpool are in their prime years and little depth in the squad, while at United we have so many young wingers and wide forwards that competition will be a lot tougher for a lot longer.
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I don't think it would've made made a difference because I feel Solskjaer is in 'self preservation' mode and his inexperience at this level is showing. Even Amad Diallo who I believe many other managers would've integrated into their squad, has been wasted since he arrived from Atalanta IMO.

I can't see much of a pathway for the youngsters at United under Solskjaer who seems to want to bring big money players in rather than develop some of the youngsters already at the club.
 
Adnan said:
I don't think it would've made made a difference because I feel Solskjaer is in 'self preservation' mode and his inexperience at this level is showing. Even Amad Diallo who I believe many other managers would've integrated into their squad, has been wasted since he arrived from Atalanta IMO.

I can't see much of a pathway for the youngsters at United under Solskjaer who seems to want to bring big money players in rather than develop some of the youngsters already at the club.
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You have to be good enough - and if our players can't totally dominate a reserve-game or matches in the Championship or League 1 - you can't expect them to get much game-time against some of the best teams in the world.

if we are being honest - which players do you think deserve a lot of game-time in the P.L when players like Lingard, Bailly, V.d.Beek can't get it ? In my opinion - only Elanga looks close. Garner if he can get back to his form from last season, but central midfield is a much more difficult position to play than a winger. Laird and Chong has also started really well. As for Hannibal, Shoretire, Mengi etc - they are not even close at the moment.
 
lysglimt said:
You have to be good enough - and if our players can't totally dominate a reserve-game or matches in the Championship or League 1 - you can't expect them to get much game-time against some of the best teams in the world.

if we are being honest - which players do you think deserve a lot of game-time in the P.L when players like Lingard, Bailly, V.d.Beek can't get it ? In my opinion - only Elanga looks close. Garner if he can get back to his form from last season, but central midfield is a much more difficult position to play than a winger. Laird and Chong has also started really well. As for Hannibal, Shoretire, Mengi etc - they are not even close at the moment.
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What do you base the Hannibal judgment on? I don't agree with that. I don't see Shoretire and Mengi as quite ready but players like Hannibal, Amad and Elanga should've played much more and I think all of them would've played plenty for other top teams let alone other teams. A top manager would also play Laird instead of AWB or Dalot.
 
lysglimt said:
You have to be good enough - and if our players can't totally dominate a reserve-game or matches in the Championship or League 1 - you can't expect them to get much game-time against some of the best teams in the world.

if we are being honest - which players do you think deserve a lot of game-time in the P.L when players like Lingard, Bailly, V.d.Beek can't get it ? In my opinion - only Elanga looks close. Garner if he can get back to his form from last season, but central midfield is a much more difficult position to play than a winger. Laird and Chong has also started really well. As for Hannibal, Shoretire, Mengi etc - they are not even close at the moment.
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Laird isn't close but Williams who was inferior in ability was ready? McTominay who didn't even stand out at youth level was given a opportunity and the same applies to Lingard who was average to above average in the youth teams was brought through. Lingard is still being indulged even after going into the final year of his contract. Andreas Pereira and Mata were given game time over the likes of Hannibal and Elanga in meaningless warm up games. Amad Diallo could easily have been integrated instead of us signing another player who was best suited to the left, where we were already strong. Which would've meant the money that went to Dortmund could've been spent on midfield.

If we're to be honest, then everything is pointing towards the manager not being good enough to juggle both expectations at the club and also at developing youth. And the simple reason for that is because he's never been a coach and leaves the coaching to our former u18 coach and others, who are all inexperienced at the level we aspire to compete at. So it seems like he's adopted a policy to look for solutions via the transfer market by spending big on players who in some cases don't even suit the way he spoke about playing the game.

I fully believe under a head coach like Luis Enrique or Erik Ten Hag we would've seen quite a few youngsters integrated into the first team. Because both of those coaches are actual coaches on the training ground but most importantly they coach a brand of football that filters out players who aren't of the requisite technical qualities in the build up phase. Both of these head coaches implement a strong zonal and positional game in the quest to impose superiority both in possession and off the ball via applying coordinated pressure. And that's why we see youngsters flourish under such coaches at the highest level and it's not a surprise to see 17 year old Gavi (who hasn't completed a full game at senior level) start in midfield against Italy's strong midfield and not look out of place.

Solskjaer didn't even start our youngsters in pre-season over the likes of Mata and Pereira so i'm not expecting him to change now. But under a different coach like the aforementioned two, I have no doubt our youngsters would've got starts in pre-season/Carabao Cup games, at the very least. I also understand there's a section of our fans who will blindly support the manager no matter what.
 
Adnan said:
I don't think it would've made made a difference because I feel Solskjaer is in 'self preservation' mode and his inexperience at this level is showing. Even Amad Diallo who I believe many other managers would've integrated into their squad, has been wasted since he arrived from Atalanta IMO.

I can't see much of a pathway for the youngsters at United under Solskjaer who seems to want to bring big money players in rather than develop some of the youngsters already at the club.
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Agree, Amad, Hannibal and Elanga also come to mind. It's such a shame as the mood would be even better giving these kids a run. Mata on the bench must be demoralising for Hannibal and Amad, especially.
 
Adnan, I'm a big fan of juniors like you, and you took all the words out of my mouth. Sadly, it is obvious that Ole won't develop these kids unless injuries force him to play them.
 
Demaw said:
Agree, Amad, Hannibal and Elanga also come to mind. It's such a shame as the mood would be even better giving these kids a run. Mata on the bench must be demoralising for Hannibal and Amad, especially.
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They both probably like, admire and respect Mata because unlike so-called 'supporters' they actually work with him and have a professional dynamic and are still learning a lot from him in training so the student isn't the master just yet.

I understand as fans its frustrating not to get to see our favourite prospects sooner, but for the players they will be keen but expectations will be set at the start of the season so unlikely to be too disappointed.
 
Drainy said:
They both probably like, admire and respect Mata because unlike so-called 'supporters' they actually work with him and have a professional dynamic and are still learning a lot from him in training so the student isn't the master just yet.

I understand as fans its frustrating not to get to see our favourite prospects sooner, but for the players they will be keen but expectations will be set at the start of the season so unlikely to be too disappointed.
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Agree totally, it seems Mata has a huge amount of respect and aura, I just think Hannibal would have benefitted playing early games in pre-season. It feels like he will miss another year and will dwell in 23's etc. I know he is better but look at Jude when given opportunities.
 
Demaw said:
Agree totally, it seems Mata has a huge amount of respect and aura, I just think Hannibal would have benefitted playing early games in pre-season. It feels like he will miss another year and will dwell in 23's etc. I know he is better but look at Jude when given opportunities.
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Different life playing for Birmingham and Dortmund to Manchester United. United are a contradiction between a family club that wants to invest in the academy and bring through our own talents, and add key world class players through transfers, allowing players to learn from senior colleagues and do things the right way while challenging for leagues by balancing the squad but understanding that young players make mistakes... and an international brand where everything is image and success and if any players play a poor sequence all of a sudden they are shit and abused on twitter.

That said, Bellingham is a much more mature lad than Hannibal, both physically and mentality wise as well.
Hannibal might get a chance if the FA cup draw is a lower league side, we've been screwed by the draws so far with Ole. Our squad players losing to West Ham in the League Cup was a kick in the teeth to the likes of Hannibal, Shoretire and Amad.
 
Adnan said:
Laird isn't close but Williams who was inferior in ability was ready? McTominay who didn't even stand out at youth level was given a opportunity and the same applies to Lingard who was average to above average in the youth teams was brought through. Lingard is still being indulged even after going into the final year of his contract. Andreas Pereira and Mata were given game time over the likes of Hannibal and Elanga in meaningless warm up games. Amad Diallo could easily have been integrated instead of us signing another player who was best suited to the left, where we were already strong. Which would've meant the money that went to Dortmund could've been spent on midfield.

If we're to be honest, then everything is pointing towards the manager not being good enough to juggle both expectations at the club and also at developing youth. And the simple reason for that is because he's never been a coach and leaves the coaching to our former u18 coach and others, who are all inexperienced at the level we aspire to compete at. So it seems like he's adopted a policy to look for solutions via the transfer market by spending big on players who in some cases don't even suit the way he spoke about playing the game.

I fully believe under a head coach like Luis Enrique or Erik Ten Hag we would've seen quite a few youngsters integrated into the first team. Because both of those coaches are actual coaches on the training ground but most importantly they coach a brand of football that filters out players who aren't of the requisite technical qualities in the build up phase. Both of these head coaches implement a strong zonal and positional game in the quest to impose superiority both in possession and off the ball via applying coordinated pressure. And that's why we see youngsters flourish under such coaches at the highest level and it's not a surprise to see 17 year old Gavi (who hasn't completed a full game at senior level) start in midfield against Italy's strong midfield and not look out of place.

Solskjaer didn't even start our youngsters in pre-season over the likes of Mata and Pereira so i'm not expecting him to change now. But under a different coach like the aforementioned two, I have no doubt our youngsters would've got starts in pre-season/Carabao Cup games, at the very least. I also understand there's a section of our fans who will blindly support the manager no matter what.
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Can't say I agree with everything here.

a) To criticize OGS for giving Lingard game-time after his contribution for West Ham last season and his effort against West Ham in the league and Villareal in the C.L just sounds strange.

b) McTominay didn't stand out at youth level correct - simply because he was too small, and when he wasn't small anymore - he struggled with injuries due to growing too fast. If you remember Michael Keane and Lingard at the U-18 - they hardly ever played there for the same reason. They basically skipped U18 football and jumped straight to reserves because they were good enough but not physically ready. And when they grew and became ready, they were too old for U18s. So when you are saying that Lingard was average to above-average in the youth teams - you are wrong. I even remember an interview with OGS when he was a reserve-coach praising Keane and Lingard - saying they were going to be great players when they grow.

c) Will Eric Ten Haag be a great manager - maybe, but he is over 50 years old and he is still at Ajax. And it's really hard to compare a coach at Ajax with most other coaches in the world. They have a huge amount of talent - but due to the poor quality of the league, the talent leaves the country early. This however makes it much easier to play youngsters. Ajax can afford to play 3-4-5 teenagers - simply because the quality is so low. And - because it's a lot less physical league. That makes it possible to play teenagers who aren't physically fully developed. Imagine playing Hannibal against Burnley away - he would most likely either a) be injured from being kicked or b) get sent off for not dealing with the physicality and retaliate. In Holland he could thrive for a club like Ajax or PSV

d) he has never been a coach ? Lots of top managers have never been coaches. Is it an advantage to have a background from coaching - of course, but has history shown that it's a requirement ? Absolutely not. And do you seriously think a manager at United have time to be coaching in addition to everything else ? As for Ajax and Barcelona having excellent academies - no doubt about that. But they had that long before ten Hag and Enrique and we are probably closer to them than anytime in the last 25 years. Add to that - 2 of our most technical players have both come from the academy in the last 5-6 years so it's not like we aren't doing a lot right (Greenwood and Rashford) - and these 2 are at least at the same level as the best Ajax-talents.

e) If we had played Wycombe or Lincoln or something like that - we could have started a few youngsters, but as you recall we got West Ham. Ok - we lost the game - but imagine the criticism if we had played 5-6 youngsters and lost. "We threw a potential title away" - as it was now, we had a good enough team to win the game, but we played a poor game and lost anyway. But it seems you are so focused on the youngster getting gametime that you are ignoring the fact that we actually have experienced players who need gametime.

f) as for Laird and Williams - Laird could possibly have been in our first-team squad if not for the injuries - but he has basically missed half a season 3 seasons in a row. Nor is he as physical as Williams. Laird is a lot more talented than Williams - but the latter has shown at Norwich that he can definately do a decent job in the P.L
 
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lysglimt said:
Can't say I agree with everything here.

a) To criticize OGS for giving Lingard game-time after his contribution for West Ham last season and his effort against West Ham in the league and Villareal in the C.L just sounds strange.

b) McTominay didn't stand out at youth level correct - simply because he was too small, and when he wasn't small anymore - he struggled with injuries due to growing too fast. If you remember Michael Keane and Lingard at the U-18 - they hardly ever played there for the same reason. They basically skipped U18 football and jumped straight to reserves because they were good enough but not physically ready. And when they grew and became ready, they were too old for U18s. So when you are saying that Lingard was average to above-average in the youth teams - you are wrong. I even remember an interview with OGS when he was a reserve-coach praising Keane and Lingard - saying they were going to be great players when they grow.

c) Will Eric Ten Haag be a great manager - maybe, but he is over 50 years old and he is still at Ajax. And it's really hard to compare a coach at Ajax with most other coaches in the world. They have a huge amount of talent - but due to the poor quality of the league, the talent leaves the country early. This however makes it much easier to play youngsters. Ajax can afford to play 3-4-5 teenagers - simply because the quality is so low. And - because it's a lot less physical league. That makes it possible to play teenagers who aren't physically fully developed. Imagine playing Hannibal against Burnley away - he would most likely either a) be injured from being kicked or b) get sent off for not dealing with the physicality and retaliate. In Holland he could thrive for a club like Ajax or PSV

d) he has never been a coach ? Lots of top managers have never been coaches. Is it an advantage to have a background from coaching - of course, but has history shown that it's a requirement ? Absolutely not. And do you seriously think a manager at United have time to be coaching in addition to everything else ? As for Ajax and Barcelona having excellent academies - no doubt about that. But they had that long before ten Hag and Enrique and we are probably closer to them than anytime in the last 25 years. Add to that - 2 of our most technical players have both come from the academy in the last 5-6 years so it's not like we aren't doing a lot right (Greenwood and Rashford) - and these 2 are at least at the same level as the best Ajax-talents.

e) If we had played Wycombe or Lincoln or something like that - we could have started a few youngsters, but as you recall we got West Ham. Ok - we lost the game - but imagine the criticism if we had played 5-6 youngsters and lost. "We threw a potential title away" - as it was now, we had a good enough team to win the game, but we played a poor game and lost anyway. But it seems you are so focused on the youngster getting gametime that you are ignoring the fact that we actually have experienced players who need gametime.

f) as for Laird and Williams - Laird could possibly have been in our first-team squad if not for the injuries - but he has basically missed half a season 3 seasons in a row. Nor is he as physical as Williams. Laird is a lot more talented than Williams - but the latter has shown at Norwich that he can definately do a decent job in the P.L
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I'm not criticizing Solskjaer for giving Lingard game time, but rather criticizing him for giving game time to a player who is reportedly unwilling to commit to the club. Take Ajax as a example, Onana didn't commit to signing a contract so they moved on and sidelined him in favour of someone they can move forward with.

McTominay is big enough now and he still isn't good enough to get in ahead of little Billy Gilmour in Scotland's midfield. The truth is that Gilmour is superior on the ball and it has very little to do with how big or strong the player is. But it does seem like Solskjaer likes the physical element hence Scotland's starting CB starts in Manchester United's midfield. And if you're gonna use what Fergie said to make your point about Lingard, then you also have to agree with everything else he said in his tenure as United manager, for example 'Phil Jones is the next Duncan Edwards' etc

Ten Hag being over 50 shouldn't be seen as a hinderance because like Hansi Flick who was even older when appointed Bayern head coach, Ten Hag had to earn his opportunities in football which were recognised by both Bayern and in Holland where he's worked his way up to coaching Ajax on merit. He didn't get any job because he was affiliated to any one club but rather he got work due to his body of work which was easily recognisable. And i'm not sure why you're bringing up Burnley away when Hannibal can't even get a start over Pereira in a meaningless game in pre-season. Pereira was on his way out and was being played ahead of young players, when he wasn't even part of the plans it seems. And what do you mean by players not being physically ready? Are the Ajax youngsters who have played huge games in the UCL physically stronger than Hannibal? Are Pedri and Gavi who have started games against the best teams in the world under Enrique, physically stronger than Hannibal? And i'm not saying we should throw the youngsters into a EPL game but rather give them starts in Pre-season and the Carabao Cup. And even that seems to be difficult for Solskjaer who has preferred Pereira and Mata over the youngsters whilst Jurgen Klopp had no problem starting Kaide Gordon against a EPL club in the Carabao Cup, and he's only 16.

Coaches actually being Coaches is what is normal in football nowadays. The days of the coach also being the manager is not normal anymore. We have a recruitment department which is there for a purpose now and it's led by John Murtough. We don't need the first team coach to run recruitment because if we did, then we didn't need to form a recruitment structure with a extra 100 people who are dedicated to recruitment and analytics. Both departments being independent from each other is what is normal in football.

And with all due respect, I never said our academy was lacking behind Barca or Ajax which you seem to be insinuating. My argument is that our academy is good but our youngsters are not even getting a chance in warm up games. And if Solskjaer had started one, maybe two youngsters against West Ham in the Carabao Cup and lost, i'm pretty sure it would've been blamed on the youngsters. But Solskjaer decided to start a past it Mata who has been past it for a while now and his performance reflected that and we lost the game.
 
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Adnan said:
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I'm not criticizing Solskjaer for giving Lingard game time, but rather criticizing him for giving game time to a player who is reportedly unwilling to commit to the club. Take Ajax as a example, Onana didn't commit to signing a contract so they moved on and sidelined him in favour someone they can move forward with.

McTominay is big enough now and he still isn't good enough to get in ahead of little Billy Gilmour in Scotland's midfield. The truth is that Gilmour is superior on the ball and it has very little to do with how big or strong the player is. But it does seem like Solskjaer likes the physical element hence Scotland's starting CB starts in Manchester United's midfield. And if you're gonna use what Fergie said to make your point about Lingard, then you also have to agree with everything else he said in his tenure as United manager, for example 'Phil Jones is the next Duncan Edwards' etc

Ten Hag being over 50 shouldn't be seen as a hinderance because like Hansi Flick who was even older when appointed Bayern head coach, Ten Hag had to earn his opportunities in football which were recognised by both Bayern and in Holland where he's worked up his way up to coaching Ajax on merit. He didn't get any job because he was affiliated to any one club but rather he got work due to his body of work which was easily recognisable. And i'm not sure why you're bringing up Burnley away when Hannibal can't even get a start over Pereira in a meaningless game in pre-season. Pereira was on his way out and was being played ahead of young players, when he wasn't even part of the plans it seems. And what do you mean by players not being physically ready? Are the Ajax youngsters who have played huge games in the UCL physically stronger than Hannibal? Are Pedri and Gavi who have started games against the best teams in the world under Enrique, physically stronger than Hannibal? And i'm not saying we should throw the youngsters into a EPL game but rather give them starts in Pre-season and the Carabao Cup. And even that seems to be difficult for Solskjaer who has preferred Pereira and Mata over the youngsters whilst Jurgen Klopp had no problem starting Kaide Gordon against a EPL club in the Carabao Cup, and he's only 16.

Coaches actually being Coaches is what is normal in football nowadays. The days of the coach also being the manager is not normal anymore. We have a recruitment department which is there for a purpose now and it's led by John Murtough. We don't need the first team coach to run recruitment because if we did, then we didn't need to form a recruitment structure with a extra 100 people who are dedicated to recruitment and analytics. Both departments being independent from each other is what is normal in football.

And with all due respect, I never said our academy was lacking behind Barca or Ajax which you seem to be insinuating. My argument is that our academy is good but our youngsters are not even getting a chance in warm up games. And if Solskjaer had started one, maybe two youngsters against West Ham in the Carabao Cup and lost, i'm pretty sure it would've been blamed on the youngsters. But Solskjaer decided to start a past it Mata who has been past it for a while now and his performance reflected that and we lost the game.
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I dont know about the rest of the post but Scott only plays in defence for Scotland because they are incredibly weak there and have an abundance of midfielders.
 
Adnan said:
.

I'm not criticizing Solskjaer for giving Lingard game time, but rather criticizing him for giving game time to a player who is reportedly unwilling to commit to the club. Take Ajax as a example, Onana didn't commit to signing a contract so they moved on and sidelined him in favour of someone they can move forward with.

McTominay is big enough now and he still isn't good enough to get in ahead of little Billy Gilmour in Scotland's midfield. The truth is that Gilmour is superior on the ball and it has very little to do with how big or strong the player is. But it does seem like Solskjaer likes the physical element hence Scotland's starting CB starts in Manchester United's midfield. And if you're gonna use what Fergie said to make your point about Lingard, then you also have to agree with everything else he said in his tenure as United manager, for example 'Phil Jones is the next Duncan Edwards' etc

Ten Hag being over 50 shouldn't be seen as a hinderance because like Hansi Flick who was even older when appointed Bayern head coach, Ten Hag had to earn his opportunities in football which were recognised by both Bayern and in Holland where he's worked his way up to coaching Ajax on merit. He didn't get any job because he was affiliated to any one club but rather he got work due to his body of work which was easily recognisable. And i'm not sure why you're bringing up Burnley away when Hannibal can't even get a start over Pereira in a meaningless game in pre-season. Pereira was on his way out and was being played ahead of young players, when he wasn't even part of the plans it seems. And what do you mean by players not being physically ready? Are the Ajax youngsters who have played huge games in the UCL physically stronger than Hannibal? Are Pedri and Gavi who have started games against the best teams in the world under Enrique, physically stronger than Hannibal? And i'm not saying we should throw the youngsters into a EPL game but rather give them starts in Pre-season and the Carabao Cup. And even that seems to be difficult for Solskjaer who has preferred Pereira and Mata over the youngsters whilst Jurgen Klopp had no problem starting Kaide Gordon against a EPL club in the Carabao Cup, and he's only 16.

Coaches actually being Coaches is what is normal in football nowadays. The days of the coach also being the manager is not normal anymore. We have a recruitment department which is there for a purpose now and it's led by John Murtough. We don't need the first team coach to run recruitment because if we did, then we didn't need to form a recruitment structure with a extra 100 people who are dedicated to recruitment and analytics. Both departments being independent from each other is what is normal in football.

And with all due respect, I never said our academy was lacking behind Barca or Ajax which you seem to be insinuating. My argument is that our academy is good but our youngsters are not even getting a chance in warm up games. And if Solskjaer had started one, maybe two youngsters against West Ham in the Carabao Cup and lost, i'm pretty sure it would've been blamed on the youngsters. But Solskjaer decided to start a past it Mata who has been past it for a while now and his performance reflected that and we lost the game.
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Fair enough - good post!
 
I'm sure laird will be back and challenging next season. A fantastic player.
 
Adnan said:
Laird isn't close but Williams who was inferior in ability was ready? McTominay who didn't even stand out at youth level was given a opportunity and the same applies to Lingard who was average to above average in the youth teams was brought through. Lingard is still being indulged even after going into the final year of his contract. Andreas Pereira and Mata were given game time over the likes of Hannibal and Elanga in meaningless warm up games. Amad Diallo could easily have been integrated instead of us signing another player who was best suited to the left, where we were already strong. Which would've meant the money that went to Dortmund could've been spent on midfield.

If we're to be honest, then everything is pointing towards the manager not being good enough to juggle both expectations at the club and also at developing youth. And the simple reason for that is because he's never been a coach and leaves the coaching to our former u18 coach and others, who are all inexperienced at the level we aspire to compete at. So it seems like he's adopted a policy to look for solutions via the transfer market by spending big on players who in some cases don't even suit the way he spoke about playing the game.

I fully believe under a head coach like Luis Enrique or Erik Ten Hag we would've seen quite a few youngsters integrated into the first team. Because both of those coaches are actual coaches on the training ground but most importantly they coach a brand of football that filters out players who aren't of the requisite technical qualities in the build up phase. Both of these head coaches implement a strong zonal and positional game in the quest to impose superiority both in possession and off the ball via applying coordinated pressure. And that's why we see youngsters flourish under such coaches at the highest level and it's not a surprise to see 17 year old Gavi (who hasn't completed a full game at senior level) start in midfield against Italy's strong midfield and not look out of place.

Solskjaer didn't even start our youngsters in pre-season over the likes of Mata and Pereira so i'm not expecting him to change now. But under a different coach like the aforementioned two, I have no doubt our youngsters would've got starts in pre-season/Carabao Cup games, at the very least. I also understand there's a section of our fans who will blindly support the manager no matter what.
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There are many things I disagree with in this post.

1. Laird (who I rate) is still untested at first team level. To say that Williams is inferior is an opinion not borne out by any evidence. We all know that moving up to the first team is a massive jump. We also know that some players have peaks, troughs and plateaus...lets see what happens with Williams but a couple of years ago most people were screaming out for him to be given a run. Laird hasn't proved anything as yet. Next season could be a big one for him.

2. Lingard was not an average player in our youth team. He was clearly one of the most important players but his size was a major factor. He succeeded when going out on loan and was a major factor in helping us win trophies when he established himself. His confidence has been shot in recent seasons but his form this year has been good. If you don't rate him that again is your opinion...but as for Ole 'indulging' him. That's not borne out at all.

3. I agree with Pereira and Mata but Hannibal has not pushed on...and Elanga is the closest to really being in contention. As someone else said...the pathway is there but players have to take their chances. If they don't then that is nothing to do with Solskjaer. He has given chances to Chong, Henderson, Greenwood, Williams and Tuanzebe...that's five players. Only one has really cemented a place. With Pogba, McTominay, Rashford and Lingard already in the reckoning, to suggest Solskjaer isn't giving youth players a chance doesn't seem to be factual either.

4. Solskjaer doesn't need to be a youth coach. Fergie wasn't one either. Last season our youth team finished one point behind city so they can't be doing that bad. Our record in the Youth Cup needs to looked at but once again that has nothing to do with the first team manager.

5. Finally, we continually have more youth players in our first team squad than any other English team and up there with the best of teams in the Top 5 leagues across Europe...the latest report from CIES confirms this. So I'm not sure what these 'other managers' are going to do. Just because they are great in Italy doesn't mean anything at all.

Last season there was an average of seven youth players in every single match with numbers regularly reaching nine and ten...that included the likes of Elanga, Mejbri, Shoretire, Mengi, Williams, Tuanzebe...he even made Axel captain on one occasion...Ole is doing ok with youth development. He is under enormous pressure to deliver results and the players need to take their chances when they get it.

That's the way it's always been.
 
Mr. MUJAC said:
There are many things I disagree with in this post.

1. Laird (who I rate) is still untested at first team level. To say that Williams is inferior is an opinion not borne out by any evidence. We all know that moving up to the first team is a massive jump. We also know that some players have peaks, troughs and plateaus...lets see what happens with Williams but a couple of years ago most people were screaming out for him to be given a run. Laird hasn't proved anything as yet. Next season could be a big one for him.

2. Lingard was not an average player in our youth team. He was clearly one of the most important players but his size was a major factor. He succeeded when going out on loan and was a major factor in helping us win trophies when he established himself. His confidence has been shot in recent seasons but his form this year has been good. If you don't rate him that again is your opinion...but as for Ole 'indulging' him. That's not borne out at all.

3. I agree with Pereira and Mata but Hannibal has not pushed on...and Elanga is the closest to really being in contention. As someone else said...the pathway is there but players have to take their chances. If they don't then that is nothing to do with Solskjaer. He has given chances to Chong, Henderson, Greenwood, Williams and Tuanzebe...that's five players. Only one has really cemented a place. With Pogba, McTominay, Rashford and Lingard already in the reckoning, to suggest Solskjaer isn't giving youth players a chance doesn't seem to be factual either.

4. Solskjaer doesn't need to be a youth coach. Fergie wasn't one either. Last season our youth team finished one point behind city so they can't be doing that bad. Our record in the Youth Cup needs to looked at but once again that has nothing to do with the first team manager.

5. Finally, we continually have more youth players in our first team squad than any other English team and up there with the best of teams in the Top 5 leagues across Europe...the latest report from CIES confirms this. So I'm not sure what these 'other managers' are going to do. Just because they are great in Italy doesn't mean anything at all.

Last season there was an average of seven youth players in every single match with numbers regularly reaching nine and ten...that included the likes of Elanga, Mejbri, Shoretire, Mengi, Williams, Tuanzebe...he even made Axel captain on one occasion...Ole is doing ok with youth development. He is under enormous pressure to deliver results and the players need to take their chances when they get it.

That's the way it's always been.
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First of all, of course it's my opinion that i'm expressing and I haven't said I was doing anything other than just that. And you've just given yours which is fair enough.

1. Laird was always a superior talent imo compared to Williams. Injuries and the first team manager deciding to sign a fullback for £50m, meant he was always gonna go out on loan.

2. Lingard was always average to above average coming through the ranks at youth level. If he was anything more than that, then we would've been talking Ravel, Pogba level which he quite clearly wasn't. And even now with the benefit of hindsight, I don't believe any big CL club will sign him on a free.

3. I'm not sure what you mean exactly by 'he hasn't pushed on' because his season has thus far been disrupted by suspension and injury. So if that's what you meant then I agree he hasn't pushed on due to suspension and injury.

4. I never said Solskjaer needs to be a youth coach but it might be in the clubs best interests if the manager at first team level makes a effort in trying to develop young talents that the club has spent a considerable amount of money bringing to the club. Amad Diallo was bought for a considerable sum of money, and in his last competitive outing away to Wolves he was our best player imo. So his reward for that performance was to be sent out on loan, and we can only presume that was because the manager had his sights fixed on Jadon Sancho who is yet another left sided player.
Makes no sense.

5. And with all due respect, United continually having more youth players in the squad doesn't have anything to do with what i've been saying. And those other 'head coaches' have not only brought through young players but also integrated those young players who have excelled against the best teams in the world. Which is a testament to those coaches and their ability to actually coach and prepare their youngsters for such challenges. And why has Enrique comfortably integrated both 18 year old Pedri and 17 year old Gavi in the Spain team? He's done that because he has a clear defined way of playing the game which means his teams look to exert zonal and positional control whilst playing a high defensive line. And that means young players who are technically excellent will always get a chance under him.

I agree with your last point and do believe his decisions are due to the pressure he's under. And it does seem like he favours physicality in his team. But I would've expected at the very least to see a few of the youngsters start in pre-season and the Carabao Cup. But even that was difficult for the manager who decided to give starts to Pereira and Mata instead. And it's no surprise we were knocked out of the Cup with a predictably poor performance from Mata.
 
Adnan said:
2. Lingard was always average to above average coming through the ranks at youth level. If he was anything more than that, then we would've been talking Ravel, Pogba level which he quite clearly wasn't. And even now with the benefit of hindsight, I don't believe any big CL club will sign him on a free.
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That is a very strange comment. What you are saying is that if he had been more than above average he would have been one of the biggest talents this club has seen in the last 20 years ?
Lingard was a big talent who was highly rated by OGS 10 years ago - but he was small so he never got to play much at U18 level. Same with Michael Keane.
 
Just signed a highly rated winger from Burnley for our U14's, looks like we're taking a proactive approach to Brexit.
 
lysglimt said:
That is a very strange comment. What you are saying is that if he had been more than above average he would have been one of the biggest talents this club has seen in the last 20 years ?
Lingard was a big talent who was highly rated by OGS 10 years ago - but he was small so he never got to play much at U18 level. Same with Michael Keane.
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No that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that he he was average to above average coming through the youth ranks at the club which is hardly a strange comment.

And it seems some of you guys have this fascination with physicality which I find extremely strange. Some of the greats of the game have been small attackers who were hardly physical. I think we should pay more attention to touch and technique rather than physicality because when you look at some of the greatest teams/players in the past 20 years, they were small and relied more on touch, technique and a way of playing the game which prepared them tactically to dominate the game at the highest level. And the simple reason was because they were better technically and tactically which set them apart. So the bench mark/barometer shouldn't be Burnley away but rather Bayern away, who are a team who have tactical and technical advantages which we should try and narrow down.
 
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Beaucoup said:
Just signed a highly rated winger from Burnley for our U14's, looks like we're taking a proactive approach to Brexit.
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Thanks Beaucoup, I also appreciate your snippets that you write. I get the feeling you have a boy in the academy or someone close, you don't have to say! Nice to hear about the 14's, 15's and 16's as many of us enjoy the 18's which we get to watch and listen out for the next batch coming through. :)
 
Demaw said:
Thanks Beaucoup, I also appreciate your snippets that you write. I get the feeling you have a boy in the academy or someone close, you don't have to say! Nice to hear about the 14's, 15's and 16's as many of us enjoy the 18's which we get to watch and listen out for the next batch coming through. :)
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He has posted before if I am not mistaken that he has/had a kid in the academy.
 
Forson dropping down to the 18's today, Hansen also featuring, should be good, hopefully getting to watch this one live.
 
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