Except talking sh't about United in the public multiple times, ooh and the one reason why we lost Pogba in the first place. sure Mino was a good guy, should be kindly remembered by United fans.
Mino Raiola has died
- Thread starter Zoo
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
Except talking sh't about United in the public multiple times, ooh and the one reason why we lost Pogba in the first place. sure Mino was a good guy, should be kindly remembered by United fans.
From ManUtd point of view we lost Pogba, the player we didnt trust to play for first team. From player point of view, he got great move where he was trusted from day 1 and went onto win 4 league titles, making him one of the best players in Europe.
We can't just hoard young players and moan about them leaving. If we have young players then we should have plan to integrate them, what Pogba did has become very common now. So many have left big clubs as they didn't think they will get enough mins for their development.
He must be doing something right when the most in-demand players are in queue to get his service.
Raiola talked shit about the club, Gary Neville and ex players talked shit about our players and club too.
I'm sure it'll mean a lot to them
Pogba clearly wasnt ready for PL at that time, and not in the way Ferguson wanted him to play. he might gain success at Serie A but his football was changed forever, he became more attacking minded player no longer player capable of dictating the game as we've seen in the academy, became more selfish and his ego inflated, and the bolded part, Gary is just another caftard-lite, we talk shit about our club, talk shit our players but deep down we all LOVE the club, we only WANT THE BEST for our club. Humor me, do you think Mino felt the same? Mino would like to see our club go bankrupt as long as he could get a big chunk of money from it, so dont put Gary on same sentence with him.
What would you like me to do? Send a fruit basket? That's more kind words then the man ever had for United, managers and fans put together.
RIP. A Manchester United legend, sticking it to the Glazer family and Ed Woodward. He came from the soil and he will return to the soil as a champion of the working man, the Robin Hood of the modern era.
The man was an amazing agent getting the best deals for his client time and time again. Whatever animosity you have toward his conduct as an agent, he was a bloody good one and ultimately his loyalties lie with the players and not the clubs involved.
Rest in peace chap
I don't get what your problem is. I offered condolences. What more do you want?
A parasite that made the sport loved and followed by 100s of millions worse.
100% agree, good riddance.
100% agree, good riddance.
With new information coming out from Dortmund we also have to thank him for not getting Haaland because of the buyout clause. Lots of things to be grateful about.
It’s just good business, nothing personal.
Mino Raiola was good at what he did, but he was a scumbag to the systems that fed him.
I laud him for how good he was at trying to get the best for his players and trying to get his own from an overinflated greedy world like football, but it was disgusting of him to constantly destabilize clubs by influencing the players he managed and trying to raise his power by dictating media narratives and playing kingmaker amongst clubs and players. There was no honour in the way he did things.
Loss his hard, and I'm sure his family is going through a tough time. My sympathies to them.
Football won't miss him for a second.
I laud him for how good he was at trying to get the best for his players and trying to get his own from an overinflated greedy world like football, but it was disgusting of him to constantly destabilize clubs by influencing the players he managed and trying to raise his power by dictating media narratives and playing kingmaker amongst clubs and players. There was no honour in the way he did things.
Loss his hard, and I'm sure his family is going through a tough time. My sympathies to them.
Football won't miss him for a second.
So, so many people at the time refusing to believe the existence of the clause even though it was reported by credible sources. Today we would have lost the player for half his value and be made to look like even bigger mugs then we already are. We did the right thing not signing him under those conditions.
Yes we should never buy anyone who wants a buyout clause. Shows intent of leaving before even joining.
Still who's idea was it to do this? I think i know who,someone who constantly gets his clients to run down their contracts.
If I speak.
Not sure this contradicts that postulate.
Fergie was representing a billion dollar company.
I'll explain the De Vrij case again, since it flew over your head. This time with quotes from the court ruling, which you can find here
Sports Entertainment Group Football (SEG) moet een profvoetballer 4,75 miljoen euro schadevergoeding betalen.
SEG needs to pay 4,75m in damages.
SEG heeft haar verplichtingen jegens [eiser] om de zorg van een goed opdrachtnemer in acht te nemen en het verbod op het dienen van twee heren geschonden. Ook heeft SEG in strijd met de wet alsook de van toepassing zijnde reglementen RI en RIW alsook de gedragscode van Pro Agent [eiser] niet geïnformeerd over haar eigen belang. Het eigen belang van SEG houdt in *** zij bij de totstandkoming van het contract met Internazionale en zonder [eiser] daarover in te lichten een exorbitante vergoeding van Internazionale heeft bedongen. Daarmee heeft SEG haar verplichting om voor [eiser] een zo optimaal mogelijk contract uit te onderhandelen niet nagekomen aangezien SEG een rechtstreeks aan het belang van [eiser] strijdig eigen belang heeft gediend.
According De Vrij's side, SEG was a shitty agent. They didn't inform De Vrij of their own interest in the deal, and their fat cut on the Inter deal means that they weren't representing De Vrij to the best of their ability.
SEG is een van de actoren in de sportsector, die zich tussen partijen, als market maker, in beweegt en contact onderhoudt met meerdere partijen. Dit betekent uitdrukkelijk niet *** zij met iedere partij waarmee ze contact onderhoudt een contractuele rechtsverhouding heeft. Zo is met [eiser] in de loop der jaren contact geweest maar *** betekent niet *** daardoor SEG de belangen van [eiser] vertegenwoordigde en er een contractuele relatie is ontstaan. [eiser] heeft immers ook nooit voor enige door SEG verleende dienst betaald.
According to SEG, they call themselves "market maker", meaning they mediate between different parties and they don't have a contract with every party they talk to (including De Vrij). Their history of contact with De Vrij does not mean they have contractual relationship. De Vrij has never paid for services.
Partijen werken al jaren met elkaar samen. SEG heeft [eiser] vaak geholpen bij het aangaan van arbeidscontracten met verschillende voetbalclubs. Tussen partijen is een geschil ontstaan over hoe deze rechtsverhouding tussen hen moet worden gekwalificeerd en wat daarvan de gevolgen zijn. [eiser] dacht *** SEG zijn spelersmakelaar was en hij vindt *** SEG niet eerlijk tegenover hem is geweest over de vergoeding die zij ontving voor haar diensten en *** hij hierdoor is benadeeld.
Both parties (SEG and De Vrij) have worked together for years. SEG has often helped De Vrij with contract negotations at different football clubs.
Between parties, the dispute is about how this relationship should be classified and what the consequences of this are.
De Vrij thought that SEG was his agent, and he is of the opinion SEG hasn't been open to him with regards to the fat fee they got from Inter, and that this fee wasn't in De Vrij's best interest.
If you are actually a laywer, of particular interest to you and the regulations you mentioned would be the following:
Beoordeeld moet dus worden of er een opdrachtverhouding heeft bestaan tussen [eiser] en SEG. Het standpunt van SEG *** stilzwijgend een bemiddelingsovereenkomst sluiten niet mocht op basis van de regelgeving van de FIFA, KNVB en FIGC is niet doorslaggevend. Deze bepalingen van regelgeving binnen een bepaalde sport staan niet gelijk aan wetgeving. Zij kunnen wel tuchtrechtelijke gevolgen hebben binnen de sportfederatie waartoe de intermediair behoort. Het is een omstandigheid die kan worden meegewogen, maar niet van doorslaggevende betekenis naar het hier toepasselijke Nederlands recht. Naar Nederlands recht hoefde de bemiddelingsovereenkomst niet schriftelijk te worden aangegaan (artikel 7:427 jo. 7:417 lid 2 jo. 7:408 lid 3 BW) nu [eiser] handelde in de uitoefening van zijn beroep.
4.10.
Zoals hiervoor gesteld en artikel 7:427 BW (laatste volzin) ook bevestigt, is het niet noodzakelijk voor het bestaan van een bemiddelingsovereenkomst *** de bemiddelaar door [eiser] wordt betaald. De betaling door een opdrachtgever ( [eiser] ) aan de bemiddelaar (SEG) kan daarvoor wel een aanwijzing zijn, maar de betaling door de opdrachtgever ( [eiser] ) is niet beslissend. Het kwam meer voor *** de club de vergoeding voor de tussenpersoon direct betaalde, zonder tussenkomst van [eiser] . Dit deed Feyenoord ook, terwijl in *** contract SEG ( [naam 2] ) als tussenpersoon van [eiser] was benoemd. De stelling van SEG *** [eiser] hieruit de conclusie had moeten trekken *** SEG niet voor hem optrad gaat dus niet op.
4.11.
[eiser] heeft ter onderbouwing van het feit *** SEG voor hem heeft bemiddeld diverse e-mails, social media uitingen en presentaties die SEG voor hem heeft gemaakt, overgelegd.
4.10.
Zoals hiervoor gesteld en artikel 7:427 BW (laatste volzin) ook bevestigt, is het niet noodzakelijk voor het bestaan van een bemiddelingsovereenkomst *** de bemiddelaar door [eiser] wordt betaald. De betaling door een opdrachtgever ( [eiser] ) aan de bemiddelaar (SEG) kan daarvoor wel een aanwijzing zijn, maar de betaling door de opdrachtgever ( [eiser] ) is niet beslissend. Het kwam meer voor *** de club de vergoeding voor de tussenpersoon direct betaalde, zonder tussenkomst van [eiser] . Dit deed Feyenoord ook, terwijl in *** contract SEG ( [naam 2] ) als tussenpersoon van [eiser] was benoemd. De stelling van SEG *** [eiser] hieruit de conclusie had moeten trekken *** SEG niet voor hem optrad gaat dus niet op.
4.11.
[eiser] heeft ter onderbouwing van het feit *** SEG voor hem heeft bemiddeld diverse e-mails, social media uitingen en presentaties die SEG voor hem heeft gemaakt, overgelegd.
Because SEG was mentioned as mediating on de Vrij's side on his Feyenoord contract years ago (and De Vrij's provided evidence of SEG acting as his agent through the years), it means that that there was agent-client relationship between De Vrij and SEG years later at Inter, despite there not being a written agreement or paying for services. According to Dutch law, SEG are de facto agents and them not adhering to FIFA (and other such bodies) regulations doesn't undo that.
It has widely been reported by credible journos and outlets (as previously mentioned: NOS and VI's Tom Knipping) that Raiola, similairly to SEG, operates as an agent without a contract between him and his clients. And no amount of pretending you're a hotshot laywer on the internet, can change that.
Last edited:
Thanks for your balanced reply - there is no argument against it.
He….. died at 54
Football is a better place without him.
His entire industry should be abolished as it keeps players down.
Anyone that disagrees, you’re just wrong. A Players Union that actually functioned as a Union instead of lipstick on a pig, would do a better job. Elected ex players that worked in service of ALL players. Unions work.
A functioning players Union would work on the principle that players, and not clubs, are football. From that point of principle you could; bake in standardised contract lengths, low ‘additional’ transfer costs (read: ‘Agent fees) bonus payments, influence season length and better limit number of games, profit share rights, have a unified media voice, and generally just stop the cnuts in charge exploiting them. That’s not a unanimous vote for ‘player power’. That’s a term used by an unregulated industry that exploits its staff at every turn and gets pissy when they ask for something they don’t want to give. The TOTALITY of football should be ran by Unionised players. Period.
High powered agents, can’t - and wouldn’t - do any of that. They suck the soul out of football under the guise of working for the talent. They do not. They Fcuk up the sport and Mino was King Kong.
Any football fan mounting the loss of Mino the agent, is hopelessly misguided.
RIP for the 54 year old human that leaves behind a family, friends, and many loved ones. It’s no age at all, especially for one of the wealthiest people on the planet. Tragedy.
His entire industry should be abolished as it keeps players down.
Anyone that disagrees, you’re just wrong. A Players Union that actually functioned as a Union instead of lipstick on a pig, would do a better job. Elected ex players that worked in service of ALL players. Unions work.
A functioning players Union would work on the principle that players, and not clubs, are football. From that point of principle you could; bake in standardised contract lengths, low ‘additional’ transfer costs (read: ‘Agent fees) bonus payments, influence season length and better limit number of games, profit share rights, have a unified media voice, and generally just stop the cnuts in charge exploiting them. That’s not a unanimous vote for ‘player power’. That’s a term used by an unregulated industry that exploits its staff at every turn and gets pissy when they ask for something they don’t want to give. The TOTALITY of football should be ran by Unionised players. Period.
High powered agents, can’t - and wouldn’t - do any of that. They suck the soul out of football under the guise of working for the talent. They do not. They Fcuk up the sport and Mino was King Kong.
Any football fan mounting the loss of Mino the agent, is hopelessly misguided.
RIP for the 54 year old human that leaves behind a family, friends, and many loved ones. It’s no age at all, especially for one of the wealthiest people on the planet. Tragedy.
Rest in peace.
But feck me, he destroyed a lot of the romantic side of football, turning it into a circus of a business. Hated him passionately.
But feck me, he destroyed a lot of the romantic side of football, turning it into a circus of a business. Hated him passionately.
What the hell is wrong with you? Damn you're the first fan of an agent i've ever met.
Don't believe me? Here's the FA regulation regarding intermediaries :
It's also the same in Italy since 2018 (art17.6 and art 21 of the REGOLAMENTO CONI AGENTI SPORTIVI).
Again, you're grossly misinterpreting the decision in the De Vrij case.
He lived life to the full
Mate, a judge in Amsterdam ruled that adherence to fifa's (and other such bodies) regulations regarding intermediaries is not what decides if there is a client agent relationship. Did you even bother to read my post?. Last spoiler. Put it in google translate if you don't trust my summary of it.What the hell is wrong with you? Damn you're the first fan of an agent i've ever met.
Don't believe me? Here's the FA regulation regarding intermediaries :
It's also the same in Italy since 2018 (art17.6 and art 21 of the REGOLAMENTO CONI AGENTI SPORTIVI).
Again, you're grossly misinterpreting the decision in the De Vrij case.
No need for the ad hominems, just because you're proven wrong.
For someone that pretends to be a hotshot lawyer, you sure find it hard to understand that:
Law of the land > fifa regulation.
edit:
It must therefore be assessed whether there was a contract relationship between [claimant] and SEG. The position of SEG *** tacitly not to conclude a mediation agreement on the basis of the regulations of FIFA, KNVB and FIGC is not decisive. These provisions of regulation within a particular sport are not equivalent to legislation. However, they can have disciplinary consequences within the sports federation to which the intermediary belongs. It is a circumstance that can be taken into account, but not of decisive importance under the applicable Dutch law. Under Dutch law, the mediation agreement did not have to be entered into in writing (Article 7:427 in conjunction with 7:417 paragraph 2 in conjunction with 7:408 paragraph 3 of the Dutch Civil Code) as [claimant] was acting in the exercise of his profession. 4.10. As stated above and also confirms Article 7:427 of the Dutch Civil Code (last sentence), it is not necessary for the existence of a mediation agreement *** the mediator is paid by [claimant]. The payment by a principal ([claimant]) to the intermediary (SEG) may be an indication of this, but the payment by the principal ([claimant]) is not decisive. More often than not, the club paid the intermediary's fee directly, without the intervention of [claimant] . Feyenoord also did this, while in *** contract SEG ([name 2]) was appointed as the intermediary of [claimant]. The statement of SEG *** [claimant] should have drawn the conclusion from this *** SEG did not act for him is therefore not valid. 4.11. In support of the fact that *** SEG has mediated for him, [claimant] has submitted various e-mails, social media expressions and presentations that SEG has made for him.
Last edited:
One of the more shittier takes on the internet. A player's union has literally nothing to do with an agent negotiating on behalf of a client.
Must be cool to be a hotshot lawyer 
They're also "useful" in managing strategical deals so top English clubs can offload some deadwood on big wages, even if it is for those shady undisclosed fee/wages like the Alexis Sanchez loan/transfer. Agents can now vouche for market movements between clubs where they have very good leverage with the CEO.
The entire industry being abolished means that not necessarily bright young footballers would deal with expert negotiators when signing a contract. Consequently, the players would get significantly less money, while the owners of football clubs would get more money.
Players hiring agents to do the negotiates for them levels the playing field.
That's what people want, they want to see their club exploit players.
Bit toxic some of the views I here about him. Always sad when someone dies ahead of their time. Pretty sure he was well liked by the players he represented. Regarding united and him, united knew who they were getting into bed with.
He is part of the show? I mean - this is how things are and how the game is played. In wich ways does it benefit fans to cling on to nosthalgic values that are neither true for club or players?
Mate, please stop because you're clearly out of your depth. The article you quote means the opposite of what you think it means. The fact a dutch court recognized there was a binding contract doesnt mean that the agent complied or did not comply with the regulations enforced where the transaction took place.
Yeah, sure, no need for the ad nominem like ironically calling someone a hotshot internet lawyer right ?
Must be cool to be a hotshot lawyer
not getting that reference
Moving the goal posts are we?
Here's your initial reply that triggered this exchange:
The court in Amsterdam did rule there was a binding contract despite there not being a written contract. And I'll refer you back to my post detailling the De Vrij - SEG with quotes anyone that's fluent in Dutch can confirm say this.
It's a common business practice for top agents like SEG and Raiola. They get paid by the clubs on the contracts the player signs for the club. The agents are named on those contracts as mediators. That's their business model. It's how Raiola negotiates millions for himself on the transfers. He's doesn't have a fixed rate through a contract with a client. If you're read even on 1 article on the De Vrij v SEG case (or the actual ruling), this would've been explained to you.
Here's an article from "Het Parool" that says he never used contracts:
"The agent, who only lived 'till 54, never used contracts his business relationship with clients"
It's been mentioned in every top tier Dutch newsources since his passing, including NOS, AD, De Telegraaf.
Where do you get off saying I'm misrepresenting the De Vrij SEG case?
Do you read Dutch? No? So you're knowledge of the case is based on ... which articles exactly? Post them.
All you've done is written 4 posts that say:
- "You're wrong"
- "I'm a hotshot laywer"
- "here's a FIFA regulation I've copy pasted"
Do yourself a favor and stop digging with the hotshot laywer act. You've haven't posted anything of substance once with regards to a case you've demonstrated you know nothing about, except for one irrelevant fifa regulation.
He was doing it on Pogba's instructions. He doesn't force players to move clubs, he just finds out what they want and do whatever possible to make it happen while ensuring he and his clients get paid as much as possible.
Im sure the £20-30M he wanted for the Haaland transfer was to get his client much as possible,he was lining his own pockets and free transfers and lower transfer clauses helped him do that so please dont even start.
Yours is a shittier take than mine by definition. If a Players Union has end to end specified control of all players welfare and opportunities, agents are worthless administrators.
Fcuk dying at 54 years of age with over £100m in the bank.