Problem is, you can bet your bottom dollar that the majority that want Skriniar have barely seen him play.
Milan Skriniar
- Thread starter devilish
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Problem is, you can bet your bottom dollar that the majority that want Skriniar have barely seen him play.
Read his thread all the time and I can remember quite a bit of unfair criticism, but not any of this type. Looked through his thread now too, but did not find examples.
Your analysis of the situation is good, but the context you put it in makes it appear like a «straw man» with the intention of gloryfing Smalling.
Cows in the other field are always better as they eat that greener grass...
Seems to me every morning there is a different CB that we are interested in. Scouts watching several players around the world, so we will just have to wait and see if or who we will bring in.
I have lots of people on ignore and yet see it everytime. Not sure whats wrong with your account
I'm sure thats true as well.
He does that a lot. He looks to glorify Smalling at every chance.
Ive watched a lot of Inters matches because I like Perisic and Icardi and in my opinion Skriniar is quality.
That wasnt the point of contention though. I think everyone agrees he's really good.
The point was that even though he's one of the better CBs at least this week, he did something that Smalling tends to get some blame for. Because most people wont take the time to watch full matches of other clubs with the hyped up players being talked about, they arent going to see things that are the same between our best CB and one of the top CBs. This is an easy example because it happened to be the winning goal at the end of the match so I'm sure anyone can find a clip of it.
But making 1 mistake while he's covering for his leftback doesnt mean Skriniar isnt one of the best CBs around. It might if he did the same thing on a weekly basis. But covering for his fullback wasnt the mistake, it was allowing Sissoko to run easily inside him from that point. As long as thats doesnt become a pattern I'm sure it wont affect his reputation too much because its almost impossible to find a CB that never makes a mistake. Its about how often they make them and whether its an individual error or like in this case, a CB covering for someone else who didnt do a very good job.
The diffrence is that Skriniar is only 23 and Smalliing is almost 30. Skriniar is displaying world class potential at 23 and with Smalling at the same age you could never say the same. So it's only natural one would give a young potential world class talent a bit of leeway due to his age. If he was still making mistakes regularly at 29 then there would be problems.
I would prefer us to sign Milenkovic over Skriniar though.
I would prefer us to sign Milenkovic over Skriniar though.
Great! Should be easy to provide a few examples then...
No need, anyone else can read the Smalling and matchday threads. I've no reason to need to convince you that something thats easy to find exists. I'm not going to do work you cant be bothered to do
It definitely happens, although perhaps not quite as much as Ekeke makes out (in saying that, I don't normally read the match day threads so maybe it happens more in there). I remember a month or two ago in particular quite a big discussion about it with a lot of people attacking Smalling for that exact situation. No idea what thread it was in though.
Skriniar is certainly the more established player right now but Milenkovic could well become the better player in a few years. It's whether the club wants to overpay for (more likely) top performances right from the bat or pay less for potentially higher reward in the mid to long term.
This is typical @Ekeke tbf. He's active in all threads about CB's that we're linked to trying to find ways to downplay why they are rated so highly only to compare them to smalling as he did in his post.
He rates Smalling highly and defends him at all costs usually at the expense of another player. Go to the Lindelof thread and you'll see him up to his usual tricks in there also.
Yep its a trick to provide examples of our top targets doing the same thing as our current players.
Its completely unreasonable to show and explain how more popular CBs make some of the same mistakes our current CBs are chastised for.I thought this was the Skriniar thread?
Yep its a trick to provide examples of our top targets doing the same thing as our current players.
The trick in this case appear to be making up examples.
Sorry if that is not the case. And as I said, I agree he gets fair a bit of unfair stick to.
Chelsea last year at their place, the Morata goal. Smalling forced to go to Bakayoko, Valencia doesn't react and cover, a 2 week ongoing debate ensued, with the Smalling critics adamant that he had made the wrong choice. Of course if had stayed with Morata and Bakayoko smashed it in at the near post the debate would have been about that being the wrong choice.
Ekeke is not wrong, take Smalling out of it, his overall point seems to be on how we will forensically analyze goals we concede looking for blame but rarely give the same scrutiny to our hyped targets. Defenders, even the very best make a lot of minor mistakes in every game, a well organized unit is about being able to react and play scrambling defense so those little errors don't become a real issue.
Ekeke is not wrong, take Smalling out of it, his overall point seems to be on how we will forensically analyze goals we concede looking for blame but rarely give the same scrutiny to our hyped targets. Defenders, even the very best make a lot of minor mistakes in every game, a well organized unit is about being able to react and play scrambling defense so those little errors don't become a real issue.
I'm sorry you're so lazy.
If thats the case I agree. Obviously made the correct choice, while Bailey and Valencia should have «pushed in».
Exactly correct. Any CB will make mistakes, its the regularity that is important. In this case the "mistake" actually starts from good defending (covering a fullback) its just that the team as a whole dont position and cover each other like they are supposed to. Something that happens often with our defense.
I prefer to be fair and value what we have already. They are part of our squad and those are the players and the team we are supposed to be supporting.
A lot of posters seem to have the opposite general outlook and prefer everything we don't have purely on the basis that its a change. All grass is greener because its not our player thats been here for years.
Again Skriniar looks good to me from what I've seen. He just made a mistake like any other CB.
I think it would be better to sign Milenkovic and Aldeweireld in the summer. Which in turn will save us at least £10m imo and would benefit our squad more than just shelling a huge amount on just Skriniar. Would be better long term planning too..
All centre backs make mistakes, we can micro analyse every goal to bring fault to a CB. My point is you're always looking at the negatives of all defenders that aren't Smalling as opposed to looking at some of the areas where they vastly outperform Smalling.Yep its a trick to provide examples of our top targets doing the same thing as our current players.
I get your angle that Smalling is over criticised so you look to offer balance but what you end up doing is the opposite. When poster's say Smalling is poor on the ball which is a downright fact, you disingenuously use passing stats to claim he isn't. Smalling is in his 9th season here, there's nothing new about him we don't already know. He reached a point in 2015/16 where he was loved on here and people finally thought he was ready to kick on to the next level but ultimately he wasn't. That's the problem at United right now, many good players but not enough to get us to the next level.
Skriniar is 23yo and already established as one of the top defenders in Serie A. He's aggressive, very strong in the tackle and can play out from the back both short and long. More importantly he's flexible and can play both RCB and LCB. None of our current CBs can do that, Lindelof tries but its clear he's uncomfortable there. His upside far exceeds Smalling's so while they may make similar errors now, its worth remembering one is in his peak years while the other is 23.
Long story short, this is the Skriniar thread so lets discuss him.
What exactly is the point of discusding a one of error Skrinar made? All defenders make errors. Its the the regularity of the errors and how many are unforced that seperates great defenders from poor ones. Our current ones make way too many unforced errors which is why JM wants the oldest ones replaced with upgrades. It's that simple
I haven't seen enough of either Milenkovic or Skriniar to judge who would be the better player long term. But getting Milenkovic and Alderweireld would make sense from a short and long term perspective.
For certain.
They'll presume he's like Vidic, even though people who have watched him play quite worryingly say he's "not that strong" in the air.
Everytime I have seen him he seems to be dragged out of position quite easily and his acceleration is not that great in 1v1s but he has great timing in tackling and is great on the ball. He is still young and I would say he is still better than John Stones. Alderweireld isn't looking like the same player anymore. Imo we should focus on Koulibaly who is the perfect age to lead the backline and someone who will be ready to drop straight into the defence.
I have seen some footage of Skriniar and I feel he reads the game well, is good in the tackle and can play the ball out. With Koulibaly (my first choice) having signed a new deal, I believe that Skriniar may be the best option. Hopefully we can tempt both himself and Inter into agreeing some kind of deal to bring him to Manchester.
I don't know much about Milenkovic as I do about Koulibaly and Skiriniar but you seem to be his biggest advocate.
Maybe you're right. How much would Milenkovic cost? Would it be feasible to get him with Koulibaly in the same window?
Milenkovic is 21 -
Skriniar will be 24 in Feb
Koulibaly is 27
How would you rate them in terms short term value (long term value) out of 10?
For example, I see Koulibaly as a 10 in terms of immediate impact. And an 7 for long term as he will be 28 next year. Therefofe my rating for him is 10(7).
What would you give Milenkovic and Škriniar?
Milenkovic only plays for Fiorentina and 21 is too young for what you need. Koulibaly would give four years of top performance and bring the players around him on. I think if he came in in January you’d have a good chance of going top 4. Skriniar, haven’t seen enough of but looks better than Milenkovic. What about Gimenez or Hernandez at Atletico Madrid?
Koulibaly is a 10 for immediate impact no question and the best CB we could possibly get in the summer. Getting him and Milenkovic may not be feasible due to our needs in other areas of the pitch.
Milenkovic would cost between £40m - £50m imo. Atletico Madrid had a £36m bid turned down for him last summer.
I agree with your short and long term rating on Koulibaly.
Skriniar would be a 8 short term and 6 long term. His biggest flaw for me would be a lack of pace which would expose him, especially playing a high line. Spending a ridiculous amount on him wouldn't be very prudent.
Milenkovic would be a 6.5 short term and a 9 long term. Playing out of position at RB for his club shows his versatility and ability as a footballer. But long term, he's a CB that will improve considerably. He's quick and good in aerial duels defensively. Good on the ball, good passing accuracy etc.
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Koulibaly has signed a new contract FYI
Most likely because they sense a bidding storm and want to maximise how much they get for him.
He wouldn't have signed it if he wanted to move
My general thought is that we go all in for Koulibaly. The pool are about to do title number 19. What we need to ensure is that we get to 21 before they get to 20.
Koulibaly would the first step in doing so. As Sir Alex said, all great sides are built with a solid defence.
I think he might also DDG sleep better at night.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45389577
Didn't he sign an extension till 2023 earlier this year?
If he has signed a new deal, its probably a bump in wages more than anything.
Doesn't mean much other than suggesting he won't be moving in Jan.. He might stay at Napoli.. he might leave at the end of the season.. He has a bump up in wages to keep him happy till then.
Numerous factors go into it. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes.
I doubt Koulibaly is happening if he's just signed an extension. Its possible but its certainly far less likely now.