Middle East Politics

KirkDuyt said:
The messenger has little to do with the fact that Trump is pulling out of a shitshow that his country's invasion of Iraq helped create in a big way. Now he says, well, it's closer to Europe, so you clean up our mess.

Promising to do a shitty thing and then making good on your promise to do said shitty thing doesn't make it any less shitty.
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I agree. If it came across as if I personally approved of Trump's action, then I assure you that's not the case, it's just that Trump is so divisive that any attempt to write about him in a neutral way tends to come across as partisan. I suggest you have a read of my thoughts on the Syrian Kurdish role in this war to deduce how I'm currently feeling on the matter.

Fosu-Mens said:
Cyprus, Syria and Iraq?
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Yup.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
When ISIS came onto the scene I felt a fear I've never felt before. They seemed more powerful and dangerous than Al-Qaeda and with every city they took I couldn't bare to think about how many thousands of lives were being utterly destroyed by them and how many millions could potentially become their victims.

It got to the point where they seemed unstoppable and wouldn't stop growing. And thanks to people like the Kurds they were brought to their knees and to the edge of utter destruction.

After all that, for the US not only to abandon them but to also take credit for the incredible sacrifices of a multitude of people, it's pretty fecking disgusting. The Kurds deserve much better than this and I can't believe how indifferent our media is being about it.
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Welcome to the real world.

Now you sit back and see how usa and europe allow the turks to roll over the kurds in the garb of finishing off isis.
 
VidaRed said:
Welcome to the real world.

Now you sit back and see how usa and europe allow the turks to roll over the kurds in the garb of finishing off isis.
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The real world sucks, I want to go back to the world with lollipops and Santa.
 
feck me, the information/propaganda/fake news war seems to be particularly bad in this conflict’s opening days.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
When ISIS came onto the scene I felt a fear I've never felt before. They seemed more powerful and dangerous than Al-Qaeda and with every city they took I couldn't bare to think about how many thousands of lives were being utterly destroyed by them and how many millions could potentially become their victims.

It got to the point where they seemed unstoppable and wouldn't stop growing. And thanks to people like the Kurds they were brought to their knees and to the edge of utter destruction.

After all that, for the US not only to abandon them but to also take credit for the incredible sacrifices of a multitude of people, it's pretty fecking disgusting. The Kurds deserve much better than this and I can't believe how indifferent our media is being about it.
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It is now an especially terrifying situation because a lot of the Muslim world see Erdogan as a messiah.
 
I fear that members of the PKK will seek to support their kin over the border with increased violence in Turkey itself, acts which will then be seized upon by Erdogan as proof he was right all along to invade Syria to prevent the increased domestic violence that he himself has created. Depressing.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
When ISIS came onto the scene I felt a fear I've never felt before. They seemed more powerful and dangerous than Al-Qaeda and with every city they took I couldn't bare to think about how many thousands of lives were being utterly destroyed by them and how many millions could potentially become their victims.

It got to the point where they seemed unstoppable and wouldn't stop growing. And thanks to people like the Kurds they were brought to their knees and to the edge of utter destruction.

After all that, for the US not only to abandon them but to also take credit for the incredible sacrifices of a multitude of people, it's pretty fecking disgusting. The Kurds deserve much better than this and I can't believe how indifferent our media is being about it.
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That’s what happens when the West walks away from interventions in places like Syria. A lack of moral responsibility cuts multiple ways.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Any examples of the guilty parties?
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I’m not sure because I’ve no idea what to believe. Just seeing claims and counter claims, so I’m choosing not to believe anything I see on Twitter until I’m given a good reason to.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
As he explained yesterday, Saudi Arabia is paying for them - which is a comforting thought.
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Yep, the US military have reduced themselves now to nothing more than mercenaries for the Saudis, the nation which produced the 9/11 hijackers. At least that’s one thing Trumps being honest about, albeit shamelessly.
 
2cents said:
I’m not sure because I’ve no idea what to believe. Just seeing claims and counter claims, so I’m choosing not to believe anything I see on Twitter until I’m given a good reason to.
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It's almost impossible to get any true unbiased reports. The whole Syrian civil war has been like this.
 
SDF statement:

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Better late than never I suppose.

I wonder how the US would respond if regime forces start engaging the Turks.
 
I think this conflict deserves its own thread.

This has the potential to get scarily big really fast if Syrian/Russian forces start direct combat with NATO aligned Turkey. It might actually fit in really well with Putin's end goal of dismantling NATO if that precise scenario develops and US refuses to defend the NATO allied Turkey saying they forbade them from starting the offensive.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
I think this conflict deserves its own thread.

This has the potential to get scarily big really fast if Syrian/Russian forces start direct combat with NATO aligned Turkey. It might actually fit in really well with Putin's end goal of dismantling NATO if that precise scenario develops and US refuses to defend the NATO allied Turkey saying they forbade them from starting the offensive.
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Yeah it’s a decisive moment for Turkey. Assuming Erdogan is being sincere claiming this is purely an anti-PKK operation, he should in theory find the prospect of the regime taking control of the north-east acceptable. Although given that Hafiz al-Assad used to be one of the biggest supporters for the PKK in the 80s and 99s, he would probably want some assurances from the Russians that Assad won’t be keeping the SDF for a rainy day in the future when they might come in handy (say, to pressure the Turks over Afrin/Idlib).

So if Erdogan doesn’t back down, and insists on taking Kobane, Manbij, etc., it’ll say a lot about his actual ambitions and what he believes Turkey deserves to get out of this war.
 
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Wednesday at Stoke said:
I think this conflict deserves its own thread.

This has the potential to get scarily big really fast if Syrian/Russian forces start direct combat with NATO aligned Turkey. It might actually fit in really well with Putin's end goal of dismantling NATO if that precise scenario develops and US refuses to defend the NATO allied Turkey saying they forbade them from starting the offensive.
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NATO is a defense treaty though? How would it be triggered in Turkey's favour when their soldiers are fighting in Syria?
 
do.ob said:
NATO is a defense treaty though? How would it be triggered in Turkey's favour when their soldiers are fighting in Syria?
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  • Collective defence means that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.
  • The principle of collective defence is enshrined in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty.
  • NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time in its history after the 9/11 terrorist attacks against the United States.
  • NATO has taken collective defence measures on several occasions, for instance in response to the situation in Syria and in the wake of the Russia-Ukraine crisis.
  • NATO has standing forces on active duty that contribute to the Alliance’s collective defence efforts on a permanent basis.
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Its kind of implicit that any attack on one of the signatories is an attack on everyone else.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Its kind of implicit that any attack on one of the signatories is an attack on everyone else.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm
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But this isn't something as black and white (to Westeners) as 9/11, Turkey aren't acting within a globally recognized mandate (quite the opposite actually). If Art 5 would be in play it would've been triggered from the start, not after Turkey meet resistance on their offense?!
 
Thread showing the conflicting expectations of the SDF and regime going into this agreement together:

 
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