[Rednotdead]

Carrick is 33 now. If anyone thinks he can sustain a high level of performance they're kidding themselves.

 

[Stack]

I think the combination doesn't work for quite a few reasons. Firstly, schneiderlin sitting deeper than Carrick just doesn't make sense. Carrick has to be the deepest mid. They both end up looking like they want to be in schneiderlin's place when they play together.

Why schneiderlin + BFS or Carrick + BFS works is because BFS is extremely comfortably playing high up the pitch with the ball. Neither of Carrick and schneiderlin can do that.

Why not?.

 

[Varun]

Why not?.

Neither look as comfortable in the advanced positions as they look while they are sitting deep. Carrick for all his passing ability just doesn't seem willing to move up the pitch while playing 1-2s and stitching moves together. Much happier sitting deep.

 

[United again!]

I think the combination doesn't work for quite a few reasons. Firstly, schneiderlin sitting deeper than Carrick just doesn't make sense. Carrick has to be the deepest mid. They both end up looking like they want to be in schneiderlin's place when they play together.

Carrick is not a pressing defender, he's a zone "wait and see" defender. (When he is defending static and in transition) That is pretty much why they don't work, for it two work you need similar players who are expert at pressing. For all Carrick's passing qualities he can't defend one on one to a man for toffee. Stick him in a zone or in transition and he always looks to clog the lanes instead of pressing. That is pretty much why they look like they get in each others way as well.

Also when we transition from winning the ball Carrick almost never offers a quick one two. He just gets it and looks for a medium range pass almost always. A few times MS has played a quick one two only to be bypassed and be miles ahead of the position only to either stop and have to slow himself down or just join the attack leaving Carrick alone.

The guy is 34 and on his last legs, not that he had very mobile legs even in the last 5 years.

 

[Varun]

Carrick is not a pressing defender, he's a zone "wait and see" defender. (When he is defending static and in transition) That is pretty much why they don't work, for it two work you need similar players who are expert at pressing. For all Carrick's passing qualities he can't defend one on one to a man for toffee. Stick him in a zone or in transition and he always looks to clog the lanes instead of pressing. That is pretty much why they look like they get in each others way as well.

Also when we transition from winning the ball Carrick almost never offers a quick one two. He just gets it and looks for a medium range pass almost always. A few times MS has played a quick one two only to be bypassed and be miles ahead of the position only to either stop and have to slow himself down or just join the attack leaving Carrick alone.

The guy is 34 and on his last legs, not that he had very mobile legs even in the last 5 years.

I don't agree with that. The way Carrick and schneiderlin defend are very contrasting obviously as you pointed out but it can definitely work well together. The problem I believe lies in who should be deeper. A presser + an interceptor looks a good combo.

I agree with the 2nd bit more or less. That's what I said is the difference between BFS and Carrick. Carrick always looks to play the medium to longer range pass when he can.

 

[United again!]

I agree with the 2nd bit more or less. That's what I said is the difference between BFS and Carrick. Carrick always looks to play the medium to longer range pass when he can.

Yeah, that is Carricks thing, look up and snap a quick fire ball no matter what.

The problem I believe lies in who should be deeper. A presser + an interceptor looks a good combo.

In a 4-3-3 yeah, but not in a 4-2-3-1. The presser just gets bogged down by the lack of pressing from the other guy which is what we are seeing. Then the 10 plays like a second striker and offers little help in transition.

 

[K2K]

We should be looking for a replacement for him and BFS though, someone much younger..not necessarily for signing them next season, but just keep tabs on one..this kind of player is hard to find..a dictator of sorts.

 

[Varun]

Yeah, that is Carricks thing, look up and snap a quick fire ball no matter what.


In a 4-3-3 yeah, but not in a 4-2-3-1. The presser just gets bogged down by the lack of pressing from the other guy which is what we are seeing. Then the 10 plays like a second striker and offers little help in transition.

Yeah, the gap being created due to both of them sitting that deep is quite ridiculous. Rooney being shite compounded that problem.

 

[United again!]

Yeah, the gap being created due to both of them sitting that deep is quite ridiculous. Rooney being shite compounded that problem.

If Schniederlin had Carrick's level of snap judgement passing then he'd be an absolute god of a player. These perfect 10's all-round players just don't exist, sadly.

Rooney hasn't been that shite in my opinion, all of the people who've tried to play 10 have different problems that completely negate their ability in the role. Depay and Januzaj had no clue what they were doing and where they were supposed to be. Mata plays with his back to goal for some reason and Rooney just isn't that creative, despite being more positionally disciplined.

Some sort of balance has to be struck somewhere. It seems like a system where you push one rod in and another pops out somewhere.

 

[berbatrick]

I think our most dominant midfield performance was vs Liverpool, and he was at the heart of it. Reports of his death are greatly exaggerated, he is still the best CM at the club at interceptions, aerially, and at long passing. His game requires fitness but not physicality, I think if used cleverly he can be used for a season or 2 more.

 

[wiz4231]

We should be looking for a replacement for him and BFS though, someone much younger..not necessarily for signing them next season, but just keep tabs on one..this kind of player is hard to find..a dictator of sorts.

Goss from the U21 seems promising. If and when Strootman finally gets over his injury woes I'd like him to replace Carrick. As for Bastian we already have Herrera and I think eventually Pereira will develop into that type of CM.

 

[K2K]

Goss from the U21 seems promising. If and when Strootman finally gets over his injury woes I'd like him to replace Carrick. As for Bastian we already have Herrera and I think eventually Pereira will develop into that type of CM.

You can never be too sure how youth players turn out, especially with us as we havent really produced a mainstay in the first team for almost 20 years now.

As for Strootman, he's just had a third knee surgery, its not looking good at all for him.

 

[Stack]

Neither look as comfortable in the advanced positions as they look while they are sitting deep. Carrick for all his passing ability just doesn't seem willing to move up the pitch while playing 1-2s and stitching moves together. Much happier sitting deep.

Maybe he is playing to instruction?

 

[Varun]

If Schniederlin had Carrick's level of snap judgement passing then he'd be an absolute god of a player. These perfect 10's all-round players just don't exist, sadly.

Rooney hasn't been that shite in my opinion, all of the people who've tried to play 10 have different problems that completely negate their ability in the role. Depay and Januzaj had no clue what they were doing and where they were supposed to be. Mata plays with his back to goal for some reason and Rooney just isn't that creative, despite being more positionally disciplined.

Some sort of balance has to be struck somewhere. It seems like a system where you push one rod in and another pops out somewhere.

Mata or Herrera should be the 10.

Maybe he is playing to instruction?

Possible but why would BFS be allowed to do it while Carrick is not when they were playing the same role?

 

[United again!]

Mata or Herrera should be the 10.

Yeah fair play on Herrera, he doesn't look right playing there imo, though but he probably is the best option.

 

[Lynk]

We just look stagnant with him in the team in a midfield two.

 

[finneh]

We just look stagnant with him in the team in a midfield two.

The problem is exacerbated by him playing with Schneiderlin who also doesn't make himself available for the pass.

It should be Carrick or Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger or Herrera.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

A lot of focus on Rooney's poor play this season, but Carrick has arguably been just as poor at times.

 

[MDFC Manager]

We need to buy a youngish play-dictating midfielder soon. Carrick isn't really upto it anymore and Schweinsteiger can't play every game.

 

[ottosec]

Worst player on the pitch in the first half, if we don't count Rooney. Had a really shit season so far.

 

[Jev]

His passing has been uncharacteristically poor. He's generally not been convincing this season, for me he should be fourth-choice midfielder. Schneiderlin does the defensive part better, Schweinsteiger has more authority and creativity in terms of controlling the game, and Herrera has energy, drive and attacking verve. Carrick looks slow and average these days.

 

[bosnian_red]

Needs to get back to last seasons form... Probably will around November time but he's always poor in August/September

 

[Devil may care]

I wonder if at his age he's struggling to find form without playing game after game, Scholes was said to be like that and didn't like rotation.

 

[bucky]

I wonder if at his age he's struggling to find form without playing game after game, Scholes was said to be like that and didn't like rotation.

Carrick always started seasons like this. You could obviously be right, but I think he's going to improve.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

I think some of the reason to his average performances is that we wen't with a double pivot midfield, he doesn't have the legs anymore, never been the biggest runner but now it is very visible.

 

[kps88]

We go through this every year with him.

 

[Bojan11]

We need to buy a youngish play-dictating midfielder soon. Carrick isn't really upto it anymore and Schweinsteiger can't play every game.

Gundogan would be perfect.


Like I said last week. Carrick off the bench has been very good. But he hasn't been great when he's started.

 

[NoPace]

Gundogan would be perfect.

Came on against Hoffenheim midweek and was truly brilliant. Dictated everything, demanded the ball, held on to it just enough to allow for runs and then played great ball after great ball. Scholes would have been proud of the performance.

 

[tom porter]

I'm not sure why he's been so tentative this season. We have our best midfiled in a long time which i thought would elevate Carrick's performances but alas it hasn't happened. Will the real Michael Carrick please stand up?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Worst player on the pitch in the first half, if we don't count Rooney. Had a really shit season so far.

Not sure how Carrick's getting all the stick and yet people are saying Schneiderlin was good... they were both as bad as each other in the first half, with Morgan being the worse of the two for me.

 

[Adisa]

We really need to start looking at replacing him. He will be 35 by the start of next season.

 

[#07]

Not sure how Carrick's getting all the stick and yet people are saying Schneiderlin was good... they were both as bad as each other in the first half, with Morgan being the worse of the two for me.

Agreed. To call Schneiderlin's use of the ball uncreative would be an understatement.

The issue I saw was that Carrick and Schneiderlin are both holding players. They both sit deep and like to operate in the same areas. Playing them together, especially against a team as poor as Sunderland, was overkill. Whenever they looked up there was nobody in the #8 role to shuttle the ball to, and they either had to go long or recycle the ball backwards.

It would help both Carrick and Schneiderlin if, generally, they were rotated with one another not paired with one another.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

Think a lot of people have a misunderstanding of what the Carrick and Schneiderlin midfield partenership does.

Seems a strong expectation for both to create things from deep and a lack of appreciation for the defensive wall and solidity they offer.

Their primary function is to ensure structure is in place to benefit our attacking players and release them from a fair chunk of their defensive duties. Did they do that today? Completely.

Creativity comes from Mata, Memphis and Rooney primarily with full backs and this partnership thereafter. Given how little Rooney moves in the first half, that leaves longer, riskier passes toward Memphis, Martial and Mata to create. In order to do that, that's asking for trouble in Van Gaal's philosophy if it's attempted and failed repeatedly. Outcome; ball possession is safer.

Bastian and Herrera are the ones to expect creativity from. Schneiderlin and Carrick are defensive blocks, though each in different ways, Carrick positionally with Schneiderlin relying on energy more.

The sooner this is accepted and the less we expect something that is not their primary function, the better.

With Carrick we win more often than not. Coincidence? No. Appreciated? Somehow still not fully.

 

[wiz4231]

The problem is exacerbated by him playing with Schneiderlin who also doesn't make himself available for the pass.

It should be Carrick or Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger or Herrera.

This, I've said this since preseason. I don't understand what LVG is thinking when he puts out his CM pairing. Either he plays Bastian + Herrera which is too attacking and leaves us exposed at the back or he plays Carrick + Morgan which is too defensive and lacks Penetration upfront. We need 1 player from each pairing to play together. For example Bastian + Carrick against Liverpool was perfect, you couldn't ask anymore from your CM.

 

[ottosec]

Not sure how Carrick's getting all the stick and yet people are saying Schneiderlin was good... they were both as bad as each other in the first half, with Morgan being the worse of the two for me.

I can't agree with that, Carrick was worse for me this game, our worst player, actually, with Rooney turning it around in the second half. Schneiderlin ended up having a good game, imo. Michael was also crap in the Saints game, but in that game Schneiderlin was also shit.

He had a really poor season so far, only good game I can remember from him is the Liverpool game. He usually is very consistent, I don't know what happened to him this season.

 

[Devil may care]

Carrick always started seasons like this. You could obviously be right, but I think he's going to improve.

He's always been a slow starter but I just wonder if relies on playing regularly in order to find his form, plus he's heading towards 35 so it's not impossible that his legs just aren't suited to the double pivot role like they were to the system we played last season.

 

[itso 7]

I'm not sure why he's been so tentative this season. We have our best midfiled in a long time which i thought would elevate Carrick's performances but alas it hasn't happened. Will the real Michael Carrick please stand up?

The only player that could complement Carrick is Herrera and they haven't been played together even once. Bastien would have been fine alongside Carrick five years ago and Schneiderlin, unfortunately, is too limited on the ball to affect play in an offensive sense. Given the number of games we have this season we should have Carrick - Herrera and Schmidfield as two distinct midfield partnerships for rotation purposes. In enables us to keep players fresh.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Definitely had better games than the one yesterday. Hoping to see him and Schweinsteiger against Wolfsburg.

 

[Nighteyes]

I have no idea why he has rating of only 5.9 on here. He's been very good for most of the season when played. I can only assume people are getting giddy about our new toys in Bastian and Morgan, both of whom seem to be getting over the top praise.

 

[Scarecrow]

I have no idea why he has rating of only 5.9 on here. He's been very good for most of the season when played. I can only assume people are getting giddy about our new toys in Bastian and Morgan, both of whom seem to be getting over the top praise.

I don't think he's been very good when played but I agree with the last sentence. I think Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger have both been better but the difference is not as big as the ratings suggest.