Yet you only need to look at Busquets, who is seen as the best defensive midfielder in the world, to know that setting a tackles/interception goal is nonsense. His numbers are still very good (and at a high level). I don't know why you would look at that, rather than his defensive positioning, which is far more important than stats. Carrick is patently better than Gerrard and Lampard defensively. Form is an overrated factor when it comes to selecting national team squads.
Michael Carrick | 2013/14 Performances
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OK let's play, so what you are saying is he played his best football when he was playing slightly further forward but would want him on the plane to play the role he hasn't played as well in? Right make sense.Are you really saying that the season Carrick won Poty, he wasn't playing slightly further forward?
What an odd response.
It doesn't surprise me people still think Gerrard and Lampard are a good pairing in terms of teams balance. Hoddle had them both in his team to start against Italy. He's a fecking idiot.
Barry or Carrick should have been in the squad at the expense of Lampard. Even if they don't start, that more defensive option should be available.
Barry or Carrick should have been in the squad at the expense of Lampard. Even if they don't start, that more defensive option should be available.
Yep your correct and everybody else is wrong. You are talking about this seasons Carrick Lampard and Gerrard! Because Carrick has been poor but then Lampard has been tosh and Gerrard can no longer move faster than a snail!
Ha yeah cite speed as a weakness for Gerrard when defending Carrick, gotcha. Its not just me though is it, it's every English manager.
What's the point of these stats when comparing his defensive qualities to Gerrard and Lampard? Just watching them is enough.
What I am saying is
I couldn't give a flying feck if he goes to the WC or not.
Carrick is better than Gerrard and Lampard defensively. I am not even sure why this is even worthy of a debate.
Carrick has been defensively very good for us in all of his seasons. '12-13 he played slightly further forward which accounted for a slight decrease in his defensive stats, which of course does NOT mean he wasn't defensively good.
Are you sure you are not trolling?
My point was Barry or Carrick should have been in the squad rather than Lampard. Personally I'd prefer a midfield of Henderson Ox/Llana and Barkley as they all have good legs.
Barry hasnt made the squad either?
So its really going to be Gerrard as the deepest midfielder?
I got your point. That's why I asked if Barry hadnt made the squad either as I didnt remember. Barry and Carrick are the only 2 English players capable of playing that role, hilarious that they havent picked either.
Gerrard will be all over the place there but then he's the captain and sure to put in some last ditch tackle to make up for being in the wrong place in the 1st place and inevitably get praised by the English media. Oh well.
God here we go, i'm a troll now. First I agree he is better defensively, but not this mammoth gap that you seem to beleive, what I'm saying is he shouldn't be anywhere near that plane let along starting line up. He doesn't offer enough defensive cover to warrant a place in that deeper role than Gerrard or Lampard who would offer infinitely more in the creative and attacking departments.
That's funny why?Barry hasnt made the squad either?
So its really going to be Gerrard as the deepest midfielder?
I cite not just speed but also power as it was a massive part of Gerrards game when he was one of the best midfielders in the world. But those two assets are not there now. Where as Carrick never relied on speed have you got that or are you on a wind up? Plus yeah like you every England manager was right as we can see by the outstanding success they had.
Because there are 2 other players better than him in Carrick and Barry in the role. Also, unlike Liverpool, England dont quite have the tempo or high pressing in the team to help him out, he'l be a major liability.
Barry hasnt made the squad either?
So its really going to be Gerrard as the deepest midfielder?
Yeah. The other options at CM are Lampard, Barkley, Wilshere and Henderson.
Henderson is in the team? How you can justify Carrick being in that role ahead of Gerrard looking at how they have both performed last season is laughable, Gerrard has pissed all over Carrick. If the roles were reversed you'd be telling us how Gerrard doesn't even deserve to get a mention.
IMHO Gerrard Johnston and Jagielka are all a big weakness in England's team.
And Barry pissed all over Lampard and Wilshire but where is his inclusion?
I'd agree entirely.
Dont think any of them can play as the deepest CM. Henderson comes the closest but he'd be better off partnering a defensive mid than being one. Takes a lot of his best qualities out of his game.
Agreed but Jagielka is more because of a lack of options really. They should have taken one of Carrick Barry for the Gerrard's role and I hope they see sense and play Jones at RB over Johnson.
Henderson doesnt play that role, if he's forced to do so, it'd take out some of his better qualities. As I said, he'd be better off partnering a defensive mid than being one himself.
And Yes, Carrick was shit this season which is why its no real surprise he hasnt made the squad. What about Barry then? In your words, he's pissed over any English player playing that role. Not a fancy enough name to pick for the WC?
What does Lampard offer that the others don't? At this stage it is his distance shooting and him being an old face. Team balance is more important.
Lampard has been gash in the last two games. He is past it now.
Lampard has been gash in the last two games. He is past it now.
As I agreed earlier with Lawman I absolutely would've picked Barry, what's the fanciness of his name got to do with it?
I referenced Henderson because you he will 'help out ' Gerrard with defensive duties. We need to put out our best team that fits the system Hodgson wants to play, Carrick is nowhere near that.
Yeah I didnt see your post to Lawman.
And yes, if Gerrard plays there, Henderson is a must. Go with a pure attacking CM and England would be shat on every game.
Last season he was diabolical. The season before he was pretty shite defensively as well, like I said 1/3 when the best DM's in the league where at 5+/5+.
What in the actual feck are you on about a 'more attacking role'? His reading of the game is absolutely woeful and watching him for 90 minutes was a chore this season. The only redeeming factor was the fact that Moyes deployed him in a static role without anyone next to him mobile and defensive enough to keep the play centralized around his intercepting. The complete opposite of what he's good at. The 'Lucas Leiva' role if you will. When you cant close and hose and aren't mobile enough to make tackles then you end up having a season just like he had this season.
It's about pressing in effective areas. He played that static role last season under Moyes and was atrocious, because he simply cannot and has never been able to press properly. Sitting off players and nicking passes just isn't an effective strategy to hinge an entire defensive midfield combination on. Then when Carrick is played there it becomes even more diabolical.
He's tackling at 3 and 3. Marginally better, but when the team around you hardly ever loses possession then it can skew the results slightly.
Yes, have a look at these magnificent play reading skills at 20s. Pure play reading brilliance.
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Carrick a woeful reader of the game. Jesus. With that, am out of this thread.
So you show them a video of one game to prove your 'point' ( which is absolutely rubbish and I agree with sentiments of guys above ) ? You helluva told them.
I can't be arsed to hand it to you on the silver plate but go look for either Carragher or Neville's analysis of Carrick's game reading skill and just delete all of your posts.
Gerrard and Lampard better than Carrick defensively haha wow
Would you like me to go through the entire season and show you every little bit of Carrick having little to no reading of the game defensively? I'd love to but I just couldn't really be bothered. Having a bit of a moan because I produced a bit of factual evidence suggesting he's not that great at man marking players as one game isn't really constructive. The evidence is right there, like it or lump it.
It says a whole lot when he can't be counted on to be the main defensive presence in a top four midfield that goes on to have one of it's worst seasons ever. Even if it is a case of 1 out of 2. He had other more mobile players around last season in a system that was completely tailored to the way he plays the game. No surprises that a different strategy in terms of pressing and movement comes in and he struggles. He's just not really that good at it. No need to throw a big hissy fit. Look at the team as a whole, look at the players own stats, then look at how the player performed this season and try and string together an argument that supports his inclusion going forward. The only thing keeping him from a scathing attack is that he has title winner credit in the bank from playing in this system for the last five years. Commendable, but out of his comfort zone a complete liability of a player and not really the right one to be taking forward in a critical role.
Even in this rut I'd have him in an England jumper defending before those two. However in reality at club level there are about 30 or 40 footballers who are defending midfield way better than he did this season. Depending on what Hodgeson is going for his lack of selection is completely justified after this season.Gerrard and Lampard better than Carrick defensively haha wow
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Yea I think I know what I'll pick.
He was our best player in Fergie's last season. Let's not forget that. It's only 1 year ago, after all
RVP might have something to say about that.
The United midfield has been a huge problem for a number of years now, Carrick has to take his share of that blame.
Nonsense. Very often, Carrick has been our only viable option. It's not his fault our other midfielders have been / are shite.
Sometimes, I look at people post their weird opinions here, and compare their post counts to mine, and wonder how I took over a thousand posts to get promoted.
Since you want to bring T/I stats into it you should at least get them right. Carrick isn't getting 1/3 but 2.1/2.8.
-------- Mins per Tackle --------- Mins per Int. (in the league)
Carrick ----- 39.56 ------------------ 30.16
Barry --------33.12 ------------------ 55.84
Looks actually better than Barry's stats who you say has been way better. Who are these players getting 6/4 and 5/5 because I'm not seeing them. The best I'm seeing is Mile Jedinak who is getting 3.5/3.7.
Carrick has put in some very poor performances for United...But everyone sees it differently, if you want to exonerate Carrick from any blame whatsoever for United's midfield problems, then you're a bigger Carrick fan than i'll ever be.
I'm not saying he's never been poor. But during his United career, he's clearly been very good value.
Carrick and Barry share the same positions, but they are essentially different players. Carrick is a DM who is a deep lying playmaker, sort of. Positioning will always be his strong suit. While Barry is more of battling water-carrier DM.
Well, i go out on a limb and say that is because of the posts like that.Sometimes, I look at people post their weird opinions here, and compare their post counts to mine, and wonder how I took over a thousand posts to get promoted.
Yeah. Probably loads of wasted posts on my part.
Here's a more serious one: Its becoming increasingly unbelievable to me how long England perservered with Lampard and Gerrard, when Manchester United were winning league titles and appearing in multiple European cup finals with an English centre midfield pairing of Scholes and Carrick.
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