Metrics of Change - the Amorim Edition

bosnian_red said:
That's why it was doing my head in seeing people bitching that it was the same old shite
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Yeah you really do wonder if people watch the games at all some times. It's like they've already decided on a narrative themselves and will stick to that as long as possible.
 
Marwood said:
I think it'll only annoy people if in 6 months it comes with no end product. Which would be fair enough. It is supposed to be entertainment.
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I don't think that will happen.

It's only natural that with limited time to instil new ideas into the side, he will start with the defence and the shape. We're already seeing signs of progress in both those areas and I'm sure we will see signs of attacking progress then in time. Same goes for technical things like set piece defence. When he took over we all accepted it would take time for his system to bed in and this is simply what that feels like.
 
bosnian_red said:
Also we did it at the Etihad. 7 of their 10 games were away, the other 3 were a dominant win over Forest, the Feyenoord game where they had a comfortable lead and just bottled it to he last few minutes, and then the spurs shit show which was still basically a 2-2 xG game where Spurs were just very clinical and City missed chances. We just closed them down and controlled the game in a way that others haven't done against City on their turf. Liverpool TBF dominated them but it was at Anfield.
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Excellent post
 
bosnian_red said:
Flipping through fotmob individual games works, Ipswich is the only exception to it (basically no training time so understandable), but Plzen created the most open play xG against us with just 0.78 since that Ipswich game. Basically our system has been excellent defensively at shutting down opponents, restrict shots and restricting touches in our box.

That's why it was doing my head in seeing people bitching that it was the same old shite because of a couple of unlucky results or moments. We were conceding 20 shots per game last season FFS, regularly conceding over 2xG+, and just looked like amateurs the way we were coached. That's why I was such an annoying dick about ten hag last season too. The tactical set up was a disaster and led to that shit show. Amorim addressed that in a week.

It's of course a process to actually be a good all around side, but he's very clearly made instant impacts across the board with his coaching that is clearly represented in the metrics, and he's done it transitioning us to a controlled/possession style of play. We're getting above 60%, even 70% possession in games against easier opponents and the big games have been 50/50. The guy has been in charge for a month and is doing that. They are clear and excellent signs going forward and it's brilliant that he got the result yesterday to underline the progress.
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Agree completely. Anyone that says "same old shite" I just assume doesn't pay much attention apart from end results, because many of our matches have largely seen us control games like a modern top side should with the majority of our issues coming from poor quality in the final third (we all knew this beforehand) and poor set piece defense (will have to rectify that but that's not a general tactical approach thing).
 
didz said:
Won the all-important xG battle in every game bar the first against Ipswich and then obviously Arsenal, who were the only team to outshoot us. So we're not just having more possession, but seemingly more intent at the same time which is nice and backs the eye test.

Would you believe it, that has also seen us score more goals! After seven matches we're averaging 2 a game under Amorim as opposed to the ~1.14 you'd get taking an average of Ten Hag's last 7 games, or even the ~1.54 you get from all his competitive games (including Barnsley) this season.

Maths done quick and dirty, so feel free to correct if necessary, but it's looking like good early signs so far. It hasn't really felt like we've had much of a new manager bounce until maybe yesterday's positive result, but the green shoots are there.
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Whatever new manager bounce we may have had, it was nullified by our change in system/tactics/ideas. So it's even more encouraging that our increased goals are coming but not from a new manager bounce like happened when ole took over. At the same time, the one thing to be wary of is our attack is basically Amad at this time. But attack always takes longer to fix. And the different types of goals we have scored with overlapping/under lapping runs etc are also very encouraging
 
Marwood said:
I think it'll only annoy people if in 6 months it comes with no end product. Which would be fair enough. It is supposed to be entertainment.
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I mean end product requires attacking execution which ultimately is at the will of the players. Unless the team is directed to play like LvG's United (which won't happen), I don't think the end product will be at the fault of Amorim really. A manager can set up and coach a team to perfectly get into ideal attacking situations (isolating wingers, creating advantageous counters etc.) through perfect defensive structure to win the ball back and subsequent build up patterns, but ultimately goals are scored through attackers having consistent quality to make the right run/pass/decision to shoot and then having it come off properly.
 
OsloRed said:
Comparing the stats with the last permanent manager in charge makes sense. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it.
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The post I quoted wasn't exclusively about ETH. If you don't like my input, don't read it. Or reply.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Au contraire, mon frere. ETH had his own, dedicated, version of this thread. With the same thread title. Started at about the same point in his tenure. This thread isn’t about him at all. It’s all about Rubin.
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Debatable, but I'll leave now.
 
I can see better control in all the game that we play. Even though our CB is passing the ball at the back, you can clearly see that they bypass the press easily with passing Dalot and Mazrouai. The ball is then pass to Amad of the central midfielder who move the ball into space. Maguire has good passing range and so does Martinez so both will thrive under Amorim. De Ligt, Maguire or Yoro, we have CB to manage big centre forward like Harland or Wood but they have trouble with pacy striker. Amorim might move Yoro to middle CB to deal with them. Amorim has made us better playing as a unit and everyone has an opportunity to showcase their value to him even Antony has come in and put in a shift at RWB. The only thing that I don't like now is insistence to play Dalot. I don't know what Dalot has done to justify his place in the XI, he is prone to willing ball away and has contribute nothing in attack. Amorim needs to find someone within United to play LWB whether is it Amass. As long as Dalot is dropped, I will be happy.
 
Shipping late goals in very tight games became our defining characteristic under EtH.

Hope I’m not tempting fate but consecutive come-from-behind 2-1 wins, scoring late ones rather than conceding them feels like a big change.
 
Marwood said:
I think it'll only annoy people if in 6 months it comes with no end product. Which would be fair enough. It is supposed to be entertainment.
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Yeah that's true, although i was worried some people-mainly in the media, see Robbie Savage a few weeks ago for instance- would never stop harping on about the three at the back and how United can't do that, and "wingers and being direct is the United way" and all that stuff. I think if it's entertaining and we attack well with end product then everyone will be happy.

Possession is something I felt we haven't really valued for a long time though with our last three managers. It's nice to see us have a bit more of the ball.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Made Pep to have his worst opposition box touches in PL this season.



ETH made Brentford have 73 touches in our box

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Very good. It shows that we are starting to look like a football team with a clear structure again. Not every time the opponent wins the ball and beat a half arsed press they can run through (a non existent) midfield and simply shoot.

In general, except for the first game, we were pretty solid defensively in open play. This also reflects in the goals we conceded. While 7 goals conceded in 5 games might not be very good, the way we conceded them is certainly different:
Ipswich: (1) deflected shot from outside the box
Arsenal: (2) corners
Nottingham: (3) Corner, shot from outside the box directly at Onana who decided to step out of the way, slow motion header where nobody seemed to have an interest in clearing it
Man city: (1) Freak deflection at a Corner

Obviously, there were also some good chances where we could have conceded "regular" goals from open play, but clearly not as much as under ETH. In general, only against Ipswich it felt ETH-like. Except for that, i think for the first 30 minutes against Everton it also seemed a bit similar and for 10/15 minutes against Nottingham after conceding the second, we completely lost composure.

It's a process. I hope we are starting to see some improvement in possession in the coming weeks. I mean I like it that we are going away from playing long balls at every opportunity and try to control games more now. But sometimes we look really dire and without any idea. Possession is good, but right now it's mostly for controlling games and not conceding 500 chances each game. Next step is to get more dangerous possession.
 
It's like night and day the differences. The fact we a pattern or style is massive. It's early days but can see it already. Even with stop gap players in certain positions it's coming along. I know city are struggling etc but it was great viewing us actually able to get out. Remember a few years ago where they passed the legs off us and we were out on our feet be 50mins. Some change. Happy out.
 
It's pretty clear to see that. we basically have more control with pressing. We win the ball higher and sooner, rather than chasing the other team and getting more and more tired. Absolutely most important aspect of the game to improve for the last 13 years and if you want to go deeper into Fergies career even further, when we were not as good in Europe, where we struggled against possession based team.

It is of course very different to play Van Gaal ball in our half and stay aggressive all over the pitch and win the ball higher to achieve that. Higher quality chances will come and we can see that. where as going into a deeper block just makes maybe attack into space, but there's plenty of time and passes to fcuk up, so yeah we have scored some nice counter attacking goals, but we have created really fewer chances over years. With pressing high the spaces open as well and closer to goal. Better for decision making too, not too much time to think about and quickly execute final pass.

Gion almost 50/50 vs. Arsenal and ManCity is already encouraging.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not the first away win in the Premier League against a top six side since 2021?
 
It's very early days but I do like what I've seen so far. It's not just the results, it's the football that has improved.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Now that is a great question. I'm willing to bet that against Pep's version of City the answer is "never".
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Doing a bit of digging:

There's been a few times where we have managed 44-46% possession against them during Pep's reign. The last time we got at least 48% was a Efl cup game in 2016. They started a second string team and we went full strength.

The last time we finished a game with more possession than City was under LvG in 2015, 0-0 with 59% possession.
 
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