Gaming Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain | Use Spoiler Tags for now

Brocky said:
The new update allows you to get Quiet back, apparently :)

@Ainu - I think just suspicion will raise the alarm. If a guard sees a neutralised colleague, for example.
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Really? I've had that countless times and never had a defender arrive. Guess I must've been lucky all those times. It would've been better if it was only triggered with a full combat alert, with some decent security it's hard enough to avoid that. And when a defender arrives it becomes such an unbalanced affair it's almost pointless to continue.
 
So I finally finished this. I was first planning to go for 100% but after a while I just couldn't be bothered anymore. Too much repitition and I've got so many other stuff to play. After listening to all the cassette tapes and looking at the timeline and thinking about all of it, I don't actually dislike it as much as other people's reactions made me fear I would. It more or less makes sense, there's just still a gap in the story. It feels like there's still an entire game left to fill out that gap.

One where you play as the real Big Boss and found Outer Heaven. Of course with Kojima leaving Konami we know that will never happen now, but it sort of feels like that might've been the original plan. A lot is said about how we still don't know how Big Boss turns so evil, so that would've fit into that game as well. Although I think we need to take Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 with a big pinch of salt now, particularly how evil Big Boss (both of them) was (were) in those games. There's definitely some retconning going on there.

When you look at the big picture of the entire MG timeline, you start to wonder who the real hero of the story is. I'm inclined to say it's Ocelot, the man who gives everything, even turn himself into the main antagonist towards the end of the timeline - and actually tricking himself into believing his part through self-hypnosis so no one would see through him - to steer Solid Snake towards liberating the world of The Patriots. Which is very similar to what The Boss did during Snake Eater. All the events of MG were driven by that self-sacrifice, and it's Ocelot, her son, who is the one to ultimately carry on her will. It's a pretty bizarre story, but in a way weirdly satisfying how it's come full circle by the end.
 
Ainu said:
So I finally finished this. I was first planning to go for 100% but after a while I just couldn't be bothered anymore. Too much repitition and I've got so many other stuff to play. After listening to all the cassette tapes and looking at the timeline and thinking about all of it, I don't actually dislike it as much as other people's reactions made me fear I would. It more or less makes sense, there's just still a gap in the story. It feels like there's still an entire game left to fill out that gap.
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This is my problem with it. I want to carry on because the gameplay is so good but I find when I get out of the chopper there's feck all to do, well there's one thing I can do over and over and over again - EXTRACT enemy soldiers.

Christ I wish this game was better.
 
I still think it's a very good game, it simply overstays its welcome. There's no reason for it to have 157 side ops, of which you have somewhere around 20 times eliminate the tank unit, 20 times extract the highly skilled soldier (who usually isn't even more highly skilled than the ones around him, just an ordinary soldier really), 20 times prisoner extraction, etc etc, many of which play out roughly the same anyway. It has excellent gameplay mechanics. Varied enough to support, let's say, a 50 hour game. The thing is if you put serious effort into base building, which you really need to do if you don't want to fall behind the game's natural difficulty curve, it turns into a 100+ hour game. Games like Skyrim, Fallout or The Witcher 3 have a lot more stuff to do and a lot more places to explore to extend their staying power far beyond the 100 hour mark. MGSV simply doesn't, except for those rare completionists who also relish the challenge of the higher difficulty missions. The game overreaches and ultimately suffers for it.
 
This horse...

bsEj7Et.gif
 
I'm surprised this game wasnt the sales juggernaut many thought it would be. Brilliant game, a 9/10 for me and i'm still playing it trying to get that platinum and 100% but this story was such a let down.
 
Hamadovich86 said:
Was it? Konami said they shipped 5 million thats nothing compared to Fallout, Battlefront, Fifa, NBA 2k16, its not even on the top 10 on the UK charts now.
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Those other games are the exception, not the rule. MGS was a massive success in the eyes of Konami.
 
b82REZ said:
Those other games are the exception, not the rule. MGS was a massive success in the eyes of Konami.
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I'm not sure about that. Its development and marketing costs were huge, and yet it didn't sold as good as MGS4 did in its first week, and that was on a single platform. The combined costs have been speculated to be around $100-120m, they'd need about 5-6m units sold to break even. So they're only just starting to reach that point after 10 weeks. Compare that to The Witcher 3, which had a combined cost of $81m and reached 6m sold units after 6 weeks. I you consider all those numbers, MGSV doesn't look like a massive success.

Tbh, I'm really concerned about the sustainability of the gaming industry with costs reaching such insane heights.
 
Ainu said:
I'm not sure about that. Its development and marketing costs were huge, and yet it didn't sold as good as MGS4 did in its first week, and that was on a single platform. The combined costs have been speculated to be around $100-120m, they'd need about 5-6m units sold to break even. So they're only just starting to reach that point after 10 weeks. Compare that to The Witcher 3, which had a combined cost of $81m and reached 6m sold units after 6 weeks. I you consider all those numbers, MGSV doesn't look like a massive success.

Tbh, I'm really concerned about the sustainability of the gaming industry with costs reaching such insane heights.
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You're ignoring revenue from in game purchases.
 
b82REZ said:
Those other games are the exception, not the rule. MGS was a massive success in the eyes of Konami.
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My point was not whether or not Konami considered it a success I was talking about it being a sales juggernaut as in on the same level as the games I mentioned before which it isnt. Personally I expected it to do better especially considering it was out of the way of CoD, Fallout and Battlefront.
 
Hamadovich86 said:
My point was not whether or not Konami considered it a success I was talking about it being a sales juggernaut as in on the same level as the games I mentioned before which it isnt. Personally I expected it to do better especially considering it was out of the way of CoD, Fallout and Battlefront.
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And that's the point I'm making, it is unfair to judge most games sales against the aforementioned titles. They are anomalies and have buily up a following over years.
 
b82REZ said:
And that's the point I'm making, it is unfair to judge most games sales against the aforementioned titles. They are anomalies and have buily up a following over years.
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This is going on in circles so just to end it: MGSV did not sell crazy numbers but it did well, some people like myself expected it to do much better.
 
So, after a mid-game hiatus (I was afraid I was going to burn out on it so took some leave) I finally completed this. It's a flawed masterpiece imo. The gameplay for me is just superb, I liked the story, or more to the point where it was going (but more on that in the spoiler) and although there were some great typical Metal-Gear-Solid moments it wasn't quite up there with the other games & that's what lets the game down slightly. But before I get to moaning about other stuff with the game, I have to say I really did have a blast playing this & I think it's the fastest I've ever clocked up 100+ hours game time in a game.

That second chapter you could really tell that Konami pretty much forced Kojima to get the game out in 2015. If you believe what you read on the interwebs Kojima wanted another year to get the game fully completed but Konami came back and said the schedule is for this to be released in 2015 and that's what's going to happen regardless so get whatever you have done wrapped up for release. The falling out between them is making a lot more sense now though blame probably also lies with Kojima too for dithering/going over budget but I got the feeling that the ending was a massive 'Feck You' to Konami, in that it's not even Big Boss' story in the end. It also hammers home the sentiment that Konami don't really give a feck about their IP's or the people that work for them. This was supposed to be the grand finale and bring the Big Boss/Solid Snake/Ocelot storyline full circle and they just pushed it out the door unfinished. There's still a gap in the storyline & it leaves a bit of a bad taste especially where you see in the picture below the what real scope the game was intended to be, it really could have been one of the best games ever. If all that got done then there's no way the 'twist' at the end of game would have been handled the same.

20151110190254_zps6yenzoas.png
 
ArmandTamzarian said:
So, after a mid-game hiatus (I was afraid I was going to burn out on it so took some leave) I finally completed this. It's a flawed masterpiece imo. The gameplay for me is just superb, I liked the story, or more to the point where it was going (but more on that in the spoiler) and although there were some great typical Metal-Gear-Solid moments it wasn't quite up there with the other games & that's what lets the game down slightly. But before I get to moaning about other stuff with the game, I have to say I really did have a blast playing this & I think it's the fastest I've ever clocked up 100+ hours game time in a game.

That second chapter you could really tell that Konami pretty much forced Kojima to get the game out in 2015. If you believe what you read on the interwebs Kojima wanted another year to get the game fully completed but Konami came back and said the schedule is for this to be released in 2015 and that's what's going to happen regardless so get whatever you have done wrapped up for release. The falling out between them is making a lot more sense now though blame probably also lies with Kojima too for dithering/going over budget but I got the feeling that the ending was a massive 'Feck You' to Konami, in that it's not even Big Boss' story in the end. It also hammers home the sentiment that Konami don't really give a feck about their IP's or the people that work for them. This was supposed to be the grand finale and bring the Big Boss/Solid Snake/Ocelot storyline full circle and they just pushed it out the door unfinished. There's still a gap in the storyline & it leaves a bit of a bad taste especially where you see in the picture below the what real scope the game was intended to be, it really could have been one of the best games ever. If all that got done then there's no way the 'twist' at the end of game would have been handled the same.

20151110190254_zps6yenzoas.png
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Pretty much sums up my feelings.

Technically brilliant, if slightly repetitive towards the end game, but that's to be expected with open world games. The MGS/Kojima moments were lacking, imo, which is a huge shame and makes this instalment feel slightly soulless compared to others. The one thing they did get right was the emotional aspect. The conclusion of the Quiet storyline left me feeling like I'd had an arm cut off (no pun intended) and the cut-scene definitely tugged at the heart-strings. The scene after the Medical Platform mission was fantastic, also. I really expected a bit more from the child soldier aspect, considering the way it was built up by Kojima, but I guess that is in the 'we'll never know what could've been' box with a bunch of other stuff.
 
Brocky said:
Pretty much sums up my feelings.

Technically brilliant, if slightly repetitive towards the end game, but that's to be expected with open world games. The MGS/Kojima moments were lacking, imo, which is a huge shame and makes this instalment feel slightly soulless compared to others. The one thing they did get right was the emotional aspect. The conclusion of the Quiet storyline left me feeling like I'd had an arm cut off (no pun intended) and the cut-scene definitely tugged at the heart-strings. The scene after the Medical Platform mission was fantastic, also. I really expected a bit more from the child soldier aspect, considering the way it was built up by Kojima, but I guess that is in the 'we'll never know what could've been' box with a bunch of other stuff.
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Eh....Where does this happen? I haven't really got a conclusion to her storyline. I was skipping the cut scenes on the repeat missions though so maybe I've skipped one I shouldn't have :nervous:
 
No still got a few of them to do, I did the part where you replay the first part in the hospital but it was about 2:45am when I finished all that so I just went off to bed right after that, still got the last few replay missions to do as well
 
ArmandTamzarian said:
So, after a mid-game hiatus (I was afraid I was going to burn out on it so took some leave) I finally completed this. It's a flawed masterpiece imo. The gameplay for me is just superb, I liked the story, or more to the point where it was going (but more on that in the spoiler) and although there were some great typical Metal-Gear-Solid moments it wasn't quite up there with the other games & that's what lets the game down slightly. But before I get to moaning about other stuff with the game, I have to say I really did have a blast playing this & I think it's the fastest I've ever clocked up 100+ hours game time in a game.

That second chapter you could really tell that Konami pretty much forced Kojima to get the game out in 2015. If you believe what you read on the interwebs Kojima wanted another year to get the game fully completed but Konami came back and said the schedule is for this to be released in 2015 and that's what's going to happen regardless so get whatever you have done wrapped up for release. The falling out between them is making a lot more sense now though blame probably also lies with Kojima too for dithering/going over budget but I got the feeling that the ending was a massive 'Feck You' to Konami, in that it's not even Big Boss' story in the end. It also hammers home the sentiment that Konami don't really give a feck about their IP's or the people that work for them. This was supposed to be the grand finale and bring the Big Boss/Solid Snake/Ocelot storyline full circle and they just pushed it out the door unfinished. There's still a gap in the storyline & it leaves a bit of a bad taste especially where you see in the picture below the what real scope the game was intended to be, it really could have been one of the best games ever. If all that got done then there's no way the 'twist' at the end of game would have been handled the same.
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You may be right that it could've been the best game ever, but it doesn't look very realistic, not even with an extra year of development. I detest the current Konami and what they stand for but I can't blame them for not giving Kojima a blank cheque. At the end of the day you don't want your budget to get that much out of hand that you might not recoup the costs.

Fwiw I think Kojima should've ditched the open world idea and gone for smaller, more meaningful areas that still allow a degree of freedom in how you approach each mission. Chances are he still wouldn't have been able to cram all those locations into one game though. Overambition can be extremely harmful to the development process.
 
Having completed tomb raider, is this worth a buy, or should I go fallout 4 instead?
 
Ainu said:
You may be right that it could've been the best game ever, but it doesn't look very realistic, not even with an extra year of development. I detest the current Konami and what they stand for but I can't blame them for not giving Kojima a blank cheque. At the end of the day you don't want your budget to get that much out of hand that you might not recoup the costs.

Fwiw I think Kojima should've ditched the open world idea and gone for smaller, more meaningful areas that still allow a degree of freedom in how you approach each mission. Chances are he still wouldn't have been able to cram all those locations into one game though. Overambition can be extremely harmful to the development process.
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If they simply removed the repeat missions and instead finished up that Eli story as one mission, it would be enough to make it one of the best games ever.
 
Fallout you'll probably get more value out of, though I prefer MGS5 as a game. The gameplay is some of the best in years.
 
stu_1992 said:
Fallout you'll probably get more value out of, though I prefer MGS5 as a game. The gameplay is some of the best in years.
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I think my first 40 hours playing were just in amazement of the graphics and 60 fps. Such a beautiful game.

Gotta admit I'm really disappointed at the lack of story compared to previous games. Need my extra long movie-like cutscenes fix. Also the classic MGS soundtrack seems to have fell off.
 
Twigg said:
I think my first 40 hours playing were just in amazement of the graphics and 60 fps. Such a beautiful game.

Gotta admit I'm really disappointed at the lack of story compared to previous games. Need my extra long movie-like cutscenes fix. Also the classic MGS soundtrack seems to have fell off.
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Fallout 4 barely has a story so continue with MGS5

and try to ignore spoilers as the ending is cool
 
Big Andy said:
Having completed tomb raider, is this worth a buy, or should I go fallout 4 instead?
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Do you value story in your games? If so, then be prepared for a shitfest. If you're a fan of the franchise, which doesn't seem to be the case, or story telling in general, stop after chapter one.
 
DatIrishFella said:
Do you value story in your games? If so, then be prepared for a shitfest. If you're a fan of the franchise, which doesn't seem to be the case, or story telling in general, stop after chapter one.
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Kinda harsh towards MGS5 considering its FO4 story thats the alternative. A game with a weaker story and gameplay.

MGS5 wasn't even that bad story wise. I can't help but think that fans wanted a conclusion which they didn't get so they've shit all over the game.
 
Twigg said:
I think my first 40 hours playing were just in amazement of the graphics and 60 fps. Such a beautiful game.

Gotta admit I'm really disappointed at the lack of story compared to previous games. Need my extra long movie-like cutscenes fix. Also the classic MGS soundtrack seems to have fell off.
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On no doubt the story was lacking. Still a few cool moments, and things that hinted at something bigger. Still, I was talking about purely gameplay terms though. Soundtrack is a good point though. No Snake Eater song :(
 
Attila said:
Kinda harsh towards MGS5 considering its FO4 story thats the alternative. A game with a weaker story and gameplay.

MGS5 wasn't even that bad story wise. I can't help but think that fans wanted a conclusion which they didn't get so they've shit all over the game.
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Chapter two is irredeemable (bar the quarantine mission). The fact the majority think so says a lot. And don't get me started on the ending.
 
Attila said:
@Big Andy I played 130 hours of MGS5 (with no break) and I took a break at 60 hours of FO4. Exactly
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Knew I should have added an 'imo' somewhere.

I approached MGSV as a newbie to the series. I fecking loved the gameplay and if what I've seen around the web is right it could have been the best game ever if Konami had been willing to chuck the bucks at it (though I understand why they didn't, tbf). I've always been a Fallout fan and I don't think this is as good as either 3 or NV (not mentioning the earlier ones as different types of game) but I've been able to look past it flaws more so than I have MGS.

I'm a PC gamer though so I've got more options for modification etc which probably influences my views.

It depends on what type of game Big Andy prefers really (durr).

Ahh look lads I'm howling drunk so this is as much sense as I can muster. I'll see you all Monday after the stag. Have a smashing weekend.
 
Ainu said:
I still think it's a very good game, it simply overstays its welcome. There's no reason for it to have 157 side ops, of which you have somewhere around 20 times eliminate the tank unit, 20 times extract the highly skilled soldier (who usually isn't even more highly skilled than the ones around him, just an ordinary soldier really), 20 times prisoner extraction, etc etc, many of which play out roughly the same anyway. It has excellent gameplay mechanics. Varied enough to support, let's say, a 50 hour game. The thing is if you put serious effort into base building, which you really need to do if you don't want to fall behind the game's natural difficulty curve, it turns into a 100+ hour game. Games like Skyrim, Fallout or The Witcher 3 have a lot more stuff to do and a lot more places to explore to extend their staying power far beyond the 100 hour mark. MGSV simply doesn't, except for those rare completionists who also relish the challenge of the higher difficulty missions. The game overreaches and ultimately suffers for it.
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I disagree - Have put so many hours into this game and am at mission 23 I think - so the game has incredible length and longevity for me (and I haven't even got to the FOB stage yet). With regard to the side ops missions, I personally am happy with them having that many - would rather have more than less. I don't mind the repitition, as I like the core gameplay mechanics so much. I have played the missions trying to be a stealthy as possible, and then used the side ops to try different approaches- both loud and quiet - to take advantage of the incredible sandbox that you have to play in.

Compared to recent releases like Fallout and Just Cause 3, this feels like an extremely polished current-gen game - whereas the others seem like updated last-gen games (purely in my opinion from reading reviews etc).
 
swooshboy said:
I disagree - Have put so many hours into this game and am at mission 23 I think - so the game has incredible length and longevity for me (and I haven't even got to the FOB stage yet). With regard to the side ops missions, I personally am happy with them having that many - would rather have more than less. I don't mind the repitition, as I like the core gameplay mechanics so much. I have played the missions trying to be a stealthy as possible, and then used the side ops to try different approaches- both loud and quiet - to take advantage of the incredible sandbox that you have to play in.

Compared to recent releases like Fallout and Just Cause 3, this feels like an extremely polished current-gen game - whereas the others seem like updated last-gen games (purely in my opinion from reading reviews etc).
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Gameplay is good, I don't doubt it, but writing and variety should be much better than it is. You have a big open world with hardly anything to do, weak side ops that are all alike, poor main story that does not make you care for a long while. I got to mission 19 and I am now playing this in large intervals because I have little desire to sit down and play it for 4-5 consecutive hours which wouldn't have been the case with a well written game like Witcher 3 that I could have easily spent several days on and not get bored.

MGSV is not a bad game by any means, it's good but compared to what it could (and should) have been, it definitely feels like Konami should have done better.
 
swooshboy said:
I disagree - Have put so many hours into this game and am at mission 23 I think - so the game has incredible length and longevity for me (and I haven't even got to the FOB stage yet). With regard to the side ops missions, I personally am happy with them having that many - would rather have more than less. I don't mind the repitition, as I like the core gameplay mechanics so much. I have played the missions trying to be a stealthy as possible, and then used the side ops to try different approaches- both loud and quiet - to take advantage of the incredible sandbox that you have to play in.

Compared to recent releases like Fallout and Just Cause 3, this feels like an extremely polished current-gen game - whereas the others seem like updated last-gen games (purely in my opinion from reading reviews etc).
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I'd rather have more meaningful content than endless repetition of identical side ops in an identical context. I also disagree sandbox is incredible, as it feels completely dead outside of the guard posts and bases. There's nothing explore, it doesn't feel alive and traveling is a bitch. As I said several times, the gameplay itself is excellent and I agree with you that it feels much more like a polished current gen title than most other games, but that didn't stop me from getting bored somewhere between the 50 and 100 hour mark. I pushed on far beyond 100 hours and completed all main story missions (including 45 and the elusive 46) and several of the higher difficulty missions, plus around 90% of the 157 side ops, but so much of it felt like a chore.
 
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