Thanks for your input
MEN banned from the press conference today | Some journalists banned for running articles without approaching United for comment first
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
It's blatantly obvious in this thread.
Wow! What a load of tripe.
Something that could only be written by someone in the industry.
The English press are a bunch of rats and always have been not just to us.
I am Irish and always found it incredible how running up to major tournaments etc they would build up your national team and convince the country they are going to win it but then they would run a hate campaign against players when they fail.
when England were put out by Iceland in the euros The Suns front page was Kai Rooney crying. If any of us took photos of a random kid we would probably be arrested. They have no morals whatsoever.
I am Irish and always found it incredible how running up to major tournaments etc they would build up your national team and convince the country they are going to win it but then they would run a hate campaign against players when they fail.
when England were put out by Iceland in the euros The Suns front page was Kai Rooney crying. If any of us took photos of a random kid we would probably be arrested. They have no morals whatsoever.
They are even worse with individual players/managers. Look at some of the abuse managers have taken in the past, Turnip Taylor springs to mind.
One of the best examples is David Beckham. Look at his red card against Argentina and then his goal against Greece. There is some good journalism but there is an awful lot of sh*t rag stuff that some people are desperate to eat up. Like you say, those wanting ETH out are looking for any excuse to hammer him and will see any act or situation on the negative if they can.
I do feel a bit sorry for people who cant think for themselves and need the press to narrate them through dramas...... But then you have to listen to their absolute confidence in their bullsh*t and I feel differently....
To be honest I’d go as far as to say if you’d rather side with the press in this debate, you aren’t a proper Utd fan. Get behind the club for Christ sake.
Great to see this. Press are vermin.
Absolutely this
King Eric has the right idea about the press and how to deal with them.
Does the ban continue until further notice?
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I'm loving this. The press in this country are, by and large, scumbags. There isn't a single football writer (let's not call them journalists, they aren't) that I give a solitary shite about.
The MEN is a desperate, sensationalist shitrag and I'm amazed anyone still reads it. Look at the comments section in their articles and see the kind of person they cater to. Or mabye don't - think I picked up an STD last time I tried to go on their website.
The MEN is a desperate, sensationalist shitrag and I'm amazed anyone still reads it. Look at the comments section in their articles and see the kind of person they cater to. Or mabye don't - think I picked up an STD last time I tried to go on their website.
Oh, bloody hell. Am I allowed to have an opinion or should I automatically get behind United?
I work in the media, although not in the UK. I have a different perspective about this. I'm allowed to.
So ETH is a dictator? What a load of nonsense. He’s a manager who is at long last trying to put some long forgotten standards in place at Manchester United. We should commend his efforts on that front not call him a dictator
So they unbanned them??
It was just for that one presser unfortunately it seems
Back to pussy mode then.
They are sticking out like a sore thumb.
fecking weirdo post.
I'd like to see us ban most of the journo's permanently to be honest. There are very few that are actually credible these days and some of the arrogant pricks out there could do with being put down a peg or two.
@mikeyt
Hardly. It's the right move: it's shown all the pretenders that they can be put on a leash after all, it must have been pretty humiliating for Kaveh and friends. It means that if they fail to behave we can do it again, stop them stirring QUITE so much shit.
Unfortunately for us they can stir the pot whether they are invited to pressers or not, so a permanent ban does nothing for man Utd. If they want to stir they can stir. The threat of FUTURE bans, on the other hand, allow us to remind people that no, a lot of these media figures really do make all the shit they write up, and puts the club on the high ground if and when they do so.
Ya I agree and it has given them a fair warning. But personally, I would have liked the ban to be for couple more pressers.
So they've let the odious cnuts back then?
Just hearing it confirmed, they've allowed them back but have now banned @THE ZOL
Totally agree mate. I am from the States, and I think our media can be rough in sports, Nothing like English press.
They might just be loitering in the car park.
They would have to do something extreme to be permanently banned. While Fergie was known to ban some journalists for months or even years I think there was only one that was banned on a permanent basis and that was Daniel Taylor because he refused to write an apology letter.
And of course he refused to speak to the BBC for about eight years.
It's hilarious if what you're saying is true, but:
Who actually said this? Because the ban wasn't because of negative reporting, but because of reporting without allowing United a response, and that's what people have kept on repeating in this thread in response to anyone suggesting United is just trying to silence its critics.
And this is a constant line of comment that you saw where? Cause I haven't. Sure, people have commented on stories being vague and on it appearing that individual players are trying to promote their agendas through media leaks - but that's not the same.
It does appear, btw, by main players' interview this week that the stories of a deep dressing room rift/crisis/whatever were indeed vastly exaggerated, if not simply untrue.
Same, who said this? And if there is such a thing as a 'Ten Hag cultist', then what's the word for someone who accuses Ten Hag of being an egotistical control-freak that absus his power?
Who has been asking for no news and no explanations? Has anyone even denied that United had a troublesome start to the season and that Ten Hag is at least in part (if not completely, depending on the poster) to blame for that?
I am not sure where this choice is coming from. It's the club that banned the journalists, not Ten Hag. So what do you get when you choose the club? Still a ban of journalists, a head-in-the-sand attitude, and everything else you accused people of above?
Of course, your perspective appears to be that everything that happens at the club is Ten Hag's decision - or otherwise your 'his personal little dictatorship', and indeed most of your post, makes no sense. But where's the evidence for that? For example, was Ten Hag lying when he told the press that it was the club's decision to ban those journalists?
'Disgusting tactics' is particularly interesting after the Chelsea match. By all evidence, as much as it was nowhere near perfect, that sort of football is what Ten Hag is trying to build towards. What's disgusting about it exactly?
What mutiny was that again? The one that was on display on the pitch against Chelsea I suppose?
Over to you.
TeN hAG cUlTisTS
The presser ban was a warning. Dont feck up in future.
Claiming that Ten Hag has lost 50% of the dressing room, but not speaking to the entire dressing room or even enough to substantiate a claim close to that amount is effectively lying.
Say they've been speaking to the PR rep of Sancho and Varane, its a pretty good source, but its not proof of an entire locker room divide. If the reports had been "multiple players unhappy" then its accurate but its not newsworthy as every team has players unhappy they not playing. The papers made the jump to 50% because they knew it would get clicks.
I support the slap on the wrist here and it helps that United performed the way they did vs Chelsea because that certainly didn't look like 50% unhappiness.
Claiming that Ten Hag has lost 50% of the dressing room, but not speaking to the entire dressing room or even enough to substantiate a claim close to that amount is effectively lying.
Say they've been speaking to the PR rep of Sancho and Varane, its a pretty good source, but its not proof of an entire locker room divide. If the reports had been "multiple players unhappy" then its accurate but its not newsworthy as every team has players unhappy they not playing. The papers made the jump to 50% because they knew it would get clicks.
I support the slap on the wrist here and it helps that United performed the way they did vs Chelsea because that certainly didn't look like 50% unhappiness.
Our Hager
Who art in transition
Heh by thy name
Thy formation come
Thy rest defence will be done
On Manchester as it is in Amsterdam
Give us this day our daily turnover
And deliver us from relegation
All of our post-Moyes managers have tried to put standards in place. Even Ole tried the whole cultural reboot thing, Ralf came with the “open heart surgery” talk. LvG and Jose also came with strict standards and were quite ruthless about trying to get rid of those who they didn’t rate.
On the dictatorship point, even LvG showed some flexibility towards the end of 2015 when he responded to player criticisms about training. ETH is “my way or the high way” to an extreme extent. He is taking advantage of a vacuum of power at the club. We almost exclusively get his signings, he seems unresponsive to complaints about the training schedule and its intensity, while persisting with the same failing tactics.
Totally banishing Sancho in that manner unless a public apology was given is considerably egotistical behaviour. Why can’t he accept a private apology and draw the line there? It was him and not Sancho who initially brought the issue to the public sphere.
He boxed Sancho into a situation where a public apology would imply the manager is correct about his professional application. Why would it be in Sancho’s interests to decrease his future earning potential and career prospects like that, just to continue holding bench? What would Ten Hag have gained from a public apology apart from humiliating Sancho? Would it increase his authority in the dressing room? Clearly not, as evidence by dissent towards towards his treatment of Sancho.
In addition, the current issues with Cas and Varane, experienced players the squad needs who have won far more than anyone else including the manager, are also dictatorial. If you want to raise standards at the club do you alienate such players or do you try to use their influence to get them onboard and behind the project? Less than a year ago they were an instrumental part of a trophy winning team and now all of a sudden they are detrimental to these apparent standards he is trying to raise? Make it make sense!
The fact he’s trying to get rid of these two legends of the game implies that they are a threat to his authority. It’s deeply concerning that he is falling out with every player in our squad who has a high standing in the game. It just smells of insecure control-freak that can’t handle big personalities and prefers to surround himself with yes-men that do as their told without complaint. This might work at a smaller club like Spurs or Arsenal, but at United you need to be able to work with superstars. Or, at least, the United of yesteryear. Not this version of United where being a point behind a City side in a crisis is celebrated as some sort of achievement while Arsenal and Liverpool are fighting for the title!
Very constructive contribution
Yep. They told me I don’t need to get answers from the horse’s mouth as his cultists will do his speaking for him
Let’s approach this one by one.
1. Ten Hag cultists isn’t just redcafe posters. Also applies to those who defend him unconditionally everywhere, beit on the Caf, Twitter, Facebook… whatever. It’s those who will always make an excuse for him, no matter what.
2. You said: “It does appear… by main players' interview this week that the stories of a deep dressing room rift/crisis/whatever were indeed vastly exaggerated, if not simply untrue”. Do you honestly think someone is going to come out publicly and say its true? These leaks are players putting pressure on the club to either get Ten Hag to be more accomodating or to get rid.
3. Using the Chelsea game as an example of tactical success is hilarious. Chelsea are terrible and have been so all season, largely because they play a similar way to us. Their squad is also poor and they lack experience. That being said, our tactical weaknesses were still on show and a better team would have beaten us convincingly. Chelsea’s goal took advantage of our man-to-man press as team have done all season to attack us through the middle. Enzo moved wide, McTominay followed him, the passing line through the middle was open for Mudryk to get on the ball and set up Palmer. The man-to-man press is still being exploited. McTominay saving our skin again is also funny considering that Ten Hag tried to get rid. Likewise for Maguire. The fact we’re relying on players he tried to get rid of should be a red flag by themselves.
4. You’re suggesting that there is no mutiny due to the result against Chelsea. You can’t cite our wins as a measure of squad morale being high. We’re likely to win most of our games because we simply have better players. Even in the darkest days of the Moyes, LvG, Jose, Ole and Ralf periods we still won consistently. But what do our performances say? There are too many games whereby we have been dominated across the entire 90 minutes and even in those where we beat weaker teams, we did so unconvincingly and could have easily lost heavily.
5. I explained why I think ETH is a dictator/egotistical control freak in my response to GB.
6. I remain Ten Hag OUT until convinced otherwise. For this, I need to see a consistent improvement in performances. I would be happy for him to turn this around and even all the cultists to come laugh in my face and tell me “I told you so!”. I just want the best for United and my view is that Ten Hag is a detriment to our ambitions.
7. I understand that it is the club’s duty to protect Ten Hag. Can’t really complain about the banning of the journalists, even if it was ordered by Ten Hag himself. That being said, the circumstances that led to it, namely the grievances of the dressing room, are a red flag and they were totally avoidable had Ten Hag been more competent.
I've mentioned before how you have an incredible ability to twist and turn arguments to suit your agenda. That doesn't make them right though - it just makes your posts on the topics of Sancho and Ten Hag incredibly frustrating. For example:
Given the public nature of his statement, it therefore makes sense to demand that Sancho apologize in public for that post. It doesn't mean that he has to apologize for not working hard enough; Ten Hag anyway didn't say that, because 'performance' is a broad term. But at which football club do you think Sancho would have been able to get away with this sort of public statement without any public apology or retraction? What specifically is egotistical from Ten Hag in not accepting this sort of clearly unacceptable public statement?
And you can the use of McTominay and Maguire whatever you like, but their use actually goes against your characterization of Ten Hag. As an egotistical dictator, isn't he supposed to freeze them out or otherwise mistreat them, as unwanted players that failed to leave? Instead, they are having key roles now, and Ten Hag is actually adapting his tactics to their presence on the pitch. You turning this into a negative on Ten Hag is red flag by itself.
You don't know any of those for certain about Ten Hag. You without fail take for granted any rumours or news that paint a negative picture of Ten Hag, and dismiss whatever is positive about Ten Hag. It's confirmation bias, not good reasoning.
Ten Hag only said that Sancho wasn't selected based on 'performance in training'. That's a pretty mild comment. It was Sancho was escalated that into a major row through his Twitter post, where he accused the manager of lying. (I know, it was more vague, as he only wrote 'I will not allow people saying things that [are] completely untrue.' But if he didn't refer to Ten Hag there, that could have been cleared up very easily and no row would have ensued.) I don't know either what Sancho thought to achieve with that and how it was supposed to advance his career, but it is what it is, he did post it.
Given the public nature of his statement, it therefore makes sense to demand that Sancho apologize in public for that post. It doesn't mean that he has to apologize for not working hard enough; Ten Hag anyway didn't say that, because 'performance' is a broad term. But at which football club do you think Sancho would have been able to get away with this sort of public statement without any public apology or retraction? What specifically is egotistical from Ten Hag in not accepting this sort of clearly unacceptable public statement?
This is a great example of you jumping on rumours in the way that's most negative for Ten Hag. Apart from your logical leaps, where is the actual evidence that he considers Varane and Casemiro detrimental to standards or a threat to his authority? Why can't they just be expensive players that are becoming surplus to requirements and are therefore allowed to leave in January or this summer if they want? Your interpretation just smells of confirmation bias of someone you have develop a deep-seated dislike for.
This is another example of your theory basically being unbeatable: any evidence to the contrary you simply dismiss as being unreliable. If you get to that point, you've gotten into the realm of pseudo-science and conspiracy theories - it's a key characteristic.
I didn't say the tactic worked perfectly, I just said that it's odd to speak of 'disgusting tactics' right after the game. 'Disgusting tactics' I associate with parking five defensive busses along the box, or deliberately kicking the shit out of opposition. An imperfect attacking tactic that provides plenty of entertainment may not be genius, but it's hardly 'disgusting'.
And you can the use of McTominay and Maguire whatever you like, but their use actually goes against your characterization of Ten Hag. As an egotistical dictator, isn't he supposed to freeze them out or otherwise mistreat them, as unwanted players that failed to leave? Instead, they are having key roles now, and Ten Hag is actually adapting his tactics to their presence on the pitch. You turning this into a negative on Ten Hag is red flag by itself.
Yes, but the Chelsea result was a team win that resulted from everyone working their socks off in support of the tactic adopted. There have been plenty of instances, also this season, that moments of individual brilliance one the club games; but not the Chelsea match. I'm not saying this one match is conclusive evidence of squad support for Ten Hag (or at least of the starting 11), but it's about as reliable as those rumours about unrest. But as usual, your confirmation bias makes you reject one and accept the other - and then draw harsh conclusions on the basis of that.
That's again assuming those reports of dressing room unrest are true - as discussed above.
Is this true though? Did he really demand a public apology?
An apology for Sancho's Tweet?
All of our post-Moyes managers have tried to put standards in place. Even Ole tried the whole cultural reboot thing, Ralf came with the “open heart surgery” talk. LvG and Jose also came with strict standards and were quite ruthless about trying to get rid of those who they didn’t rate.
On the dictatorship point, even LvG showed some flexibility towards the end of 2015 when he responded to player criticisms about training. ETH is “my way or the high way” to an extreme extent. He is taking advantage of a vacuum of power at the club. We almost exclusively get his signings, he seems unresponsive to complaints about the training schedule and its intensity, while persisting with the same failing tactics.
Totally banishing Sancho in that manner unless a public apology was given is considerably egotistical behaviour. Why can’t he accept a private apology and draw the line there? It was him and not Sancho who initially brought the issue to the public sphere.
He boxed Sancho into a situation where a public apology would imply the manager is correct about his professional application. Why would it be in Sancho’s interests to decrease his future earning potential and career prospects like that, just to continue holding bench? What would Ten Hag have gained from a public apology apart from humiliating Sancho? Would it increase his authority in the dressing room? Clearly not, as evidence by dissent towards towards his treatment of Sancho.
In addition, the current issues with Cas and Varane, experienced players the squad needs who have won far more than anyone else including the manager, are also dictatorial. If you want to raise standards at the club do you alienate such players or do you try to use their influence to get them onboard and behind the project? Less than a year ago they were an instrumental part of a trophy winning team and now all of a sudden they are detrimental to these apparent standards he is trying to raise? Make it make sense!
The fact he’s trying to get rid of these two legends of the game implies that they are a threat to his authority. It’s deeply concerning that he is falling out with every player in our squad who has a high standing in the game. It just smells of insecure control-freak that can’t handle big personalities and prefers to surround himself with yes-men that do as their told without complaint. This might work at a smaller club like Spurs or Arsenal, but at United you need to be able to work with superstars. Or, at least, the United of yesteryear. Not this version of United where being a point behind a City side in a crisis is celebrated as some sort of achievement while Arsenal and Liverpool are fighting for the title!
Very constructive contribution
Yep. They told me I don’t need to get answers from the horse’s mouth as his cultists will do his speaking for him
Let’s approach this one by one.
1. Ten Hag cultists isn’t just redcafe posters. Also applies to those who defend him unconditionally everywhere, beit on the Caf, Twitter, Facebook… whatever. It’s those who will always make an excuse for him, no matter what.
2. You said: “It does appear… by main players' interview this week that the stories of a deep dressing room rift/crisis/whatever were indeed vastly exaggerated, if not simply untrue”. Do you honestly think someone is going to come out publicly and say its true? These leaks are players putting pressure on the club to either get Ten Hag to be more accomodating or to get rid.
3. Using the Chelsea game as an example of tactical success is hilarious. Chelsea are terrible and have been so all season, largely because they play a similar way to us. Their squad is also poor and they lack experience. That being said, our tactical weaknesses were still on show and a better team would have beaten us convincingly. Chelsea’s goal took advantage of our man-to-man press as team have done all season to attack us through the middle. Enzo moved wide, McTominay followed him, the passing line through the middle was open for Mudryk to get on the ball and set up Palmer. The man-to-man press is still being exploited. McTominay saving our skin again is also funny considering that Ten Hag tried to get rid. Likewise for Maguire. The fact we’re relying on players he tried to get rid of should be a red flag by themselves.
4. You’re suggesting that there is no mutiny due to the result against Chelsea. You can’t cite our wins as a measure of squad morale being high. We’re likely to win most of our games because we simply have better players. Even in the darkest days of the Moyes, LvG, Jose, Ole and Ralf periods we still won consistently. But what do our performances say? There are too many games whereby we have been dominated across the entire 90 minutes and even in those where we beat weaker teams, we did so unconvincingly and could have easily lost heavily.
5. I explained why I think ETH is a dictator/egotistical control freak in my response to GB.
6. I remain Ten Hag OUT until convinced otherwise. For this, I need to see a consistent improvement in performances. I would be happy for him to turn this around and even all the cultists to come laugh in my face and tell me “I told you so!”. I just want the best for United and my view is that Ten Hag is a detriment to our ambitions.
7. I understand that it is the club’s duty to protect Ten Hag. Can’t really complain about the banning of the journalists, even if it was ordered by Ten Hag himself. That being said, the circumstances that led to it, namely the grievances of the dressing room, are a red flag and they were totally avoidable had Ten Hag been more competent.
Nah
Your wrong and to many wordsAll of our post-Moyes managers have tried to put standards in place. Even Ole tried the whole cultural reboot thing, Ralf came with the “open heart surgery” talk. LvG and Jose also came with strict standards and were quite ruthless about trying to get rid of those who they didn’t rate.
On the dictatorship point, even LvG showed some flexibility towards the end of 2015 when he responded to player criticisms about training. ETH is “my way or the high way” to an extreme extent. He is taking advantage of a vacuum of power at the club. We almost exclusively get his signings, he seems unresponsive to complaints about the training schedule and its intensity, while persisting with the same failing tactics.
Totally banishing Sancho in that manner unless a public apology was given is considerably egotistical behaviour. Why can’t he accept a private apology and draw the line there? It was him and not Sancho who initially brought the issue to the public sphere.
He boxed Sancho into a situation where a public apology would imply the manager is correct about his professional application. Why would it be in Sancho’s interests to decrease his future earning potential and career prospects like that, just to continue holding bench? What would Ten Hag have gained from a public apology apart from humiliating Sancho? Would it increase his authority in the dressing room? Clearly not, as evidence by dissent towards towards his treatment of Sancho.
In addition, the current issues with Cas and Varane, experienced players the squad needs who have won far more than anyone else including the manager, are also dictatorial. If you want to raise standards at the club do you alienate such players or do you try to use their influence to get them onboard and behind the project? Less than a year ago they were an instrumental part of a trophy winning team and now all of a sudden they are detrimental to these apparent standards he is trying to raise? Make it make sense!
The fact he’s trying to get rid of these two legends of the game implies that they are a threat to his authority. It’s deeply concerning that he is falling out with every player in our squad who has a high standing in the game. It just smells of insecure control-freak that can’t handle big personalities and prefers to surround himself with yes-men that do as their told without complaint. This might work at a smaller club like Spurs or Arsenal, but at United you need to be able to work with superstars. Or, at least, the United of yesteryear. Not this version of United where being a point behind a City side in a crisis is celebrated as some sort of achievement while Arsenal and Liverpool are fighting for the title!
Very constructive contribution
Yep. They told me I don’t need to get answers from the horse’s mouth as his cultists will do his speaking for him
Let’s approach this one by one.
1. Ten Hag cultists isn’t just redcafe posters. Also applies to those who defend him unconditionally everywhere, beit on the Caf, Twitter, Facebook… whatever. It’s those who will always make an excuse for him, no matter what.
2. You said: “It does appear… by main players' interview this week that the stories of a deep dressing room rift/crisis/whatever were indeed vastly exaggerated, if not simply untrue”. Do you honestly think someone is going to come out publicly and say its true? These leaks are players putting pressure on the club to either get Ten Hag to be more accomodating or to get rid.
3. Using the Chelsea game as an example of tactical success is hilarious. Chelsea are terrible and have been so all season, largely because they play a similar way to us. Their squad is also poor and they lack experience. That being said, our tactical weaknesses were still on show and a better team would have beaten us convincingly. Chelsea’s goal took advantage of our man-to-man press as team have done all season to attack us through the middle. Enzo moved wide, McTominay followed him, the passing line through the middle was open for Mudryk to get on the ball and set up Palmer. The man-to-man press is still being exploited. McTominay saving our skin again is also funny considering that Ten Hag tried to get rid. Likewise for Maguire. The fact we’re relying on players he tried to get rid of should be a red flag by themselves.
4. You’re suggesting that there is no mutiny due to the result against Chelsea. You can’t cite our wins as a measure of squad morale being high. We’re likely to win most of our games because we simply have better players. Even in the darkest days of the Moyes, LvG, Jose, Ole and Ralf periods we still won consistently. But what do our performances say? There are too many games whereby we have been dominated across the entire 90 minutes and even in those where we beat weaker teams, we did so unconvincingly and could have easily lost heavily.
5. I explained why I think ETH is a dictator/egotistical control freak in my response to GB.
6. I remain Ten Hag OUT until convinced otherwise. For this, I need to see a consistent improvement in performances. I would be happy for him to turn this around and even all the cultists to come laugh in my face and tell me “I told you so!”. I just want the best for United and my view is that Ten Hag is a detriment to our ambitions.
7. I understand that it is the club’s duty to protect Ten Hag. Can’t really complain about the banning of the journalists, even if it was ordered by Ten Hag himself. That being said, the circumstances that led to it, namely the grievances of the dressing room, are a red flag and they were totally avoidable had Ten Hag been more competent.
From what I read (somewhere in the Sancho thread when I was browsing it today), the requirement is a face-to-face apology to Ten Hag, and that the club can then say publicly that this happened.
Actually, it was a quote in one of @the zog's own posts: “Ten Hag wanted an apology to his face, which the club would then communicate publicly as a means of contextualising Sancho’s return to the squad. Sancho pushed back against this double acknowledgment of wrongdoing.” (Source: https://theathletic.com/4915182/2023/10/26/jadon-sancho-manchester-united-apology-row/?amp=1.)
So if this is accurate, Sancho is not being asked to make any sort of public statement.