Football move in cycles. The Catenaccio era gave way to total football spearheaded by Sacchi, LVG and SAF, who then gave way to tika taka football by Pep and its variations. Its ironic that Big Sam thinks that way considering that most defensive managers in football (Mou, Conte, Allegri) are struggling.
Megatherium Sam | Leaves West Brom in the Championship
- Thread starter R.N7
- Start date
Allardyce is referring to the premier league or at least recent history, the evidence is there to counter his point that during the time of the PL no English manager has ever come close, or done well enough to be given one of top jobs, bar maybe Eddie Howe. I understand your references to Clough and Paisley and I think its a good point, but I think football moves in cycles and for whatever reason English managers are lagging behind.
In the last 30 years I can't think of one English manager who has been good enough to win major honours or even on that trajectory to do so. Maybe its because Fergie, Wenger, Jose and Pepe were just too good, and happened to not be English, transforming the game to such an extent that others couldn't keep up?
Bet there’d be a demand for extra physio’s/medical treatment staff with that scenario.
Would they get a special dispensation if there isn’t enough home grown accredited types around?
Maybe (just maybe) he’s a sad little Englander.
He’s right about the league becoming duller to watch but that’s been the case for awhile. A lot of the games are just tumescent.
If he is, he is then part of a growing international community - sad little French, sad little Germans, sad little Americans among others - seems to be the popular choice these days.
Last edited:
Venables and Hoddle were innovative and both were perhaps bypassed on more than the odd occasion due to non footballing reasons.
Managers have become fashion accessories to owners and there is little doubt in my opinion that a lot of the decision makers have gone with foreign coaches thinking they are getting this futuristic brand of football but for every success story there is countless failures.
For every Wagner at Huddersfield there's those dopes that Barnsley and Sheff We'd hired recently. On what basis are owners appointing these managers that can barely utter a word of the English language ? it's purely fanciful thinking and following a trend that on the whole is not working.
Steve mcclaren won the Dutch league
Has his son blown out birthday candles and wished his dad can only tell the truth or something?
The last top class English manager was probably Sir Bobby Robson. Clearly we’ve not been producing great managers for a long time now. There’s probably a multitude of reasons for that which I won’t bother with here.
I think Sam is a decent manager who actually had a lot of forward thinking ideas in terms of sports science and data usage, but he’s never been a top level coach and never will be.
He talks a hell of a lot of nonsense that’s for sure!
I think Sam is a decent manager who actually had a lot of forward thinking ideas in terms of sports science and data usage, but he’s never been a top level coach and never will be.
He talks a hell of a lot of nonsense that’s for sure!
Absolute bullshit. How many people called Burnley lucky the day they beat Spurs?
I’m amazed he can walk with that massive chip he’s carrying on his shoulder.
The fact that Big Sam is probably the best English manager says it all.
Southgate?
Fixed.
If we're going to cite Pep, then, it's probably only right to add in the guy who he tried to emulate above all.
I find it fun too watch. Well not us under Moyes, LVG and Mourinho, but us at the moment no doubt. Arsenal and Spurs are often fun too watch. Chelsea can be a bit dull I agree and I can't enjoy City and Liverpool to dominate the league like they do. Although to watch City can be a fun to see how good they are as a team, but of course not fun that they win.
Hard to say how good he actually is. How many teams has England beaten where they weren't big favourites? Considering the teams they faced in the World Cup, it would have been a huge failure not to get as far as they did. From memory there were a couple of good results in the qualifying, but that's about it.
Football went through a dramatic change in the 90's when foreign players flooded the Premier League. Technical players used to playing in Europe required the requisite level of coaches in order to facilitate them best in a system that made them the focus of the attacks. It's no coincidence that English managers have not arisen to win in Europe, or indeed, the Premier League, since tactically speaking they were very much behind their European counterparts in terms of adapting to the natural evolution of the game.
I distinctly remember majority English coaches still trying to play classic Brexit 4-4-2 even into the 00's, long after European coaches had introduced various fluid formations and systems into our game. How is it the foreign manager's fault that young English coaches at that time were still thinking about football in terms of 1980's innovations?
For all the stick Glenn Hoddle got, at least he had ideas about progressing the game. His wing-back formation looks way ahead of its time for an English coach, especially in light of its regular usage now in the modern game, doesn't it?
I distinctly remember majority English coaches still trying to play classic Brexit 4-4-2 even into the 00's, long after European coaches had introduced various fluid formations and systems into our game. How is it the foreign manager's fault that young English coaches at that time were still thinking about football in terms of 1980's innovations?
For all the stick Glenn Hoddle got, at least he had ideas about progressing the game. His wing-back formation looks way ahead of its time for an English coach, especially in light of its regular usage now in the modern game, doesn't it?
Laughable, thinly veiled xenophobic garbage from Allardyce.
Give me a Nuno Santo, a Pochettino or a Ranieri over an Allardyce, a Howe or a Warnock any day of the week.
English managers get fecking over-hyped, not the other way 'round.
Imagine if Raneiri was English - he wouldn't have been sacked after winning the PL with Foxes, and his next job would not have been at Fulham.
Or imagine if Santo was a new English coach, and had done what he's done this season with Wolves - he'd be being talked about as the new Utd / Chelsea / Arse boss etc.
Benitez going from Real Madrid to fecking Newcastle, and then doing the job he's done on that 'budget'.
Foreign managers also get sacked way more quickly, with way less attention from the press.
Utter, utter rubbish from Allardyce.
Obviously the lure of divisive politics is that they serve as a lovely excuse for why you're failing - 'the West Indians / Pakistanis / Polish are taking your jobs' etc.
But to see it, in this day and age, from people who've fecking enjoyed a cushy number with the 'old boys network' - earning millions for years, is just a new level of pathetic.
Piss off Allardyce. If you're a better coach prove it, or shut up.
Give me a Nuno Santo, a Pochettino or a Ranieri over an Allardyce, a Howe or a Warnock any day of the week.
English managers get fecking over-hyped, not the other way 'round.
Imagine if Raneiri was English - he wouldn't have been sacked after winning the PL with Foxes, and his next job would not have been at Fulham.
Or imagine if Santo was a new English coach, and had done what he's done this season with Wolves - he'd be being talked about as the new Utd / Chelsea / Arse boss etc.
Benitez going from Real Madrid to fecking Newcastle, and then doing the job he's done on that 'budget'.
Foreign managers also get sacked way more quickly, with way less attention from the press.
Utter, utter rubbish from Allardyce.
Obviously the lure of divisive politics is that they serve as a lovely excuse for why you're failing - 'the West Indians / Pakistanis / Polish are taking your jobs' etc.
But to see it, in this day and age, from people who've fecking enjoyed a cushy number with the 'old boys network' - earning millions for years, is just a new level of pathetic.
Piss off Allardyce. If you're a better coach prove it, or shut up.
I do think English football needs a better balance. Since the inception of the PL, we have had some top-notch overseas coaches and players gracing the game as well as English ones. You'd think there would be free exchange of information and ideas between them and that English coaches would learn and progress. But that doesn't seem to have happened. How can that be explained?
How many of our coaches go abroad?
Amazed he hasn't tried to make out that Gareth Southgate isn't really English.
Think he is still very very bitter about losing the England job.
I think the very simple reason is this - that a lot of British coaches and players don't go abroad. They are not willing to pick up foreign languages and have not been in an environment where they can be exposed to different type of footballing culture or thinking. Even those who went abroad and were relatively successful - take Bale for example, he has been in Spain for 6 years and he's still not fluent in one of the most commonly spoken languages around the world.
Is it a wonder that the non-Brit coaches and players that move around, infuse in different footballing culture and thinking, are able to refine their knowledge of how the game could be played? I truly think that managers/coaches like SAF is the exception rather than the norm.
If we had a PL full of coaches like Sam Allardyce, I think I would stop watching. The foreign coaches have brought amazing changes to how our football is played.
Hodgson won a few titles outside of England too,while also getting Fulham to a EL final.Amazing achievement.
Allardyce is just bitter that he's (1) currently out of work and (2) clubs dont want to hire someone who produces the sight-for-sore-eyes football his teams usually produce unless they're battling for PL survival.Basically, he's hired because clubs get desperate.
And dont get me started on the tremendous job Howe has done at my local club Bournemouth. Revolutionised the club and rightly gets credit because the football is generally entertaining.
Going abroad to manage is a great idea, but my point is a lot don't have to as the foreign football culture has come to them. Maybe it's the English dislike of learning anything foreign that's the problem.
Wouldn't watch the EPL if Allardyce had his way. If I did I'd probably prefer rugby anyway. Never thought this kick and rush, flying tackles and shoot from every possible angle style was entertaining, just stupid. The English league moved on from that and it's no coincidence it became competitive again afterwards.
Saying this as someone who is not English: what's up with the moaning and constant self-deprecation? Do some of you have no sense of pride? As an outsider, it's quite incredible to witness.
The man has a point. Perhaps not in terms of end results, but why would you not want more English managers and an English style of football in England.
Personally, I'd prefer it to be British rather than purely English but you can't say he's entirely wrong about perception.
The man has a point. Perhaps not in terms of end results, but why would you not want more English managers and an English style of football in England.
Personally, I'd prefer it to be British rather than purely English but you can't say he's entirely wrong about perception.
Yeah you're right Sam, all teams should go back to a propah Ingurlish four four facking two with long balls and the much vaunted 'pashun and desiah'..
English coaches have been mediocre for years, there are some young promising ones like Howe but for the most part they aren't up to scratch.
English coaches have been mediocre for years, there are some young promising ones like Howe but for the most part they aren't up to scratch.
There are currently 7 teams (I think) managed by Englishmen in the PL, and they are all placed between 12th and 20th...
I'm English, and I'm not against English managers, I'm just for the best person getting the role. That's what's best for football, and, I believe what's best for English football and English players as well.
Yep. Don't want that foreign muck!
Allardyce is just a bitter old piece of gammon. And he got plenty of credit for what he did in football from his off field fitness stuff to his giant killings and saving teams from relegation. He managed Newcastle and England FFS, hardly bereft of opportunities.
In what way? What has he achieved as a manager of 7 different PL clubs?
Moaning and self-deprecation are hallmarks of British pride.
Perhaps dislike was the wrong word. Mistrust perhaps. It wasn't that long ago that Sam was saying he'd be a good fit for United.
He doesn't exactly have much opposition to be fair. He's generally got the results that his teams have needed, and it's 'only' his style of play that sees him then sacked by teams who think they should be better (and generally end up getting worse instead). There's a couple of younger managers coming through that might take that step up though.
That is next level idiocy on display right there.
To me he's like Moyes. Did a good job at a team he stayed at for a long time but since then done a bad job playing bad football.