Mctominay for Mainoo at HT

Walters_19_MuFc said:
First of all, I don't think McTominay is a holding midfielder, nor should he play there. However, let's not go on like we weren't conceding those kind of chances with Mainoo on the pitch. Let's go back to Villa, for example, McGinn was free in the area and had it not been for Evans, they'd have gone 3-2 up.

As I said in another thread, the kind of goals we conceded yesterday, i.e from a cut back, are goals we've been conceding for a long time now, regardless of who is playing there. Its a structural problem! If people can't see that, then they're being ignorant.

If ten Hag wanted to lessen the amount of times this happens, then he needs to go with a double 6 pivot with a number 10. That way, if/when it breaks down in midfield, we have 2 holding midfielders screening the defence. City do it with Rodri and Kovacic, Villa with Luiz and Kamara, etc. Heck, Ole used to do it with Fred and McTominay. Whilst they weren't great in the creative department, we were a lot harder to beat, especially in the so called "tougher" games.

Unfortunately, if ten Hag continues to play the way he's playing, and purposely ignore how vulnerable we are to counters, then he'll lose his job. As a manager, he needs to identify this flaw and change it. Plus, we look much better in a 4231 anyway.
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This is my beef eith ETH. Ive been against sacking any of our managers, (with the only exception being LVG as the football was so boring) but Ten Hag is digging his own grave by being so un-adaptable.
We played a double pivot against Liverpool and had a good team performance and a hard earned point. Anfield is a tough place for us to go even when we have been flying. Why not play a double pivot and get a string of 1-0 wins going then when your injury troubles have subsided, become a bit more expansive again?
The pressure has definitely got to him and i do have a lot of sympathy. Everything surrounded with the club is negative and he is trying to bat away the criticisms, when he is honest about players performances he has ended up in awful media circus situations with CR & JS or some idiot player leaks that they have to do running in training. The fella cant win and i think 99% of managers would of had a serious outburst with the media or a player by now.

Im backing him but he needs to take less risks. Mainoo coming off was a risk that didn't need to be taken last night, i think he is actually concious about McTominay's influence at the club (maybe he is a leak) same with Erickson because if anyone should of been hooked it was him
 
Ish said:
The only reasonable way to have brough McT on, IMO, should have been to sub off Antony and change tactics (McT up top? Bruno out wide - which I don’t like btw but Antony was stinking up the place anyway) or to sub off Eriksen. Never a DM or for Mainoo - especially not when he’s partners are Eriksen and Bruno. Come on man. It’s basically fecking so obvious playing a midfield of McT Eriksen is suicide. Still fuming
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If he he had to bring McT, he should have moved Rashford to the left, Garnacho to the right, Antony off, and playing McT as a striker. He is shit as a striker but so is Rashford and McT is an absolute disaster in midfield so if Ten Hag was hoping McT would give him goals at least play him near the box, while Hojlund is mysteriously ill

McT should never play in midfield. He is a disaster in defense (both of the goals they scored was McT not picking up a runner in the midfield) and he is a disaster in attack because he cannot pass. All he can do is - run into an oppo box and shoot. Even that apparently once in 9 matches but anyway - that is not being a midfielder at top level
 
NewGlory said:
If he he had to bring McT, he should have moved Rashford to the left, Garnacho to the right, Antony off, and playing McT as a striker. He is shit as a striker but so is Rashford and McT is an absolute disaster in midfield so if Ten Hag was hoping McT would give him goals at least play him near the box, while Hojlund is mysteriously ill
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Agreed, this would have been only acceptable way to put McTominay on.

What annoys me most is that ETH is blind, he thinks the second half was better so probably thinks he made the right change. I'm sick of seeing McTominay or Antony on the team sheet.
 
NewGlory said:
If he he had to bring McT, he should have moved Rashford to the left, Garnacho to the right, Antony off, and playing McT as a striker. He is shit as a striker but so is Rashford and McT is an absolute disaster in midfield so if Ten Hag was hoping McT would give him goals at least play him near the box, while Hojlund is mysteriously ill

McT should never play in midfield. He is a disaster in defense (both of the goals they scored was McT not picking up a runner in the midfield) and he is a disaster in attack because he cannot pass. All he can do is - run into an oppo box and shoot. Even that apparently once in 9 matches but anyway - that is not being a midfielder at top level
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First goal, maybe, but really not sure where people are coming from with the second goal, he has to engage Yates when he picks up the ball, closest player, should he just ignore him and default to the middle of the pitch, allow a 2 v 1 wide when there are 3 other Utd players in that middle area?

Entirely blaming him for that "because it is his area" is a simplistic reading of how that developed IMO.
 
ETH will die on the Antony/Mctominay hill. How many cut back do we need to concede before anyone in the coaching department see how much of a liability Eriksen and Mctominay are? The first half was boring and hell, but we weren't getting cut open through the middle until he made that Mctominay sub and the floodgates opened. When Scott/Eriksen are on the pitch we look like we playing 4-0-6 formation.
 
Bobski said:
First goal, maybe, but really not sure where people are coming from with the second goal, he has to engage Yates when he picks up the ball, closest player, should he just ignore him and default to the middle of the pitch, allow a 2 v 1 wide when there are 3 other Utd players in that middle area?

Entirely blaming him for that "because it is his area" is a simplistic reading of how that developed IMO.
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Dont agree, the box was packed so even with Yates on the ball then a cross into the box should be dealt with, Forests best player MGW is left in miles of space on the edge of the box is the danger, let the LB deal with Yates and one of the defenders to come out, McT doesnt have the right decision making skills in situations like that and it happens far too often with him on the pitch. Not his fault because hes not a CDM but still should be tracking the man/zone hes meant to be in control off.
 
Think he did it because we are shite against physical low block sides and McTominay has form for unlocking Brentford and Sheffield when we really needed something.

That said, he shouldn't have done it. McTominay sucks.
 
AbusementPark said:
Dont agree, the box was packed so even with Yates on the ball then a cross into the box should be dealt with, Forests best player MGW is left in miles of space on the edge of the box is the danger, let the LB deal with Yates and one of the defenders to come out, McT doesnt have the right decision making skills in situations like that and it happens far too often with him on the pitch. Not his fault because hes not a CDM but still should be tracking the man/zone hes meant to be in control off.
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Dalot would be left 2 v 1 against Elanga and Yates if McT runs away from the ball carrier. AWB is behind Gibbs White on the break and just runs away from him when he can see the dangerous space he is running into, Evans or Varane could also easily come out and react instead of dropping so deep, to put it all on McT doesn't make sense to me. If he does drop middle onto Gibbs-White and they score from the 2 v 1 he would get the blame for that as well.

There is a lack of communication as a group in that break.
 
Doracle said:
We had Rashford upfront in this match, so switching Garnacho right and moving Rashford left was an option. No need to move Bruno to the wing if we took Antony off and brought Scott on as an emergency forward.
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NewGlory said:
If he he had to bring McT, he should have moved Rashford to the left, Garnacho to the right, Antony off, and playing McT as a striker. He is shit as a striker but so is Rashford and McT is an absolute disaster in midfield so if Ten Hag was hoping McT would give him goals at least play him near the box, while Hojlund is mysteriously ill

McT should never play in midfield. He is a disaster in defense (both of the goals they scored was McT not picking up a runner in the midfield) and he is a disaster in attack because he cannot pass. All he can do is - run into an oppo box and shoot. Even that apparently once in 9 matches but anyway - that is not being a midfielder at top level
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Yeah, that’s what I said in my post - should have been Antony off and McT up top with Rashford moving left and Garnacho right. That was the obvious tactical switch at HT which would have made sense and probably the best way to bring McT on.
 
Mctom coming on isn't an issue. The way he brought him on is utter stupidity. Last season ETH got his subs right, this year he's lost the plot.
 
A lot has been made of this. I don't necessarily disagree with bringing McTominay on. However, I think the wrong player was taken off.

The problem was McTominay came on and tried to play box to box rather than sit in front of the defence, which is what Mainoo was doing. If McTominay wants to do that, fine as he's been doing it well and getting goals. But then one of Eriksen/Fernandes needs to drop (and both aren't clearly suited to sitting alone in front of the defence).

So ETH bringing on McTominay wasn't a problem for me, one of Eriksen or Fernandes had to come off.
 
Yanited__ said:
A lot has been made of this. I don't necessarily disagree with bringing McTominay on. However, I think the wrong player was taken off.

The problem was McTominay came on and tried to play box to box rather than sit in front of the defence, which is what Mainoo was doing. If McTominay wants to do that, fine as he's been doing it well and getting goals. But then one of Eriksen/Fernandes needs to drop (and both aren't clearly suited to sitting alone in front of the defence).

So ETH bringing on McTominay wasn't a problem for me, one of Eriksen or Fernandes had to come off.
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Didn't ETH say that Mainoo had to be taken off due to him not being able to play 3 games in such close proximity?
 
This was baffling. What’s even more baffling is that ETH said he didn’t regret it. Mate you lost the game and that could have played a part in it.
 
McTominay coming on wasn't an issue. That seems to be the train of thought.

Unfortunately, McTominay playing for Manchester United is an issue.
 
DJ_21 said:
This was baffling. What’s even more baffling is that ETH said he didn’t regret it. Mate you lost the game and that could have played a part in it.
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Hes under pressure and the media love an anti United story.

Hed be a bit of a bigger mug if he came out and admitted he fecked it.
 
I think Ten Hag doesn’t blame the goals on McT but on poor defending from the whole team. McT was brought on to help us attack, which worked up to a point.

You can always get caught out by a counter, but we did not need to concede as there were plenty players back to deal with both situations.
 
NLunited said:
I think Ten Hag doesn’t blame the goals on McT but on poor defending from the whole team. McT was brought on to help us attack, which worked up to a point.

You can always get caught out by a counter, but we did not need to concede as there were plenty players back to deal with both situations.
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No one on pitch had the skill set nor know how to plug that hole Forrest exploited. No amount of communication could change that.
 
We were awful on the first half, tepid and poor on the ball.

A change had to be made as the midfield obviously wasn't working.

Options were limited on the bench, and Eriksen was doing better on the ball then Mainoo, so the change was obvious and had to be made.
Not sure much else needs to be said about it really.
 
Champ said:
We were awful on the first half, tepid and poor on the ball.

A change had to be made as the midfield obviously wasn't working.

Options were limited on the bench, and Eriksen was doing better on the ball then Mainoo, so the change was obvious and had to be made.
Not sure much else needs to be said about it really.
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Pretty much this. Mainoo had a really quiet half and watching the game again, he played much more conservatively than in previous games, choosing the sideways pass instead of through the lines. Was it physical fatigue or burden of expectation? It's just unfortunate that he wasn't replaced by a proper midfielder like Hannibal or Gore.
 
VP89 said:
Hes under pressure and the media love an anti United story.

Hed be a bit of a bigger mug if he came out and admitted he fecked it.
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Honesty is the best policy. He could have said I could have done things differently. Alls he’s doing by saying he doesn’t regret it is giving him self more haters and telling the world that he doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.
 
VP89 said:
I couldn't think of a worse way to handle the British press there. They'd eat on any weakness
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And lieing will make him look clueless and show the world he doesn’t know what he’s doing. I’ve seen managers say i could have done things differently etc, but when a manager says he doesn’t regret a decision and we end up losing and that decision might of played a part in that then he’s gonna get eaten alive by fans. Even pundits like Neville said it was a mistake.
 
DJ_21 said:
And lieing will make him look clueless and show the world he doesn’t know what he’s doing. I’ve seen managers say i could have done things differently etc, but when a manager says he doesn’t regret a decision and we end up losing and that decision might of played a part in that then he’s gonna get eaten alive by fans. Even pundits like Neville said it was a mistake.
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Lying doesn't make him look clueless, because it's quite obvious he wouldn't tell the truth most the time. It's not a court room.

I think people are naieve if they want to hang on a managers every word. Press interviews are there to maintain a strong front and give the media little to work from.
 
VP89 said:
Lying doesn't make him look clueless, because it's quite obvious he wouldn't tell the truth most the time. It's not a court room.

I think people are naieve if they want to hang on a managers every word. Press interviews are there to maintain a strong front and give the media little to work from.
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Fair enough. Still a strange decision. Most of the fans know it was a wrong choice and it was that decision that probably cost us the game.
 
Protected Mainoo. I fully stand by him on his decision. Bringing on McT just shows his lack of real depth in Midfield. Once Casemiro, Lindelof and Martinez return you will have other options in a similar scenario.
 
VP89 said:
Lying doesn't make him look clueless, because it's quite obvious he wouldn't tell the truth most the time. It's not a court room.

I think people are naieve if they want to hang on a managers every word. Press interviews are there to maintain a strong front and give the media little to work from.
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I can't believe people even read what he says. Don't listen to what he says, watch what he does. Actions speak louder than words. If he brings McT on for Mainoo again or plays McT in DM despite other options then you know he really doesn't regret that decision.
 
Bobski said:
Dalot would be left 2 v 1 against Elanga and Yates if McT runs away from the ball carrier. AWB is behind Gibbs White on the break and just runs away from him when he can see the dangerous space he is running into, Evans or Varane could also easily come out and react instead of dropping so deep, to put it all on McT doesn't make sense to me. If he does drop middle onto Gibbs-White and they score from the 2 v 1 he would get the blame for that as well.

There is a lack of communication as a group in that break.
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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
For both goals Scott was drawn to the ball and it was passed into the hole he vacated to score
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Yates actually never made an overlapping run. Elanga was 1v 1 against Dalot. As he said McT left a hole cuz he doesn't have the instincts of a DM, that's why it's on ETH for playing him there

But you are right about lack of communication. Noone in the box but Varane goes to protect the 6yrd box leaving MGW who he was initially tracking on the counter.
 
I've watched the game 3 times since. I didn't see Mainoo do anything particularly wrong in the first half and he had some good clearances. The only thing i'd say was he was a bit passive in his passing and movement but attacks were all going down the right side and breaking down from the non-existent link-up play between Anthony and Wan-Bissaka. It could be that Ten Hag wanted Mainoo to show more dynamism by making a run into the box during those moments because there was just nothing on. I've never seen more impotent attacking play. Fair enough if that is the case. The last thing we want is him getting into a passive mindset were he does just enough evey week to stay in the team.
 
mav_9me said:
I can't believe people even read what he says. Don't listen to what he says, watch what he does. Actions speak louder than words. If he brings McT on for Mainoo again or plays McT in DM despite other options then you know he really doesn't regret that decision.
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I agree. And then I'd be more worried :lol:
 
ETH took a gamble which went the wrong way, it happens, but replacing Mainoo with McT wasn't the reason we lost that game. We played the whole game as Forest no doubt expected us to do and they took the chances on offer, we didn't. The one goal we got was a keeper mistake.
This display coming so soon after the thrilling and heart pumping game against Villa, is a real head-scratching issue, that no one seems to have an answer for!
 
Mctominay’s all round performances have been terrible this season, scoring a few goals has glossed over just how bad he has been. Bringing him on to play that role and expecting it to be a positive was dumb and/or desperate.
 
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