Mauricio Pochettino or Brendan Rodgers? The big debate…

Poch v Rodgers for next United manager?

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NextSeason said:
I wouldn't be so sure, there is a reason he's an odds-on favourite with the bookies. Really doubt the board even consider how the fans would take an appointment, they will do what suits them.
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While I do respect wisdom of the crowd / knowledge of bookies, vocal fans with a higher voice, just matters more in the overall debate.

It's like in danish national telly, sometimes the question is asked "what's the bigger derby? City or Scousers?" and sometimes it gets to a 50/50 depending on what younger generations or douches on the street you ask, but all real fans knows its the vermin from merseyside.
 
eire-red said:
I still think Pochettino could do great things with this side, and we missed a trick not getting him when he was available. The pressure will be huge, but just like how we target players, we should look for someone hungry and desperate to prove themselves.

The wheels fell off in his last season at Spurs, with no investment after the building of the stadium, but I think the levels he reached with that Spurs squad were impressive.

Coaching, recruitment, style of play and his character are all positives for me. I don't fancy Ten Haag at all, I don't think our style of play or players are set up for his system at all. Rodgers, I don't want either, and there's the whole Liverpool link there too. Conte, I would have taken short term, and Zidane I don't know how he would do with a team not at it's peak, and if he'd be interested in the job at all.

Given time and proper recruitment, I believe Pochettino could be successful for us. And I think he'd fancy this job long term too. It's very hard to say, and I just hope our board doesn't panic. For me, I'm approaching ABO (anyone but Ole), but we need to get this appointment right. The squad is nearly there, and with a couple midfielders we just need someone to bring it all together.
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I think that we can ignore his last season at Spurs,like you said the wheels fell off because of years of under investment.Klopp finished 12th in his final season at Dortmund,that 1 season obviously didn’t make him a bad manager.My choice would be Pochettino….
 
I'm a little concerned by how direction-less Leicester have looked for a while now. At least with Pochettino we know the team should likely press and I think getting Greenwood, Rashford and Sancho to do that is our best chance to have a dominant team since they are young and quick enough to do so and keep us on the front foot.
 
I thought that overall Pochettino did a cracking job at Spurs. I think this constant thing about choking is a nonsense. It's Tottenham Hotspur, they were never a favourite for anything even when they got to a final. The task for a manager is to make a competitive side at Tottenham. That means being around the top 4 and looking a unit. He absolutely achieved that. His Spurs side were the best they've been since I can remember.

If anything I'd be more worried about how tits up it went than the so called choke. But I don't think it is enough to sour his work. If he picks up a title at PSG and gets that monkey off his back then came here it would be a great scenario for us.
 
Nikelesh Reddy said:
I think that we can ignore his last season at Spurs,like you said the wheels fell off because of years of under investment.Klopp finished 12th in his final season at Dortmund,that 1 season obviously didn’t make him a bad manager.My choice would be Pochettino….
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What's with some of Pochettino's fans rewriting of history to put him in better light one of them wrote Tottenham never finished top 4 prior to His arrival when infact they finished twice in top 4 with 6th their lowest finish in 5 seasons prior to his arrival and you now stating Klopp finished 12 th in his final season with Dortmund when infact they finished 7th and their underlying stats actually painted a rather rosier picture than their actual finish .

Well I don't rate Pochettino highly because his football is rather dour and unimaginative but I still believe he is a good manager but targetting him while passing on Conte is a baffling move to say the least .
 
Sir Alex called Pochettino the best manager in the league few years ago. So I think the board wants him and are banking on the fact that he will be free at the end of the season at least. He only has few months on his contract as well…
I don’t get why the board didn’t get him when he was available. They are so slow to act…
 
gajender said:
What's with some of Pochettino's fans rewriting of history to put him in better light one of them wrote Tottenham never finished top 4 prior to His arrival when infact they finished twice in top 4 with 6th their lowest finish in 5 seasons prior to his arrival and you now stating Klopp finished 12 th in his final season with Dortmund when infact they finished 7th and their underlying stats actually painted a rather rosier picture than their actual finish .

Well I don't rate Pochettino highly because his football is rather dour and unimaginative but I still believe he is a good manager but targetting him while passing on Conte is a baffling move to say the least .
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Not baffling at all. Pochettino won’t expose them if he don’t get what he wants. That’s why they don’t want Conte and are so happy with Ole…
 
Nikelesh Reddy said:
Ten hags a massive risk.Never managed in one of the big leagues in Europe…Not sure if he can cut it in the PL….
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Its the sort of progressive risk this club should be taking. He proven himself extremely adept in the CL, which is a high quality test of his credentials. Rodgers has proven to be a solid PL manager but has a track record of his teams bottling in the home straight. If we hire him expecting something different we are setting ourselves up for failure. He also has a terrible European record. Zidane’s record is imperious, and Poch has a much better CL record than Rodgers. Hence my order of preference.

At the end of the day every manager we bring in, except probably Klopp or Guardiola, has an element of risk.
 
roseguy64 said:
Love that neither is winning.
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As much as I have issues with how Poch has been doing so far at PSG, I don't think you can say he's not winning. They're first in the league with some air to breathe which is more than you can say about last season and they're second in the group despite some pretty mediocre performances, beating City in their first game. The issue though is they seem to be winning in spite of Poch, and not because of him. It's simply relying on a moment of individual brilliance, and because of how much talent he has on his team, it tends to happen more often than not and so far has been enough to carry him through but it won't last unless he actually starts to put his imprint on the team and the clock is ticking.
 
Ten Hag would be my pick, but it won't be him.

Rodgers is not a bad coach, but he is an insufferable bellend and having him as United manager will be a cringeworthy experience. He's not the man to take on Guardiola, Tuchel, Conte and Klopp, either.
 
Sayros said:
As much as I have issues with how Poch has been doing so far at PSG, I don't think you can say he's not winning. They're first in the league with some air to breathe which is more than you can say about last season and they're second in the group despite some pretty mediocre performances, beating City in their first game. The issue though is they seem to be winning in spite of Poch, and not because of him. It's simply relying on a moment of individual brilliance, and because of how much talent he has on his team, it tends to happen more often than not and so far has been enough to carry him through but it won't last unless he actually starts to put his imprint on the team and the clock is ticking.
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Meant in the polls
 
Tyrion said:
Apart from maybe Tuchel and Conte, no-one seems to be. We shouldn't think like that though. We should just go for the best we can. We wouldn't keep a bad striker because we can't get Lewandowski.
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I just don't get the excitement of sacking a manager that probably won't win the league, to hiring another fairweather manager like Rodgers or Poch who probably won't win the league.

It's like Groundhog Day, again and again.
 
spiriticon said:
I just don't get the excitement of sacking a manager that probably won't win the league, to hiring another fairweather manager like Rodgers or Poch who probably won't win the league.

It's like Groundhog Day, again and again.
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Rodgers and Poch are both better than Ole imo. Both have been successes at other PL clubs. Both have a clear style of play that they have been able to get their teams to play. We should focus on being as good as possible rather than on trying to win the league with the next appointment.

That said, I think Poch is better than Rodgers and has less baggage.
 
Christophe galtier with Lille outmanaged pochettino last season.

So why should we not go for him instead?

His previous track record is impressive..he improves players and now even at his new club nice he is doing well. Has a great record of improving players as well.
 
FromTheBench said:
Christophe galtier with Lille outmanaged pochettino last season.

So why should we not go for him instead?

His previous track record is impressive..he improves players and now even at his new club nice he is doing well. Has a great record of improving players as well.
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It is weird. Look at his track record and it's super impressive. There only thing I can think it's that United is all about names, marketing etc. It just would seem unlike us to go for somebody like that. I think there's an element of pandering to fans and this guys name isn't being mentioned.
 
Absolutely convinced our chance to get Poch was last November after the Istanbul farce but we decided to back Ole instead
 
Both are not good enough to win trophies while Klopp and Pep are around. But both are good enough that the board won't sack them when an upgrade does become available. So most likely we will continue to be stuck in limbo for another ~3 seasons with no trophies if we do hire them. The likes of Zidane and Ten Hag are riskier but have a higher ceiling and ability to win a major trophy in the short-mid term.
 
simonhch said:
Ten Hag
Zidane
Poch

In that order. Rodgers shouldn’t even be considered.
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Bit silly to discount Rodgers when your other names are Ten hag and Poch to be fair.

If those two are in consideration, Rodgers definitely is.
 
Although good fun playing fantasy football manager; all I really want is someone, and I don’t really care who it is, who can make the team greater than the sum of its parts, then we really will have a team able to challenge for honours.
 
Neither, both of them are just above average managers and won't be able to compete with the big 4 (Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte)

I don't see who we can hire now who could give them a run, but Zidane seems like the person based on his CV, obviously even that is no guarantee. Haag is another one who might be the "next big thing".

Every time I think about this, I feel so gutted that we let Conte go to Spurs.
 
spiriticon said:
I just don't get the excitement of sacking a manager that probably won't win the league, to hiring another fairweather manager like Rodgers or Poch who probably won't win the league.

It's like Groundhog Day, again and again.
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It's not as straightforward as asking "can this manager win the league?". There's a lot of ground we need to make before we ask ourselves that question before appointing a manager, Ole will finish outside the top 4, if he's here till the end of the season, I can out money on that.
As bad as this is going to sound, but right now it's more important to get rid of Ole than hire the manager that can win us the league.
 
kthanksbye said:
It's not as straightforward as asking "can this manager win the league?". There's a lot of ground we need to make before we ask ourselves that question before appointing a manager, Ole will finish outside the top 4, if he's here till the end of the season, I can out money on that.
As bad as this is going to sound, but right now it's more important to get rid of Ole than hire the manager that can win us the league.
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I think it is though. Ole has finished in the top 4 in all his seasons here. I think he will finish in the top 4 this year because there's usually a part of the season where he picks up some good form.

The question has to be the title in the next couple of seasons, because I don't think Ole will achieve that. If the standards are lowered for a new manager, then we're being a little unfair on Ole.
 
pocco said:
It is weird. Look at his track record and it's super impressive. There only thing I can think it's that United is all about names, marketing etc. It just would seem unlike us to go for somebody like that. I think there's an element of pandering to fans and this guys name isn't being mentioned.
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Galtier is going no where, he has been freshly employed by Nice, he is one of the few managers that I don't see leave a club quickly and iirc he picked Nice over Lyon because his family lives in Marseille which is apparently a key point.
 
spiriticon said:
I think it is though. Ole has finished in the top 4 in all his seasons here. I think he will finish in the top 4 this year because there's usually a part of the season where he picks up some good form.

The question has to be the title in the next couple of seasons, because I don't think Ole will achieve that. If the standards are lowered for a new manager, then we're being a little unfair on Ole.
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That's what it isn't, we shouldn't wait to mathematically be out of the top 4 before we make a move, that's a bad way to manage things. Standards for Ole and the new manager might be same as far as league finish is concerned, but they will be different in terms of what happens during games, how we setup, how we play.

That part of the season might not come, remember a lot of teams were struggling last season, Chelsea with Lampard, Spurs with Jose, Liverpool with injuries. Then there's the whole COVID thing to consider, record points away from home, record comeback wins, is all good when done in an empty away stadium, it's a different gravy when you go down to a PL team at their home with fans behind them.
So Ole finishing 2nd last season was a lot down to other factors, factors that are out of the picture now.
 
Damn. The poll results are pretty tough. Even Poch is probably most people’s third option at best.
 
kthanksbye said:
That's what it isn't, we shouldn't wait to mathematically be out of the top 4 before we make a move, that's a bad way to manage things. Standards for Ole and the new manager might be same as far as league finish is concerned, but they will be different in terms of what happens during games, how we setup, how we play.

That part of the season might not come, remember a lot of teams were struggling last season, Chelsea with Lampard, Spurs with Jose, Liverpool with injuries. Then there's the whole COVID thing to consider, record points away from home, record comeback wins, is all good when done in an empty away stadium, it's a different gravy when you go down to a PL team at their home with fans behind them.
So Ole finishing 2nd last season was a lot down to other factors, factors that are out of the picture now.
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No point playing pretty football and getting crap results in the Premier League. At the end of the day, you'd still get the sack. I'm not even sure Poch or Rodgers' football is that pretty anyhow.

You can make a lot of reasons why Ole won't make top 4 this year, and I can make a lot of reasons why he will. The most important thing is that his track record shows that Ole makes the top 4 in the end.

My idea is that any new manager coming in should be able to do better than what Ole has been doing results wise. If it's just qualifying for the top 4 for the next few seasons with a new manager, then I'm a little underwhelmed.
 
spiriticon said:
No point playing pretty football and getting crap results in the Premier League. At the end of the day, you'd still get the sack. I'm not even sure Poch or Rodgers' football is that pretty anyhow.

You can make a lot of reasons why Ole won't make top 4 this year, and I can make a lot of reasons why he will. The most important thing is that his track record shows that Ole makes the top 4 in the end.

My idea is that any new manager coming in should be able to do better than what Ole has been doing results wise. If it's just qualifying for the top 4 for the next few seasons with a new manager, then I'm a little underwhelmed.
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Not pretty, better football, it obviously does not guarantee top 4 but it does increase the chances of a higher finish in the table. Poch has done it with Spurs, Brendon has been on the fringes with Leicester (although I wouldn't want either of them).

I don't see how anyone can convince me that Ole will finish in the top 4 considering what we've seen so far this season. I've already discussed the factors that were at play that lead to us finishing top 4 last season.

I agree with the last paragraph, only difference is that I believe that with our current trajectory we're on course for a 6th or 7th place finish, a new manager will be required to stop this spiral, if that same manager can win us or at least compete for the league title then it would be the best scenario, but just because we can't find someone who guarantees that (Conte was one manager who has a track record to make that happen and we let him go), does not mean we cannot do anything about the fact that we're falling like a rock and just got humiliated by both our rivals and title challengers.
 
kthanksbye said:
Not pretty, better football, it obviously does not guarantee top 4 but it does increase the chances of a higher finish in the table. Poch has done it with Spurs, Brendon has been on the fringes with Leicester (although I wouldn't want either of them).

I don't see how anyone can convince me that Ole will finish in the top 4 considering what we've seen so far this season. I've already discussed the factors that were at play that lead to us finishing top 4 last season.

I agree with the last paragraph, only difference is that I believe that with our current trajectory we're on course for a 6th or 7th place finish, a new manager will be required to stop this spiral, if that same manager can win us or at least compete for the league title then it would be the best scenario, but just because we can't find someone who guarantees that (Conte was one manager who has a track record to make that happen and we let him go), does not mean we cannot do anything about the fact that we're falling like a rock and just got humiliated by both our rivals and title challengers.
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Oh come on. This is not the first time you've seen the Ole coaster. We go on incredible highs and despicable lows during the course of the season. On those highs we look like we can beat anyone, on the lows we look like we could lose to anyone. Over the course of the season things average out to a top 4 finish.

With all due respect to Poch and Rodgers, this is the Manchester United hotseat. Not Spurs or Leicester. And right now this seat is hotter than ever after not winning any trophies in 4 years. The job has already proven too big for managers with good track records. We need someone who can make an instant impact without tearing the house down like Mourinho. We don't need a manager who needs a few years to 'build his team' and play 'better football (it's subjective)' while not winning anything, only to get sacked again in the third year. It gets boring.
 
I don't think Rodgers has won even a single KO tie in Europe (CL + Europa), that's very poor record.
 
I wouldn't mind if we got Poch but I'm still not sure how good he is at managing egos. He has the likes of Messi, Neymar and Mbappe at his disposal and yet, I don't see PSG playing amazing football as such. I have my doubts with Brendon as well but he almost won a title at Liverpool except for we all know what happened there :P My choice would be Erik Ten Hag because I personally think his football tactics are all on the front foot and it is the best for United right now.
 
So many people talking rubbish about Rodgers. There is no way you can guess if he can win the league with us or not so stop pretending that you can. He may just click with us.
He played some really good football with Liverpool, won things and improved massively since leaving them, I can't see any reason why shouldn't we consider him.
We can't actually hire Pep or Klopp, and we certainly wont lure Ten Haag mid season.
People don't realize how fecked we will be if we persist with the grinning legend untill summer.
So, between Poch and Rodgers, I'd prefer Rodgers, but wouldn't mind Poch either.
 
Thread title should be "the average debate", not the "big debate", as both managers are quite average. (albeit both better options than the current one)
 
spiriticon said:
Oh come on. This is not the first time you've seen the Ole coaster. We go on incredible highs and despicable lows during the course of the season. On those highs we look like we can beat anyone, on the lows we look like we could lose to anyone. Over the course of the season things average out to a top 4 finish.

With all due respect to Poch and Rodgers, this is the Manchester United hotseat. Not Spurs or Leicester. And right now this seat is hotter than ever after not winning any trophies in 4 years. The job has already proven too big for managers with good track records. We need someone who can make an instant impact without tearing the house down like Mourinho. We don't need a manager who needs a few years to 'build his team' and play 'better football (it's subjective)' while not winning anything, only to get sacked again in the third year. It gets boring.
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There's surely some area between not winning anything and getting humiliated by the teams we aspire to finish above, isn't there?
I'm not too sure about Poch or Rogers either, but I'd have taken Conte in a heartbeat, and you're right about not allowing the next manager 3 seasons to make the team his, nothing more than 2 transfer windows for him to get a few players that suit his style of football, but even before that, he needs to show that the players we have right now are playing a brand of football that he's trying to instil.
 
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