Matthijs de Ligt / signs for Juventus, lowering their average age to 56

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roonster09 said:
Almost all big clubs have DoF, wonder why they didn't sign him 2 years ago?

Like @Keeps It tidy said, he was well know player but not all youngsters want to pack bags as soon as big clubs is in for them. There are many players who want to develop with first team before making a move.
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Thanks, yes I know this.

But what I also know just from my eyes is our transfer strategy has been pretty poor for a long time. A DOF is definitely required and all any of us can do is speculate about De Ligt, maybe he did want to leave at 16, maybe Ajax would have let him go at that age also if the financial compensation was good enough.

We sign a lot of youth over the years who are supposed to be the next this or that and rarely do any make the grade. Something has to change with our scouting and purchasing of players, it's necessary to get us back challenging at least for the major honors.
 
NJM78 said:
Thanks, yes I know this.

But what I also know just from my eyes is our transfer strategy has been pretty poor for a long time. A DOF is definitely required and all any of us can do is speculate about De Ligt, maybe he did want to leave at 16, maybe Ajax would have let him go at that age also if the financial compensation was good enough.

We sign a lot of youth over the years who are supposed to be the next this or that and rarely do any make the grade. Something has to change with our scouting and purchasing of players, it's necessary to get us back challenging at least for the major honors.
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You can apply this logic to every player who became stars, that why they weren't signed when they were in academy or just started to play for senior football.

Hit rate for young player becoming star is very low at any club, Nothing to do with recruitment. At big clubs they don't get chances at first team as the pressure to win is very big.
 
NJM78 said:
Thanks, yes I know this.

But what I also know just from my eyes is our transfer strategy has been pretty poor for a long time. A DOF is definitely required and all any of us can do is speculate about De Ligt, maybe he did want to leave at 16, maybe Ajax would have let him go at that age also if the financial compensation was good enough.

We sign a lot of youth over the years who are supposed to be the next this or that and rarely do any make the grade. Something has to change with our scouting and purchasing of players, it's necessary to get us back challenging at least for the major honors.
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De Ligt might still not make the grade at a big club.
 
L'équipe tv said the wish list of Zidane is: De Ligt, Pogba, Hazard, Rabiot, Mbappé and Jovic. 500m € to spend this summer.
 
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roonster09 said:
You can apply this logic to every player who became stars, that why they weren't signed when they were in academy or just started to play for senior football.

Hit rate for young player becoming star is very low at any club, Nothing to do with recruitment. At big clubs they don't get chances at first team as the pressure to win is very big.
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So a fine balance is required, we wouldn't even give Depay and Zaha a lot of patience and should have loaned them out to gain the experience and confidence they needed as both would potentially walk into our team now. Again decisions by our club have been bizarre and away from signing young talent the other signings we have made have been mostly bad, I hope a top class DOF is appointed 100%.

Hit rate yes is low, but to say recruitment has nothing to do with it I do not agree with.
Sancho would not be playing at City so yes he is only being really noticed now due to Dortmund showing faith in him. I would like to have seen Chong and Gomes loaned out already to gain experience. Pereira and Fosu Mensah haven't set the world a light on loan. It is difficult but I believe other clubs do recruitment on all levels better than us.
 
Raw said:
That's insane. I don't think 500m wouldn't cover that either.
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They'll sell Bale, Kroos, Isco, Modric (maybe). I think Mbappé will stay at PSG this summer.
Hazard has only 1 year left at Chelsea. They are on a transfer ban but they have to cash in or loose him on a free next season. Rabiot is free.
 
NJM78 said:
So a fine balance is required, we wouldn't even give Depay and Zaha a lot of patience and should have loaned them out to gain the experience and confidence they needed as both would potentially walk into our team now. Again decisions by our club have been bizarre and away from signing young talent the other signings we have made have been mostly bad, I hope a top class DOF is appointed 100%.

Hit rate yes is low, but to say recruitment has nothing to do with it I do not agree with.
Sancho would not be playing at City so yes he is only being really noticed now due to Dortmund showing faith in him. I would like to have seen Chong and Gomes loaned out already to gain experience. Pereira and Fosu Mensah haven't set the world a light on loan. It is difficult but I believe other clubs do recruitment on all levels better than us.
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Chelsea with DoF sold players like Salah, KdB and many others. I agree our recruitment is poor and there is a huge disconnect between the managers but to somehow believe DoF will magically fix everything is just fantasy.

You can never be sure of young players and how they make the step up to senior football. This isn't FM where you know the CA and PA and can be sure which player will make the grade.

For example, Inter's DoF just signed 30 year old player for big money + Zaniolo who is looking like great talent, City have DoF and couldn't retain Diaz, Sancho. Chelsea have DoF and their best player have only 1 year left on contract and their best young player have 1 year left on contract. Barca have DoF, signed Malcom who isn't even playing for them and signed Coutinho who doesn't fit their coach's plan.

Funnily enough all these teams with DoF didn't sign all the star young players before they made it big.
 
roonster09 said:
Chelsea with DoF sold players like Salah, KdB and many others. I agree our recruitment is poor and there is a huge disconnect between the managers but to somehow believe DoF will magically fix everything is just fantasy.

You can never be sure of young players and how they make the step up to senior football. This isn't FM where you know the CA and PA and can be sure which player will make the grade.

For example, Inter's DoF just signed 30 year old player for big money + Zaniolo who is looking like great talent, City have DoF and couldn't retain Diaz, Sancho. Chelsea have DoF and their best player have only 1 year left on contract and their best young player have 1 year left on contract. Barca have DoF, signed Malcom who isn't even playing for them and signed Coutinho who doesn't fit their coach's plan.

Funnily enough all these teams with DoF didn't sign all the star young players before they made it big.
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The FM stuff is lost on me as I do not play it or FIFA for that matter.

I'm not saying it will be resolved immediately with a magical fix. City couldn't keep these players but already have a squad much better than ours, so too Barcelona and Chelsea who are the worst for having youngsters and a million loans. The have still won the league twice since we last have and look no worse a team than us.
So we either have too many crap players, hire too many crap managers or have crap people in charge of signing these managers and players?
If you believe a DOF will not help that is fair enough and your opinion but when we are winning leagues and challenging for the CL each year I will ignore my worries. I'm not a plastic or glory hunter either I have supported this club for 34 years but it's obvious, to me at least, that these other clubs are operating better than us and considering we are still very rich and have the two most expensive players in British transfer history we cannot just use money as an excuse for falling behind not just City but Liverpool and Spurs also.
Our best player De Gea only has one year left on his contract also, just maybe if we had a better DOF than Chelsea and a plan to take us forward, he would have signed on by now. Or he just wants huge money because of the ridiculous wages we agreed to pay Sanchez.
I think you are slightly misunderstanding me as I am not claiming we are the only club that makes mistakes and of course ours are more highlighted as we support this club day in and day out, just feel a change is required and I guess you feel the same as me in seeing us up amongst the best again asap.

Anyway I would love us to get De ligt or at least try but I doubt it due to fact we gave new deals to Laurel and Hardy and still have Rojo and Bailly.
 
NJM78 said:
The FM stuff is lost on me as I do not play it or FIFA for that matter.

I'm not saying it will be resolved immediately with a magical fix. City couldn't keep these players but already have a squad much better than ours, so too Barcelona and Chelsea who are the worst for having youngsters and a million loans. The have still won the league twice since we last have and look no worse a team than us.
So we either have too many crap players, hire too many crap managers or have crap people in charge of signing these managers and players?
If you believe a DOF will not help that is fair enough and your opinion but when we are winning leagues and challenging for the CL each year I will ignore my worries. I'm not a plastic or glory hunter either I have supported this club for 34 years but it's obvious, to me at least, that these other clubs are operating better than us and considering we are still very rich and have the two most expensive players in British transfer history we cannot just use money as an excuse for falling behind not just City but Liverpool and Spurs also.
Our best player De Gea only has one year left on his contract also, just maybe if we had a better DOF than Chelsea and a plan to take us forward, he would have signed on by now. Or he just wants huge money because of the ridiculous wages we agreed to pay Sanchez.
I think you are slightly misunderstanding me as I am not claiming we are the only club that makes mistakes and of course ours are more highlighted as we support this club day in and day out, just feel a change is required and I guess you feel the same as me in seeing us up amongst the best again asap.

Anyway I would love us to get De ligt or at least try but I doubt it due to fact we gave new deals to Laurel and Hardy and still have Rojo and Bailly.
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I'm not against DoF, in fact I want us to sign one to take the load off Ole.

I was just arguing your point that we should have signed De Ligt some 2 seasons ago, that it won't work like that and even if we had DoF, there is no guarantee we would have signed him considering he was well known talent and plenty of big clubs with DoF couldn't sign him.
 
MetoTTT said:
L'équipe tv said the wish list of Zidane is: De Ligt, Pogba, Hazard, Rabiot, Mbappé and Jovic. 500m € to spend this summer.
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Agreed, I doubt 500 million euros would even get you Mbappe and Pogba.
 
If he goes for €70m (£60m) that's insane.

Barcelona or Bayern won't give him more than 100-120k/week. We should offer him silly wages.
 
Trizy said:
If he goes for €70m (£60m) that's insane.

Barcelona or Bayern won't give him more than 100-120k/week. We should offer him silly wages.
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Why not? Barca blew everyone apart by offering superb wages for de Jong, why won't they do to sign De Ligt?
 
Spielmacher said:
I agree, he'll cost way more.
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Hernandez a World Cup winner and outstandingly young talent with more experience just went for 68 mil. DeLigt you would think won’t go for higher than that unless there is a bidding war. 60-70 sounds about right, especially when Militao went for was it 62mil.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Hernandez a World Cup winner and outstandingly young talent with more experience just went for 68 mil. DeLigt you would think won’t go for higher than that unless there is a bidding war. 60-70 sounds about right, especially when Militao went for was it 62mil.
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Bayern paid the release clause, they did not negotiate with Athletico, so Hernandez' transfer price should not have any impact on DeLigt's value.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Hernandez a World Cup winner and outstandingly young talent with more experience just went for 68 mil. DeLigt you would think won’t go for higher than that unless there is a bidding war. 60-70 sounds about right, especially when Militao went for was it 62mil.
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Hernandez is 3.5 years older and a usually fiscally very responsible club in Bayern decided that the release-clause of 80M€ was worth it, which shows the going-rate for top-tier talent nowadays, even in defence. Eder Militao is on his first season with Porto, after transferring from Brazil, I'd say it's way less certain he'll become a world-class centre-back than de Ligt, and like Bayern did with Hernandez, Real Madrid activated a release-clause in Eder Militao's Porto contract. So both shouldn't really be the telling factor for de Ligt's price, like @seegoblu already mentioned.

But it's so much more than that IMO, de Ligt is 19 years old and already has so many accolades to his name, first Golden Boy winner ever that was a defender, youngest captain to lead his team into the knockout-stages of the Champions League and many more. And when you watch him play he's so incredibly well rounded in everything a defender needs to do and more, he looks experienced well beyond his age. I'm very convinced he will be a top drawer player for whoever gets him. Honestly can't even see us having a sniff if Barca are in for him, which it looks like they are.
 
Trizy said:
If he goes for €70m (£60m) that's insane.

Barcelona or Bayern won't give him more than 100-120k/week. We should offer him silly wages.
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Hernandez is allegedly on €13m p.a. at Bayern which is £215k/week.
 
roonster09 said:
I'm not against DoF, in fact I want us to sign one to take the load off Ole.

I was just arguing your point that we should have signed De Ligt some 2 seasons ago, that it won't work like that and even if we had DoF, there is no guarantee we would have signed him considering he was well known talent and plenty of big clubs with DoF couldn't sign him.
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Ok cool. Just hope the likes of him and others who are now starting to look like real top talents are the players we at least try to sign, in the posistions we need of course.
No guarantee we appeal to them but our hat must be thrown in.
 
I hope Ed bids big for this guy even if de ligt is determined not to join us. Just so we can drive the price up to insane figures for Real & Barca to fork out.
 
Acrobat7 said:
Hernandez is allegedly on €13m p.a. at Bayern which is £215k/week.
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Really? Those tight fisted German feckers aren't messing around. Good to see, they've stayed out of the high end market too long.
 
sideshow_bob said:
I hope Ed bids big for this guy even if de ligt is determined not to join us. Just so we can drive the price up to insane figures for Real & Barca to fork out.
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Problem with that game is, other clubs see what you're offering and then play silly buggers when we're negotiating for our actual targets.
 
MetoTTT said:
L'équipe tv said the wish list of Zidane is: De Ligt, Pogba, Hazard, Rabiot, Mbappé and Jovic. 500m € to spend this summer.
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PSG wouldn't sell Mbappe alone for 500m Euros.

Pogba and Mbappe are completely unattainable.

Take those two out and 500m should cover the rest.

MetoTTT said:
They'll sell Bale, Kroos, Isco, Modric (maybe). I think Mbappé will stay at PSG this summer.
Hazard has only 1 year left at Chelsea. They are on a transfer ban but they have to cash in or loose him on a free next season. Rabiot is free.
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No one will pay a penny for Bale. He is on obscene wages and injured all the time. Massive liability.

I would love Kroos.

Hazard looks a likely buy. Maybe Eriksen too.

Would be fantastic signings. I wish we could pull deals like that off.

roonster09 said:
Why not? Barca blew everyone apart by offering superb wages for de Jong, why won't they do to sign De Ligt?
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You do realise that Barca's wage bill is the highest in world sport and nearly DOUBLE ours?

The myth that we pay the best is really strange. We pay absolutely nowhere bear what Barca and Real do.

We do pay the most maybe relative to the quality of the players with are paying. We will pay good money to average players. They pay top money to top players.
 
KingMinger22 said:
You do realise that Barca's wage bill is the highest in world sport and nearly DOUBLE ours?

The myth that we pay the best is really strange. We pay absolutely nowhere bear what Barca and Real do.

We do pay the most maybe relative to the quality of the players with are paying. We will pay good money to average players. They pay top money to top players.
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I know Barca wage bill is huge, which didn't stop them paying huge wages for De Jong, so it won't stop them paying huge for De Ligt and then offload few players.
 
roonster09 said:
I know Barca wage bill is huge, which didn't stop them paying huge wages for De Jong, so it won't stop them paying huge for De Ligt and then offload few players.
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Whilst I agree, I read that Nike are actually paying a huge portion of De Jongs wages
 
Cassidy said:
Whilst I agree, I read that Nike are actually paying a huge portion of De Jongs wages
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Highly doubt that. That'd pissing on FFP. PSG wage bill will be 0 if that's allowed. Also Barca rivals were PSG who are also sponsored by Nike.
 
Spielmacher said:
Hernandez is 3.5 years older and a usually fiscally very responsible club in Bayern decided that the release-clause of 80M€ was worth it, which shows the going-rate for top-tier talent nowadays, even in defence. Eder Militao is on his first season with Porto, after transferring from Brazil, I'd say it's way less certain he'll become a world-class centre-back than de Ligt, and like Bayern did with Hernandez, Real Madrid activated a release-clause in Eder Militao's Porto contract. So both shouldn't really be the telling factor for de Ligt's price, like @seegoblu already mentioned.

But it's so much more than that IMO, de Ligt is 19 years old and already has so many accolades to his name, first Golden Boy winner ever that was a defender, youngest captain to lead his team into the knockout-stages of the Champions League and many more. And when you watch him play he's so incredibly well rounded in everything a defender needs to do and more, he looks experienced well beyond his age. I'm very convinced he will be a top drawer player for whoever gets him. Honestly can't even see us having a sniff if Barca are in for him, which it looks like they are.
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I’m not doubting his skills but rather just pointing out that even going back to last year with Laporte or further back to stones there is sort of a presidence for a price range of these talents even if DeLigt has looked the most promising out of the lot.
I just don’t see him going for more than VVD unless a bidding war begins and it’s an English club that gets him no matter how brilliant he currently looks. Clauses or not it is setting a value of worth of top rated CB’s.

I just hope by some sort of miracle United are in for him and can get him but I think Barca are surely the favourites.
 
Trizy said:
Really? Those tight fisted German feckers aren't messing around. Good to see, they've stayed out of the high end market too long.
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They have always spend good money on wages. Kroos being the stupid exception. Their wage bill is probably top 5.
 
roonster09 said:
I know Barca wage bill is huge, which didn't stop them paying huge wages for De Jong, so it won't stop them paying huge for De Ligt and then offload few players.
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Still we are capable of beating them to it if we have the ambition.
 
roonster09 said:
Chelsea with DoF sold players like Salah, KdB and many others. I agree our recruitment is poor and there is a huge disconnect between the managers but to somehow believe DoF will magically fix everything is just fantasy.

You can never be sure of young players and how they make the step up to senior football. This isn't FM where you know the CA and PA and can be sure which player will make the grade.

For example, Inter's DoF just signed 30 year old player for big money + Zaniolo who is looking like great talent, City have DoF and couldn't retain Diaz, Sancho. Chelsea have DoF and their best player have only 1 year left on contract and their best young player have 1 year left on contract. Barca have DoF, signed Malcom who isn't even playing for them and signed Coutinho who doesn't fit their coach's plan.

Funnily enough all these teams with DoF didn't sign all the star young players before they made it big.
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So refreshing to see a post where there’s an opinion that a DoF might not necessarily fix all transfer issues. Not that I’m saying we don’t need one (and neither are you) but there is no magic sponge for this. It’s coaching, scouting, manager, DoF, investment from owners and a LOT of luck that will net us another Rash, or get us a De Ligt.
 
Seems like De Ligt is Barcelona bound for 75m. United miss out on yet another talented player. Not sure what Ed and the board are doing. There doesn't seem to be that sort of enthusiasm to win anything.... just qualification for Champions League has become the goal and if we happen to win any titles in the bargain, that would be a bonus.
 
beingshe7don said:
Seems like De Ligt is Barcelona bound for 75m. United miss out on yet another talented player. Not sure what Ed and the board are doing. There doesn't seem to be that sort of enthusiasm to win anything.... just qualification for Champions League has become the goal and if we happen to win any titles in the bargain, that would be a bonus.
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Ed and the board can't do much, if De Ligt has his heart set on a move to Barca.
 
Adnan said:
Ed and the board can't do much, if De Ligt has his heart set on a move to Barca.
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Most Dutch players with some sort of technical ability would prefer them over us anyway due their history.

Hopefully we still have a chance but if we don't then it's hardly a surprise.
 
Adnan said:
Ed and the board can't do much, if De Ligt has his heart set on a move to Barca.
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This. I don't get it how people can not much can be done when a player in question has his sight set on another club.
 
I've just seen on Instagram that his manager has said he will leave but not sure if it'll be Barca or Bayern.

Now I see why Hummels and Boateng are up for grabs this summer.
 
NJM78 said:
100% agree and same applies to Sancho, Rice etc who seem to be flavour of the month.
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You never have a guarantee that a talented player will make it at a big club. Look at Nani and Ronaldo, both incredible talents when they arrived at United, Ronaldo arguably the rawer talent even but he went on to become one of the best players of all time while Nani never really established himself as a top player for a significant period of his career. Every youngster is a gamble to some degree.

The turth is though buying the ready made product doesn't guarantee success either, as we all should know after buying quite a load of ready made flops.
 
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