Matheus Cunha £62.5m release clause

Zumbi said:
I don’t know if someone’s pissed on your spreadsheets today or what, but your tone has come across as weirdly aggressive and accusatory.

Repeatedly accusing me of being disingenuous for comparing a forwards stats with a defenders stats, when the entire time in every post from the outset I was very specifically and very clearly comparing that forward’s defensive stats to his peers, is itself, entirely disingenuous.
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If that's your interpretation of it, then that's your interpretation. As far as I'm concerned it was a totally legitimate piece of criticism which was user agnostic (you'll notice I made a similar point in the original post you quoted me in in this thread). As I said, I'm more than happy with the points I've made on why your argument is disingenuous and for those to be judged by everyone else and nothing you've said since has required me to expand on that really.

If you want to continue to paint this as some kind of personal attack then that's your call, but like I said, criticism of an argument isn't an insult.
 
How are his pressing stats compared to, let's say, Amad?

I watched his goals today, and there was a goal that I saw, which is so United, ball over the top, from Lemina, perfect close control and finish. He is going to love playing with Bruno.

He seems to have this arrogance about him self on the pitch, a swagger. Something that we've missed for a long, long time. I would love if we bring him in. I would bet anyone here that he will score at least 15 PL goals for us next season.
 
Cassidy said:
I still personally think I would prefer Mbuemo but Cunha is a good option
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He's really good but he plays on the other side and stays out quite wide the majority of the time. He's more of a wide forward than a number 10.
 
Very exciting prospective signing. Has all the hallmarks of a top Utd player of old. And we need some cnutyness back.
 
Dion said:
From what I've heard from Villa sources there was a pretty reasonable chance Villa were going to sign Rashford if they made the Champions League, but without it they just don't have the finances.
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Do you think that Villa are going to pay Rashford 350K a week?
 
Dion said:
If that's your interpretation of it, then that's your interpretation. As far as I'm concerned it was a totally legitimate piece of criticism which was user agnostic (you'll notice I made a similar point in the original post you quoted me in in this thread). As I said, I'm more than happy with the points I've made on why your argument is disingenuous and for those to be judged by everyone else and nothing you've said since has required me to expand on that really.

If you want to continue to paint this as some kind of personal attack then that's your call, but like I said, criticism of an argument isn't an insult.
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You can’t see the wood for the trees. The entire crux of my argument was explicitly and consistently based on peer to peer comparisons from the very outset. And for some bizarre reason you have repeatedly ignored that fact in your determination to label me disingenuous for comparing a defender to an attacker - despite the volume of posts where I specifically referenced the peer to peer comparisons. It’s just like you’re shouting in an empty room with your fingers in your ears - just really odd.

Have a great day.
 
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Vidooq said:
How are his pressing stats compared to, let's say, Amad?
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Can't say much about comparing him to Amad, and the data isn't freely available but Opta noted he wins the ball very rarely when he presses (about 12% of the time) here. But to be honest Wolves aren't a great pressing team so it's hard to say.

One of the United stand presenters said he's at 22 pressures per 90 compared to Rashford at 15. How accurate that figure is is for anyone to guess, but she's the only one who seems to have reported on it.
 
Bondi77 said:
Do you think that Villa are going to pay Rashford 350K a week?
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I don't think Rashford is going to ask for £350k a week at his next club.


Edit: And in reply to a couple of posts above, I'm afraid I still have very little else to say on that issue. I stand by my criticism that it was a disingenuous argument and I'm happy for other people to judge how fair that criticism is.
 
cpresc said:
Based on that same logic, would you agree that Man Utd's data team are more experienced than anyone here?
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Don't know much about our data team. Don't know much about what other posters credentials are. I can recognize though, if somebody simply doesn't the point another person is trying to make. Nothing wrong with not being experienced working with such numbers, I am not experienced with it myself but I learned a few rules of thumb.
cpresc said:
And therefore, if they make the hire, the stats were good?
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Many assumptions in this question. I think, it is obvious, that it isn't the data team calling the final shots. And even if they would call this particular shot, we still wouldn't know how they got to it.

There is also no need to define a group or place or person who'd be able to function as some sort of authority in the question whether Cunha is or is not good enough. From what I saw in here, there is next to nobody who questions the player entirely. There are questions though about the outlay that would come with it. And those questions are absolutely fair. Cunha is surrounded by some hype these days. Thats great and it doesn't come out of nowhere. But If we spend that much money on one player, I think the majority will prefer as few warning lights as possible. (edit: and to drive that particular point right home - there is Cherki, who would have a lot the same attributes yet seemingly would come for a significantly lower price.)
 
Dion said:
I don't think Rashford is going to ask for £350k a week at his next club.


Edit: And in reply to a couple of posts above, I'm afraid I still have very little else to say on that issue. I stand by my criticism that it was a disingenuous argument and I'm happy for other people to judge how fair that criticism is.
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Players moving to another club and taking a pay cut is as rare as hens teeth and especially one in his mid twenties on a long lucrative contract.
 
Bondi77 said:
Players moving to another club and taking a pay cut is as rare as hens teeth and especially one in his mid twenties on a long lucrative contract.
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It's rare, but I also think in this case it's pretty clear both parties are unhappy and Rashford is young enough to have ambitions to play for England still. Think Alexis Sanchez or Griezmann, both took hefty pay cuts to leave 'bigger' clubs and join clubs where they were likely to play.

I don't think Rashford will be paupered by any means, but if it's a choice between staying and leaving I suspect there will be some compromising done by everyone.
 
Dion said:
It's rare, but I also think in this case it's pretty clear both parties are unhappy and Rashford is young enough to have ambitions to play for England still. Think Alexis Sanchez or Griezmann, both took hefty pay cuts to leave 'bigger' clubs and join clubs where they were likely to play.

I don't think Rashford will be paupered by any means, but if it's a choice between staying and leaving I suspect there will be some compromising done by everyone.
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The problem is he still has the option of taking his 350k a week and not playing for United, by just insisting he be sent on loan again. There's still a decent chance he's sold but I don't think it's a forgone conclusion by any means.

He also might try weasel his way back into the team if Amorim is sacked (which I don't think he will be to be fair).
 
Dion said:
It's rare, but I also think in this case it's pretty clear both parties are unhappy and Rashford is young enough to have ambitions to play for England still. Think Alexis Sanchez or Griezmann, both took hefty pay cuts to leave 'bigger' clubs and join clubs where they were likely to play.

I don't think Rashford will be paupered by any means, but if it's a choice between staying and leaving I suspect there will be some compromising done by everyone.
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You could be right.
All depends what is going on in the head of Marcus but it is obvious Ruben does not want him so maybe Utd will not demand a high fee for him and that will give the buying club some leeway in his wages.
The downside of that for us is that it gives us less money to pursue other targets.
 
reddev3 said:
He's really good but he plays on the other side and stays out quite wide the majority of the time. He's more of a wide forward than a number 10.
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He also plays through the middle for Brentford by the way. Just depends how they setup and who is available. Also we need a right sided 10 as much as we need a left sided one.
 
groovyalbert said:
Very exciting prospective signing. Has all the hallmarks of a top Utd player of old. And we need some cnutyness back.
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Definitely has the Utd DNA of grit, flair and sh!thouserry that we are all desperate for. I don’t see why, as others have said, that we would need to sell Garnacho to afford him? If we manage to sell both Rashford and Sancho (big ask given their wages and price tags), surely that would be enough.
If it’s true that he’s willing to talk to Utd reps I’ll cling on to that for some hope
 
Cassidy said:
He also plays through the middle for Brentford by the way. Just depends how they setup and who is available. Also we need a right sided 10 as much as we need a left sided one.
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There's this french kid who had two really good performances against us this season :devil:
 
Maybe he overperforming his previous seasons in the last two seasons, because he's entering his prime?
 
Xeque_279 said:
There's this french kid who had two really good performances against us this season :devil:
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Sure but Mbuemo is already alot better and is a goalscorer. Cherki looks good, but hes not going to be getting us 12-15 league goals
 
Cassidy said:
Sure but Mbuemo is already alot better and is a goalscorer. Cherki looks good, but hes not going to be getting us 12-15 league goals
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He's in his prime and will cost at least double of what Cherki will. Stylistically both very different too.
 
Andrei Kanspellthis said:
Definitely has the Utd DNA of grit, flair and sh!thouserry that we are all desperate for. I don’t see why, as others have said, that we would need to sell Garnacho to afford him? If we manage to sell both Rashford and Sancho (big ask given their wages and price tags), surely that would be enough.
If it’s true that he’s willing to talk to Utd reps I’ll cling on to that for some hope
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Sancho is going to Chelsea for £25m isn’t he?
 
Maureen-yo said:
Sancho is going to Chelsea for £25m isn’t he?
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You’re either being ironic, or you’ve lived under a rock for the last few months :)

Chelsea have a penalty clause of a measly £5m if they don’t follow through on the obligation, and Sancho seemingly hasn’t shown enough for them to go through with the signing. Doesn’t seem to be decided yet, but it feels likely that we’ll see him back when his loan is up.
 
So if this is true , what does it mean for Garnacho?

Also where do we see Mainoo in Amorim's system? 10 or playing deep?

Better hope we have a deal in place for a forward considering the cash implications
 
Rainy nights in Stoke said:
You’re either being ironic, or you’ve lived under a rock for the last few months :)

Chelsea have a penalty clause of a measly £5m if they don’t follow through on the obligation, and Sancho seemingly hasn’t shown enough for them to go through with the signing. Doesn’t seem to be decided yet, but it feels likely that we’ll see him back when his loan is up.
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I could be wrong but I haven't seen any reliable journalist insinuate that Chelsea are looking at terminating the agreement - just that it exists. Shortly after word of the termination fee came out, the word was that there was no indication of actually doing that.
 
I'm up for this signing, I'm just not up for paying £62.5million for it to happen. This lad for that money or Cherki for £25million. Only we would do the prior.
 
sullydnl said:
Do we think Bruno would play alongside Cunha in the #10 positions, or would signing Cunha see Bruno's primary role shift to CM for next season?
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Good question.

in my humble opinion, I like the measured and controlled Bruno who plays deeper to pass and spread it around, and if we have better 10s ahead of him, then it would even mean that he'll manage to find them easier and they can do things, imagine Amad & Cunha in the 10, both are technical and can operate in central tight spaces and make things happen.
 
mikeyt said:
I'm up for this signing, I'm just not up for paying £62.5million for it to happen. This lad for that money or Cherki for £25million. Only we would do the prior.
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The key things for Cunha over Cherki, he's obviously got bags of epl experience and shown he can shine in this league, but more importantly, I would guess is that Wolves play the same system as Amorim, he's used to it, understands it and can hit the ground running.

Signing Cunha and Delap makes so much sense.
 
Remember the geese said:
Mbeumo is very productive, but in no world would I want him over Cherki.
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Each to their own. Cherki may flatter to decisive in the PL and if hes playing in the front 3 he will need to seriously improve his productivity to he a top player in the PL. I would take Mbeumo all day, to me he is like
Mane at Southampton waiting to explode. Not only is he productive he is extremely hard working too
 
I like him, but either way, the exact kind of player we should be buying and what I've been saying I.e. if you buy players with the right attributes, even if we decide to change from 3-4-3 to 4-3-3, they're adaptable.

Just buying a pace merchant with low technical ability means they can't play as a wide 10 if we stick to 3-4-3 and buying a languid, silky playmaker with no pace or acceleration means they can't go out wide if we go with a 4-3-3.

Take Mo Salah for instance, I think he'd be class as a wide 10 (which he almost is considering Trent's game).

If we buy players with the right physical and technical attributes, their success depends a lot less on the formation.
 
redNATION said:
Out: Hjolund, Rashford, Antony, Sancho

In: Delap, Osimhen, Cherki, Cunha

Will transform the team, along with a deep lying playmaker in midfield, a RWB and GK.
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It's not Football manager, there's no chance of us pulling this off. I don't disagree with the players in/out but it's never going to happen. We need to be ready for a window where we'll get a few but Cunha is probably the biggest name/fee
 
Glorio said:
I like him, but either way, the exact kind of player we should be buying and what I've been saying I.e. if you buy players with the right attributes, even if we decide to change from 3-4-3 to 4-3-3, they're adaptable.

Just buying a pace merchant with low technical ability means they can't play as a wide 10 if we stick to 3-4-3 and buying a languid, silky playmaker with no pace or acceleration means they can't go out wide if we go with a 4-3-3.

Take Mo Salah for instance, I think he'd be class as a wide 10 (which he almost is considering Trent's game).

If we buy players with the right physical and technical attributes, their success depends a lot less on the formation.
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Agree wholeheartedly with bolded, quality players can function in different formations, Cunha has the right physical and technical attributes to operate in a 343 or 433, so does someone like Amad, we need more of those in the squad especially in the front lines.
 
Widow said:
It's not Football manager, there's no chance of us pulling this off. I don't disagree with the players in/out but it's never going to happen. We need to be ready for a window where we'll get a few but Cunha is probably the biggest name/fee
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You mean, we aren't Liverpool/Chelsea, so there is no chance of pulling this off on a reasonable budget.
 
Widow said:
It's not Football manager, there's no chance of us pulling this off. I don't disagree with the players in/out but it's never going to happen. We need to be ready for a window where we'll get a few but Cunha is probably the biggest name/fee
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I would agree with you, but unusually I think we are quite well set up for some sizeable turnover up front.

Whilst I don’t think we will buy those 4. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Cunha, Delap and someone else.

Radhford, Antony and Sancho should be gone without too much fuss. Think we might loan out Rasmus.
 
Exactly the profile we need. Physical, technical, creative and scores goals.

Give him the #10. Him and Bruno together, we will be cooking.
 
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