Great work Harms. Has there ever been a more multi-faceted player?
Match Compilations
- Thread starter Šjor Bepo
- Start date
Nice intro and great video.
Maybe some obscure old-school South-American players like pedernera.
But yeah, Gullit is the last Total Football Player
Cheers. I think it’s unlikely that anyone from pre-50’s had a comparable physique to Gullit, which is something that separates him from the next tier of all-rounded geniuses like Beckenbauer/Cruyff/Di Stéfano...
Sarosi & Valentino Mazzola are players that I would’ve been the most interested in though from the pre-TV era if we’re talking about potentially all-time great all-rounders.
Died few days ago and since there is barely any footage of him was curious to see how he played, looks pretty decent in a starstruck team of Rapid with the likes of Panenka and Krankl on their last legs.
Good performance but my God how shit was that Barca team....anyways, a good performance from Johan though same weaknesses appear in every game so hopefully he stops being treated as a superman in drafts. We plan to cover every game from his peak so hopefully we will all be closer to how good he really was.
What are they?
watch the compilations and you will see
This was harms breaking his performance fom one of the games and this pretty much applies for every game we did so far(ok finishing will vary a bit).
I've watched yours - but was interested in an assessement with more background.watch the compilations and you will see
This was harms breaking his performance fom one of the games and this pretty much applies for every game we did so far(ok finishing will vary a bit).
From first watch I'd say passing would be rated too low (era adjusted), while finishing was worse (as you say, it varies each game). I kinda understand the defensive rating, as often his timing seems a bit off & success rate is low, but it's hard to judge outside of full games.
But I'll have to watch it again with your judgement in mind.
this last one? Id say that was his best game passing/defensive wise out of all we made so far. Regarding ratings, its an all-time level so it has to be strict. But yeah, compilations like ours where we show everything help but even those cant replace watching a full game. Take example of this Leeds one. It was probably the best so far when you asses actions outside match scenario but when you add that you will see he sort of went to hidding when team needed him to step up.
Ah okay. Was wondering, as his passing seemed good to me (on 70s standards).
His passing also seemed great to me along with pushing the team forward, but I also stand firmly on overrated scale. His positioning and timing in the defensive phase is more than questionable (questionable on that GOAT scale as he is seen here).
Thinking he would be the kind of player who could disrupt Xavi for example is almost funny to me. Am mentioning Xavi because of that last game between Bepo and Pat. Probably the worst player for Neeskens because of his impulsive defensive reactions and Xavi's abilities.
Thinking he would be the kind of player who could disrupt Xavi for example is almost funny to me. Am mentioning Xavi because of that last game between Bepo and Pat. Probably the worst player for Neeskens because of his impulsive defensive reactions and Xavi's abilities.
Neeskens seems to go to ground more quickly than Bobby Carlos used to do. He certainly puts his foot in but it isn't that successful. Looking at a number of the all-touch compilations it looks like he would be most suited being the furthest forward of a midfield three rather than as B2B player. In a way he reminds me of Steven Gerrard.
Fitting that @harms corrects our impression of him considering he misled us with the midfield 2 of Neeskens-Falcao from a few drafts ago
And how does this affect the current draft plans of @Pat_Mustard 
Belated vindication for this Mustard horror show when I dropped Neeskens Vs your Xaviesta and immediately wondered what the feck I'd done
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the...jim-beam-vs-pat_mustard.458074/#post-26197395
And how does this affect the current draft plans of @Pat_Mustard
Not the best fecking timing to be honest
Belated vindication for this Mustard horror show when I dropped Neeskens Vs your Xaviesta and immediately wondered what the feck I'd done
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the...jim-beam-vs-pat_mustard.458074/#post-26197395
Tbf, I also saw him differently until very recently when I started to wonder whether he was really such an influence all over the pitch.
He is still a fantastic player mind you, but I do feel he needs a better defensive partner behind him and for example I personally think Robson was better all around player and more influential in that b2b role looking at both phases (offensive and defensive) of his game.
Edit: just seen the match thread. He had Dunga there, that is pretty much perfect for him. No vindication!!
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Knew it was familiar to me!!
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/road-trip-draft-ii-qf-jim-beam-vs-harms.450131/
Tbf, that was one hell of a defence though.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/road-trip-draft-ii-qf-jim-beam-vs-harms.450131/
Tbf, that was one hell of a defence though.
I think I haven't posted this one here. Goal and 2 assists in a key qualifier — although he's still a bit hit and miss in terms of his tackling & defensive positioning.
And a bit dedicated to yesterday's game:
And a bit dedicated to yesterday's game:
Yeah good points .I thought the same Gerrard comparison too (although I'd say Gerrard is much more suited to a more defensive gig based on the DM role for England around 2001-2004). I've no issues with a b2b role with Neesken's energy and hustle, but his diving in needs some systematic protection - either from being really compact or from the right holding / defensively aware partners around him.
Was interesting to see Ajax playing with their backs against the wall for once, they won the first leg 2-1, took the lead early in this 2nd leg at Highbury and sort of set up shop at the back, with only Cruyff & Keizer really playing as forwards.
As you can see Neeskens was heavily involved defensively but barely ventured forward as a result. Did get under the skins of the Arsenal players due to his overly physical approach though
Was interesting to see Ajax playing with their backs against the wall for once, they won the first leg 2-1, took the lead early in this 2nd leg at Highbury and sort of set up shop at the back, with only Cruyff & Keizer really playing as forwards.
As you can see Neeskens was heavily involved defensively but barely ventured forward as a result. Did get under the skins of the Arsenal players due to his overly physical approach though
Tasty bit of needle there about half-way through the video, culminating in Ray Kennedy giving a sly tug to Neeskens' blond mop. A lot of solid defensive effort here - rare we see Ajax pinned in like this and useful to see how Neeskens fares where the midfield has less control.
Lothar who? What a player, been quite an eye opening experience watching him play for Fiorentina in the late eighties, mainly whilst watching Baggio
. I've rated him as a player but his 90s version did seem a tad bit boring and predictable. Not the 80s one though.Anyways his insane pressing ability, defensive positioning and astute use of the ball (very adventurous and forward oriented, yet efficient) really stand out. Really tried to emphasize on his closing down and pressing - cutting down the angles for the opposition player, frequently leading to turn overs. Keep in mind that this Inter side would go on to win the Serie A by a whopping 11 points that season, and it boasted the likes of Mätthaus, Matteoli and Berti in midfield, an uber dynamic and an imposing engine room.
If that doesn't convince you, just watch it for Dunga's OTT hilarious reactions, that alone should make it worth your while
From the Netherlands great midfielders i think Cocu deserves more credit. He wasn't as high energy or as much of a goal threat as Neeskens and not as athletic or good defensively as Rijkaard and Davids, but i think his ability to organise the team while on the ball was the strongest (seems often forgotten when talking about exellent passing midfielders of his era) and very versatile.
Its actually insane how good this guy is and how underrated he is, performance wise he is right up there with the very best and most importantly often in a direct match up against the elite. Post peak Gazza for cca 75 minutes produced one of the very best performances you will ever see but after that the tank was empty. But its incredible how intelligent he was football wise, he lost few possessions, realized whats happening and just moved himself on the fringes of the game for 10 minutes to recover.
@Demyanenko_square_jaw probably wont like the performance though
Great work @Šjor Bepo. Safe to say I watched the minute it was uploaded. Lost count of how many times he ghosted past Sammer like he wasn't there. Some lovely examples of that footwork and balance that very few of the great CMs have ever had. Two assists and should have been a third if not for Clelland's shot striking the inside of the post. Shame actually for him that we didn't have depth in quality, especially at the full-back positions and up top. So much fell on his shoulders to create.
Fully agree. He came through in a stacked generation of Dutch central midfielders and outcapped them all. An ever present from Euro 96, World Cup 00, Euro 00 and 04. Find it bizarre how he has almost been forgotten, while others from that era have been celebrated to the hilt.
he is probably my favorite player to watch, on the rare occasion he isnt playing like a boss he is still fun to watch with his gimmicks and the fact that at any time he can have a fight with anyone including himself
and when on form, my God what a fecking genius. Such a rare thing that you get such a maverick playing a box2box role.You guys looked good this game, McCoist was a bit shit up front(no clue how he usually played but given he is pretty famous i expected something) but the midfield was pretty good. Looking forward to the second BVB game and Juve games
First step to answering some questions on Djalma which arose around @Isotope's Christmas Tree draft team. Brazil was a pleasant surprise in several ways in that game, and I'll write a post when I've watched some more for cross checking.
good work and fair play, no chance id be doing anything with this camera angles....
as for Djalma, for me he looks like a perfect RCB in a back three.
Absolutely. Part of the discussion was about roles he could play beyond old school defensive FB, and that one would make perfect use of his abilities, imo.
Lothar who? What a player, been quite an eye opening experience watching him play for Fiorentina in the late eighties, mainly whilst watching Baggio
Anyways his insane pressing ability, defensive positioning and astute use of the ball (very adventurous and forward oriented, yet efficient) really stand out. Really tried to emphasize on his closing down and pressing - cutting down the angles for the opposition player, frequently leading to turn overs. Keep in mind that this Inter side would go on to win the Serie A by a whopping 11 points that season, and it boasted the likes of Mätthaus, Matteoli and Berti in midfield, an uber dynamic and an imposing engine room.
If that doesn't convince you, just watch it for Dunga's OTT hilarious reactions, that alone should make it worth your while
Loved that brief but exceptionally convincing portrayal of sheer, unadulterated exasperation at colleagues from 6:17! Nani-esque ball-juggling at 8:35 and taking quite a few free-kicks with Baggio on the pitch (albeit from distance) were interesting as well. It's weird as Dunga is so unfairly associated with the death of, ironically enough , Joga Bonito, and Keane is synonymous with one of the more cavalier great teams ever, but I find them similar as players.Great stuff. Classic use of his infamous backside for his first goal (and several instances throughout the match). Also, that ball at 1.50, leading to his second goal, was quite exquisite to say the least. Souness looked to have a great game too.
I'm sure all the poor sods who utilised Dalglish as the lone forward in their draft games, would have loved to have acesss to that compilation when they were making their case for it
Forgot to answer before but cheers Joga! If I hadn't been such a lazy bastard and had actually finished it before my match vs Sjor it might have made my life a bit easier
. In general I do have a nagging sense that Dalglish is one of the more under-appreciated players in the draft forum these days. There's obviously obscene levels of competition for the AM/SS striker roles, but he's clearly got a physical, CF dimension to his playing style and has a decent degree of versatility positionally.
Tbf, I also saw him differently until very recently when I started to wonder whether he was really such an influence all over the pitch.
He is still a fantastic player mind you, but I do feel he needs a better defensive partner behind him and for example I personally think Robson was better all around player and more influential in that b2b role looking at both phases (offensive and defensive) of his game.
Edit: just seen the match thread. He had Dunga there, that is pretty much perfect for him. No vindication!!
In fairness I had to include Modric too as there's no doubt that he can compete against the techno-midgets!I think I used the word 'ragged' to describe him before, more in terms of his attacking game, but it seems fair in general. He's hugely influential and can do a bit of everything to a good to great level, but he is the 100 miles an hour type who can also cede possession cheaply and generally be clumsy as feck at times. They're very different as players obviously, but I don't think he was a better or more influential midfielder than Keane, for example. I'm sure I've read before that van Hanegem was generally considered the greater player in the Netherlands, whereas here Neeskens will always be picked and Wim is a bit of an afterthought.
I'd agree in general that he should be paired with a more defensively-astute B2B or a DM, simply because he's clearly best used pressing like feck and forcing mistakes rather than sitting back and trying to anticipate things. As regards the recent critique of him defensively, the only recent video I've watched yet is Joga's vs Arsenal so I can't say much. Only thing I can say about him going to ground too quickly and looking rash with his tackling is that maybe it was partly a product of 1) laxer refereeing standards 2) relative new-ness of that mad pressing style and 3) combination of those first two factors that Neekens was simply trying to disrupt the attacking player so that the guy behind him could actully make the tackle? feck knows, I haven't watched it or analysed it in light of this new debate and I'm a troglodyte anyway so just throwing it out there.
Anyway, I think we can agree Beam that we're both never speaking to @Šjor Bepo again for his poor timing here. I'll find the Croatian traditional music from now on.
Those were my thoughts as well on the comp I watched recently. He often played high in possession and manically counterpressed when Barca lost the ball. So maybe that made sense in a purely disruptive kind of way?
Or maybe he just did that all the time, others here can probably say. And it must be said that even super-aggressive counterpressing can be done with more composure.
Aye, that's where I'm at now. Interested to see how the debate goes. It's a strange one purely as a draft participant - I seem to pick him loads, yet he's clearly not some near-flawless god of a CM.
You're back in Bepo you beautiful bastard!
Zico's wonderful domination of Liverpool in 1981.
Unreal.
Unreal.