Mason Mount | Confirmed

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El Jefe said:
I've seen his posts on Mount and disagree really. The thing with Mount is even Chelsea fans don't agree on what his best or ideal position is.

Personally I'm with you, well hoping we go for Rice or Caicedo instead of Rabiot but we absolutely need that physicality but also need control to go with it.

I saw the post below in the Rice thread and think its useful here too. In the graphic you can see Rice and Caicedo are examples of players you want being deeper as they progress the ball well and efficiently.

Mount doesn't look so good here so again I'd challenge the idea that Mount is better in deeper positions.
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Yeah since he is versatile player, people interpret the positions differently. All I'm saying is, who would have better idea on Mount, the ManUtd fans who probably watch him 10 times a season or Chelsea fan who watches every single min of his game?.

Even I don't rate him highly but I'm also open about the idea that I'm clearly missing something when I watched him as all Chelsea managers played him even when they had lot of options and then you have managers like Klopp, Arteta, EtH who wanted to sign him.

There are lot on convincing posts especially from Chelsea fans but I still have my reservations about him, i have some opinion on him that's bit difficult to change just with some posts but like I said, im sort of sure I'm missing something in his game.

Also regarding the data, looks like it's not accurate going by below post.

TheMagicFoolBus said:
No one is arguing that Mount has been particularly good this season though? Chelsea have obviously been a total trainwreck and yes, Mount's numbers have suffered (and Potter has bizarrely played him at winger at times for some reason).

Also I have no idea where that data is coming from - according to FBref Mount averaged 5.35 progressive passes per 90, which puts him 63rd percentile among midfielders and therefore not really below the median? The previous two years he was 93rd and 90th percentile - again, when he had a settled role in a functional side he was among the best in the league at ball progression.
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The holy trinity 68 said:
Offer them 20m, take it or leave it. They have no bargaining power. He wants to leave, they want him to leave, 1 year left on his contract. If we walk away then they are stuck with him for another year, then we sign him on a free transfer.

It's not like he's amazing and we can't find other players elsewhere. Chelsea are desperate, we shouldn't be doing them any favours.
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They are a stupidly rich club with a new manager coming in who loved the likes of Deli Ali so what’s to say he wants rid? He might want to keep him long enough to actually assess him himself for one..no one needs 20m these days in the PL never mind Chelsea!
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Juan Mata was old and, let's not forget, 3 foot six. Mason is taller than your dad and I bet he could beat him up as well. He also has a knight rider car but it's invisible so if you go to our house it looks like the driveway just has a Skoda Octavia in it.
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Mata was 26 when we signed him, and had won Chelsea player of the year 3 years in a row before we signed him.

Mount will be lucky to reach anywhere near Mata levels when we signed him.
 
So Romano saying Chelsea is going all actions to sign Caicedo, we will give them the money for that :lol: .
 
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Rhyme Animal said:
Weirdest thing about this is that Mount seems like such a Pochettino player, and Utd don’t (seemingly) have any apparent need for a player like Mount…
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I think it is FFP driven and/or there is some really bad blood and broken relationships between Mount and the new ownership/management group at the club.

It doesn't make a lot of sense for Chelsea to sell on pure footballing terms. They struggle to create chances and he has been one of their best chance creators for many years, if not their very best. His work without the ball would be a good fit for the high intensity style of the new manager. And if it was just about the contract, you'd be focused on negotiations as other clubs are doing with players set to expire in 2024 who still haven't signed new deals. United isn't trying to sell Rashford right now, Arsenal is negotiating with Saliba not actively shopping him around, etc.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Mata was 26 when we signed him, and had won Chelsea player of the year 3 years in a row before we signed him.

Mount will be lucky to reach anywhere near Mata levels when we signed him.
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I just looked that up as that seemed ridiculous, but he was actually 25 when we signed him. Holy crap, I'd never have guessed that :lol: For some reason I thought he was 29 or something

Anyway, Mount is only 24 and has also won Chelsea player of the year twice already. He's a very good player.
 
roonster09 said:
Yeah since he is versatile player, people interpret the positions differently. All I'm saying is, who would have better idea on Mount, the ManUtd fans who probably watch him 10 times a season or Chelsea fan who watches every single min of his game?.

Even I don't rate him highly but I'm also open about the idea that I'm clearly missing something when I watched him as all Chelsea managers played him even when they had lot of options and then you have managers like Klopp, Arteta, EtH who wanted to sign him.

There are lot on convincing posts especially from Chelsea fans but I still have my reservations about him, i have some opinion on him that's bit difficult to change just with some posts but like I said, im sort of sure I'm missing something in his game.

Also regarding the data, looks like it's not accurate going by below post.
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To be fair Mount is an extremely divisive player among Chelsea fans too. There are loads who don’t rate him at all and others who think he’s decent who should be no more than a rotational option if we want to be serious about challenging for the title.

If United sign him he’ll probably continue to be divisive and his players thread will probably be one of the most active threads.
 
Bilbo said:
Two keys factors here

1. They don't want to lose him
2. There are plenty of other interested parties

Those two factors mean that you're approach would hold no water. At all

The same fans that are dead against this signing will all be quick to make their views known if we mess it up and he goes to a rival
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The other important factor here is that Mount wants to join us. Why can't we use that to our advantage? Chelsea have no qualms about forcing other clubs hands by convincing other clubs' players to force a move(Fofana, Enzo Fernandez). Why is our approach always panic and throw money at it?
 
WeePat said:
To be fair Mount is an extremely divisive player among Chelsea fans too. There are loads who don’t rate him at all and others who think he’s decent who should be no more than a rotational option if we want to be serious about challenging for the title.

If United sign him he’ll probably continue to be divisive and his players thread will probably be one of the most active threads.
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No midfielder could ever divide our fanbase like Pogba, anyway.
 
Crimson King said:
They can go all the actions they want, doesn't mean they'll get him. Plenty of teams are looking to sign Caicedo.
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Plenty of teams, yes, we should be one of them, not helping Chelsea get him with the money we are giving to them for their mediocre player who has one year left in his contract for 60m.
 
You would've thought we signed Mata when he was 33 with the way he moved around the pitch.
 
Giggsyking said:
Plenty of teams, yes, we should be one of them, not helping Chelsea get him with the money we are giving to them for their mediocre player who has one year left in his contract for 60m.
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We can still be in for him even if we buy Mount
 
El Jefe said:
I've seen his posts on Mount and disagree really. The thing with Mount is even Chelsea fans don't agree on what his best or ideal position is.

Personally I'm with you, well hoping we go for Rice or Caicedo instead of Rabiot but we absolutely need that physicality but also need control to go with it.

I saw the post below in the Rice thread and think its useful here too. In the graphic you can see Rice and Caicedo are examples of players you want being deeper as they progress the ball well and efficiently.

Mount doesn't look so good here so again I'd challenge the idea that Mount is better in deeper positions.
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Is there anyway to generate this chart again including the last two seasons? The defence people make for Mason Mount is that this season Chelsea have been trash and Mount was injured for majority of the season.
 
FrankDrebin said:
You would've thought we signed Mata when he was 33 with the way he moved around the pitch.
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That’s because he stayed for like 9 seasons and he could barely run for like 5 of them :lol:

I loved him though. Those two and half years he spent with us were magical.
 
redIndianDevil said:
Mount is another player like that, albeit less creative and more workaholic. We had the same confusion whether to play him deep or in advanced position.
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I think the Pogba division had about 3% to do with his best position on the pitch tbf
 
zaafi said:
We can still be in for him even if we buy Mount
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Yep, if it's enough of a priority.

And equally if ETH doesn't want that deeper lying Caicedo-style player at all, not going for Mount wouldn't make a difference. We'd just be going for some other #10/#8 hybrid type player anyway.

It's not like we're at any point choosing Mount over Caicedo.
 
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Giggsyking said:
Plenty of teams, yes, we should be one of them, not helping Chelsea get him with the money we are giving to them for their mediocre player who has one year left in his contract for 60m.
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We haven't actually signed him yet. Maybe wait until that actually happens before getting so upset about it.

And we probably are one of those teams, we actually came close to signing him before he went to Brighton. At this point he'll probably cost at least double whatever we're hoping to buy Mount for.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I’ve linked several articles as additional evidence that he can and has done this.

The difference is with Eriksen and Casemiro in the starting XI he doesn’t need to do it even though he can and absolutely has. So it’s not his primary role but it absolutely could be and he’d be excellent at it. He’s just even better further up too.

To suggest otherwise at this point is to deny fact and be delusional for the sake of a minor point.
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He's been played next to casemiro before, but it's not something he does out of choice. When in that advanced position he avoids doing that, he doesn't want to drop deep.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
@Hammondo pick any of these as additional proof he can and has done it.

https://theathletic.com/4394253/202...r-united-midfield/?source=user_shared_article

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/exp...ition-deep-lying-midfield/blt0fcb477304765dbf

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...g-in-a-deeper-role-and-responding-to-setbacks

https://strettynews.com/2023/04/09/...no-fernandes-in-deep-lying-midfield-role/amp/

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c.../man-united-bruno-fernandes-news-26659646.amp

And finally from Ten Hag himself on film 4:15 onwards
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I wasn't trying to suggest he cannot possibly do it, I am saying when he's the attacking mid, he just doesn't. He's the most reluctant AM to drop deeper, we simply do not have 3 players in midfield.
 
roonster09 said:
There are few who said Eriksen was signed as Bruno back up and for 10 position, he played almost all games as CM.
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To be fair, at the time we were still chasing De Jong which would have severely limited Eriksen's minutes.

And the point regarding Eriksen last summer wasn't that he couldn't play CM, it's that it's unlikely you can convert a player who has played his whole career as an attacking player into an elite deep lying midfielder. The fact we're looking to replace Eriksen's place in the team suggests that was correct, Eriksen did a decent job as a short term option but was never the solution.
 
Giggsyking said:
So Romano saying Chelsea is going all actions to sign Caicedo, we will give them the money for that :lol: .
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tenpoless said:
This video shed some light. Thanks tourist charging pub guide guy.
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The guy whose constantly on podcast with rio, on good terms and respected.

Ah I see you’re upset about a Mancunian offering a tour around old trafford.

I forgot the part when he took a machine gun and held it to the tourist head, stealing their passports and laughing about his British privilege.

Oh yeah that didn’t happen.
 
Hammondo said:
He's been played next to casemiro before, but it's not something he does out of choice. When in that advanced position he avoids doing that, he doesn't want to drop deep.
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Hammondo said:
I wasn't trying to suggest he cannot possibly do it, I am saying when he's the attacking mid, he just doesn't. He's the most reluctant AM to drop deeper, we simply do not have 3 players in midfield.
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It’s a tactical choice by Ten Hag to pin the CBs by having Bruno play up high.

Bruno has always still found space deeper when required.

I see what you mean now though and can understand why youd misinterpret that.
 
TheRedHearted said:
I forgot the part when he took a machine gun and held it to the tourist head, stealing their passports and laughing about his British privilege.

Oh yeah that didn’t happen.
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...what the feck are you on about?!
 
golden_blunder said:
Where do people think we’re going to get as good for 20m?
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Martin Baturina is equally versatile (if not more so), and will not cost more than €20 million (and will probably be chuffed with wages of £75,000 per week, as that figure is considerably higher than his current wages). Folk will point and laugh at the suggestion that he is almost as good as Mount right now or will realistically attain a higher level in the near future (probably a fair argument as he has only played in the HNL, is a relative nobody in the grand scheme of things and hasn't even made his debut for the Croatian national team...for all we know, he could crash and burn), but Joško Gvardiol (to cite one example) became an €80 million rated player after only a year and a half of leaving the very same club and very same league for €16 million (to provide a frame of reference, we had recently acquired Harry Maguire (a more experienced and battle-ready player) for £80 million). And Baturina is not the only talented and versatile midfielder out there, either.

There's just no need to overcompensate (and overpay for) someone who is not a top, top player (and is not expected to develop into a top, top player), when a smaller investment will suffice — employing the former approach is precisely how a club ends up in a situation where it has one of the highest wage bills in world football but not the highest performance levels on the pitch or where it cannot afford to meaningfully reinforce the team in the winter window. Unless we're being bankrolled by a philanthropic multi-billionaire, spending £50 million on Mount (upwards of £70 million if Chelsea get their way?) and then handing him a £300,000 per week contract represents fairly poor value for money when there's no dearth of playmaking options in the mercato (if we look hard enough and cast a wide enough net). Lessons need to be learned from our past misadventures and follies, and we need to be smarter with our dealings.

In saying that, if Mount joins United, I sincerely hope he proves me (and other detractors) wrong and cements himself as one of the best performers in the team; United bossing it would be infinitely more gratifying than being “proven right”. :)
 
Seems majority of the Caf are against signing him which probably means he’ll turn out to be an excellent signing for us! I jest.

I wouldn’t mind signing him but the prices Chelsea are supposedly holding out for are insane.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
It’s a tactical choice by Ten Hag to pin the CBs by having Bruno play up high.

Bruno has always still found space deeper when required.

I see what you mean now though and can understand why youd misinterpret that.
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But he's done that for every manager he's played for. It's a really uncommon tactic.
 
TheRedHearted said:
Tenpoles referred to him as a pub tour guide, he did say the video was insightful but I was just joking because I’ve heard that part about his past used to discredit his videos.

He’s very good
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I was just very confused about the made up scenario :lol: :)
 
Hammondo said:
But he's done that for every manager he's played for. It's a really uncommon tactic.
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I can’t speak on behalf of all other sides but I know that under Ten Hag when Eriksen and Casemiro are fit Bruno is instructed to pin the CB or exploit half spaces. It’s a common Ten Hag tactic and something I think he’s going to try to do even more with the introduction of Mason Mount.

I dont think we’re going to sign a traditional controlling midfielder I think we’re going to give Martinez space to build up by moving Mount and Bruno up and deeper into opponents halves.

In that context Mount and Bruno work fine as players who will track back when needed and who can operate deeper be it through a progressive pass (Bruno) or carry (Mount)
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
It isn't really. You are again getting hung up on names on a teamsheet instead of looking at how a player is utilised and deployed throughout the match. As I said before, out of possession Mount was almost always part of a midfield 3 - and usually Kante was pressing high, so Mount sat deeper next to Jorginho.
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I'm not hung up on names, I'm hung up on the qualities players have and whether they complement each other, as well as the positions on the field they do most of their work. To suggest there's no difference between Mount partnering Kante/Kovacic and partnering a pure attacking midfielder like Bruno is just crazy.

Sofascore won't let me link specific games but if we find the ties and click average positions for those CL knockout games, we find Mount was far more advanced than his midfield partners, playing an AM/wing hybrid role. Absolutely nothing like the role we'll be asking him to play at United.

https://www.sofascore.com/tournament/football/europe/uefa-champions-league/7
 
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