Foden is a more complete player, but then again we don’t know much about where Greenwood would be today if not for missing the 18 months. Being surrounded by much better players is also a massive factor in how a player develops.
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic | Factual updates only
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are joined by special guest Anders (@Lyng) to celebrate the news that ETH is staying put! They also talk about the Euros so far, with special attention on England, Scotland and Denmark. They then finish with some transfer talk and the potential comings and outgoings at Old Trafford.
Teach me. Are you claiming that if an assault (violence or rape) occurs with objective evidence through surveillance and/or forensic examinations, that the key witness alone determines whether the case proceeds? Come on. If the evidence had been as clear as some claim due to an audio recording, which may be a snippet of a longer video, the case would have continued. It's about whether the evidence is deemed sufficient, and if it's not, the police won't pursue the case. Just like in Greenwood's case. Therefore, my argument is, if the police don't deem him guilty based on their evidence, how can we claim he's guilty with the same or perhaps even less insight in the evidence?
Is that really a criticism though? To say someone is not as good as someone whom Guardiola regards as the best in the league is not a slight on Greenwood's ability, at all. It just means a player who is not the finished article yet is not as good as a world class player.
Hypothetically, Greenwood, in his position, is probably going to walk into most Premier League teams based purely on his ability. Even City would probably prefer a baggage-free Greenwood over Doku today, who was disappointing. This is talking hypothetically, without what has happened.
Let's not mince words: as and when Greenwood goes, United will be losing one of their three best players. That is a sad but undeniable fact.
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Not married. Why do people in this thread keep marrying him off?
Probably because they once posted a photo of themselves holding hands on instagram. That and having a child now, so people just putting 2+2.
I actually had to check again because if they did get married, its not like there would be a grand wedding. One of those has it happened yet things.
Abuse manifests in different ways. What you described was physical and verbal abuse.
I don’t think so. They are businessmen. They care about protecting his value as an asset of the club. Nothing more.
They are evaluating the situation, not making a decision to bring him back yet.
Id say its PR, legitimizing their reasoning of "if she's forgiven him, who am I to hold a grudge?", with a dash of "whatever happens between a man and his wife is their business" in the hopes that the rest of us can embrace a life of wilful ignorance.
It’s clear to me that many in this thread don’t see domestic abuse and sexual violence as that big of a deal.
The married error is a bit annoying but actually makes little difference to the general points being made since they are living together with a child
It makes a difference geographically. Some posters reside in countries where marital rape is not a crime.
At least some people are letting the mask slip and admitting they only give a shit because he's good at football.
Really hard to tell given the past two seasons and their respective teams, managers and (most importantly), teammates.
Foden plays in a settled team with a very good manager, clear tactics, loads of the ball, surrounded by good players, receives better passes in better situations, etc.
Greenwood isn’t.
You can use this rethoric to try and level every player. Not saying that what you are saying isn't true, but Greenwood offered very little if he wasn't scoring. Could hold up the ball well, and bring others into play but nowhere near the playmaked, tempo dictater that Foden is.
Now that Foden is as dangerous around the box as he was at his best, it is quite a no-brainer.
Hadnt actually considered that - I think most realise they werent married when all this blew up though, some assume 'married' because they now have a child and living together in Spain.
The fact is that she (and more importantly for me, her family) accepted the verdict of the club's internal investigation that he is innocent.
Sir Jim said he wants to look at the facts of the internal investigation before making any decision. We know that the club are already speaking to the Greenwood family and I would hope they will also speak to her family again to understand what they want to happen.
Oh, I don't know if that is a fact quite as much as it's an assumption on your part. It is quite a complex situation and you don't have the data to declare facts.
This thread just shows how pathetically desperate we’ve become to supplement our poor quality squad with a player who should never set foot at this club again. I know for a fact that innocence in the eyes of the law means just that and nothing more. It doesn’t take away the abuse that we’ve all heard and seen even if the legal system disregards the evidence.
These are the facts according to official statements, up to you if you choose to believe them or not but if this statement isnt true then the family has every opportunity via the club, police, media etc to challenge it.
"The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings."
As I said, I hope INEOS will follow up with her and her family to ask them what they want to happen at this point.
What’s clear to me from this board is that the level of opposition to his return has not dissipated with time, as a few people predicted/hoped. My guess is that SJR will be aware of this, and will seek to make his first summer as Utd boss as positive and as consensus driven as possible. So a line will be drawn and he’ll be sold. Which would absolutely be the right decision.
That is not them accepting his innocence as fact. That is them accepting the facts of the investigation. Which we haven't been privy to. An investigation said he didn't commit the alleged crimes, but in a way that left a massive cloud over what did happen. Just to remind you that it said "did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged. That said, as Mason publicly acknowledges today, he has made mistakes'. Innocence isn't mentioned and you'd be the first to point that out if someone else used it and you didn't agree. Your continued agenda in his almost admirable in it's commitment to scrutinise one side and mitigate the other from your laughable position of self declared objectivity.
Was there ever a denial of this? This is one of the foremost reason why lenient view is considered. If he was shite nobody would give a flying f about him. Even SAF tolerated different difficult characters to some extent due to their quality and what they bought to the team (Eric, Keane etc.).
Yeah but 'difficult characters' is someone like Zlatan, Pogba, etc.. not an abuser who has threatened to rape someone.
Are you are really comparing Eric & Keane's strong personalities and on-field discipline issues to what Mason Greenwood did?
It's our board who has pushed us to this circumstances due to their incompetence. If we are well stacked with quality in the attacking line, I'm sure this Greenwood thread wouldn't have this many pages. He can feck off for all I care.
BUT the reality is our forward lines are playing horribly right now and we desperately need a young forward like him. Injury to Højlund and our form dipped immediately.
If he was bad at football, he wouldn't have had so many supporters - that's objectively true.
Also it's true that if any of this was happening around City player, nobody would have cared. The fact that he is United player makes bringing him back the worst possible decision. Journalists will start clickbaiting and ranting. Sponsors will step away.
Just imagine if United had for example 130 charges for breaching ffp rules. Journos would have been puking out articles every other day.
I think 80 to 90% of international fanbase wants Greenwood back. HOWEVER, I believe the english fanbase doesn't want him back. Out of the 6 english lads I know, 5 are against Greenwood.
Actually no point in all this. The discussion will last forever. When we sell him and he smashes it at a spanish big club or something, people will keep coming back here every time we struggle for goals.
Maybe the best (even a little antidemocratic) decisions would be to call quits on all discussions about Greenwood until the situation is resolved and lock the thread.
Also it's true that if any of this was happening around City player, nobody would have cared. The fact that he is United player makes bringing him back the worst possible decision. Journalists will start clickbaiting and ranting. Sponsors will step away.
Just imagine if United had for example 130 charges for breaching ffp rules. Journos would have been puking out articles every other day.
I think 80 to 90% of international fanbase wants Greenwood back. HOWEVER, I believe the english fanbase doesn't want him back. Out of the 6 english lads I know, 5 are against Greenwood.
Actually no point in all this. The discussion will last forever. When we sell him and he smashes it at a spanish big club or something, people will keep coming back here every time we struggle for goals.
Maybe the best (even a little antidemocratic) decisions would be to call quits on all discussions about Greenwood until the situation is resolved and lock the thread.
Not saying he's having a standout season, but he's having a solid season nonetheless.
It is not the same. And it will never be the same. But also across the world what is considered normal is not the same. I'm not condoning what Greenwood did. I don't find it acceptable behavior or norm. But also don't think it should kill him and his career. Second chance, last warning. One more and you are finished. And take it from there.
But it hasn’t killed him or his career. He's playing football and earning a lot of money doing so.
I just don’t get how people think him no longer playing for United is equal to him not receiving a second chance. He’s received it.
Same as I don't get it why he shouldn't receive a second chance here at United. Because of public pressure?
Jesus here we are with yet another newbie rehashing the same tired argument yet again
Because no one deserves a second chance, especially at Utd.
We are at the peak of World Football and we don't allow for that.
Seems like semantics to me but if it makes a difference to you then Id be happy to revise my statement to:
"The fact is that she (and more importantly for me, her family) accepted the verdict of the club's internal investigation that he did not commit the crimes he was charged with."
Happy with that?
Considering the evidence against Greenwood prior to their reconciliation, I'd say not.
It's important we learn why. Otherwise, she is dismissing it only to continue their aforementioned reconciliation. Crucially, this is not evidence of innocence.
We still have a player who has committed violent actions upon females, and, for 'football reasons' included, we should not accept such a person at our club.
Its hard to dismiss it as semantics when you do it at every opportunity.
It's less misleading that way alright. I still think the club statement that leaves a huge elephant in the room. Almost like they couldn't fully exonerate him.
And the family's acceptance is again an assumption. We have no idea what conversations were had or promises that were made.
Yeh I think it's very hard to take, or trust, anything the families say seriously, when the day after (I think?) it all came out her father came along in support of MG straight away, which we all found very odd because very few fathers of an alleged victim would ever do something like that. But I think it's fairly obvious why when you think about it.
I'd hesitate to speculate because there are so many possibilities. If she was adamant she was staying he'd almost have to support her publicly. So complicated.
Yeh that's true alright I guess.
I think the problem is it's not. Which makes it worse to a degree.
Greenwood, much like Rashford, is another player who pretty much more only can play on the counter. And he doesn't press. Garnacho looks to be the same type of player as winger as well, unfortunately.
Hope we can get something for him. We desperately need wingers who retain possession, press and defend. And we have none of them. Antony comes the closest, which is quite sad, really.
Hope we can get something for him. We desperately need wingers who retain possession, press and defend. And we have none of them. Antony comes the closest, which is quite sad, really.
I think it's a pretty safe assumption at this point, but like I said I hope INEOS will speak to the family again to understand their point of view and what they want to happen going forward.
But I totally agree that the club statement is not good, they took far too long to say anything and should have given a lot more details about the internal investigation (further details have been reported but many people have not seen them). No coincidence that Arnold personally put his name to it and is no longer in a job.
Still, unless you believe the club are just lying through their teeth, then some details are clear enough.