Fair post and it took me a while to get your point, but that's on me.
Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
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Although the club could clearly have handled this entire episode better, Im struggling to understand what exactly the likes of Rachel Riley want at this point - they are already letting Greenwood go, despite internal investigation showing he's not commited any crime.
If that's not enough, then what is?!
Riley had the platform and GUTS to speak out as a UNITED FAN like many of us who had the same feelings , unlike the other pundits like Neville that has come out with ''the right decision'' AFTER the statement he was leaving.... the type of people who are getting mad at her on here rather than the people behind this mess justity we have the worst social media fanbase in the world.
Rachel Riley said she was a "United fan, since before she was born". I thought she was a mathematician? They deal in numbers, statistics and logic.
I’ve already stated my views on Crafton/The Athletic but in the very post you quote I say I’m perfectly fine with this reaction if it be dealt out evenly in other instances. Never in the history of football has a club been manipulated to deal with a player in this way & that is my issue.
Using Reddit/forums then upscaling the extreme takes, both ways, on them to an entire fanbase tells us nothing about how sizeable support is in either direction. Again, if you’ve read my posts as you claim, you’ll have seen me acknowledge that there has been a constant demand to discuss by people on these mediums, I simply don’t think these voices are a representation of either side in any meaningful number. More United fans don’t use internet forums & Reddit than do, if we took Redcafe as the authority on United Marcus Rashford would be playing elsewhere & Saint-Maxim would be our LW.
As for United being treated differently due to size & exposure, that’s the problem. United are the only part of this whole thing that stand to lose anything. MG has the pick of the rest of the football world bar 1 club, the football world who seem not to care half as much as people on here do because they never have done have a run at one of football’s premier talents at a cut price & United get what exactly? To say we did the ‘right’ thing whilst football has never been about doing so before & will not be again in the future. We’re continually told by rival fans & journalists how not special we are, how we’re just another club, so ask yourself what’s changed here.
Comparing Arnautovic to Greenwood is a case of Apples to Oranges.
For the bolded part.
Online you find the extremes, fanatics who sit one way or the next on things generally at polar opposites. Those people sign up to forums/reddit & spend countless hours debating away about things they generally have little influence over. Like us lot on here.
You then have the true majority who sit in the middle & rarely if ever have their voices heard. They go to/watch games to be entertained, they don’t take to protests en masse or spend hours online debating things, they use it as an escape.
We’ve become the only football club in history to impose sanctions on itself in a free market, reminds me of something else daft from around 2016.
Ref the bolded part. From what I remember the pictures appeared online, as if she was hacked/someone whistleblew. I keep reading people saying she did this but I always thought it was someone who had access & had had enough.
Makes little difference but she didn’t start this has always been how I’ve seen it, so any negative comments towards her are even more callous.
He’s continuing to milk it because it’s a hit job.
This has happened a lot on this forum.
Personally I’ve acknowledged MG’s transgressions multiple times but because I don’t think condemning him to the exit was the best solution multiple posters have pretended I have ok’d the actions. Not just happened to me either.
If you witness abuse, never remain silent. After reviewing the pictures with bruises, video of her bleeding, and audio evidence she presented, I am convinced that he is indeed abusive. The extent of the abuse might be unclear, but I wholeheartedly believe her initial account and response. Having grown up in an abusive household characterized by violence and turmoil, I can personally relate to this situation. My mother defended her abuser to both our family and the authorities. She even reported him to the police at one point, only to later recant her statement. You think he was prosecuted when she did that? It's worth noting that my mother continued to have children with him during the abuse, she eventually gathered enough courage to leave but that was years later.
It is more plausible that the girl recanted her story and chose to defend him, a pattern frequently observed among abused women. This seems more probable than the assumption that every single picture, video, and audio has been fabricated and deliberately misrepresented. Because of this the authorities are unable to proceed with prosecution since the sole witness has now recanted, asserting that no wrongdoing took place and the club can confidently assert his innocence based on this development.
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You do realize their daughter is an adult and her parents have no power to "allow" her to do or not do anything
The clubs best course of action would be to respond to any questions on this with "the matter is closed and we are now focussing on the football"
Take control and draw a line under it.
Take control and draw a line under it.
That's a pretty interesting theory actually, it would fit in with the statement the club made as well.
There was never any winning for the club. That's the exact problem with bowing to the outcry. Nothing the club does will ever be enough for a certain crowd who are an extremely vocal minority. What should have happened was they should have taken the best course of action for the football team- be that him staying or leaving. They clearly haven't done that however, because they by all accounts were planning on reintegrating him into the squad.
To enhance her profile present herself as a leading light on women's right. In other words self indulgence.
Carl Anka stole a march on that media play.
Good post.
Bolded part is pretty much what I’ve been pointing at since the story broke. Being a Manchester United supporter shouldn’t make this story more of an issue for people but countless posters have admitted as much.
The question is. If people don’t want MG to play for United because of what he did [which is a fair position to have], why are they okay with him playing at all? We’re all a part of the football community, no?
The media will lose steam once the next story comes out & he’ll be allowed to move on with little fanfare. The big story has broke, they’ll be looking for the next one now.
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Dude she's the personification of the selective outrage going around. I'm happy she's using her platform and guts to speak out. She could've also used her platform to speak out against Ronaldo. At the very least she could've refrained from doing his goal celebrations and tweeting that not wetting herself when she found herself in a bar with him is probably her greatest achievement.
This whole debacle is down to the front office not understanding the UK. In American football they would unilaterally make a decision and say he is innocent trust us and he is back in the side and American football fans in the States will for the most part go “alright that’s a few extra wins”. However, they fail to realize supporters want and have more of a voice in the UK and they once again failed to listen to that voice until after word leaked he was coming back. Just my thought from the States.
Then they panicked changed course but assured us he is innocent to try and save some value in the transfer market.
In these situations the clubs need to take a strong stance, either he is innocent here is why, and he has our backing, or say we have no faith in the player and he is gone, then reach a deal to terminate his contract. The front office chose the middle which just opens them to criticism from all sides.
Then they panicked changed course but assured us he is innocent to try and save some value in the transfer market.
In these situations the clubs need to take a strong stance, either he is innocent here is why, and he has our backing, or say we have no faith in the player and he is gone, then reach a deal to terminate his contract. The front office chose the middle which just opens them to criticism from all sides.
The club should fire Arnold, just for the silly "open letter". What does the following mean?
"While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with".
Greenwood said terrible things, they are on tape, we have heard them... what does it mean "he did not commit the acts"? Arnold should have terminated Greenwood's contract (paid him in full and released him) just for the things Greenwood said in that tape. Arnold should have done this long time ago. If he has evidence that it wasn't Greenwood who said those things, if it was a case of "deep fake" or something else, then he should tell us about it.
As it is, I simply do not believe Arnold. In my opinion, he is just a spineless accountant who is still trying to make money, he is trying to exonerate Greenwood in order to sell him for a few million. The club should just pay Greenwood the rest of his contract and release him. It is that simple. There is no other solution. We cannot make money off Greenwood, we lost, it's over. Trying to spin this and trying to make money in this situation, just makes us bigger losers.
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They think MG did nothing wrong and Rachel Riley is a woman, draw your own conclusions on that one
Don’t mention this you’ll have the user Berbaclass frothing at the mouth to tell you Carl is a pompous wanker for even mentioning donating to women’s charities.
Has anyone asked Arnold if the girlfriend gave herself a bloody lip?
Sums it up perfectly.
That’s the issue when people idolise false prophets.
Surely, but nothing close to beat a partner, and threat her with a possible rape scenario.
Such a "mistake"
Laughable people trying to deconstruct the form of Arnold's letter or deriving moral precepts from 'what definitely happened' without it ever passing their minds that the evidence they're basing these arguments on has been discredited by...everyone who knows more than them. I.e. not some other poster, not me, not some journalist even but...the CPS; the club that spent months trying to work out exactly what might have happened in order that they couldn't be deemed negligent or held culpable if new evidence suddenly emerged or another incident happened after they'd decided to retain MG's registration and make him available for selection etc; the accusers family.
I'm quite open to the possibility new facts may emerge at some point to indicate he was guilty of some or all of the charge, but that doesn't make the foundations of anyone's claims here based on the actual 'facts' as they stand. It's not a virtuous position to be casually myopic - no-one here can claim to have a proper lens by which to view that previous evidence and come to any judgement... and all this recourse to 'common sense' and 'claims are bullshit' and 'people are just defending him, they've got no backbone' is just an exercise in revelling in dumbness and reaction by people who, in some cases at least, should probably know better.
I'm quite open to the possibility new facts may emerge at some point to indicate he was guilty of some or all of the charge, but that doesn't make the foundations of anyone's claims here based on the actual 'facts' as they stand. It's not a virtuous position to be casually myopic - no-one here can claim to have a proper lens by which to view that previous evidence and come to any judgement... and all this recourse to 'common sense' and 'claims are bullshit' and 'people are just defending him, they've got no backbone' is just an exercise in revelling in dumbness and reaction by people who, in some cases at least, should probably know better.
Definitely? He wasn't getting into the team before he beat his girlfriend who says he's going to come back at the same level after all this time off?
I could definitely see role-play as a possible explanation when it happened, albeit an unlikely one
but if they had a seemingly innocent explanation how did it even get this far? Why wouldn't one of them come out and explain it now that the criminal investigation is over? It makes no sense for it to the role-play at this point
but if they had a seemingly innocent explanation how did it even get this far? Why wouldn't one of them come out and explain it now that the criminal investigation is over? It makes no sense for it to the role-play at this point
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Fuxking hell, people making out SAF wouldn’t have accepted it
He’d have used it as the biggest “us against them” imaginable, no chance in the World he’d have allowed the press and pressure to lose him a top player and goalscorer, he’d have got 99% of fans onside with a everyone versus us mentality.
No chance in the world 99% of fans would stand behind a [person charged with sexual offences] and [alleged] woman beater no matter who Alex Ferguson is or was, what are you smoking?
Scouse level of delusion here, reminds me of the Suarez and Evra incident but a lot more tragic and embarrassing for the people backing a bloke because he's good at football.
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Exactly. The accuser would have come out very, very early on, or at the very least gone to the press. The fact she hasn't speaks volumes.
That statement really is confusing. He didn’t commit the crimes he was accused of, we’ve found him innocent of that…but we’re sacking him anyway? Surely if he didn’t do any of it then you keep him? You sack him if he did commit the crimes? This clubs ability to lurch from one disaster to another really is unparalleled.
why didn't she come out with these same statements and disgust when Bissouma got arrested and accused of assault??
That's fair enough, but they must then also accept he's going to remain guilty of those original charges in the eyes of the public and so he'll find it difficult getting work in this country and probably many others.
I guess we'll have to see what clubs are willing to take the criticism of taking him on, and whether that country is a good place for them to live.
At this stage it's conceivable that he doesn't get a new club, as time passes it'll get harder and harder. If he's guilty then he's got off lightly, if he's innocent (not just not guilty) and if it's important to his family for him to have a football career, then they've got to think about presenting something convincing to the public jury.
Because she’s not a Brighton supporter?
She was trying to get them to drop the charges in April of 2022, and it still went on for 9 more months. If the longer recording offered some kind of context in which Mason's words to her were acceptable, if they had a believable alternate explanation or even evidence of his innocence, then surely they would have handed that over then, and the charges would be dropped in short order.
Arnold mentions the longer recording in his open letter, but doesn't give it as a reason. "They offered an alternative explanation for the words spoken, and also the full recording was longer". Okay and what did the longer recording tell him? I'm guessing absolutely nothing, because otherwise he would have stated it plainly. No, the longer recording was mentioned because he knew a lot of people would assume that it must offer some mitigating, or even exonerating, context.
I get the criticism, but United made the right call in the end. Process was not ideal but it's not like Greenwood was playing in the interim. We don't have the facts and the case seems odd and definitely not black or white.
Neville, Riley and all the rest don't have all the facts. Did they want the club to publicly condemn Greenwood? Are they not playing judge, jury and executioner with their statements? Their criticism doesn't help at all.
It's so infuriating how any bit of news related to us is like open-season to criticise the club and ownership.
What is the track record for rape, assault and treatment of women in the countries that own City and Newcastle? Will Neville and Riley distance themselves from the club if we're bought by Qatar? Why isn't that highlighted more? Oh no, carry on, don't talk about that.
I know it's unrelated, but still.
Neville, Riley and all the rest don't have all the facts. Did they want the club to publicly condemn Greenwood? Are they not playing judge, jury and executioner with their statements? Their criticism doesn't help at all.
It's so infuriating how any bit of news related to us is like open-season to criticise the club and ownership.
What is the track record for rape, assault and treatment of women in the countries that own City and Newcastle? Will Neville and Riley distance themselves from the club if we're bought by Qatar? Why isn't that highlighted more? Oh no, carry on, don't talk about that.
I know it's unrelated, but still.
I think it’s clear that the club wanted to bring Greenwood back but bowed to the outside pressure. My instinct is to rip the club for that, but the people making the decision always had to decide what is in the best interest of the club. That’s the bottom line decision here. And deciding that the backlash from reinstating Greenwood would be too damaging to the club is understandable. I will save my ire for those who have shrieked that the only right and moral choice was to kick Greenwood out of the club. What they’re saying is that Mason Greenwood is irredeemable. As if they have all the information to make that decision. They've succeeded in branding him as an abuser for life and probably effectively ending his career.
There’s been talk on The Athletic about the club owing a duty of care to the supporters as well as Greenwood. Please. United deciding that Greenwood cannot be a United player will deeply impact and maybe end his ability to play football at the highest level. This is a young man with a new child, who has been at the club since he was a small child himself. No degree of upset felt by any fan of the club means a damn thing in comparison.
Why are Crafton stories taken as Gospel? The club released a statement explaining the process they undertook considering all options and it makes sense. Why is Crafton more believable than the club?
I believe you're the 4th difference person I ask this, could you please dm me the evidence against our player? People keep repeating this but I'm yet to see it. And I'm asking genuinely, I want to make my mind about him but can't find this evidence online.
Because he’s been briefed by those people and they know more than an Arnold. He’ll have ‘sources’ a usual, It’s typical media stuff and he’s certainly milking it for all it’s worth.
What a shite show for the manager and the players, all over every back page. Should have been dealt with a month ago at least. Every man and his dog is now piling in on the club.
Even after Greenwood is gone, he’ll always be referred to as ex Manchester United player by the media as it generates clicks.
who gives a shit about what club she supports....she's a woman and using the club as the reason to speak out only proves the point that this kid has been tried and convicted by the public simply b/c he plays for United and he's English
Leave SAF out of this. To think he'd side with a women beater is belittling the man. He has his integrity
Rachel Riley gives a shit about what club Rachel Riley supports. She's not going to say that she'll stop supporting Brighton, because she doesn't support Brighton. This shouldn't be complicated, even for you.
It’s weird. The people who were adamant that Greenwood needs to go regardless of any club investigation that seemingly is unimportant, got the outcome they wanted but are still whining that it isn’t enough. Because apparently United is a random twitter account that makes it’s mind up based on whims and fancies.
I do agree that it’s a bizarre statement - but not because it empowers abusers or some bullshit like that. The decision is strong enough a signal against that, as is the rest of the statements. It’s bizarre because going purely by it, it seems Greenwood should not have been let go but was due to media pressure. If anything her still criticising them despite the decision shows exactly why they came to this incoherent conclusion.
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